Ovamboland:


All those projects had been progressed very far by the Shagari administration. It was good of IBB to complete some of them. He started itakpe warri railway in 1987, failed to finish it, but 5 governments came after had did not even look at it until now.

First of all, you lie!! Third mainland bridge, shiroro dam and port Harcourt 2 were all started and completed by IBB.
Secondly, Warri Itakpe was meant to service Ajokuta whose development Buhari truncated. You can ask yourself what benefit the rehabilitation has brought now. If ajaokuta is not working, that rail is as good as useless. So the reason why successive govts abandoned it was because it's a service rail not passenger rail as is being attempted now.
Thirdly, so many of the so-called "massive infrastructure" of your god were already planned or put in motion by previous admins too. So find something else to say.

lexy2014:


No probs. Nothing much I was only wondering how infrastructure can build and maintain itself if d people aren't developed in their minds. Money is good, but money will always continue to be a problem when what is available isn't well utilised

All we are seeing today is an attempt to provide the basic minimum infrastructure to reflate and stimulate the economy against our future earning plans.
You can all see the huge increase in VAT collections, duty and CIT from companies also just witnessed a jump by as much as 40%.

That is means to repay the loans loading for you. The govt need not bother much about noise makers who don't know the benefits of infrastructure and see it as another monument to take pictures. Smart guys are snapping up real estate where infrastructure springs up planning residential and industrial estates.

Ovamboland:


Nigerian private companies now build infrastructure starting with roads via tax credit policy.
Dangote, MTN, Flour mills are already on to this. Find out more if interested

Seems u didn't understand d question. Pls try again: how did d private sector in DEVELOPED countries qualify to build infrastructure?

Ovamboland:


All we are seeing today is an attempt to provide the basic minimum infrastructure to reflate and stimulate the economy against our future earning plans.
You can all see the huge increase in VAT collections, duty and CIT from companies also just witnessed a jump by as much as 40%.

That is means to repay the loans loading for you. The govt need not bother much about noise makers who don't know the benefits of infrastructure and see it as another monument to take pictures. Smart guys are snapping up real estate where infrastructure springs up planning residential and industrial estates.

Not sure u talking to me. I don't see d correlation with what u said and d comment I made: Nothing much I was only wondering how infrastructure can build and maintain itself if d people aren't developed in their minds. Money is good, but money will always continue to be a problem when what is available isn't well utilised

stanluiz:
Infrastructure is good! Yes! But you need to invest in Education and SME because they are the ones that will build the infrastructure.

Infrastructure will not fall From the sky. Even Electricity, Road Contractors, Engineer are all products for Education and SME.

Some are Saying America but they forget that America first invested massively on the people by providing quality education and also give Loans to SME.

Human development Capital is the best investment a Nation can invest. If you didn't have educated and Skilled people how will they build the infrastructure ?

Look at the north for Example . Upon all the infrastructure buhari is building yet Boko Haram, Banditry and other forms of Insecurity is ravaging the region because The Northern Elites failed to Invest In Education.

Investing in Education and SmE will lead to infrastructure revolution. Education and SMS will give birth to Infrastructure.

At the time America built it's coast to coast railway connection they had far less percentage of their population possessing graduate degree than Nigeria has today. Why has the Nigeria graduates not build railway till now? Many complex issues involved, cultural, environment, geography.

However note that that railway was not built by American govt neither were the first power plant. The first power plant was conceived and built by an American who did not go to school Thomas Edison.

When did America have it's first national education policy? And how did they even invest in education in the 1800's they started building infrastructure themselves beyond what you feel?

stanluiz:
Infrastructure is good! Yes! But you need to invest in Education and SME because they are the ones that will build the infrastructure.

Infrastructure will not fall From the sky. Even Electricity, Road Contractors, Engineer are all products for Education and SME.

Some are Saying America but they forget that America first invested massively on the people by providing quality education and also give Loans to SME.

Human development Capital is the best investment a Nation can invest. If you didn't have educated and Skilled people how will they build the infrastructure ?

Look at the north for Example . Upon all the infrastructure buhari is building yet Boko Haram, Banditry and other forms of Insecurity is ravaging the region because The Northern Elites failed to Invest In Education.

Investing in Education and SmE will lead to infrastructure revolution. Education and SMS will give birth to Infrastructure.

