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|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by 2muchlogic(m): 9:07pm On Jun 11, 2011|
I see what you mean but this is the 21st century, if all Nigerians need is BASIC, SIMPLE farming then why do they need to call in the South Koreans?
For example how can farmers PLAN what they plant? you will need a good information system and computer models to do so. What about equipment? Who will design and manufacture it? Do Nigerians invent for their own AFRICAN environment or continue to import from foreigners? What about research into the farming environment? What about creating value-added products for export? For example look at the west they take cocoa form Africa for peanuts then sell it for a fortune in the form of Ice-cream, soft-drinks and chocolate - they make billions! The Japanese make millions by exporting yogurts! So I think its better to move away from the BASIC approach with a cutlass and HOE - its so yesterday The emphasis instead should be on modern farming and the production of value-added products.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kobojunkie: 9:11pm On Jun 11, 2011|
Funny how we now pretend Nigerians are UNAWARE of the benefits of local farming to our economy and our survival. . . . are you folks joking? ??
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by ektbear: 9:18pm On Jun 11, 2011|
Nigerians annoy the hell out of me sometimes.
They have no interest in farming themselves. But if a foreigner comes in to do the same exact thing ya'll refuse to do and would rather be speculating on real estate deals, importing, or whatever else you do for money, then suddenly it is neocolonialism.
Better that the land remain unused and idle than productive if the man making it productive is foreign, I guess
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by aribisala0(m): 9:21pm On Jun 11, 2011|
in your eyes you are clever and know it all
so i will say no more to you
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by ektbear: 9:34pm On Jun 11, 2011|
This isn't really about cleverness. It is about finding ways of boosting productivity. We cannot both refuse to take advantage of the opportunities available in Nigeria and also prevent others from doing so. That makes no sense.
Granted, it'll be necessary to ensure that you don't get ripped off. But it still seems important to explore the option.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by emiye(m): 9:36pm On Jun 11, 2011|
Good one!, me thinks the advantages outweighs the minuses. The state govt can go on a concession agreement with the firm , hoping they have a wonderful legal and regulatory framework for the project, the firm must not just create jobs for Nigerians, but focus on human capital development for nigerians on modern commercial farming techniques .
That will make a good bargain, we can not continue to deceive ourselves with the claim of an arable land that we have left dormant all along, moreover the state govt does not have the fiscal prowess for massive projects of such nature, without it affecting other pressing needs like education, health e.t.c
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by aribisala0(m): 9:39pm On Jun 11, 2011|
was not addressing u.sorry
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by aribisala0(m): 9:44pm On Jun 11, 2011|
simple questions who are these people and have done they this anywhere else,?
surely if you enter plane you want to know the pilot can fly it.nigerians are not all bumpkins.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by nedu666: 10:08pm On Jun 11, 2011|
LAWD have mercy, 30,000 heca, does the land belong to the govt or they will force it out of people like madagascar, also why will u invest $400m only to hand it back after 3 yrs, when then do you break even, although this sounds good but the motive behind this is suspect, pls remember that china and india have land for cultivation probs, the arabs also and water shortage, if ekiti agrees to this what happened in zimbabwe will repeat itself sometime in future.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by jmaine: 10:10pm On Jun 11, 2011|
Points fully affirmed
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by 2muchlogic(m): 10:20pm On Jun 11, 2011|
Yes increasing productivity is a great motive, but can you give an example of where this has been done successfully, before in Africa?
I totally agree, which is why I said that there needs to be an encouragement drive at the federal and state level to encourage Nigerians to take full responsibility; If its so profitable why not?
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Nobody: 11:32pm On Jun 11, 2011|
You are right, farming is very important. We do no eat a lot of chocolate but we were able to supply a significant amount of cacao to the world market. It is absurd to think the Koreans have anything to teach us about farming, it is absolutely ridiculous.
And when they are only interested in exporting raw agricultural products, we should be even more alarmed.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by seanet03: 11:37pm On Jun 11, 2011|
Aigbofa lan wo oke, Ifa kan o sini para, long time.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Nobody: 11:44pm On Jun 11, 2011|
Yeah my man! I've been a little busy. How are you doing.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kobojunkie: 1:20am On Jun 12, 2011|
Much of our Nigerian problem is one born of arrogance, not ignorance.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Nobody: 1:32am On Jun 12, 2011|
More like ignorance than arrogance.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kobojunkie: 1:34am On Jun 12, 2011|
^^^ Nope, definitely arrogance, not ignorance.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by OAM4J: 3:15am On Jun 12, 2011|
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kobojunkie: 3:20am On Jun 12, 2011|
^^^ Ignorance? --- remember when it was claimed that Nigerians happen to be some of the most educated people on the planet? We have PHDs in our Government . . . we have PHDs on our streets. No, it can't be ignorance. Ignorance itself implies a lack of knowledge -- I don't think that is it.
The results of the last elections alone have more than convinced me, at this point, that we are not necessarily ignorant -- we resist change more out of arrogance, not ignorance. We KNOW but we refuse because . . . .
