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Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? - Family (11) - Nairaland

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Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by Lotechi(m): 7:33am On Feb 23
WoundedLamb:
An African friend always argue that kids are better of raised in Africa. He said he'd send his two boys to Nigeria so they'd know what life is all about. I asked him "what life is all about", he said hardship, blackouts, etc. He said kids raised in the Americas aren't respectful and organized cause they didn't suffer. And that brings me to the topic of this thread. Is the Nigerian style of raising kids really the ideal model? I just want to share my opinion on the things my friend mentioned as reasons to send his boys to Africa: respectful and organized and the need to "suffer small" (his words).

Respectful: In the Nigerian society, elders don't usually explain to kids why they shouldn't do some things; they just authoritatively ask them not to do it and the kids better not ask why. Kids grow up respecting thier elders out of fear (and not admiration or love). The implication of this is that they do a lot things without their patents' knowledge, and they get used to this "hidden lifestyle" that makes it almost impossible for parents to truly know thier children. This in turn denies the parents the opportunity to identify and correct some unwanted behaviours as the kids always tell them just what they want to hear. And then it's only a matter of time before some of these kids outgrow the fear and reveal their true personalities (good luck with your mystery parcel at this point). Whereas in the Americas, kids are engaged and not commanded. You can easily tell the direction your child is headed.

Organized: He said kids raised in Africa are more organized and not crazy like their American counterparts who do all sorts of things like tattoos, plastic surgery, etc. Yes, Americans have a lot of deviants, but that's why new ideas/findings pop up everyday. I believe Africans force thier youngsters to fit into a predefined pattern of life and thereby reducing the chances of creativity. In Africa, you are supposed to go to school, get a job, get married and make children (and there are ages for all these). Then your children will do the same and the cycle continues. This "organised" pattern is the African dream; it is more important than any other dream or even the world itself, and any deviation is frowned upon. Africans think it's a crazy for a man to dedicate his life to studying mosquitoes even if that's his dream (yet Africans are the most affected by these killer insects), Africans think it's crazy for a woman to say she ain't getting married but would rather use her money to adopt and raise orphaned kids. A friend I was teaching software development had to quit cause "he didn't have time anymore". According to him, he had gotten to the age of marriage. And you wonder why nothing spectacular comes out of this continent? Alternative lifestyles might be scary but that's the wheel of progress.

"Suffer small": This one makes me laugh and I usually use it to tease my friend. Kids don't need to suffer small. Kids need the skills that would make them survive in their environment. If carrying water, fighting for a bus, using candles and going to the farm equip the child for the African life, great (just don't overdo it). But that's not necessarily a model. It's something they do out of necessity. A kid who is born in North America does not need to go to Africa to "suffer small". I don't even own a bucket as an adult and I'll probably never buy one. A kid born here needs DIY skills amongst others.

I don't have a problem with some people wanting their kids to go to Africa to learn thier culture but I don't subscribe to the idea that kids raised in Africa are better off. What do you think?
As someone who lives in the U.S, if you want your child to go far in life, the West is the best place to raise them.

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Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by angelfallz(m): 7:52am On Feb 23
crackhaus:

I myself have experienced how hard they struggle to pronounce my surname, but I thoroughly enjoy watching/listening to them trying.

They must learn it by force, I nor dey change am.

If they can pronounce "schwarzenegger" they can pronounce your surname.
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by angelfallz(m): 7:53am On Feb 23
crackhaus:

People tend to forget that a lot of the laws in these countries were handpicked and fine-tuned from biblical laws.

Humans on our own, left to our own predilections, and without a higher authority to fear/succumb to, will actually behave like animals without restraint.

That's a fact.

Gbam!
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by angelfallz(m): 7:57am On Feb 23
Error!!
Error!!
Error!!!
Wrong!!!
Wrong!!!
Wrong!!!
theFilmtric:

its all the question of official language
Assuming Nigeria was a 2,3,4 language country
It would be the same
Nigeria is just too diverse
That causes us to lean too heavily on English
Those I cancelled have their language as their official language
While India has just 23 languages
Nigeria has 543 only 250 are recognized


theFilmtricsay
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by theFilmtric: 8:00am On Feb 23
angelfallz:
Error!! Error!! Error!!! Wrong!!! Wrong!!! Wrong!!!


nonsense Tell me the correct reason now Nonsense and rubbish undecided
theFilmtricsay
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by angelfallz(m): 8:12am On Feb 23
Before i answer please the bolded, i should tell you the correct reason for what exactly?



theFilmtric:
[s]
nonsense
Tell me the correct reason now
Nonsense and rubbish undecided


theFilmtricsay
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by theFilmtric: 8:36am On Feb 23
angelfallz:
Before i answer please the bolded, i should tell you the correct reason for what exactly?
the reason my assertion is “wrong”
If not GTFOutta my mentions


theFilmtricsay
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by VenumX: 9:10am On Feb 23
lefulefu:
In all honesty it is not the locality that makes a child good or bad
the one on the left probably had loving parents,grew up in a good home and was raised in the right way while the one on the right probably never knew his dad since the dad was a deadbeat dad who never took to his responsibilities and the mom was probably busy jumping from one man to another.na the end result be that,if u want ur child to be good then [b]be ready to play ur parent role and the child will follow the right [/b]path irregardless if its nigeria or US.

