Antichristian the real war or jihad is within. God is the universal consciousness within each of us. The real wars against pride, jealousy, envy....etc.

The Torah is metaphorical...

BeLookingIDIOT:

Lol... But they're not lying na

Isaiah 66:15-18 (NET)
"15 ​​​​​​​For look, the LORD comes with fire, ​​​​​​his chariots come like a windstorm, ​​​​​​to reveal his raging anger, ​​​​​​his battle cry, and his flaming arrows. 16 ​​​​​​​For the LORD judges all humanity ​​​​​​with fire and his sword; ​​​​​​the LORD will kill many. 17 "As for those who consecrate and ritually purify themselves so they can follow their leader and worship in the sacred orchards, those who eat the flesh of pigs and other disgusting creatures, like mice – they will all be destroyed together,” says the LORD. 18 “I hate their deeds and thoughts! So I am coming to gather all the nations and ethnic groups; they will come and witness my splendor."

Destroying infidels and pigs is clearly part of Jesus to-do list,if he's the messiah.

Antichrist! You are just typing out of context. Jesus did not steal, by your Qur'an, you know it is impossible. He will even judge mohammed. He is the only sinless person in the Bible and Qur'an. Mohammed didn't not claim not to be a sinner.

The screen you qouted show that you don't understand Christian faith.

Islam is a killer religion by default. Since the time of the Twelvers (Shia and Sunni) sects Muslim Ummah has not have peace, neither will they . It is the hallmark of Islam.
In the whole world today, there is name that is dreadful: Islam.
The fear of Muslims is the beginning of wisdom.




Islam is EVIL

MightySparrow:



Antichrist! You are just typing out of context. Jesus did not steal, by your Qur'an, you know it is impossible. He will even judge mohammed. He is the only sinless person in the Bible and Qur'an. Mohammed didn't not claim not to be a sinner.

The screen you qouted show that you don't understand Christian faith.

Islam is a killer religion by default. Since the time of the Twelvers (Shia and Sunni) sects Muslim Ummah has not have peace, neither will they . It is the hallmark of Islam.
In the whole world today, there is name that is dreadful: Islam.
The fear of Muslims is the beginning of wisdom.




Islam is EVIL

Of course it's always "out of context" Mtcheew.
Something that is so plain.
And you must be really silly if from my comment you still could assume I'm Muslim.
Humanity have constantly been waging wars from time immemorial. What their countries have been involved in is zero compared to what have been occuring everywhere else.
Not that I'm trying to defend it by the wayy,just pointing out the gaps of your logic.

BeLookingIDIOT:

Of course it's always "out of context" Mtcheew.
Something that is so plain.
And you must be really silly if from my comment you still could assume I'm Muslim.
Humanity have constantly been waging wars from time immemorial. What their countries have been involved in is zero compared to what have been occuring everywhere else.
Not that I'm trying to defend it by the wayy,just pointing out the gaps of your logic.

I don't really understand what you are saying, I was debating one silly Antichristian. I just looked at your name. Sorry.

The silly fellow annoys me with his posts.
Sorry Brother.

MightySparrow:


I don't really understand what you are saying, I was debating one silly Antichristian. I just looked at your name. Sorry.

The silly fellow annoys me with his posts.
Sorry Brother.

Even the creator of heaven and earth is AntiChristian..

Signs and wonders do not prove that Jesus is divine, a messiah or part of a triune god. Signs and wonders (miracles as well) are worthless. All religions claim them, just do a search on the internet for Muslim or Buddhist miralces and you will see this is true.

Just because someone can produce a "miracle" does not make them a god or worthy of even being "followed." G-d allows fakers (magicians) and false religions to produce miracles to test their faith in Him. See for yourself: do a quick internet search on Muslim miracles or Buddhist miracles. . . you will find just as many as for Christians or (fill in the blank). . .

Someone asked me "without signs and wonders how will you know the messiah from his birth?"

No one will know who the messiah is from his birth -- because in every generation there lives a man who COULD be the messiah if we were ready for him. The messiah will be a servant of G-d (as was Moses), the glory is G-d's. . .not the messiah's!

As Torah tells us people can fake both signs and wonders -- and even when they are not faked they are often tests from G-d to see if we can be faithful to His Torah. Reread D'varim / Deuteronomy 13 where G-d tells us that He lets false religions have miracles and such to test your faith in Him. Every religion on the planet can claim miracles and "firsthand saving power" including pagans.

