Muk-Ldn:

@ ekt_bear

PDP can be defeated, Buhari took 1/3 of the votes even with the shocking rigging. SW didnt vote. All we need is a solid candidate and party then put in the work in the next 4 years.

1. How do we know that Buhari did not rig too?
2. Where will you get the cash or fake votes to get 80% turnout from? Not enough cash, since you don't control the FG. No fake votes, since you don't control the ballotting and collation process.

Kilode?!:

Some people can't do that though. They can't keep quiet, too much at stake for them, especially the very idealistic ones who believe they can actually catalyse changes and make the country better for most people.

I'm very very pessimistic in the near term, But optimistic we will get it right on the long run, if we can restructure amicably.

If long run = 100, 200 years (or whenever Nigeria breaks apart, whichever comes first), then I might agree with you.

I wonder if this politics of inducement and rigging is what is also done in other third world democracies. I'll need to read up on India at some point.

ekt_bear:

I'm starting to think that is the best policy for sanity. Watch from afar, don't get too involved personally. Make your money, enjoy your life, don't ask too many questions which you know have unpleasant answers. Focus instead on making your own little local bubble of the world a good place.

As much as I care about Nigeria and its politics I think this is the best way to view Nigerian issues.
I was with Loma in Houston sometime back and we argued late into the night, Loma is believes so much in Nigeria and believes we can weed out corruption, I wasnt too sold on the mindset of the average Nigerian.

We all agree PDP is bad for us, yet we voted PDP based on whatever sentiments.

Anyways watch from afar, dont get involved, make your money and just live your life

ekt_bear:

I'm starting to think that is the best policy for sanity. Watch from afar, don't get too involved personally.  Make your money, enjoy your life, don't ask too many questions which you know have unpleasant answers. Focus instead on making your own little local bubble of the world a good place.

Wow ekt_bear is now getting the Joke called Nigeria. I am impressed given ur previous posts.  

Nigeria is too complicated a place to scream urself hoarse for. Its a place that makes strange bedfellows that are sometimes incomprehensible. There are no permanent foes, just permanent agenda. And u will be in for a rude awakening if u think that the agenda is based on ideology. 99.9 percent of the time the agenda is based on self preservation.

I laff very loudly when I hear some Igbos screaming that they have won. Thats just for internet bragging rights. The reality is that it makes no difference to the status quo. More contracts means more opportunities for the money bags to make more money. The ordinary man still wakes up in the morning and still wonders what kind of fu-cked up country this is. So unless if U are directly related to them money bags, i dont really see any uhuru.

The Yorubas are scheming for Fashola 2015. Its ok to plan but also bear in mind that this is Nigeria, plus 4 yrs in politics is like a life time. New enemies can be made, new friends acquired, alliances realigned. Think anything is a done deal at ur own embarrasment.

As for the North, all this brouhaha is not REALLY about the sanctity and transparency of democracy. Buhari , thier candidate , lost and they are mad. Next election cycle if PDP floats a Northern candidate , we will be singing a different tune.

This is Naija, the land of opportunity  

^-- Why do we continue this path, though? What is the point of this game? Why not build a real country, a real democracy? And if that is impossible in Nigeria (as I am now starting to believe it is), why not find some solution other than Nigeria? Is splitting the country the end of the world?

First time I voted in my life was in 2008, for Obama. The library not too far from my house is where the polling booth was. PDP didn't bribe me to vote. ACN man didn't offer me N1000 for my vote. I did it because I wanted to.

What is wrong with having 10% voter turnout, but at least everyone voting their convictions, rather than because they are bribed? That is real democracy. Not a system of 30%, 60%, 85% turnout, and no real certainty how many of those voters were bought, stuffed ballots, underaged voters, etc.

All these guys on Channels TV talking about election, democracy. Even these international observers. . . they basically all have no clue what they are talking about. We don't have that in Nigeria, at all at all.

ekt_bear:

^-- Why do we continue this path, though? What is the point of this game? Why not build a real country, a real democracy? And if that is impossible in Nigeria (as I am now starting to believe it is), why not find some solution other than Nigeria? Is splitting the country the end of the world?

First time I voted in my life was in 2008, for Obama. The library not too far from my house is where the polling booth was. PDP didn't bribe me to vote. ACN man didn't offer me N1000 for my vote. I did it because I wanted to.

