DeepSight:
Not my phrase, as you evidently know,

DeepSight:
and certainly not a bed I was present to lay. I, and some seven billion others were not part of that small but colorful dramatis personae.

DeepSight:
This still sets out my case for me:

DeepSight:
it discloses ignorance pre-consumption and knowledge post-consumption. And there can be no honest freedom of choices in such circumstances.

DeepSight:
Come to think of it, what conception could the man possibly have had of death? None whatsoever.

DeepSight:
In which event nothing but mischief can be deduced on the part of the creator. This is aside from the inherent contradiction in a claim to the existence of freewill beside a dire warning to desist from opening the box which contains "everything."

DeepSight:
is a direct contradiction of freedom and a direct affirmation of control.

DeepSight:
This is evasive and escapist. I trust you inwardly do recognize the inescapable point as to how an absence of knowledge of good and evil inevitably denies any true freedom of choice. In this, it is way too lame to rest your oars on a simple warning not to touch the Pandora box. For in that very Pandora box rests the true information required for free choice.

DeepSight:
"Evidences? ? ?"

DeepSight:
It appears you are losing sight of the fact that I am only indulging you in following your explanation of a myth which involves a talking serpent.

DeepSight:
These fancy words do nothing to change your escapsim here.

DeepSight:
Frankly, I have heard much more profound takes on the Eden allegory than that which you have offered here.

DeepSight:
Beware, I am not lazy in these matters - all the same do not mistake me for one ready to be fed fat on the presuppositions of a myth or folk allegory.

DeepSight:
I would rather think that you are the one with a myopic view of them if you suppose them to be individual historical human beings - as opposed to the primordial spirit of man in its pre-existent state untainted by the knowledge of matter. He made them clothes of animal skin. I wonder what you make of that. Dig deep.

DeepSight:
Why would the writer sabotage his own tale, my friend.

DeepSight:
Its still not clear to me how you know this for a fact and its somewhat disturbing that you take the allegory as a historical document.

DeepSight:
Oh, I have, believe me, there used to be a golden age on this board, years and years ago. Take a peek into the past on this board and you will be surprised. Its just that there are so many closed minded people who will not even entertain a discussion of anything outside their worldview - and for this I appreciate your sort.

DeepSight:
I fail to see what possible test may disprove the existence of a set basket of choices by which our alleged freedom is circumscribed. Or do you want to hand me the choice not to have been born?

DeepSight:
Or the choice to have been born female rather than male. Or the choice to lack a libido. Or the choice to physically exist without consumption of living things. Or the choice to avoid disease and death. You cant my brother. There are a great many immutable and adamantine factors which circumscribe all our possible choices.

Fiscus105:
Questioning unquestionable God?

Hope you know the meaning of unquestionable sha?

DeepSight:
Questioning the description of God offered by most religious thought.

DeepSight:
God ITSELF

DeepSight:
... is, and always will be, utterly ineffable.

KnownUnknown:
Ineffable is a fancy word for nonsense. It’s ineffable because it is nonsense. It is ineffable because after rubbishing the extrapolation of a human being, with all its accompanying superlatives, that is god, you’re left with abstract nonsense.

Language works by creating mental pictures which are based on objects in reality or an abstraction of such objects.

I can tell you about an upside down tree that has rainbow colored leaves and golden sap. Even though no such thing exists in reality as we know it(it’s possible such a thing exists somewhere in the universe) you and another person can still create similar mental pictures of it.

God, soul, spirits, and other metaphysical jargon do not create mental pictures like that because they are nonsense. It’s either god is described as a powerful human or defined so abstractly that no mental image comes up.
Your interlocutor above states that “ If God is God then He is a singularity without origin and without end.” Apart from the opening tautology, the rest of the statement is meaningless assertions from a mind infested with the god idea and ignorant of science.

These people can never define the soul, can’t prove its function, and can’t tell you where its located but they are so sure of it. Same thing with their gods, spirits, and whatever fantastical creatures they’ve been taught to believe exists.

God is not ineffable. God is nonsense.

If there is a thing or things with the ability to do the actions attributed to Mr. God, that thing or those things are ineffable.

