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Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 11:14pm On Apr 06
Myer:
Ok thanks for sharing Ezekiel's verse ongenerationql curses being ended.
But Psalm 51:5 was David acknowledging scriptural foundations that every human is born with the sinful seed of Adam.
David's claim of a sinful birth is personalized in Psalm 51 so I am not certain it can be broadly applied to all since Adam. We have the example of Abel and supposedly Seth to work with.. both of them direct descendants of Adam, who are listed as men who belonged to God(Abel by God Himself, and then Seth by his mother, Eve). undecided
Myer:
Just as Romans 3:23 reiterates in new testament.
And hiw everyone needs the seed of Jesus Christ as the second Adam.
But not everyone needs the seed of Jesus Christ. There were righteous men in the country even at the time of Jesus Christ. Also, when asked why He was in the company of sinners, Jesus Christ made it quite clear that His mission was not to those already righteous in the land but to the sinners.

Luke 5 vs 27- 32(ERV)
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27. After this Jesus went out and saw a tax collector sitting at his place for collecting taxes. His name was Levi. Jesus said to him, “Follow me!”
28. Levi got up, left everything, and followed Jesus.

29. Then Levi gave a big dinner at his house for Jesus. At the table there were many tax collectors and some other people too.
30. But the Pharisees and those who taught the law for the Pharisees began to complain to the followers of Jesus, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and other sinners?”

31. Jesus answered them, “It is the sick people who need a doctor, not those who are healthy.
32. I have not come to ask good[Righteous] people to change. I have come to ask sinners to change the way they live.”
So, of those who practice the Old Covenant to this day(Israelites and those in the land of Canaan), there are likely some righteous among them. undecided

And back in the Bible, there are examples given of men who before the Old and New Covenants were declared righteous men by God... Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, even Job. So where this idea of a "sin nature" comes from, does not appear to be biblical but assumed. undecided
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Myer: 11:42pm On Apr 06
Kobojunkie:
David's claim of a sinful birth is personalized in Psalm 51 so I am not certain it can be broadly applied to all since Adam. We have the example of Abel and supposedly Seth to work with.. both of them direct descendants of Adam, who are listed as men who belonged to God(Abel by God Himself, and then Seth by his mother, Eve). undecided
But not everyone needs the seed of Jesus Christ. There were righteous men in the country even at the time of Jesus Christ. Also, when asked why He was in the company of sinners, Jesus Christ made it quite clear that His mission was not to those already righteous in the land but to the sinners.
So, of those who continue to practice the Old Covenant to date Israelite and those in the land of Canaan), there are likely some righteous, even today, among them. undecided

And back in the Bible, there are examples given of men who before the Old and New Covenants were declared righteous men by God... Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, even Job. So where this idea of a "sin nature" comes from, does not appear to be biblical but assumed. undecided

It's definitely biblical just as I have pointed you to biblical scriptures that corroborates it.

What you have simply done is prove the biblical contradiction where one verse says one thing and another says the direct opposite.

1 Like

Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 11:48pm On Apr 06
Myer:
It's definitely biblical just as I have pointed you to biblical scriptures that corroborates it.
What you have simply done is prove the biblical contradiction where one verse says one thing and another says the direct opposite.
This is not a matter of biblical contradiction but instead of an error in the interpretation of what is written.

David, in the psalm, never declared that the Lord Almighty revealed to him that he, David, was born in sin. There is no record of God, in fact, declaring that all men are born in sin - it was not even implied when God condemned Adam in Genesis 3. Recall, sin is disobedience of God's commandment, and so it cannot be assumed. So it is safe to assume that David instead speaks of his own birth and in his psalm. undecided

Or David may have written that psalm on behalf of the child born from his meeting with Bathsheba, pleading with God on his behalf. Heck, it could have been the boy himself who wrote the psalm which was instead attributed to his father. undecided

As for Romans 3 vs 23, again, I can only say that Paul was wrong if we are to assume that he indeed meant All humans on the face of the planet since right there in the Gospels, we are told of men who were righteous from even before Jesus Christ showed up on the scene.