Ask yourself, how many of the adults in your generation want to be responsible in raising their children the right way? The culture of baby mama is being promoted by greater number of males and females being forced to accept such fate.

We expect more deadbeat fathers and children who will end up like the one on the right. Where as, in obodo oyibo, the law curtails poverty and crime to a minimum percentage.

I still stand by my word.
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by VenumX: 9:15am On Feb 23
thebosstrevor1:


You got it all wrong.

How about this?

This one was trained abroad. Environment matters in training kids

Let's assume you are right. Have you asked what exact neighbourhood he was raised in? It would definitely be in one of those black populated hoods where violence occures on a daily and kids are given guns as toys- a sub version of Africa itself.
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by Nobody: 9:44am On Feb 23
etrange:


Nigerians are known for scamming. There's nothing you'd say out of sentiment that will change the fact that this is an existing perception. You can list the things Americans are known for, it's not in my position to call you a liar. But I've lived in 3 countries (excluding my home country, Nigeria) and I can tell that this is what Nigerians are known for. It's sad but it is what it is. Not everyone agrees Nigerians are scammers but we all know that's how Nigerians perceived.

Sorry but not sorry.
I hope you're not new on NL, just forget about arguing with such a human being, you're wasting your time.
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by nextstep(m): 6:56pm On Feb 23
I'm late to the party but, the Nigeria we see today is a result of how the previous generations were raised, which I'm not sure was the best way.
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 8:29pm On Feb 23
RisenPhoenix1:


It has changed a lot. But it's not only the Western world. Things have changed back home too. A visit to a strict disciplinarian for a couple of weeks a year might have been sufficient back then, but not any more;



That is too simplistic. Obviously you should know that it couldn't have been an isolated incident, and I was not using it as evidence of anything, merely as a basis for asking whether you or someone you know ever did the same.



Kids pick up more from their peers than from their parents. Having said that, there are some methods of discipline that can get you reported by nosey neighbours or teachers to CPS and have your kids taken away.



I relocated back before I got married; though I take my kids for occasional visits to their cousins; at least before covid. In the last period, we'd been exploring African travel though. Europe is becoming one vast uninspiring morass of concrete and glitz. Nothing more to learn there. I find Africa to be way more interesting. I'll probably send them back when they want to enroll in the university; or I might not. South Africa and even Nigeria have good schools as well.

Whatever change that might have occurred out here couldn't have been here alone. Like you said, it's global. The detoriation is taking place everywhere thereby making the environmental comparison status to remain constant. If you didn't need to go home when both were fairly good, you definitely don't need to go home when both have gone bad. Nigeria of today is a decayed country, very unsafe.

Glad the 911 example was a side note. As for the discipline method, many of us who weren't flogged like horses didn't end up crazy. I'd like to believe you didn't too. So I don't think the need to do that outweighs the benefits of raising your kids wherever you live and where they'd eventually live.

We've argued long enough that it's beginning to seem as if I have issues with raising kids in Nigeria. No, I don't. What I do have issues with is sending off your kids to Africa while you live here. And to be sincere with you sir, you don't even seem to me as someone that would that. I think your kids are in Nigeria cause you're now in Nigeria. Otherwise, you'd have been with them anywhere you are while travelling around like you do now.
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 1:55am On Feb 24
jaxxy:


I think the problem of ur argument is U cannot understand what u have not experienced. Only the person that has gone through it can emphasize better about it’s great importance. If u’ve never walked the shoes to understand u will only argue based on what u brain can comprehend.

Nobody says u can’t succeed without experiencing African struggle bt Ure parents who now live in America bt struggled in Nigeria 1st might see not lack of struggle in the American System. Why it’s alot easier now even though many real Americans are still lazy.

Adaptation skills is what we are talking about if goes beyond snow, ure not an Eskimo leaving and working in Alaska.

Most migrants family did well in American because of the struggle they learnt from in their previous countries and did well In America without any American struggle.

My point is since real Americans are mostly lazy And American was built by migrants who had experiences from elsewhere it’s hard to define the American struggle clearly.

While no struggle is superior they are different. That difference counts for Smtn and it about weather issues. The Americans system is quite good so u don’t have to worry about a lot of things if Ure hardworking. In Africa hardworking or not h must feel the heat because the system is poor. U have to know what ure doing and be on ur toes here. Over there Ure relaxed.