KnownUnknown:
I told a Christian that if man is made in the image of god, then god is a supernatural ape. Of course he vehemently disagreed.
However, he didn’t explain why humans have similarities to other Apes (of course he can’t explain anything) So I maintain that this god is Super Chimp. He gets angry and throws shit everywhere like an ape.

NNTR:
Genesis 1:26
Then God said,
“Let Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) make man in Our image, according to Our likeness
[not physical, but a spiritual personality and moral likeness];
and let them have complete authority over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the cattle,
and over the entire earth, and over everything that creeps and crawls on the earth.”

You revel in your humongous faux pas. Shame you didnt factor in that God is incorporeal

By the way, its not only Apes that human beings have similarities with, human beings share all sorts of other similarities with other animal species too.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
Without ranting and raving, but keeping it short and sweet, will tell you, that the soul resides inside the human body, and serves as a revolving door or gateway with access to the body with its links to your carnal desires and access to your spirit man, which potential to connect to the spirit realm.

The soul has four faculties, which namely are: consciousness, intellect, will and emotions.

The soul, is a 'holy grail', essentially, a thing which is eagerly pursued and vigorously sought after by the devil to either kill, steal or destroy. It equally also is eagerly pursued and vigorously sought after by the Creator to redeem, save, reconcile back to Himself and love.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
Without ranting and raving, but keeping it short and sweet, will tell you, that the Bunkum resides inside the human body, and serves as a revolving door or gateway with access to the spleen with its links to your carnal desires and access to your juju man, which potential to connect to the juju realm.

The Bunkum has four faculties, which namely are: sub-consciousness, intuition, volition and prime directives.

The Bunkum, is a 'sacred vessel', essentially, a thing which is eagerly pursued and vigorously sought after by the FORCE to either kill, steal or destroy, and sometimes f#ck. It equally also is eagerly pursued and vigorously sought after by the Artificer to redeem, save, reconcile back to Themselves and wondrous emotions.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
Without ranting and raving, but keeping it short and sweet, will tell you, that the soul resides inside the human body, and serves as a revolving door or gateway with access to the body with its links to your carnal desires and access to your spirit man, which potential to connect to the spirit realm.

The soul has four faculties, which namely are: consciousness, intellect, will and emotions.

The soul, is a 'holy grail', essentially, a thing which is eagerly pursued and vigorously sought after by the devil to either kill, steal or destroy. It equally also is eagerly pursued and vigorously sought after by the Creator to redeem, save, reconcile back to Himself and love.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:


What description of God specifically are you questioning?

ITSELF?

Is this a sincere comment you've made that can be attributed to say you said so?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

KnownUnknown:
My edit above is the same as your post below. Utter nonsense.

KnownUnknown:
Absolute bullshit. I’ll address the modicum of sense in your nonsense to wit:
The soul has four faculties, which namely are: consciousness, intellect, will and emotions.

Without a functioning brain there is no conciousness, intellect, will, or emotions. You might has well tell me the soul is responsible for respiration, blood flow, and bowel movements. Makes as much sense.

KnownUnknown:
It’s incorporeal yet has an image

KnownUnknown:
Man made god in his image.

KnownUnknown:
You can quote the Bible till your face turn blue, that doesn’t mean it’s claims are true.

KnownUnknown:
All that “spiritual personality” is the meaningless nonsense i referred to earlier. If I gave you a million and one chances to clarify the “spiritual personality” and you’d give me a million and two explanations.
The only humongous faux pax afoot is the one describing a human like entity ...

KnownUnknown:
... and claiming it created anything then criticizing those who aren’t convinced.

NNTR:
Ditto, as I doff my hat to you sir

You have every right to be born, because your rights, as a work of art, a work of creation, primarily, fundamentally and in the forefront are two, namely which are: right of existence and right to self preservation. The Creator gave A&E including us all, these two rights, now how we choose to use these two rights is entirely up to us

In the grand scheme of things, being born male or female is inconsequential and irrelevant because regardless of sex or sexuality, we all stand on the same footing in Christ.