1) Zechariah, and his wife, Elizabeth, both of them Old covenant Jews, was introduced as righteous folks

Luke 1 vs 5-7 (ERV)
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5. In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah,[a] of the division of Abijah. And he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
6. And they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord.
7. But they had no child, because Elizabeth was barren, and both were advanced in years.

2) Joseph, the husband of Mary, an Old covenant Jew, was introduced as a righteous man

Matthew 1 vs 19-20 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19. And her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly.
20. But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

3) Simeon, an Old covenant Jew, was introduced as a righteous man

Luke 2 vs 25-35 (ESV)
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25. Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him.
26. And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
27. And he came in the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the Law,
28. he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said,
29. “Lord, now you are letting your servant[e] depart in peace, according to your word;
30. for my eyes have seen your salvation
31. that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
32. a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel.”
33. And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him.
34. And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is appointed for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is opposed
35. (and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed.”

4) Joseph from the Jewish town of Arimathea was introduced as a righteous man

Luke 23 vs 50-35 (ESV)
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50. Now there was a man named Joseph, from the Jewish town of Arimathea. He was a member of the council, a good and righteous man,
51. who had not consented to their decision and action; and he was looking for the kingdom of God.
52. This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.

So, since we find that there was at least one good man on the planet, it is safe to conclude that Paul was not, in fact, speaking of all men on the planet but maybe to those in the audience addressed in his letters but... who knows. undecided
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Ihedinobi3: 7:57am On Apr 07
sonmvayina:
It's a market strategy...
They invented the genetic disease (sin) to sell the cure (salvation). They just have to convince you that your sickness was inherited and as such you need to buy the cure.
I don buy the idea of original sin..it never occured anywhere in the old testament.


Christians over to you..

Hello.

I'm only taking advantage of a good question. I'm sure it is obvious that you and I have little chance of any meaningful discussion.

No, the Bible does not teach that sin is inherited. What it teaches is that we all inherit a sin nature if we have a human father (Romans 5:12).

What a sin nature is is the corruption of our body so that it has dictates of its own that oppose the inclination of our spirits toward good. So the promptings of our body are always in the wrong direction until we take control of it through the Spirit and force it to heel, so to speak.

Nobody is ever guilty of their father's or ancestor's sin. We are all responsible for our own sin. But we all sin because we all inherited a morally corrupted/crippled body from our fathers.

Salvation is the same. We cannot inherit it any more than we can inherit sin. But we can choose it just as we can choose to sin or not to sin.

Cheers.
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by MaxInDHouse(m): 7:58am On Apr 07
To understand you need to STUDY the Bible not just read!

God told Adam "if you eat of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, you will die that same day" {Genesis 2:17} most Bible readers are confused on this matter because Adam lived 930 years after eating this fruit {Genesis 5:5} so the question arises "what is the meaning of God's word @ Genesis 2:17?" many concluded that it couldn't have been physical death but spiritual but God promised that when Paradise is here death will be no more {Revelations 21:3-4 compared to Isaiah 25:8} so definitely it couldn't have been a spiritual death otherwise God wouldn't have promised Christians who believe in Jesus that death will be things of the past!
So what exactly is the death God spoke about @ Genesis 2:17? It is PHYSICAL!
Note that Adam never lived up to 1,000 years and none of his descendants after him did. Paul explained that the reason why humans couldn't find a cure to oldage and death is because "we all inherited sin from one man (Adam) and death through sin and death has continued to rule as King over Mankind" Romans 5:12, 17
As for the day God spoke of @ Genesis 2:17 Apostle Peter explained that it simply means 1,000 years that's why Adam never lived up to a thousand years after eating that fruit.

