freshboi88:

All these are pointers God has shown u to reveal who Jesus truly is. You say Jesus is not God....so how does he have the capability to do everything Jehovah can do ?

Of course Jesus is God in the manner of Moses who was also God {Exodus 7:1} but when Jesus is talking we need thorough meditation to get the sense of each of his statement because if he can do everything Jehovah can do then he need not wait for orders from JEHOVAH!

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies! Psalms 110:1-2

JEHOVAH is the one issuing the orders while Jesus is the one taking orders, this wouldn't make any sense if Jesus can do everything Jehovah can do. Surely he needs not wait for orders from JEHOVAH! John 8:28

MaxInDHouse:


Of course Jesus is God in the manner of Moses who was also God {Exodus 7:1} but when Jesus is talking we need thorough meditation to get the sense of each of his statement because if he can do everything Jehovah can do then he need not wait for orders from JEHOVAH!

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies! Psalms 110:1-2

JEHOVAH is the one issuing the orders while Jesus is the one taking orders, this wouldn't make any sense if Jesus can do everything Jehovah can do. Surely he needs not wait for orders from JEHOVAH! John 8:28

So when your boss issues u orders in the office, it makes him more human than u.....MuMu

MaxInDHouse:

Mark 12:29-30
John 14:28
John 20:17

With these three verses Jesus meant there's something the father doesn't share with him or anyone else {Isaiah 42:8} please can you say that single thing that makes the father differ from the son?
In my own conclusion i think it's the WORSHIP because Jesus often emphasize the greatness of his father and how to worship his father but the father alone seems to be the one and only PERSON in the receiving end:

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under, him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under, him, that God may be all in all! 1Corinthians 15:27-28

Something is missing in all of these and i think it's the WORSHIP that makes the difference between the Father and his Son!

false jw mad max

of course none of the scriptres you gave links to show
that the lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is not to be worshipped

however the verse i gave shows that the Lord Jesus has all the Father has
which includes worship

johnw47:
Joh 16:15  All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


"all things that the Father has" includes worship



if Jesus was not equal to Father, He could not have
said this without blaspheming

freshboi88:

So when your boss issues u orders in the office, it makes him more human than u.....MuMu

Jesus is God just as Moses is God and Jehovah is God but the difference is one is the Almighty who is all in all {1Corinthians 15:26-28} while others takes instructions from Him!

As for the BOSS something makes him the superior that's why he is issuing orders.
JEHOVAH God is the Supreme Spirit Being while Jesus is a spirit being so both of them are spirit beings but one is SUPREME!

When will you outgrow this childishness?

Each time someone tries to enlighten you you often resort to insults and abusive speeches,
Ó MÀ ṢEO!

johnw47:

false jw mad max
of course none of the scriptres you gave links to show
that the lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is not to be worshipped
however the verse i gave shows that the Lord Jesus has all the Father has
which includes worship

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm but Jesus always wait for orders from JEHOVAH. John 8:28
So even though he is the heir to all the things his father has {Colossians 1:16} he still wait for orders from his father!

freshboi88:


All these are pointers God has shown u to reveal who Jesus truly is.

You say Jesus is not God....so how does he have the capability to do everything Jehovah can do ?

Go back and read the text. It never said this.

livingchrist:

He doesnt need to say it because whatever belongs to the father also belongs to Jesus.

If you are correct, he won't need to be given authority before he acts, it would have been automatic. But you can't think

The Father never delegate worship to Jesus. True worshippers are expected to worship only the Father - John 4:23

MaxInDHouse:

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm but Jesus always wait for orders from JEHOVAH. John 8:28
So even though he is the heir to all the things his father has {Colossians 1:16} he still wait for orders from his father!

false jw mad max

again you run away from the subject of worshipping the lord and Saviour Jesus christ:

Rev_21:8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I WORSHIP only the FATHER, Jesus said He (Father) is his God and my God! John 20:17

johnw47:

false jw mad max
again you run away from the subject of worshipping the lord and Saviour Jesus christ:
Rev_21:8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Barristter07:


Go back and read the text. It never said this.