Have u treck from skol home b4? Have struggled to get urself things because the system which shud provide it wouldn’t?? Have seen people around struggle to just eat 1 or 2 square meals?? No NGO or churches share food and clothes here every week or 2weeks. U don’t even have suffer Any if this to understand it our poor systems will train u to appreciate a far more better and robust system. U will appreciate the gaps and see even ideas u never imagined.

U will notice some things/privileges u take for granted In the American struggle/System. My point!

You start with "while no struggle is superior ... " and then you still go ahead to tell me why the African struggle is superior. You accuse of me not having enough experience to support my argument; fine, I've only been to Africa, Asia Europe and North America. I think that's fair enough even if it's not sufficient. What's the experience that makes you more suitable than myself to discuss the subject?

And who are the original Americans? The blacks sold into slavery aren't original, the whites that moved from Europe to the US during the colonization era aren't original, we immigrants that moved voluntarily afterwards are original. The only people that are original to the US and Canada are the aboriginals (red Indians). So even the so called lazy ones are immigrants too even if they aren't G1. In Nigeria, we have the hardworking ones and a lot of drug pushers, kidnappers, rapists, scammers, touts, etc. It is the same in the US, there are many hardworking people here as well as the lazy ones. So that's not a point at all.

All I've heard you say is that Africa has a more difficult environment but one doesn't necessarily need to grow up in a more difficult environment to turn out well except that's where you intend to live. Asia has some extremely poor states with more difficult life than what you see in many parts of Nigeria, yet they don't send their kids away for hardening. There's no pride is suffering, otherwise, Nigerians would be sending their kids to CentraAfrique, Uganda, etc. to grow up.

Here is a question to settle this: if you were living in Lagos, would you send your children to the village to do their secondary school while farming just cause you want them to turn out fine? Do people do that over there since kids in the village are stronger and more hardworking? Or If your answer is no, there's no point arguing this. Useless suffering doesn't make anyone great. Meaningful experiences do and they can be gotten anywhere.

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Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by jaxxy(m): 9:48am On Feb 24
WoundedLamb:


You start with "while no struggle is superior ... " and then you still go ahead to tell me why the African struggle is superior. You accuse of me not having enough experience to support my argument; fine, I've only been to Africa, Asia Europe and North America. I think that's fair enough even if it's not sufficient. What's the experience that makes you more suitable than myself to discuss the subject?

And who are the original Americans? The blacks sold into slavery aren't original, the whites that moved from Europe to the US during the colonization era aren't original, we immigrants that moved voluntarily afterwards are original. The only people that are original to the US and Canada are the aboriginals (red Indians). So even the so called lazy ones are immigrants too even if they aren't G1. In Nigeria, we have the hardworking ones and a lot of drug pushers, kidnappers, rapists, scammers, touts, etc. It is the same in the US, there are many hardworking people here as well as the lazy ones. So that's not a point at all.

All I've heard you say is that Africa has a more difficult environment but one doesn't necessarily need to grow up in a more difficult environment to turn out well except that's where you intend to live. Asia has some extremely poor states with more difficult life than what you see in many parts of Nigeria, yet they don't send their kids away for hardening. There's no pride is suffering, otherwise, Nigerians would be sending their kids to CentraAfrique, Uganda, etc. to grow up.

[b]Here is a question to settle this: if you were living in Lagos, would you send your children to the village to do their secondary school while farming just cause you want them to turn out fine? Do people do that over there since kids in the village are stronger and more hardworking? Or If your answer is no, there's no point arguing this. Useless suffering doesn't make anyone great. Meaningful experiences do and they can be gotten anywhere.
[/b]


U last paragraph show u don’t understand what hardening or the “suffering” I’m talking about is.

Who told u people in the village are stronger or sharper or more hardworking than those in Lagos? Who told u the suffering I’m talking about is necessarily going to a more rural area to starve urself and learn farming? Are they not farmers in America?

I’m talking about a tougher system, where the people’s adaptation rate is not only fast bt high. I’m talking of place that makes u think on ur feet not sleep on ur feet, I’m talking of where u the struggle to survive and get by is serious and u have no options. I’m talking about where there’s alot of competition at all levels not just academic, career bt especially on the street. It’s a multidimensional thing i can’t really explain it.

Let me ask u a question: can u survive is a place where the systems are dysfunctional and frustrating ur life and yet u mange to improvise and come out ontop? Most people brought up abroad will loose it in months because ur system supports u well enough.

Now I’m not saying u won’t probably do well if u never face these kinds of hardships bt like u parents coming out of these kinds of places makes surviving in America like child’s play because uve been through worse.

Some Struggles no be mate!!! If that’s what u want to here I’ve said it. U can compare Newyork fast place life to Texas or LA. It’s something similar to that.

When I say no struggle is superior I’m being diplomatic because All struggle is relatively meaningful bt they are not mates.