Salvation comes through one man (Jesus Christ) {1Corinthians 15:45} by believing (trusting) in the things Jesus preached and taught people living when the angels of destruction comes down here to exterminate rebellious humans many sticking to Jesus' teachings will be preserved. Proverbs 2:20-22
Just as the angel of death couldn't enter into the houses having the blood of the lamb in Egypt {Exodus 12:13} same will happen to those trusting (believing) in the teachings of our Master, Lord and King Jesus Christ. When the angels of destruction see the blood of Jesus spiritual mark on the foreheads of believers they will surely pass over them!
How will people get this spiritual mark of Salvation?
Well Prophet Malachi explained "A time will come on this same planet when you will see some individuals chatting with their neighbours on how to become God's friends, and God will send out his angels to pen down their names in a book" {Malachi 3:16} so even when there is confusion everywhere you shouldn't be terrified because that will serve as a sign for you to distinguish between the worshipers of the true God and those deceiving themselves! Malachi 3:18
So when Jesus (the saviour) walked this planet he commissioned a program that fully depict what Malachi said, Christians must spend their times not only on seeking daily needs but also on going to preach and teach their neighbours in their homes! Matthew 10:11-13
Jesus said whoever refused to attend to this preachers will not find things easy in that day of judgment! Matthew 10:14-15
So my friend Salvation is today! The angels are everywhere monitoring and noting the activities of God's people as they're discussing with their neighbours about salvation. Names are been written each second and whosoever is not found written in that book will surely be exterminated! Revelations 20:15 compare to Luke 19:27
May you have PEACE! smiley
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by EvilPOTATO(m): 8:09am On Apr 07
Sin is human, salvation is spiritual
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by MightySparrow: 8:43am On Apr 07
Simply because Adam didn't receive pardon before giving birth.
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by shadeyinka(m): 8:51am On Apr 07
Point of correction. Sin is not inherited!
The nature to commit sin and the consequence of this nature is inherited.

If viruses don't spread infections, there would have been no need for antivirus!

sonmvayina:
It's a market strategy...
They invented the genetic disease (sin) to sell the cure (salvation). They just have to convince you that your sickness was inherited and as such you need to buy the cure.
I don buy the idea of original sin..it never occured anywhere in the old testament.


Christians over to you..
Why is sickness natural but Hospitals aren't?
Why is death inherited but living requires energy?
Why does a Farm require weeding when only good seeds are planted?

Why is entropy always increasing unless deliberate effort is applied against it?

BTW,
So many other things are inherited apart from your biological features!
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by sonmvayina(m): 9:27am On Apr 07
shadeyinka:
Point of correction. Sin is not inherited!
The nature to commit sin and the consequence of this nature is inherited.

If viruses don't spread infections, there would have been no need for antivirus!


Why is sickness natural but Hospitals aren't?
Why is death inherited but living requires energy?
Why does a Farm require weeding when only good seeds are planted?

Why is entropy always increasing unless deliberate effort is applied against it?

BTW,
So many other things are inherited apart from your biological features!



Why is the cure optional?
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by sonmvayina(m): 10:29am On Apr 07
More attempt at the question is still being expected. .

What some people like MaxinDhouse are scared to accept and acknowledge is the fact that God created everything in twos. It is called the principles of duality. It does not mean that there is a seperate God for light and another for darkness. There is only one God and one power. That is why it is called a universe.

Whether life or death, they are both created by God and he has placed both in front of us. We are expected to choose. Life is a choice, just as death is a choice. Both are the same thing. As we are spiritual beings. The only difference is a change of world. In other for us to have a fulfilled life and more purposeful life, God gave humanity his laws to guide us in the journey. Sin is simply a missing of the mark. Like for example, we know how bad and disgusting to insult our parents, but due to a moment of weakness we insult and dishoner them, thereby breaking Gods commandments. God enjoins us to appoligise to our parents and repent and forsake our sins. He said he will forgive and remwber our sins no more. Ezekiel 18..

What we have also failed to grasp is that it is God who created us like this. With the ability to sin he did this with the intension that we learn from it and grow. So for those who think the death of a man brings salvation should think again. Sin is not transferable and salvation is neither....

