tempusfugit:
Lol abeg go sit down one place abeg I nor ready for argument

which argument U wan argue? nor be this Europe wey I don live more than 21 years ni? or u think say nah internet talk I dey recite?

taylormed2:

America
Finland
Israel
Denmark
Norway
Italy
France
Hong Kong
The list goes on. Price of fuel in Nigeria is amongst the cheapest in the world rn.

And what is the minimum and average wage in those countries compared to Nigeria

taylormed2:

I understand that point. You are the first sensible person in my mentions that actually wanted to reason.

Lol.. you know the situation in the country isn't palatable so a lot of people are losing it. Not entirely their fault.

olumzzz:

And what is the minimum and average wage in those countries compared to Nigeria

So you believed what that guy posted that these guys can sell fuel to 9ja for less than N300/N400?

erico2k2:

Your lot like to just post Rubbish, you typed names of Countries why did you not put the Pump Price for example the Pump Price of PMS in Hong Kong is above $2.00 and France is $1.8 as we speak are you high on something ? and you are here typing misleading statements, I dont know why yah do this to yourselves.

And please, what is the naira equivalent of $2?? That's above NGN1,000

taylormed2:

And please, what is the naira equivalent of $2?? That's above NGN1,000

are you normal. Do you earn in dollars or in Naira. You can't be earning in Naira and be spending in dollar equivalent

michlins:
are you normal. Do you earn in dollars or in Naira. You can't be earning in Naira and be spending in dollar equivalent

another one, so if I'm too compare price with foreign countries, I can't convert their currency? This your quote was unwarranted.

erico2k2:

If you summarise all what you wrote its simply put, they were over dependant on OIL, The next factor was corruption same as Nigeria, the problem of subsidy is not the amount spent rather the corruption involved.

Subsidy is good...but the problem with subsides is(and i would like you to read this with an open mind, because I am not defending Buhari, or GEJ, or any bad Nigerian leadership, but pointing out why subsidy in Nigeria is not sustainable.)

1. In Nigeria , and Venezuela, we use money from the SAME oil revenue to pay for subsidy...which works when oil prices are above sustenance level (right now for Nigeria, our breakeven oil price is 133 dollars per barrel)....but not when oil prices are below $100 or $50 per barrel, or even less...that's when we take loans to make up for the amount spent.

Other countries pay for subsidy out of taxes raised..income taxes. Nigeria does not do so..and we don't have the money to do so. Not when less than 40% of the population pays income tax to the federal government.

2.Also, let's be honest, subsides lend themselves to corruption well well. Because basically, that's free government money. Add the fact that one can easily make fake subsidy claims when you are close to power.

Plus it isn't corruption that is causing the most rise in subsidy claims...it is , quite frankly, export of subsidized fuel to other African countries. We have wasted billions subsiding fuel illegaly for all our neighbours, and for several other African countries...simply because it is easy to buy fuel here at 165 naira, and sell it at N300 or above in Niger, Benin and Ghana self.(And it cannot be stopped unless we build a large border wall, and pay every customs and excise man and woman salaries of N300000 and above.). Add the lying on the bit of subsidy paid to transporters to keep the price of transporting fuel from differing from place to place...

3.Rising cost of producing petrol. Right now it costs N256 to bring in one liter of petrol...and the reason why it is that cheap is because we refine it into very dirty LOW standard PMS abroad...instead of refining it at a standard refinery...because we want to save on spending subsidy money.

I mean, in 2012, fuel cost N65 at the pump and N99 landing. Now it costs N162-5 AT the petrol station and N256 or more landing.....and it is going to keep on rising. And we don't have enough oil revenue to pay for the difference.

4.Also, we damaged our refinereis by subsidsing fuel

Fuel subsides means that for decades our refineries were forced to sell fuel at a loss, meaning they could not pay for maintenance, could not pay for upgrades, and could not pay for expansion, or even new refinereis. Workers salaires were paid directly from the oyel revenue. And at the end of the day, we had refinereis that don't work, that are messed up...because when you sell at a loss, and pay a subsidy that does not cover the loss, we don't care.

That's why countries that subsidise like Venezuela went from refining 900000 BARRELS per day at their main refinery to refining 100000 per day at the same refinery...all for selling fuel below N40 per liter. (And it costs far more to refine fuel in that country because high sulphur content...but governments of Venezuela skimped on paying for costs of maintenance because....we must keep fuel cheap for everyone...and it was not just the Chavez and Maduro admins...a lot of past admins of Venenzuela, including the pro-US ones did the same thing.)