DO U UNDERSTAND
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by awulio(f): 10:21am On Feb 24
Firstly I’m a woman. Secondly I do live abroad my whole life. I live in the USA. Spent sometime in nigeria so that’s why I’m able to give insights into this. Schools here teach children to do as they please. I’ve heard people tell my cousins don’t listen to people if you don’t want to. Imagine a 12 year old cursing an adult. Even Nigerian parents and American parents complain about their children. I’ve seen many Nigerian parents send there children back to nigeria for a few years and they always came back very respectful. Most kids that went back to nigeria for a few years all said being in nigeria made them appreciate everything their parents do .
KingAzubuike:

Oga forget all these respect talks, it's all about culture. What's seen as normal here is seen as abnormal there and vice versa. Some of those things you tag as respect, if you go abroad , they'll see it as a weird nonsense. For example calling an elder one sir sounds weird to alot of them. If you kneel or bend to greet, they'll be like "wtf is this".

Go to Japan, it's disrespectful to eat in public transport or making loud conversations, here we see it as normal. It's also disrespectful to tip someone but here it's normal, it's not a disrespect. It depends on where you are. If you're in Rome, behave like a roman.
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by awulio(f): 10:24am On Feb 24
I’m not talking about deviant kids that I read about. I’m talking out of personal experiences here in America..... even American parents complain about their kids. Nigerian parents complain about it the kids. Every Nigerian kid that I know that went back to nigeria for a few.m years came back better and more respectful. They all said living in nigeria made them appreciate everything their parents do for them. Not 1 not 2.m but more than 10 kids that I know were sent back for about 2 years. I’m taking from personal experience. You talking from what you read . quote author=etrange post=99336573]

I never said America was the best place to raise a kid. I said someone living in the western world does not need to send his teens to Nigeria. North America has both Canada's and the US. I only used the US as example but the western world goes beyond America. Yes, you know the story of a useless child but does that really summarise America? Do you have the slightest idea how many stories of people who have killed or maimed their loved ones we see on front page everyday? Have you suddenly forgotten the numerous stories of boys gang rapping younger girls we read everyday here? Does any of these stories summarise Nigeria? No, they don't cause many Nigerians are doing great. Likewise, these deviant kids you read about don't summarise the US cause many US kids are doing great. There'll always be the bad ones but a good number of Nigerian kids abroad are doing just fine.

I am not doubting the intelligence of Nigerians but that intelligence is useless if there's no sound education system to harness it. You said it yourself that the government invest much into education thus making them more inventive. Why then send the teen to Africa at the age when he needs that education the most? You don't need to go Africa to learn skills to survive in America. That's just my point.[/quote]

1 Like

Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 6:28pm On Feb 24
jaxxy:
[/b]


U last paragraph show u don’t understand what hardening or the “suffering” I’m talking about is.

Who told u people in the village are stronger or sharper or more hardworking than those in Lagos? Who told u the suffering I’m talking about is necessarily going to a more rural area to starve urself and learn farming? Are they not farmers in America?

I’m talking about a tougher system, where the people’s adaptation rate is not only fast bt high. I’m talking of place that makes u think on ur feet not sleep on ur feet, I’m talking of where u the struggle to survive and get by is serious and u have no options. I’m talking about where there’s alot of competition at all levels not just academic, career bt especially on the street. It’s a multidimensional thing i can’t really explain it.

Let me ask u a question: can u survive is a place where the systems are dysfunctional and frustrating ur life and yet u mange to improvise and come out ontop? Most people brought up abroad will loose it in months because ur system supports u well enough.

Now I’m not saying u won’t probably do well if u never face these kinds of hardships bt like u parents coming out of these kinds of places makes surviving in America like child’s play because uve been through worse.

Some Struggles no be mate!!! If that’s what u want to here I’ve said it. U can compare Newyork fast place life to Texas or LA. It’s something similar to that.

When I say no struggle is superior I’m being diplomatic because All struggle is relatively meaningful bt they are not mates.

DO U UNDERSTAND

And I'm telling you living in a third world system at the age when your mates are learning the basics of a first world system is senseless especially if you intend to return to the first world system afterwards because there's no toughness you won't get anywhere in the world seeing that each country has it's own tough life and impoverished regions. You can always make your child live any lifestyles in the US cause virtually every lifestyle is obtainable here. But if you decide to send him to a region where kidnaping, maiming, car accident, corruption, banditry, terrorism, etc. are the order of the day, that's not building his experience, that's just subjecting him to unnecessary risks and increasing the probability of having a child who believes in the power corruption and gaming the system. Yes, the majority of what y'all call "smartness" in Nigeria is corruption and you don't even know it. Nigeria cannot give what it doesn't have.