As for lack of libido, so you like the koko, loll, and the rest that you listed after it, well that's all legacy of a fractured and fallen world we find ourselves currently living in, there are remedies for lack of libido though

I wasn't joking with you when and where I typed that, 'well if you insist that there is no genuine freedom, then why dont we test it out. Are you on? With you as the guinea pig, lets test if you have the gift of freewill or you dont have the gift of freewill. Let's test to see if, really, you are confined to an already determined program and find out, if all that you do is strictly within the said pre-defined program' but playing the escapism card is what you prefer because I didnt see you rising up to the occasion of accepting the challenge to be a guinea pig in testing out if you have freewill or dont have freewill

Life, as we currently have it, is like a game of cards. The hand that is dealt you, is determinism, now, the way you play it, is free will, loll.

NNTR:


Human beings are trichotomous, meaning they have body, spirit and soul.

The life of the flesh aka body is in the blood, while the life of the soul is in the spirit aka ruach aka breath of God

When some is clinically dead, meaning has brain death, the spirit aka ruach aka breath of God leaves the body, as it returns back to its Owner, God, the Creator. The body returns back to being dust, while the soul leaves the body enroute to a departure lounge area, to wait for Judgment Day date and the soul's departure destination

Yes, has abstract concepts such as love (i.e. unconditional love), unselfish concern for others, joy (i.e. feelings of great inner pleasure & happiness), peace, patience (i.e. not the ability to wait, but how we act while waiting) kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

It is really interesting and true that ever since God committed Himself to create human beings in His image and in accordance to the likeness of the Godhead, human beings have had the courage to want to return the favour or just completely and entirely deny His existence, loll

loll

Wow anthropomorphism

I am sure you have a convincing alternative narrative that explains how creation, including of course human beings and all came about

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

DeepSight:
A right is one thing, even if questionable here, but a desire is another thing altogether. Who told you I wanted to be born?
As far as I am concerned, being born into this world is a grave calamity.

DeepSight:
I am not a fan of arguments

DeepSight:
... like this about the "grand scheme of things" when used defensively in this way, because in the grand scheme of things, if one reflects on the universe or on eternity, then nothing happening on this infinitesimal grain of sand called the earth during this flash called our lives matters a jot.

DeepSight:
Besides its really presumptuous in a discussion about freewill to so languidly toss aside the consequences of a person's sex.

DeepSight:
Be serious.

DeepSight:
Feel free to proceed then, just dont be frustrated if the test you bring up necessarily fails and is shot down on some of the grounds I have already tried to hint you about.

DeepSight:
A common saying, and perhaps one that is to some extent heartwarming for many people. However I suspect you know as well as I do just how little control man has in much that transpires in life. You have been flinging bible verses at me as though its going out of fashion and without a thought as to whether I place any value on the Bible or not. So perhaps I should fling a few at you as well, which should rest the discussion from your own authority -

Exodus 33:19 - And the LORD said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Ephesians 1:4 - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will . . .

Acts 13:48 - When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

Deut 7:6-7 - For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth…

Romans 8:29 - For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Proverbs 16:4 - The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

Rev 13:8 - . . . and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

Jeremiah 1: 5- Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.

Romans 8:30 - And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

You see my friend, such verses in the bible abound - which unequivocally render clear the matter of predestination/ determinism as far as the ultimate consequence of our lives is concerned. The verses I have thrown up above are more than sufficient to end this matter of alleged freewill, and show that as I have said, there is nothing for the creator to judge but itself: Nonetheless, I am very familiar with the way religious apologists behave when confronted with the words of their own scripture which contradict that which they are advancing: they usually toss aside such scripture with a wave of the hand - the same scripture they try to use to bludgeon others over the head. I expect nothing less from you, you will toss aside these painfully clear verses as if they didnt even exist. Surprise me.

DeepSight:
On a side note, let me just drop here a few things that miss you. It misses you when you say that man is made in the image of God, that you thereby cede the argument.

DeepSight:
It misses you when you say that God is the owner of the spirit of man, that you thereby cede the argument.