Every man has to work out their own salvation. By learning Gods laws and trying to keep it..
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by shadeyinka(m): 1:11pm On Apr 07
sonmvayina:


Why is the cure optional?
I don't know what you mean by "optional"
BUT
Only those who know they are sick visit the hospital!
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 2:20pm On Apr 07
shadeyinka:
Point of correction. Sin is not inherited!
The nature to commit sin and the consequence of this nature is inherited.

If viruses don't spread infections, there would have been no need for antivirus!
...
BTW,
So many other things are inherited apart from your biological features!
So from whom did Adam, your "Son of God", inherit the "nature to commit sin" from? undecided

Why was Abel, Adam's son, able to beat this "nature to commit sin"?

1 Like

Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by sonmvayina(m): 3:51pm On Apr 07
Kobojunkie:
So from whom did Adam, your "Son of God", inherit the "nature to commit sin" from? undecided

Why was Abel, Adam's son, able to beat this "nature to commit sin"?

Dont mind him...

So what is your own opinion..?

1 Like

Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 4:12pm On Apr 07
sonmvayina:

Dont mind him...
So what is your own opinion..?
if there really is such a thing as an "inherited nature of sin" then surely God is not justified in His anger against Man's sins. undecided

The idea is foreign to scripture and so only established in the minds of men. undecided
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by shadeyinka(m): 5:28pm On Apr 07
Kobojunkie:
So from whom did Adam, your "Son of God", inherit the "nature to commit sin" from? undecided
On the day adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit, they fell from the exalted position of man created in the "image of God" to man who is just dust.
Adam and Eve did not inherit the nature to commit sin, their choice to commit sin made them infected with the "virus"of sin.

Let me use this example to explain.
A drug addict has the nature to take his drugs
However, he didn't become a drug addict the minute he first tasted the hard drugs
He became a drug addict AFTER the drugs took over his body system! (for some people they need three consecutive repeat doses, some people more)

Adam and Eve were not Sinners before they took of the forbidden Fruit.
They became sinners AFTER the effect of the forbidden fruit took over their soul!

Sin and the nature of Sinning are two different things.
Sin is a singular act of violation of God's instruction,
The nature of Sin is the compulsion to commit sin or addiction to committing sinful acts.
Kobojunkie:

Why was Abel, Adam's son, able to beat this "nature to commit sin"?
There is no record of sin of either Cain or Abel until after their sacrifice to God, hence it is impossible to say that Abel was without sin.
Rom 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..

Matt 19:17
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”


Abel by Faith simply did what was right in God's presence.
Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous,


It takes a conscious effort to resist the nature of sin for we were all born selfish!
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by sonmvayina(m): 5:30pm On Apr 07
Kobojunkie:
if there really is such a thing as an "inherited nature of sin" then surely God is not justified in His anger against Man's sins. undecided

The idea is foreign to scripture and so only established in the minds of men. undecided

God gave Mankind his laws to guide them in their journey through life. The same laws that our forefathers passed on from generation to generation through parables, stories and proverbs. The jews wrote their down and called it the torah. From time to time God raised prophet to warn the people when the evil in the land was getting out of hand. .He enjoins men to forsake their evil ways and atone for their sins some with animal sacrifice and some with other farm produce.


All of a sudden the jesus chatacter is introduced to man.

My question to you specifically is what is the purpose of the jesus character and of what importance is he to God or to man. So give me old testament quotes that says the gentiles are to believe in the "son of God" in other to gain salvation...
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 5:46pm On Apr 07
sonmvayina:

God gave Mankind his laws to guide them in their journey through life. The same laws that our forefathers passed on from generation to generation through parables, stories and proverbs. The jews wrote their down and called it the torah. From time to time God raised prophet to warn the people when the evil in the land was getting out of hand. .He enjoins men to forsake their evil ways and atone for their sins some with animal sacrifice and some with other farm produce.

All of a sudden the jesus chatacter is introduced to man.