You guys always believe yours is the toughest when you know nothing about others'. There's a different between being tough and being dangerous. New York is an extremely tough city. Many black dominated areas are worse than Lagos. In Nigeria, friends lend you money or even accommodate you when you need a place. In North America, you easily end up in the streets the moment you lose a job cause you have credits to pay and cause no one is take you in. By mere existing even without doing anything, your bills are accumulating. People earn just enough for their families and tax is based on the number of dependents you have. Most people are walking bags of loans. There's no free money, you must be independent. So there's always a way to teach a kid survival skills here without sending him home. There's nothing wrong with Africa but it's not worth it sending your kids home just when they need America the most. Secondary education here is where the actual transformation happens. Parents that bundle thier kids home are those who have failed in their responsibilities as African parents and they're just seeking help elsewhere.

Now tell me, how many people that send thier kids to Nigeria actually subject them to the so called tough life? None. They all end up in VI/Ekoyi (places better than many regions in the US) and they hardly know what goes on on the Mainland. Who is deceiving who?
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by etrange: 8:48pm On Feb 24
awulio:
I’m not talking about deviant kids that I read about. I’m talking out of personal experiences here in America..... even American parents complain about their kids. Nigerian parents complain about it the kids. Every Nigerian kid that I know that went back to nigeria for a few.m years came back better and more respectful. They all said living in nigeria made them appreciate everything their parents do for them. Not 1 not 2.m but more than 10 kids that I know were sent back for about 2 years. I’m taking from personal experience. You talking from what you read .

It's very unlikely that all the kids you know that went to Nigeria for thier teenage years ended up fine while those that didn't became problematic. I'm not doubting your experience. All I'm saying is, if you look closely, you'd also see many kids who are doing well without having to go home and many others who went home and joined bad gangs in Nigeria. Fine is relative. Your boss at work and your colleagues aren't all crazy, they just have a different cultur. Except your'e talking about kids knowing thier culture, I'd say a child becoming something in life is neither here nor there.

I believe those kids you observed just needed a new guardian who knows how to train kids in the presence of luxury. Not all parents can raise kids in the presence of luxury. Some don't have the mind to deny thier kids certain things or subject them to certain levels of difficulties, so they'd rather send the kids home and let another person do it. In this case, it's about the parents and thier shortcomings and not necessarily the US or Africa. Those parents would have still had exactly the same issues with the kid if they were living in places like the Banana Island in Nigeria. I know this because most of those kids that go home still go to live in luxurious places, sometimes even more luxurious and stress free than where they were in the US. So the change of country might not be the changing factor. The major difference is their new guardian who does the things their parents could not do.

Your last sentence is heavy on assumptions. I've lived in three different countries including the same North America where I presently reside so I've got my own share of experience too. Many black kids here with immigrant parents are doing fine (I was even surprised to see some speaking Igbo) though not all. Likewise, many kids in Nigeria are touts, Yahoo boys but not all. Environmental factors matter but the core of the child content can be moulded by parents. I strongly do not subscribe to the idea of sending kids away for this exact reason.

1 Like

Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by jaxxy(m): 9:51pm On Feb 24
WoundedLamb:


And I'm telling you living in a third world system at the age when your mates are learning the basics of a first world system is senseless especially if you intend to return to the first world system afterwards because there's no toughness you won't get anywhere in the world seeing that each country has it's own tough life and impoverished regions. You can always make your child live any lifestyles in the US cause virtually every lifestyle is obtainable here. But if you decide to send him to a region where kidnaping, maiming, car accident, corruption, banditry, terrorism, etc. are the order of the day, that's not building his experience, that's just subjecting him to unnecessary risks and increasing the probability of having a child who believes in the power corruption and gaming the system. Yes, the majority of what y'all call "smartness" in Nigeria is corruption and you don't even know it. Nigeria cannot give what it doesn't have.

You guys always believe yours is the toughest when you know nothing about others'. There's a different between being tough and being dangerous. New York is an extremely tough city. Many black dominated areas are worse than Lagos. In Nigeria, friends lend you money or even accommodate you when you need a place. In North America, you easily end up in the streets the moment you lose a job cause you have credits to pay and cause no one is take you in. By mere existing even without doing anything, your bills are accumulating. People earn just enough for their families and tax is based on the number of dependents you have. Most people are walking bags of loans. There's no free money, you must be independent. So there's always a way to teach a kid survival skills here without sending him home. There's nothing wrong with Africa but it's not worth it sending your kids home just when they need America the most. Secondary education here is where the actual transformation happens. Parents that bundle thier kids home are those who have failed in their responsibilities as African parents and they're just seeking help elsewhere.

Now tell me, how many people that send thier kids to Nigeria actually subject them to the so called tough life? None. They all end up in VI/Ekoyi (places better than many regions in the US) and they hardly know what goes on on the Mainland. Who is deceiving who?

I’m happy u said some places in America is more dangerous than Lagos so that clears up the assumption parents are sending their kids to danger zones. Africa isn’t a terrible place it just lacks modern organization and orderliness, there is a lot and I mean alot of potential in Africa. China sees it, the west are gradually seeing it as China has become a threat to their investment and future opportunities in Africa.