DeepSight:
It misses you also, that with regard to the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, that the Lord laments, "behold the man has become as one of us, knowing good and evil." What is the meaning of this lamentation and why was this God seeking to prevent the man from becoming "as one of us, knowing good and evil."

DeepSight:
In spite of allegedly being made in the image of God.

DeepSight:
There is much more to the Eden allegory than your simplistic reading of it in my humble view.

KnownUnknown:
Go back to discussing with DeepSight, who’s at least willing to indulge your delusions. I’m not having a conversation about meaningless words and I can’t pretend your words make sense.
Bring a cogent or demonstrable explanation of soul and spirit , I might entertain your claims.

You are still discussing Adam and Eve like they were real people. Jesus f#cling Christ!!!

NNTR:
loll. Be blessed, brother.

KnownUnknown:
F#ck off. Lol. That duplicitous Christian goodwill is fooling no one.

NNTR:
loll. You are in good company. You're among friends brah and that was a honest and heartfelt wish. I bear you no grudge

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

KnownUnknown:
My f#ck off was honest and heartfelt too. I don’t think much of you.

NNTR:
No one is forced to continue enjoying their rights of existence and self-preservation. If you didnt want to be born, then armed with the choice to exercise your gift of freewill, at the edge of any nearest cliff, will solve that conundrum.

If nothing matters, then why arent you a villain, why arent you a jerk, why arent you a rogue, why arent you a douche bag etc?

Tell me clearly when you are ready and I'll pronto set things up in motion so to get the ball rolling for it

Mister man, my dear, easy to talk to, friend, notice that I present scripture to buttress a point made or point being made.

There is nothing in any of the above scriptures you shared that when contextually read, meaning when not read in isolation, doesnt makes sense.

The Creator, after all is Omniscient, so every one of your listed verses up there, are easily understood. They are comprehensible to me.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

DeepSight:
Not quite because being born and then choosing to exit your life probably on account of misery is not the same as not having been born at all.

DeepSight:
You dont know that I am not these things, and at all events there are many who are.

DeepSight:
Go ahead.

DeepSight:
This is sad. You rather disingenuously deploy the excuse of omniscience whereas most of the verses alluded not just to foreknowledge - they included fore-action: specific acts of designation and appointment which disclose determinism.

DeepSight:
In other words, those verse disclosed not just a God knowing the future but a God dictating future events and appointing people to future deeds.

KnownUnknown:


I told a Christian that if man is made in the image of god, then god is a supernatural ape. Of course he vehemently disagreed.
However, he didn’t explain why humans have similarities to other Apes (of course he can’t explain anything) So I maintain that this god is Super Chimp. He gets angry and throws shit everywhere like an ape.

efficiencie:


Your conclusion about DOg being a supernatural ape is based on the assumption that since man has similar characteristics with Apes then DOg must be an Ape but your assumption has flaws. (1) You mention "Ape" like that is the description of a single specie and you claim DOg must be like such a specie. Presently there are about 20 species of apes (Source) so which of these species is the exact form of DOg. Remember you have to search for the earliest specie of apes in the evolutionary tree. Good luck with that search. (2) For your statement to make sense you have to also assume that man evolved from Apes (and hence Apes were created in the image of DOg). However there are questions you cannot answer concerning the evolution of man from apes. (a) Evolution still cannot conclusively tell us how matter transited from inorganic to organic. (b) Evolution could not explain the Cambrian explosion. (c) At what point in the evolutionary tree did the mind evolve? (that is even if we know what the "mind" is) (d) We are yet to discover the site of the mind-body interaction and we also don't know how mind-body interaction evolved. (e) Evolution does not explain the evidence of intelligent design observed in all of creation (the double helix structure of the DNA, the fine-tuning of the cosmos with the incredibly fine precision of physical constants, the comprehensibility of the cosmos and the incredibly impossible odds that the universe generated information by accident (origin of information accident).