Liar it did say so.

Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.


So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.

I know even with it in bold, d scales in your eyes will not allow u see it. But it is there no matter the lies u tell..even your NWT couldn't hide it.

So that's the question...How is Jesus able to do whatever the Father can do ?

Barristter07:


Go back and read the text. It never said this.

What did the text say

freshboi88:


Liar it did say so.

Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.


So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.

I know even with it in bold, d scales in your eyes will not allow u see it. But it is there no matter the lies u tell..even your NWT couldn't hide it.

So that's the question...How is Jesus able to do whatever the Father can do ?

Another interesting questions for the 8 men worshippers would be, they claim Jehovah created Jesus first and used the same Jesus to create all other things.

So what are the THINGS Jesus sees the Father doing that Jesus can do also?

Having it in mind that the Father ONLY created Jesus.

MaxInDHouse:
I WORSHIP only the FATHER, Jesus said He (Father) is his God and my God! John 20:17

false jw mad max

of course you false jw's don't worship the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ
who came down from heaven, was tortured and died a horiffic death, so that
man who He created might be saved from their sins for eternity

yes, the King of king and Lord of lords definately deserves to be worshipped.


if worship belongs to the Father, then it belongs to Jesus:

Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine:


also, Jesus didn't say: his God and my God
Jesus said to mary: my God, and your God

but you false jw's twist much, especially the bible:

Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Emusan:


Another interesting questions for the 8 men worshippers would be, they claim Jehovah created Jesus first and used the same Jesus to create all other things.

So what are the THINGS Jesus sees the Father doing that Jesus can do also?

Having it in mind that the Father ONLY created Jesus.

"So what are the THINGS Jesus sees the Father doing that Jesus can do also?"

Which of them will answer... lol

I have many questions for them but they don't answer questions... except copying their organization answers and paste here.

This issue of worship that maxInDHouse and his fellow worshipper of watch Tower, barristter07, are talking about is the Word...

By the way, I have similar question about this "Jesus is created"

They claim it is Jesus speaking in Proverbs 8.

Since He is the only Being created by the Father, and the speaker in Proverbs 8 says:

Proverbs 8:26 "KJV: While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27
KJV: When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28
KJV: When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29
KJV: When he gave to the sea his decree, [b/] that the waters should not pass his commandment: [b] when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

Who is this He, is it Jesus speaking of the Father or another being speaking of Jesus, "the creator of all other things"?

cc: Janosky, maxInDHouse, canticles, captivator,barristter07,haddeylium, peacefulworld01,tamyfire, fengchui...

KNOWMORE56:

"So what are the THINGS Jesus sees the Father doing that Jesus can do also?"

Which of them will answer... lol

I have many questions for them but they don't answer questions... except copying their organization answers and paste here.

This issue of worship that maxInDHouse and his fellow worshipper of watch Tower, barristter07, are talking about is the Word...

By the way, I have similar question about this "Jesus is created"

They claim it is Jesus speaking in Proverbs 8.

Since He is the only Being created by the Father, and the speaker in Proverbs 8 says:

Proverbs 8:26 "KJV: While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27
KJV: When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28
KJV: When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29
KJV: When he gave to the sea his decree, [b/] that the waters should not pass his commandment: [b] when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

Who is this He, is it Jesus speaking of the Father or another being speaking of Jesus, "the creator of all other things"?

cc: Janosky, maxInDHouse, canticles, captivator,barristter07,haddeylium, peacefulworld01,tamyfire, fengchui...

Ehud was called isreals savior, The same scripture said Jehovah is Isreals saviour. Neither is wrong, cos Ehud cannot perform anything without God's spirit.

Jesus rely on The Father's spirit to do all he does. So Proverb 8 not only refer to Jesus Christ. It emphasize that the Father is behind everything Christ did. The statement when he made the earth simply means His power was used in the making.