Stop the illusion that sending u to Africa is to suffer depending of what u call suffer. Dangote lives in Lagos, otedola lives in Lagos, these are billionaires bt trust me they are street smart to a large degree. Why? They came up through the trenches of Lagos, Nigeria and Africa.

The suffer we speak of is not limited to ur imagination and things ure saying. Its a culture and a system amongst a bigger dysfunctional government system. No system baby sits u here. No NGO feeds u here. And even if u like in lekki and vi u still get the memo one way or the other because u see others dealing with it and u interact.

U will go to places and see regular Nigerians dealing with life in Nigeria. U will get the message and that’s a learning point and knowledge that is very applicable anywhere in then world. Ur parents know better they experienced it and they have compared it to what is obtainable in America and tell u go back home and see another type of life. U are just talking and ranting of what u don’t know and have no knowledge of.

U better come to Nigeria and let me hook u up with some gigs grin Don’t be scared I got ur back G!!! grin people are actually living here, we travel and return. My childhood frnds live over there bt always visit. One travels to atleast 4/5 countries every year. We both went through boarding skol life in our secondary skol. It’s fun and learning not just suffering like u imagine it. grin I wish I cud get him to explain it better cos he’s lives extensively in America b4 visiting and he’s currently in Nigeria as we speak. His parents live here tho.

Lastly nobody has to get into corruption to beat the system. Basic hardwork is still very rewarding here some people are just lazy, disorganized or impatient. Corrupt people are in every country even America and they do it for their own selfish reasons. undecided

Can u speak pidgin English?? grin Don’t mind me it’s not mandatory grin Bt on a final note if u really don’t want to come pls atleast go to a Naija community probably in Texas and interact with newly relocated Nigerians u will learn a few and vice versa. grin
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 12:30am On Feb 25
jaxxy:


I’m happy u said some places in America is more dangerous than Lagos so that clears up the assumption parents are sending their kids to danger zones. Africa isn’t a terrible place it just lacks modern organization and orderliness, there is a lot and I mean alot of potential in Africa. China sees it, the west are gradually seeing it as China has become a threat to their investment and future opportunities in Africa.

Stop the illusion that sending u to Africa is to suffer depending of what u call suffer. Dangote lives in Lagos, otedola lives in Lagos, these are billionaires bt trust me they are street smart to a large degree. Why? They came up through the trenches of Lagos, Nigeria and Africa.

The suffer we speak of is not limited to ur imagination and things ure saying. Its a culture and a system amongst a bigger dysfunctional government system. No system baby sits u here. No NGO feeds u here. And even if u like in lekki and vi u still get the memo one way or the other because u see others dealing with it and u interact.

U will go to places and see regular Nigerians dealing with life in Nigeria. U will get the message and that’s a learning point and knowledge that is very applicable anywhere in then world. Ur parents know better they experienced it and they have compared it to what is obtainable in America and tell u go back home and see another type of life. U are just talking and ranting of what u don’t know and have no knowledge of.

U better come to Nigeria and let me hook u up with some gigs grin Don’t be scared I got ur back G!!! grin people are actually living here, we travel and return. My childhood frnds live over there bt always visit. One travels to atleast 4/5 countries every year. We both went through boarding skol life in our secondary skol. It’s fun and learning not just suffering like u imagine it. grin I wish I cud get him to explain it better cos he’s lives extensively in America b4 visiting and he’s currently in Nigeria as we speak. His parents live here tho.

Lastly nobody has to get into corruption to beat the system. Basic hardwork is still very rewarding here some people are just lazy, disorganized or impatient. Corrupt people are in every country even America and they do it for their own selfish reasons. undecided

Can u speak pidgin English?? grin Don’t mind me it’s not mandatory grin Bt on a final note if u really don’t want to come pls atleast go to a Naija community probably in Texas and interact with newly relocated Nigerians u will learn a few and vice versa. grin

I don't think I said more dangerous but yeah, some places in the US are probably more dangerous than some places in Nigeria if you would exclude the North. However, to be precise, I said tougher. And the point I was making there is that going to Nigeria because it's a tougher environment and then staying on the Island in Lagos in a house probably more beautiful than your American house is just useless. If a child turns out better for for going to Nigeria while still living a wealthy region like most returnees do, it's probably cause the new guardian is more experienced in raising kids in a wealthy environment than his parents are (please, reference etrange's post above).

I am not saying what don't know cause I visit Nigeria. Probably more often than you visit any other country. So with all due respect, I don't think you have more authority to discuss this than I do. The basic idea of smartness there is cheating. You can hardly buy anything without being cheated. Everyone is looking for a way to cheat the system. Nobody trusts anyone. And some of them that come to the US/Canada come by gaming the system and they still look for ways to bypass the system while living here. You see the boys on NL everyday typing "pussy", "pkekus", "toto", "women are useless", etc. Most of them are very unhappy, close minded and aggressive. Of course, I'd raise my kid there if I were living there but sending my kid to that place while I have the chance to raise them here and make the visit Africa? No, that doesn't seem like a great idea.