What is wrong with having 10% voter turnout, but at least everyone voting their convictions, rather than because they are bribed? That is real democracy. Not a system of 30%, 60%, 85% turnout, and no real certainty how many of those voters were bought, stuffed ballots, underaged voters, etc.

All these guys on Channels TV talking about election, democracy. Even these international observers. . . they basically all have no clue what they are talking about. We don't have that in Nigeria, at all at all.

My brother too many words of wisdom coming from you, I caught the BB bug and believed it, I sold it to as much people as I could and the learned people believed me. But a week to election I realised simply that right here in the SS the minds of people were made up, I realised suddenly that in politics you need numbers and the people with the most numbers are not the learned ones. I saw in the last week people who just wanted to vote for GEJ they just wanted to vote for him.

I saw ACN APGA PDP and yes CPC agents shaking hands and "working together" infact I heard that the unit down the road from where I was some boys stormed it with ballot papers in their pockets ready to stuff the box and people allegedly help put it inside. So I think in Nigeria we need to separate the free from the fair and from the credible/

That notwithstanding there was a massive turnout and votes for GEJ, I realised that Buhari and the CPC made a huge mistake in not at least sending agents that would "control" the amount of votes emanating from these regions. In fact I can understand the south south but WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED IN LAGOS. *Shakes head*

This country is so divided and so polarised along religious and ethnic lines. *shakes head again*

I'm starting to think that is the best policy for sanity. Watch from afar, don't get too involved personally. Make your money, enjoy your life, don't ask too many questions which you know have unpleasant answers. Focus instead on making your own little local bubble of the world a good place.[/quote

Permit me to use this as my status.

^^^^^^

Compared with what we had before, this was actually a good election.

Noone is saying that is perfect. The turn out in some states were mind boggling to say the least and the under age voters in the North were real. However, for our nascent democracy, we are heading the right direction. This will sound absurd to the losing side but its the truth when U compare that to what we have gone thru and whats happening in other countries.

Even when U strip out the irregularities on both sides, GEJ would have still won. And no matter how u slice it, thats democracy for U cos its the majority vote. And if Buhari is not satisfied, then he has that right and he should take it up in court.

The US of A didnt get to this point without some bumpy roads. Pick up a history book and U will quickly see that as recently as the sixties, ballot boxes were stolen or carried away in Chicago.

We are going to give a go at this thing called democracy. Hopefully it should work. If it doesnt, we seek other alternatives. But in the meanwhile, live ur life like u said.  I am not the biggest admirer of GEJ but the guy win and lets all hope that he does a good a job for the sake of the country.

Chrisbenogor:

I saw ACN APGA PDP and yes CPC agents shaking hands and "working together" infact I heard that the unit down the road from where I was some boys stormed it with ballot papers in their pockets ready to stuff the box and people allegedly help put it inside. So I think in Nigeria we need to separate the free from the fair and from the credible.

That notwithstanding there was a massive turnout and votes for GEJ, I realised that Buhari and the CPC made a huge mistake in not at least sending agents that would "control" the amount of votes emanating from these regions. In fact I can understand the south south but WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED IN LAGOS. *Shakes head*

This country is so divided and so polarised along religious and ethnic lines. *shakes head again*

SMH @ the bolded, not surprised though, I persoally heard it was done in 2003 from people who did it and sold their parties out becaus they believed they had no chance and the money was good.

You control the Center(money, treasury) and the message, you control the country, period. That is how it works in an unstructured, centralized environment like Nigeria.

We can't manage it. We have to solve it. I'm going to keep saying it everywhere until I get tired.

ekt_bear:

^-- Why do we continue this path, though? What is the point of this game? Why not build a real country, a real democracy? And if that is impossible in Nigeria (as I am now starting to believe it is), why not find some solution other than Nigeria? Is splitting the country the end of the world?

First time I voted in my life was in 2008, for Obama. The library not too far from my house is where the polling booth was. PDP didn't bribe me to vote. ACN man didn't offer me N1000 for my vote. I did it because I wanted to.

What is wrong with having 10% voter turnout, but at least everyone voting their convictions, rather than because they are bribed? That is real democracy. Not a system of 30%, 60%, 85% turnout, and no real certainty how many of those voters were bought, stuffed ballots, underaged voters, etc.