At the end of the day, subsides don't work. Either we end them now, or we take another loan, or we end up forcing millions of Nigerians not paying income tax to the government to pay, regardless of their level of poverty or riches...to find money to fund subsides.

who buy this cars most, opel corsa, Fiat tipo, marzda 2,Toyota Yaris and aygo, ford fiiesta and focus, peogeot 208, most of this small cars were created for European markets, things re changing gradually compared to 20 years ago thanks to introduction of suvs and creation of new technology for better fuel comsuption, fuel consumption is a big and number one factor for European before buy a car,
you buying a car with powerful engine doesn't means nothing when putting into critical consideration behavior of a society

erico2k2:

which argument U wan argue? nor be this Europe wey I don live more than 21 years ni? or u think say nah internet talk I dey recite?

Well, i think, I'd just make sure i get those dead hybrid electric vehicles, and buy them. At least that would cushion in some of the fuel consumption issues na.

tempusfugit:
who buy this cars most, opel corsa, Fiat tipo, marzda 2,Toyota Yaris and aygo, ford fiiesta and focus, peogeot 208, most of this small cars were created for European markets, things re changing gradually compared to 20 years ago thanks to introduction of suvs and creation of new technology for better fuel comsuption, fuel consumption is a big and number one factor for European before buy a car,
you buying a car with powerful engine doesn't means nothing when putting into critical consideration behavior of a society

All those cars you just mentioned have their equivalent of 2 litre Engines, and that isn't small.

backbencher:


Subsidy is good...but the problem with subsides is(and i would like you to read this with an open mind, because I am not defending Buhari, or GEJ, or any bad Nigerian leadership, but pointing out why subsidy in Nigeria is not sustainable.)

1. In Nigeria , and Venezuela, we use money from the SAME oil revenue to pay for subsidy...which works when oil prices are above sustenance level (right now for Nigeria, our breakeven oil price is 133 dollars per barrel)....but not when oil prices are below $100 or $50 per barrel, or even less...that's when we take loans to make up for the amount spent.

Other countries pay for subsidy out of taxes raised..income taxes. Nigeria does not do so..and we don't have the money to do so. Not when less than 40% of the population pays income tax to the federal government.

2.Also, let's be honest, subsides lend themselves to corruption well well. Because basically, that's free government money. Add the fact that one can easily make fake subsidy claims when you are close to power.

Plus it isn't corruption that is causing the most rise in subsidy claims...it is , quite frankly, export of subsidized fuel to other African countries. We have wasted billions subsiding fuel illegaly for all our neighbours, and for several other African countries...simply because it is easy to buy fuel here at 165 naira, and sell it at N300 or above in Niger, Benin and Ghana self.(And it cannot be stopped unless we build a large border wall, and pay every customs and excise man and woman salaries of N300000 and above.). Add the lying on the bit of subsidy paid to transporters to keep the price of transporting fuel from differing from place to place...

3.Rising cost of producing petrol. Right now it costs N256 to bring in one liter of petrol...and the reason why it is that cheap is because we refine it into very dirty LOW standard PMS abroad...instead of refining it at a standard refinery...because we want to save on spending subsidy money.

I mean, in 2012, fuel cost N65 at the pump and N99 landing. Now it costs N162-5 AT the petrol station and N256 or more landing.....and it is going to keep on rising. And we don't have enough oil revenue to pay for the difference.

4.Also, we damaged our refinereis by subsidsing fuel

Fuel subsides means that for decades our refineries were forced to sell fuel at a loss, meaning they could not pay for maintenance, could not pay for upgrades, and could not pay for expansion, or even new refinereis. Workers salaires were paid directly from the oyel revenue. And at the end of the day, we had refinereis that don't work, that are messed up...because when you sell at a loss, and pay a subsidy that does not cover the loss, we don't care.

That's why countries that subsidise like Venezuela went from refining 900000 BARRELS per day at their main refinery to refining 100000 per day at the same refinery...all for selling fuel below N40 per liter. (And it costs far more to refine fuel in that country because high sulphur content...but governments of Venezuela skimped on paying for costs of maintenance because....we must keep fuel cheap for everyone...and it was not just the Chavez and Maduro admins...a lot of past admins of Venenzuela, including the pro-US ones did the same thing.)