These points all attack your tacit recourse to evolution as the basis of your argument! Quite frankly you have to be an undisputed champion among fools to believe that random undirected events happening over billions upon billions of years could account for the amazing levels of complex ordering we see today. Someone will tell me that the appearance of the Fibonacci sequence in flowers, plants, crustaceans etc is a sheer accident. Madness on an unimaginable level.

efficiencie:


As expected...they start as though they are intellectuals but when they encounter what seems to be a peer they resort puerile shenanigans. Lol.

NNTR:
Not on account of misery but on account of put up with life or shut up, if you dont want to top up.
One moment ago, you were flirting with the idea that you didnt ask to be born. If thats so, why are you still lingering about, as if like a toxic smelly fart

You havent the balls to go through. You love life too much. You enjoy chopping life and so you'll do everything with your gift of freewill, not to see the test through to the end. I'll spare you the my neighbour the humiliation

When Pharaoh refused to let the Israelites go, wasn't Pharaoh exercising his gift of freewill?

Why did angel Gabriel need to visit Mary to tell her she'll have a Son? Perhaps to obtain her consent to be a willing partner ?, loll.
The omniscience of God doesnt interfere with the choices we make from out of exercising our gift of freewill from

Did God dictate to you what side of the bed to get out from this morning, lol, smh?
Did God specifically appoint you to log on to NL today?

KnownUnknown:


Your post was so painfully stupid that there is no need for conversation. Most of you are either too uneducated or so bumptiously ignorant that only those with patience like Lordreed can be bothered with you. Your post was nonsense from beginning to end.


I mean you are so painfully dumb that you cite the cambrian explosion as evidence against evolution. I truly can’t deal with the level of stupidity displayed. Your questions are absolutely inane and you are too uneducated to even realize it. Why should I bother?!

Your are so moronic even your linked source detract from whatever asinine point you’re trying to make.

DeepSight:


Regardless how moronic you might consider his post, I am not sure that this ad-hominem soaked invective does anything to address anything, good sir. I for one, am tired of those who respond to any critique of the theory of evolution with the tired old lame line that the critique is too stupid to be worth a response. Even I, who believe in evolution, have serious questions about it, and honestly it is simply tiresome to have these sorts of haughty escapist responses when those questions are raised.

This is not to say that I have endorsed his particular line of questioning wholesale.

KnownUnknown:


I don’t care to address these people’s misunderstanding of evolution. I have no reason to dispute the theory or any other scientific theory that has been validated and put to practical use like evolution. If they or you want to understand it further,it is a google search away or you can take a college class. Opposition to evolution is usually borne out of incredulity stoked by religious or similar sentiments. If scientific knowledge in that part of the world was up to snuff, theory of evolution would have been used to eradicate malaria by now because countless people and resources would have been devoted to it. You wonder why Africa can’t produced vaccines?! But I digress.

My haughtiness is directly proportional to their sanctimonious ignorance.

That been said, evolution is also the state of the universe. Nothing is permanent but change as they say, so what is really far fetched about biological evolution and all it entails?

So when some people say the universe is fine tuned or ordered, their assumptions are not supported because everything is changing and to claim order/fine tuning is to imply a goal that they have no support for.

I’m not saying I am an expert in biological evolution, but there is no reason for me to argue against it. Now if I had a problem with it, I’d go study it and then try to disprove it.

The only reason the religious don’t argue against E=MC2 is because they don’t view it as a threat to their beliefs.

sonmvayina:
What is judged ?

Man is a composite of God's breath and dust of the earth. When God takes his breath man experiences "death" his soul ceases to exist. The body is buried and becomes one with the earth. His spirit belongs to God and returns to God...

What majority of the comments here which are basically Christians with varying degree of diffencies fails to grasp is the fact that God created man like this or this way. What ever we have the capacity to accomplish or achieve has been inputed already whether it is evil or good(in our eyes) .
We are Gods having a human experience. When we die we go back being God. Waiting for another opportunity to have another go.

The egyptian book of the dead put it in a better perspective. "I am 1 seeing myself divided, I am 2, I am 4 I am 8.......
The purpose of death is to give meaning to life. Without death life will be meaningless. It is called the principles of duality.

God is the universal consciousness fully embodied not a Jewish man that was nailed to a cross. That is just the height of insult and mockery..