Go and find out the high level of violence, banditry, kidnapping and wars the developed countries had to endure even after building infrastructure by themselves.

If you allude to a false cause, the effects will also be mistaken

effort1:


So, you are now competing with the past government in failure?

What a shame!

Of course you benchmark the past with the present to see if we are making progress.

The past and present govt operate under similar condition and environment and will always be the first benchmark.

That's why GDP growth for example is based on where your country was last year or 10 years ago, not on where the next country was.

udele1:


Where did America get money for infrastructure?

How did America rack up $20 trillion debt if they didn't borrow? Do you know how much they are owing Saudi, Norway and China?

udele1:


The countries we borrow from, where did they get to build theirs?

China that financed our $3.5bn projects is owing $2.4 trillion, say another thing.

udele1:


How much does twitter and Facebook generate from Nigeria?

Did they get here by road? Microsoft was created in a garage. Just computer, no road. America is wealthy today because or the people they invested in.

Those companies grew and are paying tax.

The road to from kaduna to Abuja is smooth, but people are scared to travel on that road, because of bandits.

Is it lack of infrastructure that created the bandits?

If those bandits had good education and were given grants after school, would they be bandits?

Its people that make a country and not q country that makes people.

Even the infrastructure you are talking about, isn't it education that enabled the manufacturers of those equipment used to build roads?

The tractors, caterpillar etc .

Evans too started kidnapping because we did not educate him? And all armed robbers, drug dealer and fraudster are in that business because we did not open schools for them?

Remove all the roads in America and tell me if Bill gates garage will exist in that location. You mean Microsoft would have sold out if Bill gates arrived when Indians were still chasing Bisons all over American prairie?

udele1:


Focusing on infrastructure is like eating all your corn. Investing in people is like planting corn.

If you eat your corn it is finished. If you take seeds from it and plant, you continue having more corn.

This is where America gets money.

The same individual income tax Nigerians say must never be collected? The same one only 13% of workers are bothered to be registered?
Open a thread on the need to collect income tax to invest in education and infrastructure and see how many will support you or come for your head.

I strongly believe there's no way out apart from wider tax net. Wider tax base will make us more eligible for large loan in $100bns as we posses better ability to pay back. not kobo kobo $2-3bn loans many are still crying about.

You believe all kinds of stupid things . All opinion , ignorant opinionated rubbish with no substance
The tragic part is you probably also believe you are some kind of intellectual

aribisala0:


No it is not just fiat

There is nothing wrong in borrowing to build infrastructure

The point is ... is the capacity to borrow unlimited?

If you are borrowing in your currency and there is no hyperinflation then your economy can carry the debt

Lenders are not stupid ? There is a COST of borrowing
What is the interest rate in Nigeria today compared to the US

If you decide to borrow at a rate where over 70% of revenue goes into servicing debt is that sustainable

Yes I would be the first so say we MUST borrow but borrowing must be responsible
If we are borrowing at current rates we must star to cut down things like subsidy and the cost of maintaining politicians and other areas of waste. We must pay more tax and be more efficient in generating revenue. Too much of government revenue is stolen


Finally what we are borrowing for must be distributed according to ECONOMIC considerations and not POLITICAL ones like federal character etc
There is an attempt at forced equalization when the reality is if borrowing was rational most of the infrastructure would be in the South

The bulk of the infrastructure is going to the North and the bulk of the payment will come from the South how sensible is that

In all of this there is still

NO COHERENT STRATEGY FOR POWER

You keep betraying your bigotry and ethnic irredentism at every turn.

Are you saying the southern presidents of the last 20 years did not bother about infrastructure or only invested in the north? Lagos Ibadan and second Niger bridge, two of the costliest projects in the past 5 years are not even located in the so-called north.

What is even wrong in linking areas of production with areas of consumption so we can exchange goods and services more freely and efficiently? Why has it not been done decades before now and why is it wrong to do it now?

Tax collection and efficient governance cost is an eternal problem not peculiar to Nigeria or a particular govt. They are not arguments to support non investment in infrastructure.

Infrastructure investment must continue and cannot end with this administration.

If we invest $2 trillion in infrastructure in the next 10 years it's not too much and will not end our quest or needs. See so much distress mere $20bn is causing people who don't like seeing success.

aribisala0:
Do they borrow in any other currency but their own?

