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The Women Of Allah's Paradise - Religion (3) - Nairaland

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Re: The Women Of Allah's Paradise by sagenaija: 11:23am On Jun 10
mhmsadyq:

You are right. Someone new may be following this conversation.
The "you" is sagenaija and the[b]"We"[/b] is sagenaija and enilove.
Are you happy now?

Delusion is real!

We're seeing here how people can brainwash themselves with a PROPh they've been fed with.

[b]Claim by Moslems
:
All the words of the Koran are direct words of Allah
Enquiry by non-moslem:
So, when Allah speaking in Koran chapter 1 says - 'You alone do we worship...' and then
'Guide us in the straight path' who is Allah referring to?

Answer by Moslem:
According to our scholar 1 and scholar 2 and scholar 3 we are suppose to recite it. It has been given to us to recite.
Question by non-moslem:
Ok, you are supposed to recite it. But where did Allah say there that you are supposed to recite it?

Answer by Moslem:
So you don't understand how we are supposed to recite it. That is the beauty of our Din. It's the only true Din. Just look there you'll see it. If you don't it must be because Allah has misguided you.
Response by non-moslem:
Can't you just show me since you have been rightly guided?

Answer by Moslem:
Why not just accept whatever the believers in Allah say instead of arguing on what you have no knowledge. Don't you know that Islam means 'surrender' your brains and just accept whatever you are told? So, just take it, even if you don't understand.
Response by non-moslem:
But my question has been answered. Who is Allah referring to in that portion of the Koran?

Answer by Moslem:
You have been answered. Allah knows best.

1 Like

Re: The Women Of Allah's Paradise by sagenaija: 11:24am On Jun 10
Rashduct4luv:


I think i will give you my final submission on all these your rantings. The Qur'an takes cognizance of the tradition of the Prophet and that's why Allah says in so many verses " Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger". We obey the messenger by following his traditions.

What are the context of the verses you quoted up there?

Do you think it's just like John 3:16 you guys quote without wanting to know the context, who was talking, who was being spoken to, who witnessed the speech, who wrote it, how reliable are they all, etc?
And Allah swear by any of His creation He wishes to but we swear by Him only.

Good bye!

Your brother Abdul, Empiree, had claimed some time ago that "all the words of the Qur'an are direct words of Allah" unlike the Bible". You seem to be disagreeing with him.

Sometimes one wonders how you guys passed your exams. But it may be that you allow yourselves to be smarter when it comes to your academics than you do your religion.

I gave you the Koran verses in points. I asked that you help us out by taking them one by one. You end up with just a fleeting remark on one of them. And the next thing you'll do is to tell the world 'He has been answered!'.

I take your silence on the others to mean that:,
1. It is the angel telling Mohamed he's not here to watch over their doings, as each man is for himself.
2. The angel (or Mohamed) has been commanded to serve and to bow in Islam to Allah's will.

So, it not only Allah's words we have in the Koran.

On the last one: usually a lesser swears by a higher being or thing. But you are saying
Allah swear by any of His creation....
A greater swearing by the lesser.
That's very interesting!

Cheers!

1 Like

Re: The Women Of Allah's Paradise by mhmsadyq(m): 1:34pm On Jun 10
sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
Delusion is real!

We're seeing here how people can brainwash themselves with a PROPh they've been fed with.

[b]Claim by Moslems
:
All the words of the Koran are direct words of Allah
Enquiry by non-moslem:
So, when Allah speaking in Koran chapter 1 says - 'You alone do we worship...' and then
'Guide us in the straight path' who is Allah referring to?

Answer by Moslem:
According to our scholar 1 and scholar 2 and scholar 3 we are suppose to recite it. It has been given to us to recite.
Question by non-moslem:
Ok, you are supposed to recite it. But where did Allah say there that you are supposed to recite it?

Answer by Moslem:
So you don't understand how we are supposed to recite it. That is the beauty of our Din. It's the only true Din. Just look there you'll see it. If you don't it must be because Allah has misguided you.
Response by non-moslem:
Can't you just show me since you have been rightly guided?