And let me ask you this: why is nobody created in Jesus image if he is the creator ?

freshboi88:


Liar it did say so.

Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.


So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.

I know even with it in bold, d scales in your eyes will not allow u see it. But it is there no matter the lies u tell..even your NWT couldn't hide it.

So that's the question...How is Jesus able to do whatever the Father can do ?

Does the bolded sound like Equality to you ?

Emusan:


Another interesting questions for the 8 men worshippers would be, they claim Jehovah created Jesus first and used the same Jesus to create all other things.

So what are the THINGS Jesus sees the Father doing that Jesus can do also?

Having it in mind that the Father ONLY created Jesus.

The text said :


“Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord , but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. "

The whole point of the Text is Jesus can't do anything without BEEN GRANTED AUTHORITY to do it.

For example Jesus sees the Father forgiving sins. He can only do this UNTIL the Father gave him the authority to do so.

Superiority

Barristter07:

Does the bolded sound like Equality to you ?

Since you want to talk about equality let me show you a scripture that says Jesus is equal with God but when He came to earth He willingly set His equality with God aside -

Nkjv -
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
Php 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

Nlt -
Php 2:5 Your attitude should be the same that Christ Jesus had.
Php 2:6 Though he was God, he did not demand and cling to his rights as God.
Php 2:7 He made himself nothing; he took the humble position of a slave and appeared in human form.
Php 2:8 And in human form he obediently humbled himself even further by dying a criminal's death on a cross.

What will your response be to this scripture, i wonder....

Hismasterpiece:


Since you want to talk about equality let me show you a scripture that says Jesus is equal with God but when He came to earth He willingly set His equality with God aside -

Nkjv -
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
Php 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

Nlt -
Php 2:5 Your attitude should be the same that Christ Jesus had.
Php 2:6 Though he was God, he did not demand and cling to his rights as God.
Php 2:7 He made himself nothing; he took the humble position of a slave and appeared in human form.
Php 2:8 And in human form he obediently humbled himself even further by dying a criminal's death on a cross.

What will your response be to this scripture, i wonder....

NLT was wrong Mr , Ever since you used capitalization to justify a point , I Know you lack how this things work.

The text said " Form of God "

Form means nature of God, his form, His spirit form, his Divine nature.

That doesn't mean he is God, cos angels also have the same form of God as Spirits and humans will share the same form as Divine nature's. It doesn't mean someone is God himself, it's only saying Christ despite existing in God's Form [nature] . Didn't think about Equality with God. He knows his Father is superior as his God and creator.

Barristter07:
The text said :
“Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord , but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. "

The whole point of the Text is Jesus can't do anything without BEEN GRANTED AUTHORITY to do it.

You only make that POINT of the text.

The point of the text is "...For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise."

For example Jesus sees the Father forgiving sins. He can only do this UNTIL the Father gave him the authority to do so.

Yes! In His incarnation

Superiority

Of course the Father is superior to Jesus in ranking, nobody deny that.

Barristter07:

Does the bolded sound like Equality to you ?

MuMu logic...seems like one of the requirements to be a JW is to be a fool and a complete olodo...cos u seems to be both to me.

So Seun doesn't do anything of his own but only what he sees Fela doing. And Everything Fela does Seun does in like manner...

So Fela is more human than Seun..they are not equal in their humanity ?

See your cow reasoning !

freshboi88:


MuMu logic...seems like one of the requirements to be a JW is to be a fool and a complete olodo...cos u seems to be both to me.

So Seun doesn't do anything of his own but only what he sees Fela doing. And Everything Fela does Seun does in like manner...

So Fela is more human than Seun..they are not equal in their humanity ?

See your cow reasoning !

The Red should have got you thinking, Can't do nothing on his own means he can't function until he is permitted to do it.

Jesus saw the Father forgiving sins, But can't until he was given authority to do so.

That he needed to be given authority to do things throw your point inside the gutter

Emusan:


You only make that POINT of the text.