The Rambam wrote "the signs that Moses performed and why he performed them, and that he did not do so to make the people believe in him.

1) The Children of Israel did not believe in Moses [solely] because of the signs he presented, for someone who believes [in a prophet solely] because of the signs he presents is tainted, for it could be that his signs are performed by means of spells and witchcraft.

All the signs that Moses performed in the wilderness were done so according to the needs of the moment, and not to bring proof to his prophecies. There was a need to sink the Egyptians, so Moses split the sea and drowned them in it; the Children of Israel needed food, so Moses brought down the manna for them; they needed water, so Moses split the rock for them; Korah and his followers rebelled, so Moses opened up the ground and they were swallowed up.

The same principle applies with all the other signs. It was the assembly at Mount Sinai that made them believe in Moses, when our eyes, and no-one else's, saw, and our ears, and no-one else's, heard, and Moses drew near to the darkness, and the voice spoke to him, and we heard it saying to Moses, "Moses, Moses, go tell them such-and-such". In connection with this it is written, "The L-rd talked with you face to face", and it is also written, "The L-rd did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us". From where is it known that the assembly at Mount Sinai was the proof that the prophecy of Moses was true and that he was not speaking basely? It is derived from the verse, "Lo, I come to you in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with you, and believe you for ever". From this we see that prior to the assembly at Mount Sinai their belief in Moses was not one that would have lasted for ever, but it was a belief that left room for discussion and thought.

2) It would transpire that those people to whom a prophet is sent are witnesses that his prophecy is true, and he need not perform any other sign, for them and they combine to form one unit with respect to this matter, in the same way that two people who saw the same thing together combine as witnesses, for each of them is a witness that the other is speaking the truth, and need not bring [additional] proof to back him up.

So it was with Moses our Teacher, that all of the Children of Israel were his witnesses after the assembly at Mount Sinai, and he didn't have to perform for them any signs.

This is what G-d said to him at the time when his prophecy started, when He showed him what signs to perform in Egypt: "And they shall listen to your voice". Moses knew that anyone who believes [solely] because of signs is tainted and will be doubtful, and expressed a reluctance to go by saying, "But behold they will not believe me"4. G-d told him that these signs will [continue to be performed and] applied only until they had left Egypt and assembled at Mount Sinai, whereupon any doubt will vanish, and also assured him that [at Mount Sinai] He will give signs that Moses had been sent by G-d in truth from the [very] beginning, and that no doubt will remain.

This is what Scripture says: "...and this shall be a sign to you that I have sent you; when you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall G-d upon this mountain". From this we learn that any Prophet that came after Moses is not believed solely because of his signs to make us think that if he makes a sign we should listen to everything he says, but [is believed] because of the commandment of Moses in the Torah: "...to him you shall listen", if he gives a sign. Just as we have been commanded to decide a matter according to the testimony of two witnesses, even though we do not know if his sign is Divine or achieved by spells and witchcraft.

3) Therefore, if a prophet arose and performed great signs and wonders, and tells us to deny the prophecy of Moses our Teacher, we do not listen to him, and we [will] know for sure that his signs are the result of spells and witchcraft. The prophecy of Moses was not dependent upon signs, so the signs of this prophet cannot outweigh the signs of Moses, for we saw and heard them, just as he did. This is similar to two witnesses who bear testimony that a particular person did a particular thing in front of them, but he is not like they say he is, so we do not listen to them and we know for sure that they are false witnesses. Therefore, the Torah said that if a prophet comes with signs and wonders, we do not listen to him, for he is coming to deny that what we saw with our eyes. Since we believe in wonders only because of a commandment of Moses, how can we accept a sign that is brought to deny the prophecy of Moses which we saw and heard?!"

God denies King David the ability to build the temple because he “shed blood in war.” How would Jesus be able to enter into New Jerusalem if he came back with a sword and a vestibule drenched in blood? How would he usher in the rebuilding of the temple—or be the new temple—if he came back to slay sinners and shed blood in war?

The book of Revelation of the New Testament says Jesus will come again “to make war” and that his clothing will be “drenched in blood,” which is another inconvenient claim not supported by the Hebrew prophecies of the Messiah.

sonmvayina:

God denies King David the ability to build the temple because he “shed blood in war.” How would Jesus be able to enter into New Jerusalem if he came back with a sword and a vestibule drenched in blood? How would he usher in the rebuilding of the temple—or be the new temple—if he came back to slay sinners and shed blood in war?