At the end of the day, subsides don't work. Either we end them now, or we take another loan, or we end up forcing millions of Nigerians not paying income tax to the government to pay, regardless of their level of poverty or riches...to find money to fund subsides.

Bro I read all what you wrote but you made loads of assumptions there let me bring you to 2012, you said fuel landing cost was N99? that's assumption or one of the lies told by FG.There was not a time we landed fuel N99 cos 2012 cheapest Pump price across the Eu was above £1.
and If I have not been in some of these so cheap fuel countries fru holidays or work I wont have known better.
Now I will ask you once again to put your thinking hat on if you was an importer where and waht country would you import fuel from and land it for at least N300? think
And as for subsidy it work when the leaders have good intensions, let me give you a big example, the UK govt subsidise fuel(Diesel) for nearly up to 50% for ages. This was to help farmers. They also subsidised solar panels to encourage people to buy it. Even housing and the Almighty Housing is propped up by the UK govt. Cos they are honest enough, it works.

taylormed2:

And please, what is the naira equivalent of $2?? That's above NGN1,000

@ todays rate its N818.
So my question to you is this, If you land fuel @818 naira, that's even minus transport insurance tax and VAT how much are you willing to sell it as a Business MAN??

erico2k2:

Bro I read all what you wrote but you made loads of assumptions there let me bring you to 2012, you said fuel landing cost was N99? that's assumption or one of the lies told by FG.There was not a time we landed fuel N99 cos 2012 cheapest Pump price across the Eu was above £1.
and If I have not been in some of these so cheap fuel countries fru holidays or work I wont have known better.
Now I will ask you once again to put your thinking hat on if you was an importer where and waht country would you import fuel from and land it for at least N300? think
And as for subsidy it work when the leaders have good intensions, let me give you a big example, the UK govt subsidise fuel(Diesel) for nearly up to 50% for ages. This was to help farmers. They also subsidised solar panels to encourage people to buy it. Even housing and the Almighty Housing is propped up by the UK govt. Cos they are honest enough, it works.

Well the N99 sum was what was in the media at the.time, plus for some time now we have been sending our crude oil to cheap foreign refineries to produce low quality fuel for cheap

The one pound fuel is not refined in the same place. It is refined in standard refineries. Hence the cost.

In brief we send crude to be refined in substandard refineries abroad to keep the cost of production cheap. If we refined it in standard refineries.at high price, we would have been paying 3 trillion or more or subsides per annum by 2015

Plus ultimately the main issue with subsides is that they aren't funded from income tax revenues, they are funded from crude oil , which is never at a price that Is sustainable for us.

Which is kind of my point .

You want subsidy,then you make the 70% of Nigerians who don't pay income tax to pay up so that we can have funds for it. Or we remove it

Night

backbencher:


Well the N99 sum was what was in the media at the.time, plus for some time now we have been sending our crude oil to cheap foreign refineries to produce low quality fuel for cheap

The one pound fuel is not refined in the same place. It is refined in standard refineries. Hence the cost.

In brief we send crude to be refined in substandard refineries abroad to keep the cost of production cheap. If we refined it in standard refineries.at high price, we would have been paying 3 trillion or more or subsides per annum by 2015

Plus ultimately the main issue with subsides is that they aren't funded from income tax revenues, they are funded from crude oil , which is never at a price that Is sustainable for us.

Which is kind of my point .

You want subsidy,then you make the 70% of Nigerians who don't pay income tax to pay up so that we can have funds for it. Or we remove it

Night

well N99 was the lie told, what Nigerians should have asked then was from where and what country are they landing it from @N99. so why lie? if nopt that they have thier own refinaries they xport oils to and import fuel from either in NIgeria or near abroad.
As for subsidy , they should carry on paying cos this is the only money the people of Nigeria get for free from teh FG
Who told you we dont Buy fuel from a standard refinery and since you are the o ne mentioning Standard refinery can I pick your brains a little? could you now tell us from waht refinery we import fuel from that is not so standard?
Bear in mind we import from India and china loads.

Compared to big cars thats small, this cars i mentioned re the most fuel efficient in circulation hence they re super popular in Europe streets

erico2k2:

All those cars you just mentioned have their equivalent of 2 litre Engines, and that isn't small.

erico2k2:

You are missing the point, do you think anyone can buy Petrol for N600/ltr??

