sbeezy8:

yoruba is culture and he doesnt speak fula everyone knows that.

FEW CAN ACTUALLY SPEAK FULA not even the hausa-fulani mixed one can speak fulfude, many emirs cant also its not only him.

didnt binis start calling themselves yoruba  over time? didnt nupe start to call themselves yoruba?

How does everyone know he doesn't speak Fulani? I don't know about Nupe, but when did Bini ever call themselves 'Yoruba'? Anyway, back to the point, speaking Yoruba doesn't make you Yoruba.

Your issue is that you're arguing about history you don't kno binis nupes hausas baribas fulas living in yoruba cities years ago began turning into yoruba n calling themselves yoruba. The same way nupes yorubas some fula igalla also turned into edos binis afenmais , what do you nor understand

sbeezy8:

not all slaves that settled in lagos were yoruba everyone knows that.

most married into elite yoruba families.

yoruba mothers n stuff.

most of the slaves who settled in lagos were yoruba.

sorry.

where do you feel the non-yoruba slaves came from?

unless they were creoles from sierra leone, and even then, the creoles were heavily yoruba.

likewise the brazilians. Could have been some angolans among them but we dont know that for sure.

sbeezy8:

Your issue is that you're arguing about history you don't kno binis nupes hausas baribas fulas living in yoruba cities years ago began turning into yoruba n calling themselves yoruba.

maybe in lagos.

in other parts, people trace their ancestry back a bit, so everyone knows who the immigrants are, or were.

they themselves dont deny their origin or history.


the only foolproof way of becoming yoruba is if you have immediate yoruba lineage through one of your parents- especially your dad.


hausas have been in lagos for centuries and they still remain hausa, not yoruba.

sbeezy8:

Your issue is that you're arguing about history you don't kno binis nupes hausas baribas fulas living in yoruba cities years ago began turning into yoruba n calling themselves yoruba. The same way nupes yorubas some fula igalla also turned into edos binis afenmais , what do you nor understand

That's not what you wrote, you wrote that the Bini and Nupe started calling themselves Yoruba overtime without specifying that you're talking about immigrants. Anybody can assimilate immigrants, but the point here is assimilating people in their own homelands which isn't happening.

Tpia you don't kno what youtalkin bout not everyone in my fam has a yoruba father and if you ask them where they come from they will tell you their mothers hometown is oba of lagos yoruba or not

sbeezy8:

Tpia you don't kno what youtalkin bout not everyone in my fam has a yoruba father and if you ask them where they come from they will tell you their mothers hometown is oba of lagos yoruba or not

you are talking of recent history. Many families in nigeria have intermarried, with fathers and mothers from all over [not that it's done the country much good anyway]. So that's not really news, imo.

shouldnt you wonder when or how the obas and indigenes of lagos became muslim?

is benin muslim?

@ Alex, you need to learn a little bit of history. Someone once said that A man who ignores learning loses the past and is dead forever. What Ezeuche said is a mere statement of historical fact. Ezeuche did not write the history and I am not sure you can rewrite or retell history. Ezeuche merely said the influence of the Binis can be felt across the whole of Southern Nigeria. I've got a couple of questions and suggestions, of course, I believe you are someone who honestly seek knowledge and information and would diligently interrogate any question. Did you read 'Ovonramwen No'Gbaisi' a play written by Prof Ola Rotimi (A Yoruba Prof)? It has an account that even as recent as the late 19thC, the Binis still exercised sovereignty and controlled Akure in modern Ondo State. If you studied West African history, you would realize that the Benin Empire at its height controlled a vast territory across the tropical rainforest belt on the West Coast of Africa from the Upper Niger in Idah/Nupe Kingdom, in Northern Nigeria to the River Niger in Asaba in the East, to Eko (now Lagos) and Dahomey (now Benin Republic) all along the West Coast of Africa in the Bight of Benin on the Atlantic Ocean. If you studied law, you would read a book titled 'Nigerian Land Law' by Prof Ben Nwabueze where he stated that the word 'Eko' is of Benin origin and was given to Lagos by the Binis. Even Asaba got its name from a statement by a Bini war expedition team "Aisaba lo'ona" meaning "we can't cross this", referring to the mighty river. The Urhobos, Itsekiris, Isokos etc and most of the ethnic groups in the Niger Delta either trace their origin to Bini or were once a suzrain province of the Benin Empire at one time or the other. In 2011, I was in Naija and was watching a traditional Ibo ceremony in Onitsha on TV and one of the Chiefs was being interviewed about the history of the people and their cultural practices. He traced it to the Binis. Even late Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe confirmed this while he was still alive. The Binis were expansionists naturally, and the Benin Empire prospered and fought several expansionist wars especially during the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. The Binis merely took advantage of the strategic geographical location of their capital to control access to the sea (Atlantic Ocean). No traders from the hinterlands were allowed to trade with the Europeans on the Atlantic Ocean without paying custom duties to the Binis. This, in addition to the export of slaves capturd in wars of expansion gave them economic and military might to expand the vast Empire. That strategic location of Benin City (linking the East to the West, and the South to the North)is till vital to the survival of trade and commerce in modern Nigeria. Unfortunately, the Binis did not stop expanding and it was part of what contributed to the decline of the Empire before the Benin-British War of 1897 finally put the nail in the coffin. Go read up a bit of history, culture and you would realize that it is not for no reason that Benin continues to resonate across the world in terms of arts and culture as the cradle of Black Civilzation. The Portuguese made an interesting statement in the 1400s when they first visited Benin City. You might wish to find out what they said.