The book of Revelation of the New Testament says Jesus will come again “to make war” and that his clothing will be “drenched in blood,” which is another inconvenient claim not supported by the Hebrew prophecies of the Messiah.

The one and only group that can answer these questions using the Bible are Jehovah's Witnesses but since you want to argue with Churchgoers i'll leave you with them!

MaxInDHouse:


The one and only group that can answer these questions using the Bible are Jehovah's Witnesses but since you want to argue with Churchgoers i'll leave you with them!

You don't need extra permission..


Just go ahead already

sonmvayina:
Signs and wonders do not prove that Jesus is divine, a messiah or part of a triune god. Signs and wonders (miracles as well) are worthless. All religions claim them, just do a search on the internet for Muslim or Buddhist miralces and you will see this is true.

Just because someone can produce a "miracle" does not make them a god or worthy of even being "followed." G-d allows fakers (magicians) and false religions to produce miracles to test their faith in Him. See for yourself: do a quick internet search on Muslim miracles or Buddhist miracles. . . you will find just as many as for Christians or (fill in the blank). . .

Someone asked me "without signs and wonders how will you know the messiah from his birth?"

No one will know who the messiah is from his birth -- because in every generation there lives a man who COULD be the messiah if we were ready for him. The messiah will be a servant of G-d (as was Moses), the glory is G-d's. . .not the messiah's!

As Torah tells us people can fake both signs and wonders -- and even when they are not faked they are often tests from G-d to see if we can be faithful to His Torah. Reread D'varim / Deuteronomy 13 where G-d tells us that He lets false religions have miracles and such to test your faith in Him. Every religion on the planet can claim miracles and "firsthand saving power" including pagans.

The Rambam wrote "the signs that Moses performed and why he performed them, and that he did not do so to make the people believe in him.

1) The Children of Israel did not believe in Moses [solely] because of the signs he presented, for someone who believes [in a prophet solely] because of the signs he presents is tainted, for it could be that his signs are performed by means of spells and witchcraft.

All the signs that Moses performed in the wilderness were done so according to the needs of the moment, and not to bring proof to his prophecies. There was a need to sink the Egyptians, so Moses split the sea and drowned them in it; the Children of Israel needed food, so Moses brought down the manna for them; they needed water, so Moses split the rock for them; Korah and his followers rebelled, so Moses opened up the ground and they were swallowed up.

The same principle applies with all the other signs. It was the assembly at Mount Sinai that made them believe in Moses, when our eyes, and no-one else's, saw, and our ears, and no-one else's, heard, and Moses drew near to the darkness, and the voice spoke to him, and we heard it saying to Moses, "Moses, Moses, go tell them such-and-such". In connection with this it is written, "The L-rd talked with you face to face", and it is also written, "The L-rd did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us". From where is it known that the assembly at Mount Sinai was the proof that the prophecy of Moses was true and that he was not speaking basely? It is derived from the verse, "Lo, I come to you in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with you, and believe you for ever". From this we see that prior to the assembly at Mount Sinai their belief in Moses was not one that would have lasted for ever, but it was a belief that left room for discussion and thought.

2) It would transpire that those people to whom a prophet is sent are witnesses that his prophecy is true, and he need not perform any other sign, for them and they combine to form one unit with respect to this matter, in the same way that two people who saw the same thing together combine as witnesses, for each of them is a witness that the other is speaking the truth, and need not bring [additional] proof to back him up.

So it was with Moses our Teacher, that all of the Children of Israel were his witnesses after the assembly at Mount Sinai, and he didn't have to perform for them any signs.

This is what G-d said to him at the time when his prophecy started, when He showed him what signs to perform in Egypt: "And they shall listen to your voice". Moses knew that anyone who believes [solely] because of signs is tainted and will be doubtful, and expressed a reluctance to go by saying, "But behold they will not believe me"4. G-d told him that these signs will [continue to be performed and] applied only until they had left Egypt and assembled at Mount Sinai, whereupon any doubt will vanish, and also assured him that [at Mount Sinai] He will give signs that Moses had been sent by G-d in truth from the [very] beginning, and that no doubt will remain.

This is what Scripture says: "...and this shall be a sign to you that I have sent you; when you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall G-d upon this mountain". From this we learn that any Prophet that came after Moses is not believed solely because of his signs to make us think that if he makes a sign we should listen to everything he says, but [is believed] because of the commandment of Moses in the Torah: "...to him you shall listen", if he gives a sign. Just as we have been commanded to decide a matter according to the testimony of two witnesses, even though we do not know if his sign is Divine or achieved by spells and witchcraft.