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kilode1: 3:32am On Jun 12, 2011|
^. . . because we don't know enough? no real depth to the knowledge.
Like St Augustine said, Half-knowledge is more dangerous than total ignorance(my paraphrase)
If makes you arrogant, unyielding and difficult, because you are too ignorant to realize that you don't know enough. So you learn nothing.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kobojunkie: 3:48am On Jun 12, 2011|
I don't believe, for one minute, that we don't know enough. What is considered enough knowledge? How do you measure real depth of knowledge when common sense is concerned? How much would you consider enough for us to apply common sense solutions(none of which we have had to create on our own) to solving basic, day-to-day problems?
There are just too many examples of how we refuse common sense -- things we know and see to be true -- just so we can do things the "Nigerian way".
Our population has in less than 20 years almost doubled, in that same time poverty has witnessed a more than 50% increase. Yet the people who own the land refuse to invest in the land. 98% of all the goods and services we consume today come from abroad, and we still do NOTHING.
Crying foul, suddenly pretending this land needs to be guarded and protected, when an investor comes in to invest in that which we are unwilling to, even if so as to feed their own, reveals the problem is not ignorance but arrogance.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by OAM4J: 4:09am On Jun 12, 2011|
Yes I agree we have lots of arrogant Nigerians, but there are lot of Nigerians who know nothing but think they know so much, they are sincerely Ignorant.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kilode1: 4:56am On Jun 12, 2011|
@Kobo, common sense requires good judgement and that is not a common easy thing to acquire.
It comes from a deep understanding of the world around you and how is affects you (or whatever it is you want to do) beyond the surface stuff that any idi/ot with two eyes can see.
Common sense is backed by something deeper than mere Information. What you "know and see to be true" as you said, is not so apparent to many folks.
Human beings are generally rational, but we need understanding to feed our rationality. Again, acquiring information is NOT the same as having understanding. A child plays with fire not because she's irrational but more because she lacks a combo of knowledge and experience to understand the danger. Once she get's burnt, rationality forces her to avoid it next time.
You might ask, well shebi Nigerians have seen the effects of bad leadership, why not choose right? But in reality have they? Do they see it? Do they know better? Are they really burnt? Do they understand it's bad? Can they compare it to anything else? Do they see the big picture, is it really hurting them?
They won't vote for Abacha, or IBB obviously, but they are not sure how that connects with the usurpers they currently vote in. Some see the nuances, most don't get it. So the lesson is still not learnt, the pain of Abacha and IBB is not connected to the leaders they still choose. Maybe you and I can connect it, but a lot of folks can't.
I understand your frustration though. A lot of my people are arrogantly ignorant, but I'm hopeful. I don't know enough myself but acquiring knowledge is a continuos process, I believe. Arrogance borne out of half-knowledge cuts life from that process.
Back to topic: I just want us to exercise caution, if we have good leaders with proven track records of protecting the interests of their people over immediate gain, most people here won't be skeptical. As a matter of fact, Africa would not need Koreans to acquire lands. We will just take advantage of the looming food scarcity and force them to depend on us and our Arable land for survival. But alas.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kobojunkie: 4:59am On Jun 12, 2011|
I don't think we can ever be completely rid of the ignorant sector of any society, so I don't think we have to worry much of the ignorant folks in society. They will always exist. I do think we should worry more about the type of "educated minds" we continue to produce. Because these are the ones who wield the power over the ignorant crowd.
We have elected leaders, Ministers, Directors, who boast of having PHDs. Many of them have lived for extended periods in developed nations, and have come to learn how systems ought to work -- what makes them work, what makes sense and what does not -- sure one does not have to consciousness absorb these things as these systems in some ways force one to comply or face the consequences. But as soon as you move these individuals back to Nigeria, you find them acting in ways contrary to what their exposure and education demands. We have seen this happen over and over. Ignorance is not the issue here -- it has to be something else.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kobojunkie: 5:02am On Jun 12, 2011|
Kilode?!:No it does not. Even the serial killer down the street will tell you he is well aware of what is right and what is wrong but he of his own CHOOSES the bad. I don't think we need to make this more complex than it really is at this point. We have explored this simple issue on the thread on what constitutes smartness, and I think we have made it clear that even lesser primates have common sense and apply it to their own good, and the good of the herd.
Tree Monkey's don't have a clue what gravity is . . they don't know what scientists have said of it, nor do they care. These monkeys however understand what will likely happen if they were to let go of the branch they cling to, and so they hold on.
No one needs a deep understanding of the rest of the world to figure out that when food is scarce in his small bit of the world, it is a good idea to get back to the farms if one expects to survive. It's not rocket science.
Our forefathers who spent the most of their days on the farms were as uneducated, unexposed, and ignorant as they came. They did not know of the world but they understood that if they didn't farm, they would not have food and would probably starve to death. They did not LOVE to slave away under the hot sun most of the days of their lives -- they simply understood that it had to be done if they wanted to survive as a unit.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kobojunkie: 5:12am On Jun 12, 2011|
No one is suggesting we not exercise caution -- again, that would be common sense. What I wonder though is if you would be playing this same tune if the same Government had instead decided on a Nigerian investor. Is this call for caution simply because the investor is a Korean?
