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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) (15597 Views)
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Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Denn(m): 7:19pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Boudiccao: Is that too much to ask? Or wars are now waged with Udu drums and trumpets? Please try and understand me. My discourse is that in the 15th century when the Portuguese came around, the only kingdom worthy of such international trade was the Benins. |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Ariani: 7:20pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: Nope, bight of Benin never encompassed bight of Biafra, they were all independent bights. Igbos have always been travellers. We have Igbos who travelled far deep into Edo territories coming back with tales of civil wars in Edo land between Oba and the Edo rebels, as reason for their coming back. Many of us amusely saw the story as fairy tales and hence , "Akuko Oba n'Idu" became a way of saying fairy tales in Igboland. When I was small and my grandfather would send me on errand. He would tell me: hold the money well o! I don't want you to come back telling me the stories of Oba and Idu, ie Akuko Idu n'Oba". It was a story of jest. We didn't understand how a single fat man should be ruling an entire people. Igbos who never left Igboland found it hard to believe that a group of people would accept to be ruled by a single man who dictates for them. Hence they saw the stories as fairy tales. Traded fire! All your bronze work were made from bronze you acquired from the Portuguese in exchange for slaves. Bini had no Bronze or even iron ore sites. In Igboland we have Lejja Iron site that is 5000years old. Long before the first Bini man from Igodomigodo was civilized by the Yoruba torch bearers who came from Ife to civilized you lots and establish the Oba dynasty while overthrowing the Ogiemein, the descendants of Ogiso dynasty, Ndiigbo were already in Bronze age. Reno is an empty Head. 12 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Boudiccao: 7:21pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: I don't know why you are going on and on. Igbos started Bronze smithing before any group in Nigeria and the facts are out there for you to verify while Yoruba and Benin started much later. You hate to see it. You Nigerians have been brainwashed to believe only those that had a kingdom had civilizations when it is on record that Igbos are the first Bronze smiters and oldest civilization in Nigeria. 7 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Boudiccao: 7:24pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: Igbos made Bronze works centuries before others. You should read not ask. Igbo civilization predate that 15th century nonesense you keep spewing and were already conducting long distance trades and in possession of Asian and North goods yet to be found in other parts of Southern Nigeria. Of course, Europeans first met Bini that live close to the sea and will naturally trade with them. Igbos live in the hinterland. 6 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by IDENNAA(m): 7:27pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Walkee: List Esan and Bini people with such name anytime in history.... I am waiting And , yes , Osadebe is NOT a Benin or Esan name. Again , list Bini and Esan people with such name. I will split that your dense brain today. You use Osanobua we use Olisebuluwa. Dennis Chukude Osadebay (29 June 1911—26 December 1994) was a Nigerian politician, poet, journalist and former premier of the now defunct Mid-Western Region of Nigeria, which now comprises Edo and Delta State. He was one of the pioneering Nigerian poets who wrote in English. 6 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Denn(m): 7:41pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Boudiccao: The existence of pre-historic people in present day Igbo land does make them Igbos. Even the people in Leggie and Igbo-Ukwu cannot trace a direct tradecraft lineage to the pre historic peoples who once lived there. If the whole of USA inhabitants died today and a group of people moved there after 500 years, will we say the new group had the same american technological progress? My question is, and i believe a lot can learn from it is this....What weapons were in use by the Igbos who lived in present day Igbo land in the 15th century when the Benin were raiding villages for slaves with modern war gear? Please back the answer with verifiable evidence? Now that you infer that the Igbos were civilised as at 15th century and traded with people in Asia at that period, can you please assist us with reliable sources to back such claims? How did the asians ship the goods? Which goods? Which Asians? Which currency? Please no insults. Thanks 2 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by IDENNAA(m): 7:45pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: Igboukwu bronze made by Igbo blacksmiths are the oldest and most sophisticated artworks found in Nigeria. You people thought because we didnt allow one greedy overfes man rule over us we didnt make great inventions. You love monarchy and having one man call the short for you while we want everybody's opinion. We are Igbo !! 9 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by BiafIntel: 7:46pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Walkee:What is this? 7 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by IDENNAA(m): 7:46pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: LMAO; the bronze made by the Igbo Ukwu artists bears Nri themes. Facial scarification like ichi and burial styles of Nri. Next 10 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by IDENNAA(m): 7:54pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: The artefacts had been buried for a thousand years, and their memory largely erased; so of course their discovery would come as a bit of surprise. But the interesting thing here is that when the anthropologist, Onwuejeogwu, showed pictures of these bronzes to illiterate elders at Agukwu, they were able to identify 90% of them and also told the anthropologists the uses of 85% of them. They wouldn't have been able to do that if the works were not of the same cultural paradigm as the historic Nri. If I took the same pictures to Ife and showed it to Ife elders, would they be able to tell me what 85% of them were used for in a ritual context? Cc. Denn Credit to Ajaana Oka. 7 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Denn(m): 7:57pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