In what currency is China, Brazil, South Africa, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Russia, India, Thailand and other emerging countries borrow in? Only in their own currency?
Or I don't understand what all these emphasis on currency is about like we don't understand the world financial system as it exists today.

Are we investing even at the Buhari rate causing you so much distress up to those countries in infrastructure every year?

aribisala0:
Just as it is good to invest in infrastructure not all infrastructure are productive economically. Some infrastructure are totally wasteful and this is the case mostly in the North

If the government were to invest in the housing sector by providing Mortgage with long term credit that would stimulate the economy and create jobs . They should squeeze Dangote to lower cement prices. Those people buying the houses will pay gradually

That is more productive that the Kaduna Abuja rail project

They should focus on Power and stop chasing shadows

Why did the previous govt that did not invest much in infrastructure not invest in mortgage housing when they had power? What did they invest in education and healthcare? What exactly did they spend the income of the first 16 years of democracy doing?

This govt has chosen their focus and no matter what happens afterwards any govt that comes in will depend a great deal on the infrastructure you so much hate and disparage to drive their programs and any meaningful economic diversification plans.

Even the nationwide housing projects you tout will not happen without better infrastructure, the opposition know this, you know this, but they need to harvest the emotions and votes of idiots who don't know this.

udele1:


After the pandemic in US, why didnt the government build more infrastructure to revive the economy? Why were they paying citizens and business owners?

What did Nigerians get with the infrastructure?

So you're expecting free checks from an economy that is well known to be unproductive? Or from oil money that is worth about 30-40 cents daily per Nigerian? Or you want Nigeria govt to get loan you hate so much and hand it over to you?

Can you tell me how much check you expect as your fair share, I want to find out how much of reality you understand.

udele1:


After the pandemic in US, why didnt the government build more infrastructure to revive the economy? Why were they paying citizens and business owners?

What did Nigerians get with the infrastructure?

So you're expecting free checks from an economy that is well known to be unproductive? Or from oil money that is worth about 30-40 cents daily per Nigerian? Or you want Nigeria govt to get loan you hate so much and hand it over to you?

Can you tell me how much check you expect as your fair share, I want to find out how much of reality you understand.

And even before pandemic why did Trump promise to rebuild infrastructure which he failed to do because of his narcissist nature?
And after the pandemic why did Biden get congress to approve $1 trillion for infrastructure investment? You think it's all for fun or after completion will be mere monument good for mere taking pictures on occasional visit.

Go and find out usage and importance of railway to development of mining industry. You people like those who will share PowerPoint presentation and hold seminar on their plans to diversify the economy but will take no single real and practical steps to actualize their plans.

At least one of the railway system is directly linked to a major mine, the moribund Itakpe iron ore mine and beneficiation plant with capacity up to 5m tons a year. That's an addition of $1.2bn to our GDP before value added of conversion to steel in Ajaokuta.

This investment alone can grow our GDP by up to 1% by unlocking abandoned and moribund assets but people are here telling us it's feel good, it's me too project, we should wait for 20 years to learn railway before we have one and other jargons.

These same people can't point to anything else that can sure give this type of growth but they are the loudest at condemning every step.

Zenithpeak:


The Bible says: Cast not your Pearl to the SWINES for after they've casted it to mud, they will turn around and rent you.

It is an effort in futility to engage an unintelligent and uncivilized zombie like you in any form argument.... It can only lead to decapitation of one's integrity.

Imagine a dirty destitute and a scavenger like you gallivanting all over Nairaland calling people names all over the place.

Errant zombie.....

The discussion here is over the top of your head, zombie like you are just talking because your puppet master has spoken and you're bound to follow

aribisala0:
Who are
you people

To listen to you one would think you love Nigeria more than anyone or that infrastructure is a new religion

The point is a simple one spending must be balanced and "infrastructure" must have a point the fact that you spend $10 billion on concrete and steel does not mean it is the right infrastructure . Not all projects are sensible

If it was that easy to raise revenue why has it not happened

Did anyone suggest stopping investing?