More importantly, I was very surprised about what I discovered during the, I think it was 2007/8 Eleko Festival. During the festival, there was a section where journalist interviewed some prominent members of the royal family. One old woman gave an oral ccount of the history of the royal family on the Lagos Island. And I was shocked when she said that her progenitors, the Obas on the Island were descendants of the Benin Royal Family. She was also very exact on specific traditional titles, ceremonies and rituals and how they came from the Benin Royals. Sometime that same week, I read in a similar account of the origin of Eko, its traditional rulership and cultural practices in a local newspaper that covered that year's ceremony. The Bini's are not even interested in claiming Lagos, not even if they could. But facts are sacred and should be treated as such no matter how muuch we wish the contrary. The Benin Empire was what it was because acquisition of territory back then was by conquest but that is not so today.

I bet, most Yorubas commentators here who are strongly persuaded by sentiments have not even bothered to find out the accuracy of what they believe to be the popular opinion about the origin of Eko and I am sure they would be shocked by what they would find. The Obas in Eko who are descendants of the Benin Royal Family proudly acknowledge their origin and I am surprised to find that there ordinary Yorubas who dispute it in this forum. There is Eti Osa LGA on the Island. "Etin Osa" is a popular Benin name given to male children and it means "The Power of God."

Dahomey for example was the son of Ogiso in Benin. 'Ogiso' means "King of the Sky" and it was the system of Kingship before its abolition and establishment of the Oba dynasty. Dahomey was banished from the Benin Kingdom and he wandered westwards. Benin Republic President acknowledged the historical tie between the origin of his country and the Binis when he came to see the Oba of Benin some years back.

That some choose to dispute history is no surprise. Even the British accouunt of the Benin-British War of 1897 is different. The Binis blame the British for instigating the war when British Soldiers violated Bini tradition when they insisted on visiting the Oba during Igue Festival: a taboo. The British blame the Binis calling the Kingdom "Benin: The City of Blood" for starting the war when thte Binis killed British Soldiers sent by the Queen to visit the Oba. So who was the aggressor? But the difference between the Benin-British relations is that both the Benin Kingdom and the British Government agree that there was a war, that Benin soldiers killed 6 British soldiers, that the British reinforce and there was a full blown war between the United Kingdom and the Benin Kingdom; that both sides suffered casualties, that at the end thte British won, looted the Oba's Palace of its artefacts, and destroyed the City. The only dispute is who casued the war. Today, when you pass through Ring Road in Benin City, there is a statue in honour of a Benin General with a dead British Soldier with an arrow in his chest at his feet. In 1997 during the Centenary celbrations of the Benin-British War, the British Ambassador to Nigeria came to see the Oba of Benin to discuss how some of the bronze, ivory, carvings and other cultural items stolen by the British could be returned. The British do not deny.

But the Yorubas will always deny everything even in the face of incontrovertible evidence from independent archeological and historical documents. That's my problem with them. It belies their learning to totally deny or try to rewrite history. On the other hand, the Igbos have been more objective in doing a fairly accurate historical assessment of their relatiohip with Benin. I don't know which section of Igbo, but it is on record that particularly those in Onitsha, do trace their origin to Benin.