My question to you specifically is what is the purpose of the jesus character and of what importance is he to God or to man. So give me old testament quotes that says the gentiles are to believe in the "son of God" in other to gain salvation...
God may have given your forefathers rules and commands to pass down to you, but when I arrived on the scene, the information was long lost. Instead, what was left to pass on were nothing doctrines and commandments of men, ..that which we refer to as culture and traditions,meaningless lies of men that have nothing to do with God or the things of God. undecided

The jews may have written God's command to them down in their Torah but you and I are not jews for us to pretend that what God gave specifically to the Jews automagically should apply in any way to us. God even made this clear in His agreement with the Jews that only those of the blood of Jacob can lay claim to any of that which He has given to them. Even the foreigners who live in the land of Canaan do not benefit as much. So, I don't why anyone who is not of the blood of Jacob, and does not live in the Canaan should pretend he/she can steal that which God has given only to His people, Israel. undecided

God, from the time of Abraham, promised that He would bless the nations through the seed of Abraham, and the world waited to be blessed by God too. In Deuteronomy , He promised to send another like Moses, a Law giver. Then through His prophets He declared that indeed a New Covenant was to come, like the Old Covenant but different in many ways. And that New Covenant arrived in the person of Jesus Christ to bless the Nations. undecided
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by 1Sharon(f): 6:16pm On Apr 07
Image123:


It's a disservice to Christianity for you to refer to koboko as a Christian. There's nothing Christian about him. He's not born again neither does he believe the Bible. That being said, what i said is the Bible, and student of the Bible knows that. Have you found a born saint?

He would equally call YOU an apostate for YOUR views.

1 Like

Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 6:44pm On Apr 07
shadeyinka:
On the day adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit, they fell from the exalted position of man created in the "image of God" to man who is just dust. Adam and Eve did not inherit the nature to commit sin, their choice to commit sin made them infected with the "virus"of sin.

Let me use this example to explain.
A drug addict has the nature to take his drugs
However, he didn't become a drug addict the minute he first tasted the hard drugs
He became a drug addict AFTER the drugs took over his body system! (for some people they need three consecutive repeat doses, some people more)

Adam and Eve were not Sinners before they took of the forbidden Fruit.
They became sinners AFTER the effect of the forbidden fruit took over their soul!

Sin and the nature of Sinning are two different things.
Sin is a singular act of violation of God's instruction,
The nature of Sin is the compulsion to commit sin or addiction to committing sinful acts.

There is no record of sin of either Cain or Abel until after their sacrifice to God, hence it is impossible to say that Abel was without sin.
Rom 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..

Matt 19:17
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”


Abel by Faith simply did what was right in God's presence.
Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous,


It takes a conscious effort to resist the nature of sin for we were all born selfish!
Adam was created righteous(good) by God Himself. And since sin is in fact disobedience of God's commandment(not some arbitrary law), and here you admit that what in fact happened was that Adam made a conscious choice to sin against God. undecided

Then we have the first generation, twins at that, Abel and Cain, both of them born by Adam and Eve who were condemned sinners at this point. Abel pleased God(Faith simply refers to our obedience to God's commandments) whereas Cain did not please God with his gift. undecided

What we know is this - where there is no law, there is no sin, and where there is law, sin is defined by it. So, your statement " There is no record of sin of either Cain or Abel until after their sacrifice to God, hence it is impossible to say that Abel was without sin." is meaningless here since God Himself does not hold up any sins against them prior to that event. God declared Abel good(Righteous) because Abel did what God wanted and since God is the only Judge, after all, His judgment is true. undecided

Since Abel, when it mattered most(where obedience to God was concerned) was able to make the right choice, what does that say of your "compulsion to commit sin or addiction to committing sinful acts" theory?undecided
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 6:45pm On Apr 07
1Sharon:
He would equally call YOU an apostate for YOUR views.
I wouldn't do that since we are both a part of the Kingdom of God. undecided
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Image123(m): 6:55pm On Apr 07
1Sharon:


He would equally call YOU an apostate for YOUR views.

He doesn't believe in Jesus, he doesn't believe the Bible, he is not born again. So how is he a Christian. What makes one a Christian if i may ask you?
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by 1Sharon(f): 7:20pm On Apr 07
Kobojunkie:
I wouldn't do that since we are both a part of the Kingdom of God. undecided

He disagrees that you are lol
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by 1Sharon(f): 7:20pm On Apr 07
Image123:


He doesn't believe in Jesus, he doesn't believe the Bible, he is not born again. So how is he a Christian. What makes one a Christian if i may ask you?