All these guys on Channels TV talking about election, democracy. Even these international observers. . . they basically all have no clue what they are talking about. We don't have that in Nigeria, at all at all.

I'm sure you are gradually seeing why this country needs those deep changes. 10000000000MW of electricity may not solve our problems.

Libya has good electricity, I'm sure they have mobile phones and good electricity in Somalia too.

Until we fix the structure, We may never change this Nation.

People are letting their fears of a possible split cloud their judgement while our political leaders and business elites are scared because they might lose some power.

Kilode?!:



People are letting their fears of a possible split cloud their judgement while our political leaders and business elites are scared because they might lose some power.

The ordinary man on the streets of lagos or Onitsha might not have a problem with that proposition. However, the powers that be, due to economic and political reasons, might not let that happen.

IMO, decentralisation might be the next option if this democracy thing no work. Every region controls thier own destiny (resources, educational policies etc) and each region sends representatives to Abuja to form some sort of central government that works for some common good like defense etc.

Kilode?!:

SMH @ the bolded, not surprised though, I persoally heard it was done in 2003 from people who did it and sold their parties out becaus they believed they had no chance and the money was good.

You control the Center(money, treasury) and the message, you control the country, period. That is how it works in an unstructured, centralized environment like Nigeria.

We can't manage it. We have to solve it. I'm going to keep saying it everywhere until I get tired.

I agree on decentralization, but I think you disagree on how exactly it should be implemented. Understandable, since you come from Ondo and I from Ekiti  At the end of the day, these things come down to cold, hard, cash.

I'm sure you are gradually seeing why this country needs those deep changes. 10000000000MW of electricity may not solve our problems.

Libya has good electricity, I'm sure they have mobile phones and good electricity in Somalia too.

I disagree, to some extent. Increasing the non-oil sector of the economy reduces the influence of the FG and PDP. Growing the non-oil sector is imo KEY to weakening the powers of the FG.

i have taken time to study the presidential election thoroughly and as a matter of fact, this is my first post after the election. There was no deal struck at all btw Tinubu and GEJ. This election was based on religious sentiment and personality. I can assure you that if it were Buhari that contested under PDP, SE will not vote for him same as SS and probably Middle belt.  This is not good for the country.

Basseti:

[b]The ordinary man on the streets of lagos or Onitsha might not have a problem with that proposition. [/b]However, the powers that be, due to economic and political reasons, might not let that happen.

IMO, decentralisation might be the next option if this democracy thing no work. Every region controls thier own destiny (resources, educational policies etc) and each region sends representatives to Abuja to form some sort of central government that works for some common good like defense etc.

Correct sir, that has always been my opinion.

ekt_bear:

I agree on decentralization, but I think you disagree on how exactly it should be implemented. Understandable, since you come from Ondo and I from Ekiti  At the end of the day, these things come down to cold, hard, cash.

I disagree, to some extent. Increasing the non-oil sector of the economy reduces the influence of the FG and PDP. Growing the non-oil sector is imo KEY to weakening the powers of the FG.

Me, from Ondo State? I'm undeclared, just simply O'dua nation.

Now the finer details we disagree on can be worked out. As long as we realize the need to restructure. We can't start until we agree there's a problem to be solved.

Yes, widening the revenue base and expanding the economy will bring some changes, but don't forget that the sectionalism, "tribalism" injustice and corruption encouraged by this disjointed system will make that very difficult to achieve.

Yes, widening the revenue base and expanding the economy will bring some changes, but don't forget that the sectionalism, "tribalism" injustice and corruption encouraged by this disjointed system will make that very difficult to achieve.

Most times, we all think that this "tribalism" injustice and corruption exists somewhere in the atmosphere but the truth is, it exists in all of us and the more we continue to acknowledge&believe in its existence, the more we tend to behave in that direction, yes we are aware of the existence of corruption&tribalism but can we all cease/discipline ourselves not to practice it? the change we need is not just in 1 man, it is not in changing heads of state, its in us, every 1 of us.

assme:

Most times, we all think that this "tribalism" injustice and corruption exists somewhere in the atmosphere but the truth is, it exists in all of us and the more we continue to acknowledge&believe in its existence, the more we tend to behave in that direction, yes we are aware of the existence of corruption&tribalism but can we all cease/discipline ourselves not to practice it? the change we need is not just in 1 man, it is not in changing heads of state, its in us, every 1 of us.