Notwithstanding how small and almost insignificant, Benin has become today, we cannot deny its influence across Southern Nigeria and the entire West Coast of Africa. They left indelible footprints in the sands of time: from the Bight of Benin in the Atlantic Ocean to Eko, to Dahomey (Benin Republic) etc the evidence of a once sprawling rain forest empire is still visible today. And that is why we say in Benin that "Before Great Britain, Great Benin was."

Jimtext: @ Alex, you need to learn a little bit of history. Someone once said that A man who ignores learning loses the past and is dead forever. What Ezeuche said is a mere statement of historical fact. Ezeuche did not write the history and I am not sure you can rewrite or retell history. Ezeuche merely said the influence of the Binis can be felt across the whole of Southern Nigeria. I've got a couple of questions and suggestions, of course, I believe you are someone who honestly seek knowledge and information and would diligently interrogate any question. Did you read 'Ovonramwen No'Gbaisi' a play written by Prof Ola Rotimi (A Yoruba Prof)? It has an account that even as recent as the late 19thC, the Binis still exercised sovereignty and controlled Akure in modern Ondo State. If you studied West African history, you would realize that the Benin Empire at its height controlled a vast territory across the tropical rainforest belt on the West Coast of Africa from the Upper Niger in Idah/Nupe Kingdom, in Northern Nigeria to the River Niger in Asaba in the East, to Eko (now Lagos) and Dahomey (now Benin Republic) all along the West Coast of Africa in the Bight of Benin on the Atlantic Ocean. If you studied law, you would read a book titled 'Nigerian Land Law' by Prof Ben Nwabueze where he stated that the word 'Eko' is of Benin origin and was given to Lagos by the Binis. Even Asaba got its name from a statement by a Bini war expedition team "Aisaba lo'ona" meaning "we can't cross this", referring to the mighty river. The Urhobos, Itsekiris, Isokos etc and most of the ethnic groups in the Niger Delta either trace their origin to Bini or were once a suzrain province of the Benin Empire at one time or the other. In 2011, I was in Naija and was watching a traditional Ibo ceremony in Onitsha on TV and one of the Chiefs was being interviewed about the history of the people and their cultural practices. He traced it to the Binis. Even late Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe confirmed this while he was still alive. The Binis were expansionists naturally, and the Benin Empire prospered and fought several expansionist wars especially during the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. The Binis merely took advantage of the strategic geographical location of their capital to control access to the sea (Atlantic Ocean). No traders from the hinterlands were allowed to trade with the Europeans on the Atlantic Ocean without paying custom duties to the Binis. This, in addition to the export of slaves capturd in wars of expansion gave them economic and military might to expand the vast Empire. That strategic location of Benin City (linking the East to the West, and the South to the North)is till vital to the survival of trade and commerce in modern Nigeria. Unfortunately, the Binis did not stop expanding and it was part of what contributed to the decline of the Empire before the Benin-British War of 1897 finally put the nail in the coffin. Go read up a bit of history, culture and you would realize that it is not for no reason that Benin continues to resonate across the world in terms of arts and culture as the cradle of Black Civilzation. The Portuguese made an interesting statement in the 1400s when they first visited Benin City. You might wish to find out what they said.

More importantly, I was very surprised about what I discovered during the, I think it was 2007/8 Eleko Festival. During the festival, there was a section where journalist interviewed some prominent members of the royal family. One old woman gave an oral ccount of the history of the royal family on the Lagos Island. And I was shocked when she said that her progenitors, the Obas on the Island were descendants of the Benin Royal Family. She was also very exact on specific traditional titles, ceremonies and rituals and how they came from the Benin Royals. Sometime that same week, I read in a similar account of the origin of Eko, its traditional rulership and cultural practices in a local newspaper that covered that year's ceremony. The Bini's are not even interested in claiming Lagos, not even if they could. But facts are sacred and should be treated as such no matter how muuch we wish the contrary. The Benin Empire was what it was because acquisition of territory back then was by conquest but that is not so today. "

The word BINI is a Portuguese.
Ibinu is Yoruba/Itsekiri.
Bini is a highly heterogeneous society with links to major Southern Nigerian tribes.