There is a different between waste and investment
a lot of money was wasted in Abuja by IBB if that was an investment where are the returns

The big elephant in the room is WHERE IS THE POWER??
That is the number one priority not rail to Niger republic
Or an Army University in Borno
Is there any government that has said " we don't believe in infrastructure" ? So why now make it a religion

The truth is the impact is not felt and the contracts appear bogus and inflated

What one infrastructure project of this government has made the most impact in our lives

Previous governments built Ikeja Airport, Kainji Dam , Egbin Thermal Plant and the 1st Niger bridge , Lagos Ibadan Expressway

What one project can this government boast of?

Just one?

Has this government deliberately reduced our rate of investment in education and SME over the past 30 years? Why did previous govt from Obi block not increased investment in those areas when they had the chance.

This govt has infrastructure investment in it's 3 cardinal program and it is succeeding in those areas as you acknowledge here, only you feel infrastructure should not be the major focus.

While increase in financing education is desireasble and necessary, I must say it's already happening albeit at a slower rate to my satisfaction. Allusions to location of Army school or whatever are appeal to bigotry and ethnic chauvinism which doesn't sit well with me.

You can locate the school in kutuwenji or Kaura namoda, the people intent on getting knowledge will find it, if we can spend money in Ghana or Europe searching for knowledge those places are in Nigeria and is good enough for me. Just as any northerner searching for knowledge in petroleum or seafaring will go to PTI or maritime university.

You contradict yourself after 7 pages of comments if you're still asking me to list what infrastructure projects you yourself claim is too much focus by this administration.

shadeyinka:

Once we have a good transportation system, water and electricity, economic prosperity is automatic!

SMH!

Myopic Reasoning!

No it not just automatic, it's will even happen before the infrastructure is completed and put to use as you and your ilk are asking for evidence of the impact on employment and productivity as at today.

Ovamboland:


No it not just automatic, it's will even happen before the infrastructure is completed and put to use as you and your ilk are asking for evidence of the impact on employment and productivity as at today.

If development is not automatic with provision of infrastructure, why the argument?

mrvitalis:

,50 % of that bill is wage Bill and uk is already a developed nation so is allowed to do this

So £100bn project is for fun and useless and UK is doing it because they are developed?
Who did this to you?

Is this what opposition is all about? Just saying things that are unreal?

mrvitalis:

Train system that can never make profit

Rail is not merely about profit but to stimulate housing, and industrial estates and reduce cost doing business.

That's why most rail projects are undertaken by government in USA, UK and even in emerging markets like India, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia etc.

NGpatriot:



It's never about what you spend on roads or when and how to break even, the massive and economic impact are always free and fast movement of goods and services, increase in manpower productivity and facilitating trade and economic access to underserved communities, this is the growth they are talking about, not what you spent on any particular roads.

The developed Nations borrowed and are still boring to spend on infrastructures, but sadly in Nigeria, the thinking is always backward and primitive.

You then destroyed your own already warped argument about trade, factories and manufacturing?

The question now is, how do you effective;ly get your products, good,s and services to the markets and the end-users? You do so by transporting them on bad and unusable roads where your goods spend countless hours on bad roads, get in accidents or just perish before getting to the market?

You see how pointless and void you sound?

How glad I'm that people like you are not in charge of this country because for one vacuous reason or the other, you won't hesitate to let the country rot and decay based on ignorant, flawed and baseless reasons.

Thank you very much, apt and straight to the point.

Thanks for helping to lessen the impact of the poison they are trying to spread to unsuspecting members of the public.

Ovamboland:


Rail is not merely about profit but to stimulate housing, and industrial estates and reduce cost doing business.

That's why most rail projects are undertaken by government in USA, UK and even in emerging markets like India, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia etc.

Speed rail ? Hope u know speed rails are almost as expensive as plains ?

Agboriotejoye:

Where did you see me saying they should not build infrastructure.
Is English disturbing you?
Femi claimed some people institutionalised corruption and I said same people did far better than Buhari could ever do in terms of infrastructure.
As everyone knows, infrastructure can be a good conduit for corruption. A good example is Bida-Abuja road which has been awarded twice by this admin but has become an abandoned project.
What I'm pointing out is the infrastructure noise is just noise. There's nothing that is special going on better than previous govts. I stand to be corrected with facts though

Except you're on the wrong thread, the discussion here is about how appropriate is the heavy emphasis on infrastructure to the extent of taking loans to achieve it rather than education and SME.

Any other discussion outside the above is otiose and attempt to obfuscate.