3) Therefore, if a prophet arose and performed great signs and wonders, and tells us to deny the prophecy of Moses our Teacher, we do not listen to him, and we [will] know for sure that his signs are the result of spells and witchcraft. The prophecy of Moses was not dependent upon signs, so the signs of this prophet cannot outweigh the signs of Moses, for we saw and heard them, just as he did. This is similar to two witnesses who bear testimony that a particular person did a particular thing in front of them, but he is not like they say he is, so we do not listen to them and we know for sure that they are false witnesses. Therefore, the Torah said that if a prophet comes with signs and wonders, we do not listen to him, for he is coming to deny that what we saw with our eyes. Since we believe in wonders only because of a commandment of Moses, how can we accept a sign that is brought to deny the prophecy of Moses which we saw and heard?!"

Sonmvayina, I suppose you didn't compose this yourself? Did you? I have a few questions to ask.

sonmvayina:
God denies King David the ability to build the temple because he “shed blood in war.” How would Jesus be able to enter into New Jerusalem if he came back with a sword and a vestibule drenched in blood? How would he usher in the rebuilding of the temple—or be the new temple—if he came back to slay sinners and shed blood in war?

The book of Revelation of the New Testament says Jesus will come again “to make war” and that his clothing will be “drenched in blood,” which is another inconvenient claim not supported by the Hebrew prophecies of the Messiah.

I may be wrong, where in the book of Revelation was it said that the Messiah would be coming to build a temple?

Sonmvayina?

elated177:


Sonmvayina, I suppose you didn't compose this yourself? Did you? I have a few questions to ask.

Fire away...

sonmvayina:

You don't need extra permission..
Just go ahead already

You know me already but let's wait for your friends (Churchgoers) you need to know what their god taught them!

MaxInDHouse:


You know me already but let's wait for your friends (Churchgoers) you need to know what their god taught them!

Nobody was there when these literatures where written. All we can do is try and make sense of context. I have shown clearly for those that are enlightened that the Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah. And also that he has nothing to do with Judaism and the Jewish people. ..

I will surely listen to any refutation from any person as long as he shows where the idea was conceived in the old testament...

sonmvayina:

Nobody was there when these literatures where written. All we can do is try and make sense of context. I have shown clearly for those that are enlightened that the Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah. And also that he has nothing to do with Judaism and the Jewish people. ..
I will surely listen to any refutation from any person as long as he shows where the idea was conceived in the old testament...

Do you believe in the coming of a Messiah?

If you do what exactly connected you to the Jews and not a Messiah from your own race or any other race for that matter?

MaxInDHouse:


Do you believe in the coming of a Messiah?

If you do what exactly connected you to the Jews and not a Messiah from your own race or any other race for that matter?

The Messiah spoken about in Judaism is an ordinary human being like you and man. Born under the law means having a father and a mother. His main mission is to bring peace to the earth. He will usher in an era of world peace. No more wars and oppression of any kind. He will teach the entire earth to revere only the creator( Not necessary Judaism). Thise has not happen, so the jews are still waiting..
A Messiah simply means anointed king. I have one in my village now called Obi Azuka the second.

I am not Jewish and I don't practice Judaism. I only show that Judaism and Christianity are two different religion and ideology.

sonmvayina:

The Messiah spoken about in Judaism is an ordinary human being like you and man. Born under the law means having a father and a mother. His main mission is to bring peace to the earth. He will usher in an era of world peace. No more wars and oppression of any kind. He will teach the entire earth to revere only the creator( Not necessary Judaism). Thise has not happen, so the jews are still waiting..
A Messiah simply means anointed king. I have one in my village now called Obi Azuka the second.

I am not Jewish and I don't practice Judaism. I only show that Judaism and Christianity are two different religion and ideology.

Why must he be a Jew and not Yorùbá?

sonmvayina:

He will teach the entire earth to revere only the creator ( Not necessary Judaism). This has not happen, so the jews are still waiting..

This is very not true. The stories we read about Jesus specifically teach “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

The bolded 'your' means your God, whichever it may be. You hinted on this understanding with "Not necessary Judaism", so it does not matter that some wait since many have not yet received a book, and some not even abc.

sonmvayina:


Fire away...

You didn't answer the question.

budaatum:



The bolded 'your' means your God, whichever it may be.

A very occultic teaching.

Sonmvayina, you seem to be in support of what budaatum said above.

elated177:


You didn't answer the question.

Which is/was ?