IDENNAA: Igbo-Ukwu artefacts have their dating challenged as some of the artefacts have very history-recent items and even contain manillas and beads which every historian knows came with the Europeans in the 15th century. for further reading; The Journal of African History , Volume 14 , Issue 1 , January 1973 , pp. 1 - 8 1 Like |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Boudiccao: 8:00pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: You are wrong. I can see you are desperately trying to convince yourself and other bigots like you that Igbos have no civilization and that Benin had the oldest civilizations in Nigeria. Dead on arrival. You cannot mention the civilization of Nigeria without first mentioning Igbo civilization. It must be hard for you. The Lejja, Opi and Igboukwu sites are all connected to the Igbos because the techniques used in the sites where still practiced by the Igbos. The Igboukwu artifacts for example capture the cultural legacy of the Igbos that lived in that area, most of the artifacts are cultural symbols used for religious rituals and represented the culture of the Igbos. On the faces of the bronze works are the Ichi scarification practiced by the Igbos found in that area. The other goods found there and not found elsewhere proves that it exclusively belonged to the Igbos and created by Igbos. Some of the other goods found there are foreign and a testament to the fact that Igbos were involved in long distance trading before You Nigerians became conscious. Quit the obsession,it is making you look better. In your twisted head, it was Benin that had a civilization and never Igbos. Igbos were smithing Bronze long before Bini and Yoruba that started in the 13th century and still have the audacity to ask for what Igbos were doing in the 15th century just because that was when the white people met Benin. LMAO. 6 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by KosiGee(m): 8:02pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
I tried watching this conversation or discourse but it was hard to watch. Uche Chuta was really making me angry. Dude was all over the place, incoherent, restless and impatient. He made it possible for Reno to keep reiterating his opinion that Igbos are very sensitive. Mister Reno, I’m sure you are reading this...Uche is not a true representation of an average Igbo man. I’m not sure why he decided to do this but I’m disappointed. He didn’t know the history of slavery in Nigeria. If you are going to confront someone on a live video, at least know the basics of the topic you are going to discuss. He was stammering and not articulate. Reno was being dishonest and mischievous as well. It was easy for him to generalise and mention Igbos as slave but sensitive about mentioning the name of the particular tribe or group of people that settled about his place. It would be disrespectful to mention them but not offensive to the generality of Igbo people. The Benin empire raided Igbo towns according to Reno because those towns and clans were easy targets due to Igbos not having a kingdom or central authority. I think he should have mentioned the areas which the Oba and his soldiers raided. Reno isn’t being a true historian if his documentary is affected by personal bias and sentiments. Perhaps an expose on how the Oba crosses the Niger in his mighty boats/ships made by his excellent engineers, raided towns then went back to Benin would’ve been more convincing...but no he didn’t do that, According to Reno, raiding of Igbos were possible because of no central government and the Osu caste system. He doesn’t know what he is talking about if he neglected the main source of the trade in Igbo land. Reno has some mischief in him or he had been misled by his own arrogance. Story is as good as they person telling it. Would the oba welcome a carving of so called Igbo enemies killing his men? Who verified the carvings and the authenticity of the story behind the wars? The moat as well were built by Igbo slaves!! Meaning that Benin empire fought against and captured only Igbo slaves!. Oba came from Benin, came down all the all the way to Alaigbo, raided towns, collected slaves, crossed the river and transported these people back to Benin! Reno, if Oba raided some towns around him, or fought against the people, please educate us. I want to learn and I would like to have a face to face discussion with him. I have lots of questions to ask.... 5 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Denn(m): 8:03pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
IDENNAA: Very good. If the bronze bears similarities to the culture of the new-to-area Nri Igbos, don't you think this implies that the bronze were recent too? If you dig a site and see Iphone 12 located among the items, won't someone from our era be able to identify it? Can we say the same Iphone 12 was relevant to people who died 200 years ago or more related to people who lived in 2020? |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Boudiccao: 8:05pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: Igboukwu is dated 9th century AD and the beads are from Egypt and Venice. Igbos have embarked on long distance trade. Europeans brought Coral beads to Benin but the beads in Igboukwu are older, pre Portuguese and are linked to Egypt. Igboukwu has no business with whatever you were doing with Europeans. Igbos are your masters when it comes to civilization. 9 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Denn(m): 8:06pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Boudiccao: Can you have a conversation without being rude or insulting? Can you push your ideas forward without disrespecting the other party? Why must you sound this way? now back to the conversation, I have tried to answer your observations in my recent responses to Idennaa 1 Like |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by IDENNAA(m): 8:07pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: The carbon-dating of the artifacts shows they were hundreds of years older than Ife and Bini works. At a point in history some Igbo group smelted iron but the trade was abandoned when the trade became unprofitable. The themes of the metal works bears Nri-Awka traditions. 7 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Boudiccao: 8:08pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: You are beginning to confuse yourself because of your desperation. Nri is an ancient group and the Bronze works they made are equally older than whatever is found in Benin. You are saying if the Bronze works belong to the modern Nri, yes! Because it has been proven to be theirs. Just like the latter Bini works belong to modern Bini people. 