Ovamboland:


So £100bn project is for fun and useless and UK is doing it because they are developed?
Who did this to you?

Is this what opposition is all about? Just saying things that are unreal?

For a uk economy millions of people are Able to pay a high enough tickets for it to make profit

What's the price of train tickets in UK

How much is bus Lagos to Ibadan , how much is the train ,even at that low price which is still higher than bus ...how many people can afford the train

So the rail now would now be used to transport wheat and Petro products ?

Agboriotejoye:

I already did.

Check my post.



And there's even more

IBB did not start any of those projects, check the contract award dates and progress before August 1985.

The movement to Abuja was at a time many things were not ready including accomodation for civil servants. It appears the hasty move was a response to the Orkar coup of 1990.

But yes he completed and commissioned Shiroro dam and PH refinery

Agboriotejoye:

This is what you people that support govt suffer from. Intellectual deficit. First of all, the bridge in question is 1.5km. So stop hyping it like it's a mega project.
Secondly it is being paid for jointly by Nigeria and Cameroon through a loan from AfdB.
Can you compare that with the Niger rail which goes 25km into Niger and has a cost of $3.9bn taking into account the present trade volume and even trade potential between both countries and even security aspect.

Nigeria has some benefits to derive from Niger rail projects in terms of adding to the level of utilization of the Lagos Kano rail.
The total project sum is $1.9bn not $3.9bn, and total length of 387km with only about 25km inside Niger republic territory. Meaning the cost of each kilometer is $5m, 5km of railway will cost additional $25m to a Lagos -ibadan -Kano -jibia rail that will cost about $10,000m.
But many of you are focused on this $25m extra investment that can potentially earn Nigeria $70-100m annually in Port and rail transport charges. That can only be because you focus too much on the ethnic and religious aspect than real economics.

Who do you think will be most eager to get this project completed so we can snatch the market from Cotonou port? And do you think extra $25m is too steep a price to pay for potential yearly earnings of $70-100m?

Now for the Cameroon bridge while I wholeheartedly support such venture, I only used it to highlight the bigotry not economics driving opposition to the Niger rail projects. I know of hundreds of Nigerian communities that would be eternally grateful to get the mere 1.5km bridge but lost out priority to the investment in Cameroon bridge. We could have told AFDB we're not interested in the loan for that bridge but only for any purely Nigerian community. I want to believe there are some strategic reasons, maybe not just economics for the Cameroon bridge that made it a priority.

aribisala0:

You are ignorant and determined to be abusive
Am I Cameroonian? Did you just learn the word bigot and want to practice it?
Why should I like Cameroon more than Niger? Clearly YOU are the bigot for making assumptions about me

The Nigeria-Cameroon bridge is funded by the African Development Bank, Japan and Europe with some funding from Cameroon and Nigeria . Is Niger contributing a penny to the project?
What is bigoted about pointing out the obvious
IS NIGERIA SPENDING A PENNY INSIDE CAMEROON
It is not repeat NOT a project of this regime.
It was conceived and agreed under the Obasanjo government as a peace maintaining effort following the ceding of Bakassi
The two schemes are totally different in too many ways
If you have nothing sensible to contribute keep quiet

It's not a Nigeria project but some funding from Nigeria with a bank loan, who and who is responsible for paying back the loan? Why should Nigeria commit to such project when many Nigerian community are languishing and yearning for dinner such a bridge? Is that not similar to your anger against Niger rail? See above for my comments on the Niger rail.

So you know so much about the history of Cameroon bridge that it's not about Buhari but you're not aware the Niger rail is part of a master plan of ECOWAS rail plan of almost 2 decades some take delight in talking about but lacked courage to execute?

But you also think Niger railway is about Buhari cousins in Niger republic and they are Fulani Hausa and Muslims? No?

Or what exactly is your reason for opposing it in 2021 and not in 2013 when Jonathan was talking about doing it?

Ovamboland:


IBB did not start any of those projects, check the contract award dates and progress before August 1985.

The movement to Abuja was at a time many things were not ready including accomodation for civil servants. It appears the hasty move was a response to the Orkar coup of 1990.

But yes he completed and commissioned Shiroro dam and PH refinery

Well, Buhari did not start any of those projects too.

So you can now take a big rest.

The fact remains whichever way you choose to look at it that IBB did far better than Buhari in terms of infrastructure