MaxInDHouse:


Why must he be a Jew and not Yorùbá?

He must be from the tribe of Judah.. line of David..

elated177:


A very occultic teaching.

Very occultic (hidden) from the masses.

sonmvayina:

He must be from the tribe of Judah.. line of David..

Who is David?
What business have i got to do with him?

MaxInDHouse:

Who is David?
What business have i got to do with him?

Nothing...he was a Jewish king.

The Jewish Messiah will come from his blood line.

According to the jews.
Jesus has no father according to the story. So he is not from anywhere because genealogy is only transferred from father to son.
So my argument is that Jesus can't be a real human being, he belongs to Roman/Greek mythology...

What you say?

sonmvayina:

Nothing...he was a Jewish king.
The Jewish Messiah will come from his blood line.
According to the jews.
Jesus has no father according to the story. So he is not from anywhere because genealogy is only transferred from father to son.
So my argument is that Jesus can't be a real human being, he belongs to Roman/Greek mythology...
What you say?

Why the digression to Jesus again?
This is what you typed:

sonmvayina:

The Messiah spoken about in Judaism is an ordinary human being like you and man. Born under the law means having a father and a mother. His main mission is to bring peace to the earth. He will usher in an era of world peace. No more wars and oppression of any kind. He will teach the entire earth to revere only the creator( Not necessary Judaism). Thise has not happen, so the jews are still waiting..
A Messiah simply means anointed king. I have one in my village now called Obi Azuka the second

The highlighted caught my attention, that's why i asked you:

Why must the Messiah to save the world come from the Jews?
Why not from my own tribe Yorùbá?

Then you said:

sonmvayina:

He must be from the tribe of Judah.. line of David..

So i asked you who is David? And what business do i have with him? because i will prefer my saviour to come speak my own language and most especially born from my own tribe just as you have Obi Azuka!

sonmvayina:


Which is/was ?

Are you the owner of the write-up?

sonmvayina:


Very occultic (hidden) from the masses.

Putting it succinctly, very demonic assertion. Now, what say you?

elated177:



Putting it succinctly, very demonic assertion. Now, what say you?

I don't know what you mean ?

elated177:


Are you the owner of the write-up?

Yes....

MaxInDHouse:


Why the digression to Jesus again?
This is what you typed:



The highlighted caught my attention, that's why i asked you:

Why must the Messiah to save the world come from the Jews?
Why not from my own tribe Yorùbá?

Then you said:


So i asked you who is David? And what business do i have with him? because i will prefer my saviour to come speak my own language and most especially born from my own tribe just as you have Obi Azuka!

We are saying the same thing ..

The idea of a Messiah is Jewish in origin.

In my place we just know they are king and accord them due respect.

The Messiah the jews are talking about, the one God promised to send them is supposed to bring peace between them and their neighbors. Build the temple and resume the daily sacrifice to their God.. because of his righteousness, the entire world would be infected with his good life and peace will gradually come to earth. USA and the likes will turn their war arsenals into ploughs and tractors....no more wars and oppression of any kind.

I really would like to live in such a world. Who wouldn't?

Sections of the Tanakah speak of animal sacrifice for the redemption of sin, other places within the Tanakah reveal ten other forms of atonement that do not require blood at all. Four types of atonement not requiring blood are found within the first five books of the Bible. In addition to animal sacrifice, flour is an acceptable type of atonement if one is too poor to offer turtledoves or pigeons.
Repentance, fasting, justice and judgment, mercy and truth, hyssop, and finally, obedience are all examples of atonement in scripture, and none require the blood of either animal or humans as a payment for sin. The Hebrew Scriptures add no credence to a need for a crucified messiah that one must believe in to be saved.

Incense atones for the sins of false accusations Numbers 16

Flour is an acceptable sin sacrifice
Leviticus 5:11

The one-half shekel shall be offered as atonement per soul Exodus 30:11-16

Gold from battle to make atonement for the soul, memorial Numbers 31:50, 54

Turn from wicked ways, pray, humility, God will forgive 2 Chronicles 7:14

Confess sin to God and he will forgive your iniquity Psalm 32:5

Let the wicked forsake sin, return to God who will pardon Isaiah 55:6-7

God saw the people of Nineveh turn from evil & forgave Jonah 3:10

Purge with hyssop, wash me, blot sins, create a clean heart Psalm 51:6-10

Justice & judgment is more acceptable than sacrifice
Proverbs 21:3

By mercy & truth iniquity is purged Proverbs 16:11