He believes in jesus
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by GeneralDae: 7:46pm On Apr 07
1Sharon:


He believes in jesus
I wonder what belief in Jesus mean to some Christians. I used to think if someone takes the teachings of Jesus seriously, then he believes in Jesus.
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by sonmvayina(m): 7:48pm On Apr 07
Kobojunkie:
God may have given your forefathers rules and commands to pass down to you, but when I arrived on the scene, the information was long lost. Instead, what was left to pass on were nothing doctrines and commandments of men, ..that which we refer to as culture and traditions,meaningless lies of men that have nothing to do with God or the things of God. undecided

The jews may have written God's command to them down in their Torah but you and I are not jews for us to pretend that what God gave specifically to the Jews automagically should apply in any way to us. God even made this clear in His agreement with the Jews that only those of the blood of Jacob can lay claim to any of that which He has given to them. Even the foreigners who live in the land of Canaan do not benefit as much. So, I don't why anyone who is not of the blood of Jacob, and does not live in the Canaan should pretend he/she can steal that which God has given only to His people, Israel. undecided

God, from the time of Abraham, promised that He would bless the nations through the seed of Abraham, and the world waited to be blessed by God too. In Deuteronomy , He promised to send another like Moses, a Law giver. Then through His prophets He declared that indeed a New Covenant was to come, like the Old Covenant but different in many ways. And that New Covenant arrived in the person of Jesus Christ to bless the Nations. undecided

I dont see you support your opinion with old testament scriptures.

So you mean you prefer the lie of the romans who created the jesus character as there is no where it was reported on such a thing happening in the old testament. The new convenant is still with the jews and it entails God writting his laws in our heart that it becomes effortless to keep. Not human sacrifice...
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 7:52pm On Apr 07
sonmvayina:
I dont see you support your opinion with old testament scriptures.

So you mean you prefer the lie of the romans who created the jesus character as there is no where it was reported on such a thing happening in the old testament. The new convenant is still with the jews and it entails God writting his laws in our heart that it becomes effortless to keep. Not human sacrifice...
I referenced some of the books from where you can find the claims I made, did I not? undecided
Genesis, Deuteronomy, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah.... undecided

As for God writing His laws in our hearts, that is exactly what is the New Covenant... His law is written, by His Spirit, in the heart of those who belong to Him, this a departure from the Old Covenant way where God had individuals teach their neighbors, children, etcetera, about God and His laws. God set Himself up as one and only Teacher, Shepherd, Master, etc... over His flock in this case, just as He declared through His prophets. undecided
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by sonmvayina(m): 7:55pm On Apr 07
GeneralDae:

I wonder what belief in Jesus mean to some Christians. I used to think if someone takes the teachings of Jesus seriously, then he believes in Jesus.

Did God ever asked any one to believe in another man other than God himself?
Will God ever share his glory with any other person or thing ?

Did any prophet ever asked anybody to believe in the death of the messiah as against obeying Gods commandments?

There is so many conflict between what God commanded in the jewish bible and the christian bible.

Why so?
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by sonmvayina(m): 7:58pm On Apr 07
Kobojunkie:
I referenced some of the books from where you can find the claims I made, did I not? undecided
Genesis, Deuteronomy, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah.... undecided

As for God writing His laws in our hearts, that is exactly what is the New Covenant... His law is written, by His Spirit, in the heart of those who belong to Him, this a departure from the Old Covenant way where God had individuals teach their neighbors, children, etcetera, about God and His laws. God set Himself up as one and only Teacher, Shepherd, Master, etc... over His flock in this case, just as He declared through His prophets. undecided

I still cant see the importance of jesus, the prophet where all teaching Gods laws already. For you to still teach people about it means the new convenant has not been established..
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by sonmvayina(m): 8:00pm On Apr 07
Kobojunkie:
I referenced some of the books from where you can find the claims I made, did I not? undecided
Genesis, Deuteronomy, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah.... undecided