Answer by Moslem:
Why not just accept whatever the believers in Allah say instead of arguing on what you have no knowledge. Don't you know that Islam means 'surrender' your brains and just accept whatever you are told? So, just take it, even if you don't understand.
Response by non-moslem:
But my question has been answered. Who is Allah referring to in that portion of the Koran?

Answer by Moslem:
You have been answered. Allah knows best.

Mtcheeeew.

I guessed you won't be pleased with my answer and i guessed rightly.
Continue...

Anyways, How does these stops me from worshipping Allah?
Re: The Women Of Allah's Paradise by AntiChristian: 12:33pm On Jun 11
sagenaija:

Did you say CONTEXT?
Does the Koran have a context?
What is the exegesis of that portion?

All that you wrote there was your own making. Why do I say this?

According to Islam Allah is the one speaking in the Koran. According to the Koran it makes things clear:
Alif Lam Ra. A Book whose verses are set clear, and then distinguished, from One All-wise, All-aware: S. 11:1

A book that fully and clearly explains everything,

… Shall I seek a judge other than Allah while it is He Who has sent down unto you the Book (The Qur'an), explained in detail… S. 6:114 Hilali-Khan

… And We have sent down on thee the Book making clear everything, and as a guidance and a mercy, and as good tidings to those who surrender. S. 16:89 Arberry

A Book whereof the Verses are explained in detail; A Qur'an in Arabic for people who know S. 41:3 Hilali-Khan

So, tell us where or how
"Allah directed the servant to invoke Him constantly" in that portion (or even elsewhere) since the book (Koran) itself says it makes things clear.

NOTHING in that portion says anything like "Allah instructs you to invoke him like this.....". Not even the usual 'say' is here. Running to 'context' and 'exegesis' is therefore an attempt to reconcile the irreconcilable. Your comments have no support from anywhere in the Koran.

You accuse Matthew of committing grammatical blunder but here you are ignoring the glaring blunder by Allah. You're trying to make amends for him. Didn't he say he makes things clear? Why should it now take the MAGIC of Moslem REINTERPRETATION to explain what should plain?
You have just simply refused to see the obvious. You feel you must defend the indefensible.

Subhanallah! So you still dey here?

The context of the Qur'an is entirely different from that of the Bible. It is evident that someone wrote the Bible in its entirety and God never for once dictate its entire wordings.

But the Qur'an is not so! Allah doesn't need to say invoke me with this verse/Surah! It was Allah speaking!

And when the Angel recited the Qur'an to the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam, he recited it that way!



You claim that

Yet you question when another person does the same. If that is not hypocrisy or folly then tell us the rationale for such stand. Why should this your argument hold true for Allah and you then question it when someone else does the same?

Concerning who wrote Matthew's gospel:
Papias a 1st century writer who, according to early evidence, was acquainted with those who knew the eyewitnesses of Christ and the apostles confirmed the authorship. In the early 2nd century Papias wrote a five book work called The Sayings of the Lord Interpreted otherwise known as An Exposition of the Oracles of the Lord – sections of which were preserved in the work of the 3rd and 4th century church historian Eusebius known as Church History. 

You can see that there is are validations for him as the writer from very early in christendom. The way he wrote was usual for writings of his time.

1. There's a big error when you compare Allah , the mighty and supreme to one "Matthew" whose surname, genealogy, moral and mental ability/capability is unknown. Allah uses I, Allah, We, Us, etc. for Himself. Can Matthew use same too?

2. How well do those people know Matthew? Can they confirm Matthew truly met Jesus? A hadith can be labelled unsound if it is discovered that one of the chain of narrators did not meet the other.

3. A simple google search says: Most scholars believe the gospel was composed between AD 80 and 90, with a range of possibility between AD 70 to 110; a pre-70 date remains a minority view. The work does not identify its author, and the early tradition attributing it to the apostle Matthew is rejected by modern scholars.

4. The book of Matthew was written with evident dependence on the earlier Gospel According to Mark.

Abeg keep your validations and lies to yourself. I need time do better things.

1 Like

Re: The Women Of Allah's Paradise by sagenaija: 4:05pm On Jun 11
AntiChristian:


Subhanallah! So you still dey here?

The context of the Qur'an is entirely different from that of the Bible. It is evident that someone wrote the Bible in its entirety and God never for once dictate its entire wordings.