That is why we need to infuse ideologies into our political parties. We need to form a real progressive group with a clear ideology which we have to impart into the minds of the people to change their thinking. When we get into govt we need to add this ideology into the subject of "social studies " in primary and secondary schools, our state universities will have a compulsory general course to teach this ideology. in 15 years we will have a new set of emerging young professionals with a changed mindset to that of our parents.

I personally dont see any party today with a clear ideology. ACN does not have a clear ideology , CPC does not either but to some extent we can pin point anti corruption and some policies to them like "elimination of state of origin and replacing with state of residence" which i agree with. PDP is the worst because its known ideology is looting.

We need great minds to move things in Nigeria , great minds who can also play the dirty politics of Nigeria and not guys like Utomi who remain aloof from the grasroots. Great minds who can inspire the streets, speak the language they understand to them in order to chnage their mindset for the better.

Lagosboy:

That is why we need to infuse ideologies into our political parties. We need to form a real progressive group with a clear ideology which we have to impart into the minds of the people to change their thinking. When we get into govt we need to add this ideology into the subject of "social studies " in primary and secondary schools, our state universities will have a compulsory general course to teach this ideology. in 15 years we will have a new set of emerging young professionals with a changed mindset to that of our parents.

I personally dont see any party today with a clear ideology. ACN does not have a clear ideology , CPC does not either but to some extent  we can pin point anti corruption and some policies to them like "elimination of state of origin and replacing with state of residence" which i agree with. PDP is the worst because its known ideology is looting.

We need great minds to move things in Nigeria , great minds who can also play the dirty politics of Nigeria and not guys like Utomi who remain aloof from the grasroots. Great minds who can inspire the streets, speak the language they understand to them in order to chnage their mindset for the better.

You talk a lot, but know very little.

I stand corrected. ACN has a clear ideology, they have the same outlook as AG. The ACN policy was formulated by the late Bola Ige. The problem we have here is that all the parties, and Yes, including PDP, have the same approach to politics and economics, two different things. If you have ever read or listen to Awolowo, and/or Bola ige, you would understand my point.

That you do not know what ACN stands for nor what CPC stands for is very unfortunate, going by your passionate and aggressive defense of Buhari on this forum.

I reiterate, ACN has a clear ideology. The problem is that our Journalist and so called learned people have failed us all. They have failed to force the parties to speak more about their approach to government, politics and economics. They, the Journalist, whether intentional or otherwise, have also failed to explain to us what the parties stand for. They have failed to draw sharp differences, and, when applicable, similarities among the parties.

You come across as an air-head who talks just for the sake of it. Teaching ideology in social - studies class? what the phock are you talking about? How old are you BTW? ( No offeinse)

^^^^

So insulting, isn't it?

Akanbi_edu:

^^^^

So insulting, isn't it?

Some people are better ignored, i have added a couple of them to people i will avoid discussions with as i never trade insults with anyone here on NL.

I am suprise this thread has JUST five pages. Hope people has said their mind out totally. 

Mr. Lai Muhammed said there was no cooperation between ACN and PDP.

Aregbesola is 100% Asiwaju Tinubu. Also note that ACN chairman chief Bisi Akande comes from the same Osun state.

Buhari is a m.oron. It isn't anybody's obligation to do your work for you. Cut a deal and negotiate like everyone else. And if someone rejects your deal, then up your offer.

Why do people want good things for free in life?  And get angry when you don't give it to them?

Anyway, in four years time, CPC can be our junior partner in this deal. No more 2nd place in this endeavor.

They talk negatively against a powerful man instead of praising and persuading him.  

They needed him and his ACN people and there was no other way.

He got to this position through hard work and endurance.

They made some mistakes. 

hmmmmmm, memories....lets hope you all can stand by your presidential votes and beat your chest that you are not part of Nigeria's problem !!!!

You think he cares? Tinubu never cared for anybody except his deep pocket, Fashola had just been a victim of circumstances to carry out all Tinubu's devious plans !

GEJ had lots of goodwill in preparation for the 2011 elections.
Today,the man na wowo!!!!!!!!!!