You don't have to tell me Africa is good. I never said Africa is bad, my continent is awesome even with the limitations. I'm open minded about any region and I believe a child can turn out good or bad just anywhere. A child with African parents within an African community in the US has a perfect combination of the African values and the American standards. Parents that send thier kids home only do that when they've realised they've failed in their duty to raise thier children and they, therefore, need experienced parents to help them. You've spent a good deal of time convincing me Africa isn't a terrible place to raise a child (even though I never said it was), but you're absolutely close minded about the US, exactly the close minded and sentimental nature I was on about.

Yes, I am always eager to meet new immigrants cause I like hearing stories about Nigeria. Sadly, I don't speak Pidgin, I speak English, French and some Spanish. While I admire pidgin and would love to learn it, I think the languages I speak are just enough to take me anywhere. Meanwhile, I be ajepako baba. grin

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Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by awulio(f): 4:14am On Feb 25
Firstly Every American parent I’ve ever met has complained about their kids. Every Nigerian child that i knew that went to nigeria came back a better person. 90% of American kids believe they don’t need to respect anyone. I don’t care about greetings and all those things but for a 12 year old or 5 years old to be telling their parents shut up or Bleep you. There’s a problem. Even CEO in America prefer to hire foreigners not because they cheaper but they say foreigners carry themselves with respect and respect their job. Imagine a worker telling their boss they don’t want to do the job the boss told them to do because they don’t feel like it. Worked and schooled here. Most managers complain of American employees, most parents complain of their American raised children. If 70 % or 80% of parents or managers say they prefer foreign trained people then you should know there’s a problem with the system here.
etrange:


It's very unlikely that all the kids you know that went to Nigeria for thier teenage years ended up fine while those that didn't became problematic. I'm not doubting your experience. All I'm saying is, if you look closely, you'd also see many kids who are doing well without having to go home and many others who went home and joined bad gangs in Nigeria. Fine is relative. Your boss at work and your colleagues aren't all crazy, they just have a different cultur. Except your'e talking about kids knowing thier culture, I'd say a child becoming something in life is neither here nor there.

I believe those kids you observed just needed a new guardian who knows how to train kids in the presence of luxury. Not all parents can raise kids in the presence of luxury. Some don't have the mind to deny thier kids certain things or subject them to certain levels of difficulties, so they'd rather send the kids home and let another person do it. In this case, it's about the parents and thier shortcomings and not necessarily the US or Africa. Those parents would have still had exactly the same issues with the kid if they were living in places like the Banana Island in Nigeria. I know this because most of those kids that go home still go to live in luxurious places, sometimes even more luxurious and stress free than where they were in the US. So the change of country might not be the changing factor. The major difference is their new guardian who does the things their parents could not do.

Your last sentence is heavy on assumptions. I've lived in three different countries including the same North America where I presently reside so I've got my own share of experience too. Many black kids here with immigrant parents are doing fine (I was even surprised to see some speaking Igbo) though not all. Likewise, many kids in Nigeria are touts, Yahoo boys but not all. Environmental factors matter but the core of the child content can be moulded by parents. I strongly do not subscribe to the idea of sending kids away for this exact reason.




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Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by SavageResponse(m): 2:15pm On Feb 25
etrange:
I've had this argument several times. Our pride is all we've got going for us as Africans but we should know when to draw the line. You want to send a child to Africa at his formative age knowing fully well that that's exactly when he needs to be enjoying all the western world has to offer? Foundations are laid in secondary schools, don't let your child miss out on that. Americans are known for inventions while Nigerians are known for scamming. Stereotyping is wrong cause we have both good and bad people everywhere but think about it, are kids really better of in a country like this? I don't think. I think a kid that will be good will be good regardless of where he's raised.

**Edited**
For those (actually one guy) offended by the post above, I wasn't stereotyping. I was only trying to point out a contrary perception. Nigerians are not all scammers even though they're scammers amongst us. Likewise, American kids aren't all spoilt even thought they're spoilt ones amongst them. It's all stereotyping and the point I was making is, if you're running away from a stereotypical America, what about the stereotypical Nigeria?

And for information sake, I don't subscribe to the idea that Nigerians are treated differently in western world. Apart from places where identity is crucial (airports, embassies, etc), a white man sees all blacks as blacks regardless of where you come from (especially in big diverse cities). At least, I've never experienced that. So when I say "Nigerians are known as scammers", it's born out of the disposition of some international organisations like PayPal, WES, etc. towards the country. It's almost like the country has a bad name but the people aren't necessarily sieved out when outside.