Jimtext: No traders from the hinterlands were allowed to trade with the Europeans on the Atlantic Ocean without paying custom duties to the Binis.

This is not correct.

This, in addition to the export of slaves capturd in wars of expansion gave them economic and military might to expand the vast Empire.

Also not correct. Oba Ewuare started the expansion even before the export of slaves occurred and his sons continued it regardless of the trade, which was not a primary factor.

Unfortunately, the Binis did not stop expanding and it was part of what contributed to the decline of the Empire before the Benin-British War of 1897 finally put the nail in the coffin.

The expansion did basically stop after the kingdom was damaged by civil wars.

Dahomey for example was the son of Ogiso in Benin. 'Ogiso' means "King of the Sky" and it was the system of Kingship before its abolition and establishment of the Oba dynasty. Dahomey was banished from the Benin Kingdom and he wandered westwards. Benin Republic President acknowledged the historical tie between the origin of his country and the Binis when he came to see the Oba of Benin some years back.

Could you provide a source for this claim? Like maybe the exact words that the president of Benin Republic said and a source where they were written down? I'm sure Dahomey itself was not of Benin origin, but I would like to know what the then president thought the connection was.

By the way, it is quite correct to state that Benin's control and influence extended into modern Dahomey/Benin Republic (there is actually lots of written evidence for this, although this is not well known), but the actual kingdom of Dahomey itself does not seem to have had an Edo origin.

But the Yorubas will always deny everything even in the face of incontrovertible evidence from independent archeological and historical documents. That's my problem with them. It belies their learning to totally deny or try to rewrite history. On the other hand, the Igbos have been more objective in doing a fairly accurate historical assessment of their relatiohip with Benin. I don't know which section of Igbo, but it is on record that particularly those in Onitsha, do trace their origin to Benin.

There are some Yorubas in Ondo that claim a Benin origin till today and there are Igbo groups in Delta that do the same. I don't think there is really any group that is more inclined to denial of influence by their neighbors or more inclined to denying having connections to their neighbors in Nigeria, whether it is Yoruba, Igbo, Edo, Ijaw, etc. I have read denials and acknowledgements of outside influence from writers and scholars from all of these groups before. There is no one particular group that is more inclined to denials from what I've seen.

emmatok, the Bini were not "highly heterogeneous", unless by "highly" you somehow mean "barely." Also, the Portuguese wrote "Beny" (their spelling and pronunciation of Benin), not "Bini."

*edited back

PhysicsQED: emmatok, the Bini were not "highly heterogeneous", unless by "highly" you somehow mean "barely."

Well `highly' might be an exaggeration.But a tribe with links to major tribes is Too heterogeneous.

We need to differentiate BTW the, EDOs and Binis.

emmatok:

Well highly might be an exaggeration.But a tribe with links to major tribes is Too heterogeneous.

We need to differentiate BTW the, EDO and Bini.

Okay, but whatever the connections are between the Bini and other groups, I don't think they're enough to make us "highly heterogeneous" or even significantly more heterogeneous than those groups around us.

EzeUche__:

Your people would have been crushed by the powerful Aro Confederacy just like many Igbo, Ibibio, Idoma and Ekoi clans found out when they faced us in battle.  Ha!

Here we go tha f.uck again; For your information,mr. Aro supremacist the Arochukwu raid ended at northern Imo because they were besieged and killed in mass as they approached the Nri zone. After they were defeated and humbled most settled among us and was absorbed by the superior Nri culture. Go figure.

Here we go again...

jimtext,

calm down and let me share with you that

1. before it was called Eko, the original Awori name for the place was "Erekusi".

2. Dahomey wanted to posess Lagos and control the salt mines in Mahin. Lagos had been invaded a number of times but Dahomey had yet to dominate it. Fearing the worst, Olofin sought protection from Oyo. Oyo calvary turned down offer to station camp in Lagos because of climate and its impact on their estuaries. Bini responded. When Dahomey showed up the Bini forces beat them back. The alliance between Oba of Bini and Olofin produced gains for both....Bini became a major trader in salt and its presence shielded Lagos from Dahomey occupation. Why didn't Bini occupy and control Mahin and its salt mines? see 3 below.
Bini was persuaded by Idejo Chiefs to prolong stay in Lagos. Except a designated courtyard granted to their prince, Asipa, and as well two shrines (Ado and Idito), any other land occupied by the Binis was on lease. Even till today, the lands on which the courtyards of the Akarigbere and the Abagbon chiefs are built are leased. Erekusi and Eko are similar pronounciations and. i dont know how it ultimately changed to become Eko.