4 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by IDENNAA(m): 8:09pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Boudiccao: The beads uses by the Igbo and Igala are distinct stone- based found in the bed of Omanbala River. Previously, we didnt use coral beads. Igbo is very ancient. 7 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Denn(m): 8:11pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Boudiccao: Please read "Dating Problems at Igbo Ukwu" which was published by Cambridge University Press in 2009. The 9th century source was published in 1959 By Shaw and don't forget the manilla. How did manilla get there before the europeans? |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Boudiccao: 8:13pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: Because you questions are illogical and come from a place of bile and desperate to prove Igbos had no civilizations and only Benin did. You Benin dey learn work. 6 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Walkee: 8:13pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
BiafIntel:did you actually think that Brits who were not up to 200 magically manufactured soldiers numbering over 3,000 to complete the conquest? It was done by Africans from the south African protectorate down to the Niger deltas. Britain have never won a real war on their own |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Denn(m): 8:20pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Boudiccao: You obviously did not read where i said am not Benin. I am not from a place of bile. Actually, there is a Domino's joint with Coldstone not far from where i am typing this and believe me, Coldstone Ice-cream does not taste like bile. Why must where we come from matter when facts are being discussed? As at this moment, my questions remain unanswered. Which Asian kingdoms were the Igbos trading with in ancient periods? What weapons were the Igbos using in the 15th century? 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Boudiccao: 8:22pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: That's what I am telling him. The beads found in Igboukwu have only been found in Igboukwu and predate the coral beads Europeans brought to Benin. 3 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by IDENNAA(m): 8:25pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Boudiccao: They thought only them had civilization because of the way Bini has been overhyped. The absence of a centralized kingdom doesn't mean the people aren't creative. We simply don't like power to belong to only one man....na God ? When Okoli Ijeoma of Ndikelionwu was raiding Nri-Awka area , after Eze Nri warning fell on deaf ears , a group of army was assembled and called Amakom. These men unleashed bloodbath on the Aro slave raiders and they never ventured that way.....lol 6 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Denn(m): 8:25pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Boudiccao: Lets start from a position of facts. You claim the Ukwu artefacts were dated to the 9th century Manillas were found among the artefacts. The Europeans brought Manilla in the 15th Century How did European manillas of the 15th century get teleported back to the 9th century? facts 3 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Boudiccao: 8:37pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: You really want to assume Igbos the great Blacksmiths of Nigerians don't 't make weapons in order to hold on to your preconceived notions that Benin invaded Igbo people then go ahead. Tie-in igbo civilization back to the 15th century because Europeans met Benin in that period is preposterous and shows exactly what side you on. I really don't care about where you come from but right from your first post where you exalted Benin and berated Igbos is a proof that you are bigot. The way you are nitpicking everything I have debunked in a bid to show Igbos have no civilization is ridiculous. For you, Benin has the oldest civilization and Igbos don't , when ironically the archeogical and historical world have all acknowledged that Igbos have the oldest civilizations in West Africa and Nigeria. The beads come from Egypt, whichever they came to Igbos is what scholars need to answer. The general Consensus is that Igbos had a long trading network. 5 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by IDENNAA(m): 8:39pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: How did tiny Bini become an "empire ? " What made you an empire. Archeologists did the carbon testing not my Igbo village. Some of the metal works may have been made in 15th century which is actually 1400s 3 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Boudiccao: 8:44pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
Denn: Scholars insist the origin of Manillas in West Africa must first be studied and clarified before going back to the manilla found in Igboukwu. 1 Like |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Boudiccao: 8:46pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
IDENNAA: Britian and Europeans are generally obsessed with kingdoms and kingship that is why they couldn't understand the Igbos and had to fight them for the longest while other tribes with the so called kingship capitulated in 6 months. 2 Likes |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Boudiccao: 8:54pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
IDENNAA: The oldest works was made in 9th century AD and if there were others made after then, it doesn't erase the fact that Igbos had that civilizations on lock down before others dreamt of doing same. |
Re: Igbo Vs Bini: Reno Omokri Destroys Uche Chuta In A Public Debate (VIDEO) by Denn(m): 9:01pm On Jul 23, 2021 |
IDENNAA: Benin became an empire when Oba Ewuare became king, amassed an army and started taking over territories around 1440. He was the first of the 5 warrior kings. His son, Oba Ozolua was believed to have won 200 battles. It was Oba Orhogbua that stretched his empire beyond the River Niger in the east and Ghana to the west. Trade with the Portuguese expanded their wealth and might and funded the expeditions. (SOURCE: BBC website) The manilla bronzes were brought in by the Portuguese merchants and would have found their way to Igbo land possibly via commerce long after Benin started accepting manilla, not before. |
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