The point of the text is "...For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise."
Yes! In His incarnation

It has always been like that. Jesus needed permission to do what the Father does. That's the point. It's not automatic, even when he saw the Father doing something, he still needed to be given authority to do so.


Does Daniel 7:14 sound like incarnation to you ?

Of course the Father is superior to Jesus in ranking, nobody deny that.

So equal by nature right ?

Equality on the basis of nature is one the Most Silly argument by your branch of Trinity. That means humans sharing God's nature are equal with God too.

Talking about worship...
Jesus was worshiped...
Jesus is being worshiped... and
Jesus will be worshiped forever and ever:


10. FATHER/SON WAS/IS BEING/ SHALL BE WORSHIPED:

https://www.nairaland.com/5745609/trinity-explained/3#89854889:

*. Matthew 2:11"KJV:And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and FELL DOWN, and WORSHIPPED HIM : and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh. (i.e the Son)

*. Genesis 24:26 "KJV:And the man BOWED DOWN his head, and WORSHIPPED the LORD . (i.e the Father)

*. Revelation 4:10-11 "KJV: The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11
KJV:Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. (i.e the Son)

*. Revelation 7:11 "KJV:And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and FELL before the throne on their faces, and WORSHIPPED God , (i.e the Father)

*. Hebrews 1:6 "KJV:And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the ANGELS of God WORSHIP HIM. (i.e the Son).

In the New Testament, SERVE GOD has the same meaning with worship God:

https://www.nairaland.com/6404492/characteristics-true-god#98905763.

*. Matthew 4:10 kjV:Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt WORSHIP the LORD thy GOD, AND HIM ONLY SHALT THOU SERVE . (i.e the Father);

*. John 12:26 "KJV: If any MAN SERVE ME, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any MAN SERVE ME, him will my Father honour ...(i.e the Son);

*. Luke 1: 74 "KJV:That he would grant unto us, that WE BEING DELIVERED out of the hand of our enemies MIGHT SERVE HIM WITHOUT FEAR ," (i.e the Son);

*. Acts 7:7 "KKJV: And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and SERVE ME IN THIS PLACE. "(i.e the Father).

NOTE, He (Jesus) said ONLY the Lord your God you will serve,
consider the emphasis on the word ONLY, i.e no other one should be served.

He then said all the people serving Him (Jesus) the Father will honour them.

If anyone serves Jesus, he's not serving idol. And they are not serving another God...

He didn't use the word God in that place but Father.

Because He (Jesus) had assumed His office as God in that verse.

He said ONLY God you have to serve, and said afterward SERVE ME.

In other words He is saying I AM THE LORD THY GOD whom only you shall serve....

*. Deuteronomy 6:13 "KJV: Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God, and SERVE HIM , and shalt swear by his name.
(i.e the Father).

*. Psalms 96:6 "KJV: O WORSHIP THE LORD in the beauty of holiness : fear before him, all the earth. (i.e the Father)

Barristter07:


The Red should have got you thinking, Can't do nothing on his own means he can't function until he is permitted to do it.

Jesus saw the Father forgiving sins, But can't until he was given authority to do so.

That he needed to be given authority to do things throw your point inside the gutter

Liar......the Bible makes this clear what John 5:19 is talking about. I'll use the Bible again to shut u up.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

Does the Son have the liberty to give life to whomever it pleases him ?.....and yet he is not God.....

Only God can give life isn't that what u are thought

Abeg u no get talk!!!

Barristter07:
NLT was wrong Mr , Ever since you used capitalization to justify a point , I Know you lack how this things work.

Now NTL is wrong because it simply didn't support your assertion but KJv is right, right

Do

The text said " Form of God "

Form means nature of God, his form, His spirit form, his Divine nature.

That doesn't mean he is God, cos angels also have the same form of God as Spirits and humans will share the same form as Divine nature's. It doesn't mean someone is God himself, it's only saying Christ despite existing in God's Form [nature] . Didn't think about Equality with God. He knows his Father is superior as his God and creator.

See twisting!

It's like saying, something has HUMAN NATURE and that thing isn't HUMAN....very pathetic.