In one of your earlier posts, you highlighted the "Land grab" issue that has been on for well over a decade now, and I wonder why you felt to bring that up now, when the world has been doing that for decades. Heck, Saudis, Europians, and Asians have been buying up American properties for a long time now, Why are we up in arms that the same is happening in Africa, or our Nigeria? Why the fear mongering?
Also, we have invested little to nothing in improving argriculture in our country for at least the last twelve years. Some years ago the governor claimed it released $200 million to help aid local farmers but much of that money disappeared into the mist where all else does in Nigeria. Some three or four years ago, Saraki imported farmers to help till our lands in Kwara -- people wailed even then, but today, thanks to that, our agricultural exports have increased. Yes, Foreigners already tilling our land, and some, if not much of what is produced is already shipped out to feed other nations. So, what is with the fear mongering in this korean investors case?
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kilode1: 5:47am On Jun 12, 2011|
^^^I highlighted the land grab issue to point to the need for caution, not because of any fear mongering, and if you read my comment on page one below the article, you will see my conclusion about the need to proceed with caution and reference to my belief that the new Ekiti Governor has a good head on his shoulder and should therefore strike a good deal.
Americans have their own foreign investors to worry about, not my problem really if they sell their country to China.
But at the same time, if you follow US issues very well I'm sure you are aware of how America blocked the sale of about 5 or six US Ports to DP World, a well regarded, very efficient ports management company owned by Dubai. They gave national security reasons, many US business leaders argued in support of the deal including the president and many argued against it. Obviously America lost a great deal because some people believe they need to protect America from outside control, same reason some of the folks here are giving.
Now, you can ask what is the alternative for us? And I'll say as long as the Ekiti State Leaders can strike a good deal that will benefit the people then no problem, or better still develop the land themselves, but will they? Can they strike a good deal, will they put the land to good use by themselves? I really don't know for sure, all I can do is to point out the dangers since they already highlighted the benefits.
Concerning your wonderings about what I will say if they were Nigerian investors, I've urged caution about selling stuff to Dangote and co, and sometimes I support it, it all depends on the information I have and the circumstances surrounding an issue. My position is not rigid. Though i'm very selfish on behalf of my own people.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kobojunkie: 5:58am On Jun 12, 2011|
You acknowledge that properties are sold in countries like America even though not all deals are honored for some reason or the other. And below, you did list the reason for why the sale was rejected.
Notice how the above DOES NOT REMOVE from the fact that your so-called land-grab is NOT UNIQUE to Nigeria. Most all countries out there sell/lease land/properties to people/investors of other nationalities on a regularly basis. So I still see no reason for the "article" in this.
The alternatives are no brainers. But the reality is, rather than leave the land, it is better to allow those who will put it to good use, to take advantage. You speak of a good deal , but I can't help but ask, what exactly a good deal would be, in this case?
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kilode1: 6:02am On Jun 12, 2011|
@kobo I'm not sure you get my argument about half-knowledge, arrogance and all that and how it relates to our society, unfortunately, I don't have the time to commit today. So maybe we'll continue later.
BTW, I'm sorry, My forefathers were not uneducated, ignorant and unexposed to the knowledge needed to run their own society.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kobojunkie: 6:11am On Jun 12, 2011|
Good for you! My greatgrandfather was an uneducated, ignorant, and unexposed man, and I have no qualms revealing that. He was not necessarily a leader in his society but he knew to take care of his family as a farmer. He was not rich -- and did not need to sit through biology classes to understand that people needed food to survive, and that if he did not farm to feed his people, and those around him, people would starve to death. He farmed most all the days of his life, and most of his conversations were on what he learnt during his time out in the fields.
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kilode1: 6:16am On Jun 12, 2011|
Did I kilode?! Mention that land grab is UNIQUE to Nigeria? I don't get your point are you saying we should sell lands blindly because as you said "Most countries do it"
So no need to worry or point to articles or be cautious, because "most countries sell lands now" Is that your argument?
Did you read Katsumoto's economist article, did you read the one I posted? You think the caution raised is unnecessary? Really?
Are you saying you see no reason for caution and a careful assessment of the geo-politics of land and food issues? Knowing fully well how inconsiderate Nigerian politicians can be
|Re: Korean Investors To Lift Agric In Ekiti With U.s.$400 Million by Kilode1: 6:34am On Jun 12, 2011|
Kobo, I'm glad to hear about your Grandfather, he's was very much like mine. Mine was a Cocoa farmer, he was not a Nobel Prize winner, but I heard he judged issues with great wisdom. He was not uneducated within the context of the society he lived in. He was not ignorant about his culture and the methods necessary to provide for his family within his village, he had tools to help him survive the world he found himself in at his time. He lived great and aged gracefully.
One day maybe I'll tell you more about his other great exploits, Okunrin meta fun ra ara e!
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