But the Qur'an is not so! Allah doesn't need to say invoke me with this verse/Surah! It was Allah speaking!

And when the Angel recited the Qur'an to the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam, he recited it that way!



1. There's a big error when you compare Allah , the mighty and supreme to one "Matthew" whose surname, genealogy, moral and mental ability/capability is unknown. Allah uses I, Allah, We, Us, etc. for Himself. Can Matthew use same too?

2. How well do those people know Matthew? Can they confirm Matthew truly met Jesus? A hadith can be labelled unsound if it is discovered that one of the chain of narrators did not meet the other.

3. A simple google search says: Most scholars believe the gospel was composed between AD 80 and 90, with a range of possibility between AD 70 to 110; a pre-70 date remains a minority view. The work does not identify its author, and the early tradition attributing it to the apostle Matthew is rejected by modern scholars.

4. The book of Matthew was written with evident dependence on the earlier Gospel According to Mark.

Abeg keep your validations and lies to yourself. I need time do better things.

I still dey here O!

1. You are questioning the validity of the book of Matthew. I have shown you that early church fathers who have links to the Apostles confirmed this. Yes! They confirm Matthew truly met Jesus. But you still don't want to accept it. So, what can we do?
I will show you some other time a major thing wrong with the chains of narrators in Islam.

God INSPIRED the men who wrote the Bible.
It did not have to be through dictation.

But it is Islam that is not what it seems to be.

2. It is you who has resorted to 'revelation', 'exegesis', 'context' and co just to explain a simple verse of the Koran. You EVADE questions because you know that if you are to truthfully answer them you will see that Islam is not what you thought it is.

First, you state that:
"Allah directed the servant to invoke Him constantly" in that portion (or even elsewhere) since the book (Koran) itself says it makes things clear.
And then you come up with:
"But the Qur'an is not so! Allah doesn't need to say invoke me with this verse/Surah! It was Allah speaking!"

So, just what are you saying?
Is it that Allah specifically asked his slaves to invoke him or that he didn't?
Do you see how you guys confuse yourselves?
This is what happens when truth is not key to you. All you want to do is win an argument at all cost.

Are you saying that Allah can use grammar anyhow he wishes but only the Moslems can 'understand' how he uses them. But when it happens elsewhere in literature then it is wrong. I would consider that a warped thinking.

You admit that it was the angel who recited the Koran to Mohamed.

Even at that, how does that explain the verses we're talking about? The angel never said here to Mohamed 'When you make your prayers open them with these words as follows......' Even if you say that the angel made the prayer as an example to Mohamed, nothing in that portion says so. That will only be your own interpretation, not what the Koran stated. And the Koran sets itself out to be a clear book.

These other examples, which I gave Rashduct4luv and he's been unable to answer, even make things worse:

1. (Koran 6:104)
Now have come to you, from your Lord, proofs (To open your eyes): If any will see, it will be for (the good of) his own soul; If any will be blind, it will be to his own (harm): I am not (here) To watch over your doings.

2. (Koran 27:91)
For me, I have been commanded to serve the Lord of this city, Him Who has sanctified it and to whom (Belong) all things; and I am
commanded to be of those who bow in Islam to Allah's Will

3. (Koran 84:16-19)
I swear by the afterglow of sunset, and by the night, and by the moon when she is at the full.

Is it Allah speaking in these verses?
Is it the angel speaking here?


I hope you will not run away like him but you will take them one by one and answer.

At the end of the day it is clear that either that the Koran is not a book that contains only words of Allah recited via the angel (like you said) or that Allah is a poor communicator. Either way that doesn't make things good for you guys.
Re: The Women Of Allah's Paradise by sagenaija: 7:41am On Jun 12
More Reasons in Support of the Validity of the New Testament

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRZrA97PCRo
Apart from Church Fathers, contemporary writers of the New Testament time made independent statements that agree with the stories of the Scripture.

This video mentions a number of them.

This is lacking in Islam. Outside the Islamic sources no independent contemporary writers relate anything that falls in line with the Standard Islamic Narrative.

In fact, coins and rock inscriptions of the 7th century that Mohamed was supposed to have established Islam tell us a completely different story.

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