If that verse is talking about THE VERY NATURE OF GOD and you claim Angel possesses that, it means Angels are God too because what that verse is talking about is having the very NATURE THAT MAKES GOD, GOD!

And we know that Angels don't have what makes God, God but Jesus said to have it.

This is how your beloved CEV put it.

CEV: Christ was truly God. But he did not try to remain equal with God.

Now the time to deny CEV has come

freshboi88:


Liar......the Bible makes this clear what John 5:19 is talking about. I'll use the Bible again to shut u up.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

Does the Son have the liberty to give life to whomever it pleases him ?.....and yet he is not God.....

Only God can give life isn't that what u are thought

Abeg u no get talk!!!

" For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him ." John 17:2

Dey use sense . He can't until he was given authority to give life

Barristter07:

It has always been like that. Jesus needed permission to do what the Father does. That's the point. It's not automatic, even when he saw the Father doing something, he still needed to be given authority to do so.

That's not the point, it's yours!

Christ does EXACTLY what the Father does!

Does Daniel 7:14 sound like incarnation to you ?

Daniel 7:14 is still talking about Christ's mission as human

So equal by nature right ?

Equality on the basis of nature is one the Most Silly argument by your branch of Trinity. That means humans sharing God's nature are equal with God too.

Human can't possess the nature that makes God, God but Christ exists in that VERY NATURE.

Emusan:


Now NTL is wrong because it simply didn't support your assertion but KJv is right, right
See twisting!

It's like saying, something has HUMAN NATURE and that thing isn't HUMAN....very pathetic.

If that verse is talking about THE VERY NATURE OF GOD and you claim Angel possesses that, it means Angels are God too because what that verse is talking about is having the very NATURE THAT MAKES GOD, GOD!

And we know that Angels don't have what makes God, God but Jesus said to have it.

This is how your beloved CEV put it.

CEV: Christ was truly God. But he did not try to remain equal with God.

Now the time to deny CEV has come

Form of God = Spirit

Form of servant = Fleshly body.

The context of that verse simply refer to the appearance in which he exist.

To drive my point : Jesus take the form of servant and become exactly like humans. But without sharing the defects and other human evil qualities. The take the very nature of humans he came to save will mean he inherit sin like them


The text is all about Appearance.

Emusan:


That's not the point, it's yours!

Christ does EXACTLY what the Father does!

Daniel 7:14 is still talking about Christ's mission as human

So if he does exactly what the Father does automatically, why does he need to be given permission/authority ?


Show me one thing Christ does that he wasn't given authority to do ?

Human can't possess the nature that makes God, God but Christ exists in that VERY NATURE.

To share in the Divine nature does not mean to possess ?

Barristter07:


Form of God = Spirit

Form of servant = Fleshly body.

The context of that verse simply refer to the appearance in which he exist.

To drive my point : Jesus take the form of servant and become exactly like humans. But without sharing the defects and other human evil qualities. The take the very nature of humans he came to save will mean he inherit sin like them


The text is all about Appearance.

You'll keep twisting your mouth.

He quoted NLT you said, it's wrong but when I showed you how your favorite version put it, you're changing tune.

You even implicate yourself by saying "Jesus take the form of servant and become EXACTLY like humans."

Which you know what that verse is saying is Jesus has the very nature that makes God God.

Sin & evil are not NATURE stop lying.

If Sin & evil are NATURE it means Devil is now human or the people who will inherit earth aren't complete in their nature since sin and evil won't be found in them.

Barristter07:

So if he does exactly what the Father does automatically, why does he need to be given permission/authority ?

because Christ has already laid aside that authority Phil 2:6 so in His incarnation He simply rely on His Father.

Show me one thing Christ does that he wasn't given authority to do ?

He created you and the whole universe without taking permission from anyone.

Can you show me where Jesus sees the Father PERFORMING THE ACT OF CREATION that makes Jesus does the same?

To share in the Divine nature does not mean to possess ?

It depends on the context.