As for God writing His laws in our hearts, that is exactly what is the New Covenant... His law is written, by His Spirit, in the heart of those who belong to Him, this a departure from the Old Covenant way where God had individuals teach their neighbors, children, etcetera, about God and His laws. God set Himself up as one and only Teacher, Shepherd, Master, etc... over His flock in this case, just as He declared through His prophets. undecided

Show me specific chapters and verses...lets analyse them together..
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by shadeyinka(m): 8:02pm On Apr 07
Kobojunkie:
Adam was created righteous(good) by God Himself. And since sin is in fact disobedience of God's commandment(not some arbitrary law), and here you admit that what in fact happened was that Adam made a conscious choice to sin against God. undecided
Yes! Eve was deceived but Adam made a conscious choice to sin against God. Why?
We can only speculate!

Kobojunkie:

Then we have the first generation, twins at that, Abel and Cain, both of them born by Adam and Eve who were condemned sinners at this point. Abel pleased God(Faith simply refers to our obedience to God's commandments) whereas Cain did not please God with his gift. undecided
Okay!

Kobojunkie:

What we know is this - where there is no law, there is no sin, and where there is law, sin is defined by it. So, your statement " There is no record of sin of either Cain or Abel until after their sacrifice to God, hence it is impossible to say that Abel was without sin." is meaningless here since God Himself does not hold up any sins against them prior to that event. God declared Abel good(Righteous) because Abel did what God wanted and since God is the only Judge, after all, His judgment is true. undecided
There was no law against murder before Can killed his brother but this didn't stop Cain from being guilty.
Cain's sacrifice was not accepted not because of his sacrifice but because he HAD not done well! WHat God rejected was Cain himeself and it seems not about his sacrifice. If Cain was accepted, his sacrifice would also have been accepted.

It seems that Gods law was already written in their conscience at that time to know what is right and wrong.

Kobojunkie:

Since Abel, when it mattered most(where obedience to God was concerned) was able to make the right choice, what does that say of your "compulsion to commit sin or addiction to committing sinful acts" theory?undecided
If you check carefully, there was no instruction from God that Cain and Abel should make a sacrifice.

Gen 4:5-7
“Cain was very angry and dejected [that God did not regard his sacrifice]. Then the Lord said to Cain, ‘Why are you angry? Why are you dejected? If you act rightly, you will be accepted; but if not, sin lies in wait at the door; its urge is for you, yet you can rule over it’


Cain was expected to act against his compulsion for sin: Just like with Abel, by Faith, Cain could rule over this nature.
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 8:07pm On Apr 07
sonmvayina:
Show me specific chapters and verses...lets analyse them together..
You already pointed out in your previous comment that you are indeed aware of what God said of His New Covenant through His prophets, so why do you need me to give you what you already have? undecided
And since you already conclude that Jesus is not the New Covenant, how do you intend to show that any of what I have stated so far about the New Covenant experience is untrue? undecided
Re: Why Is Sin Inherited But Salvation Isn't? by Kobojunkie: 8:17pm On Apr 07
sonmvayina:
I still cant see the importance of jesus, the prophet where all teaching Gods laws already.
Just like the Old Covenant(YHWH) is Law in the land of Canaan for the People of God, the New Covenant(Jesus Christ) is Law but instead of the Kingdom of God and for the Sons of God. undecided
So we are speaking not only of two different Laws but also of two different Kingdoms as well, and two different peoples... undecided
sonmvayina:
For you to still teach people about it means the new convenant has not been established..
Everyone who is of His New Covenant is essentially controlled by God's Spirit - becomes a mouthpiece for God, like the prophets of the Old Covenant. God, even through His servants sends His message wherever He wants using them.

I can tell you of it and point you to it but to teach it to you, that is a whole different thing entirely and only God can do that. Just as He declared in Jeremiah 31 vs 31 -34, it remains so. undecided

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