Saying that a child will be good or bad irrespective of where he is raised means you think that raising a child is actually a gamble
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by etrange: 4:26pm On Feb 25
SavageResponse:


Saying that a child will be good or bad irrespective of where he is raised means you think that raising a child is actually a gamble

No, bro. I'm not undermining environmental influence, I'm saying every environment has its good and bad sides. Also, many african immigrants create the African environment by immersing themselves in the African communities abroad thus giving the children a fair chance at enjoying both. Some don't want to have anything to do with Africans until they need their child to be African, then they bundle them home. Such parents wouldn't still do any better even if they were in Nigeria, they'd still hide thier kids on the Island. I believe parents play the most important role.

Again, what some call out "turn out fine" is a child who can speak and understand thier language/culture. We view "fine" through the spectrum of our culture. Speaking one's language is great but I don't think not being able to speak one's language is enough to say a child didn't turn out fine. Nevertheless, travelling home to learn your language (or even going anywhere to learn a certain culture/language is always a great thing). Just my opinion.
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by Studymore123: 9:39pm On Feb 26
WoundedLamb:
An African friend always argue that kids are better of raised in Africa. He said he'd send his two boys to Nigeria so they'd know what life is all about. I asked him "what life is all about", he said hardship, blackouts, etc. He said kids raised in the Americas aren't respectful and organized cause they didn't suffer. And that brings me to the topic of this thread. Is the Nigerian style of raising kids really the ideal model? I just want to share my opinion on the things my friend mentioned as reasons to send his boys to Africa: respectful and organized and the need to "suffer small" (his words).

I don't have a problem with some people wanting their kids to go to Africa to learn thier culture but I don't subscribe to the idea that kids raised in Africa are better off. What do you think?

Undoubtedly, environmental factors play a major role in child bringing. The greatest influence though is parental.

If I have any reason to send my child to Nigeria while in the US, I would be relocating with the child, remain there for the entire duration and return with the child.

Many parents I've discussed with appreciate the Nigeria secondary educational system but even if that is the reason, I would remain with the child for the entire secondary education in Nigeria.

Children can thrive in any environment as long as they are loved and properly cared for.

The parents that send their children back home while remaining where they are have a skewed view of child training.

On the other hand travelling and experiencing life in a different environment can be an enriching experience but not in this case.
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by WoundedLamb: 10:09pm On Feb 26
Studymore123:


Undoubtedly, environmental factors play a major role in child bringing. The greatest influence though is parental.

If I have any reason to send my child to Nigeria while in the US, I would be relocating with the child, remain there for the entire duration and return with the child.

Many parents I've discussed with appreciate the Nigeria secondary educational system but even if that is the reason, I would remain with the child for the entire secondary education in Nigeria.

Children can thrive in any environment as long as they are loved and properly cared for.

The parents that send their children back home while remaining where they are have a skewed view of child training.

On the other hand travelling and experiencing life in a different environment can be an enriching experience but not in this case.

Your last paragraph is so true. Students exchange programs are underrated. It exposes the kids to the world beyond their horizons. In the absence of that, I think kids should travel a lot if the parents can afford it. I just don't subscribe to the idea of bundling the kids to Africa. Such kids still go to live in the wealthy parts of the city and enroll into schools that are almost like the ones abroad. The major difference is the new guardian.

So I feel parents that send thier kids home aren't confident they can bring up a child in the presence of comfort. Some of them isolate themselves from the Nigerian communities until they start looking for ways to make thier kids "African". Otherwise, there are many ways to immerse the child into the Nigerian culture while living abroad. Moreover, while I adore our culture, I don't think people of other cultures didn't turn out well. They're just different.
Re: Is Africa Really A Better Place to Raise A Child Than The Western World? by etrange: 11:20pm On Mar 06
awulio:
Firstly Every American parent I’ve ever met has complained about their kids. Every Nigerian child that i knew that went to nigeria came back a better person. 90% of American kids believe they don’t need to respect anyone. I don’t care about greetings and all those things but for a 12 year old or 5 years old to be telling their parents shut up or Bleep you. There’s a problem. Even CEO in America prefer to hire foreigners not because they cheaper but they say foreigners carry themselves with respect and respect their job. Imagine a worker telling their boss they don’t want to do the job the boss told them to do because they don’t feel like it. Worked and schooled here. Most managers complain of American employees, most parents complain of their American raised children. If 70 % or 80% of parents or managers say they prefer foreign trained people then you should know there’s a problem with the system here.

I do know how you arrived at that percentage but I guess we have to stick with our individual experiences then cause here in Canada, the reverse is the case. You'll have to really good to get the job before those with local experience. We have Africans (and Asians) who moved here and decided to keep looking for ways to game the system while we also have the serious ones. So foreigners don't get any preferential treatment. As for the kids, many can't speak their Nigerian languages or even understand the culture (that's probably what a typical Nigerian will define as not turning out well) but these kids aren't any less serious with thier lives. They have thier goals/ambitions and they work towards them just like anyone else. It's okay to want your kid to appreciate your culture but that doesn't mean those don't are bad.

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