3. Binis did not control the coastlines as you said. Binis were not boat people. The Itsekiris and the Ijebus were boat people and they controlled the coastline from Warri to Mahin. Awori controlled the waters from Lekki all the way to Apa and on to Ilado to Aja. Ijebu was the one in occupation and control of Mahin and salt trade. When Bini joined in, they patrolled the harbours. Ijebu on the other hand tolled the riverines and controlled exchange to Yoruba hinterland, while. Bini mainly traded the salt with the Urhobos and other neighbors further jnland.

4. Bini does not own Lagos. Bini owns the crown and the throne of the Obaship of Lagos. see the following pictures to understand the stream.
The insignia of office is the Abere (sword), which is a tributary of Bini. Notice the akete or ceremonial hat on Oba Oyekan and Oba Ovonramwen.

...

...

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ODUA_NEGRO: Why didn't Bini occupy and control Mahin and its salt mines?

It seems that Benin did, under Oba Orhogbua, occupy Mahin at one point. There are some brief mentions of the Benin occupation in some books.

see Oba Erediauwa's sword and compare with Oba Akiolu's.

I'm not sure who the man in red is in the second picture, but it's not Oba Erediauwa.

PhysicsQED:

It seems that Benin did, under Oba Orhogbua, occupy Mahin at one point. There are some brief mentions of the Benin occupation in some books.

It was under Oba Orhogbua that they settled in Lagos and that would mean that Dahomey had occupied it, successfully drawing tributes, before Bini pushed them out. When did Dahomey occupy Alladah?

I think Dahomey occupied Allada in the 1720s. But what I was saying was that it seems Oba Orhogbua's forces occupied Mahin in addition to sending Bini soldiers to Lagos.

They would have had to fight Ijebu for it. ....unless it was under the control of Itsekiri first before Bini and then Ijebu. Ijebu fought everybody but i dont recall any conflict between Ijebu and Bini or Ijebu and Itsekiri.

Maybe they would have had to fight other groups for control of that area. You might be right. I don't know that much about this interaction between Mahin and Oba Orhogbua's soldiers, I was just pointing out that I had come across references to Benin's occupation of that area while that king was reigning.

.

Too many mis information here,asaba was not derived from bini aisaba,asaba was derived from the igbo word 'ahabagom', meaning i have chosen,the real name of the town is ahaba,asaba is but an anglicized version of ahaba. Nnebisi,the founder of ahaba,unlike ezechima,didn't come from bini.Just thought i should point that one out.

physics,

i see.

on a different note, do you have history on that hat on Oba Ovonramwen? iit has identical symbols with Oba Oyekan's except the latters is elaborate.

There's honestly not much that I know about that hat. I assumed that since the Oba was in Calabar, and some of the royalty there wore hats of European origin or hats which were inspired by European designs back then, that he was going along with the customs of his hosts (the Efik people) when he wore it. But there could be a different explanation. As for the symbols and designs on the hat - I don't know what they represent.

thanks!

I have driven myself crazy over the years trying to find where they came from and what their origin was. These are the only two monarchs in Nigeria that wear it. The Obong doea not wear it, i already probed archives and to see if any of the other coastal or even southern monarchs wear it and came up with zero finds. i was dissapointed that not even Olu of Itsekiri wore one. Like you i figured it had some relevance with portuguese contact,.

I was going over with a cousin on the story of Oshodi. He was. Oba Eshinlokun's diplomat to Portugal. Oba of Lagos had a diplomatic and trde alliance with Portugal before Britain got to the land. I recently discovered. Bini also had a diplomatic and consular exchange with King of Portugal.. I am not sure this is the source of the hat but it is reasonable.

It has a crown, clove or olive leaf and two stars. there is no correlation to. the Lagos Royal Coat of Arms (shown below). Olive leaf and Stars are common symbols of Meditteranean statea, which Portugal is not but Spain is. Was Spain present on our coast back in the days?

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