Yes we can it won't be so high forever.

JohnOkolo:


Yes we can it won't be so high forever.

What you are saying is that its OK to use 70% of your income for transportation, do you think that's right?

erico2k2:

@ todays rate its N818.
So my question to you is this, If you land fuel @818 naira, that's even minus transport insurance tax and VAT how much are you willing to sell it as a Business MAN??

Ur bank de charge u 414 per dollar??
In summary, back to topic
I'm not comparing Nigeria to other countries, but we all agree that more money in government would help the country if managed well. My problem is not subsidy removal, my problem is whether they'll have anything to show after removing it.

taylormed2:

Ur bank de charge u 414 per dollar??
In summary, back to topic
I'm not comparing Nigeria to other countries, but we all agree that more money in government would help the country if managed well. My problem is not subsidy removal, my problem is whether they'll have anything to show after removing it.

My friend you are shifting the goalpost in the middle of the match, you are veering to the right were I have stood all along. We never talked about post subsidy, we were talking about removal of subsidy. The bank rate of $$$ is not sustainable at the CBN rate hence we have multiple rates. Today I wire £££ to my bank account in Nigeria @ 750, can the CBN match that answer NO, so who props the difference when someone wants to buy goods via CBN in the UK? I leave that for you to answer and tell me if that is not another form of subsidy to friends and family of the govt and those in high places.

erico2k2:

What you are saying is that its OK to use 70% of your income for transportation, do you think that's right?

It will never get to #600 Naira per litre understand that, it will fall in the range of #320 -#350. The Govt subsidize Fuel, Energy(NEPA), and so much it's already made as a law to go, so brace up or take the next flight off the country.

I tell you subsidy will go and life will continue and be better with time.

JohnOkolo:



It will never get to #600 Naira per litre understand that, it will fall in the range of #320 -#350. The Govt subsidize Fuel, Energy(NEPA), and so much it's already made as a law to go, so brace up or take the next flight off the country.

I tell you subsidy will go and life will continue and be better with time.

ordinary Arithmetic you are failing, I have asked you and others countless times to name one country of the world from which you can Land petrol from at pump price of N400 at todays value without subsidy and you are here typing rubishhhhh

Antoeni:
We are very Prepared,
Once FG Announces the Removal, We Shutdown the Nation with a Massive Protect Nationwide

While this is a possibility, I don't see it happening under the present administration.

erico2k2:

ordinary Arithmetic you are failing, I have asked you and others countless times to name one country of the world from which you can Land petrol from at pump price of N400 at todays value without subsidy and you are here typing rubishhhhh

Keep on calculating, let's see how it goes 2022 is already here brace up for no subsidy and work hard

JohnOkolo:



Keep on calculating, let's see how it goes 2022 is already here brace up for no subsidy and work hard

I seee, you have no clue, has it not dawned on you yet that some of us do not live in Nigeria? So what's this garbage talk about work hard?

erico2k2:

I seee, you have no clue, has it not dawned on you yet that some of us do not live in Nigeria? So what's this garbage talk about work hard?

Work hard for your grandparents and siblings over here.

I stay in Nigeria I wonder why what I pay for fuel concerns you more than it concerns me.

JohnOkolo:



Work hard for your grandparents and siblings over here.

I stay in Nigeria I wonder why what I pay for fuel concerns you more than it concerns me.

This is what happen when one duel 2much in palm wine bars and hearsays! Good day

erico2k2:

This is what happen when one duel 2much in palm wine bars and hearsays! Good day

I don't know what to say to this bigot. Leave me let me pay for the fuel is it your payment

We're almost in the new year; let's see what will happen.

Alba3:
We're almost in the new year; let's see what will happen.

bro you remember 3 years ago they said they have removed subsidy, U 4get? its same carry talk they have jumped on again

Gaddafi1:


We don't have subsidy in 2022 budget so its illegal for government to continue subsidizing the product. Better to prepare for the worse situation. Who ever thought that the price of fuel will increase to N165/liter.

It can not be removed, if subsidy is removed, things go worse and those greedy guys there still wants to be in power

MOTIONTECH:
It can not be removed, if subsidy is removed, things go worse and those greedy guys there still wants to be in power

We are praying that it will not be removed but considering the fact that NLC is dead, who will fight for us.