olusegxz:


Hazardous materials have a specific list. Even in the nurse report she said sharps were left behind. Which is a discrepancy from what the doctors said. According to the doctors only waste matter was left behind. Anyhoo I think this trend is fast becoming one of hate and unnecessary slandering. Nursing is a respectable profession and one that is vital. No one is disputing this. So mutual ward respect is key. This trend is specific to the occurrence that occurred and the nurse on duty was wrong for her actions no matter how it is looked at. Could all parties have handled it more maturely; yes. Could the fact that they were both women play a big role in how things turned out; yes.

Either the doctor or the nurse is telling a lie
There's no need to side any part, until investigations are concluded

Let everyone do the right thing, dispose what ever you have used whether gloves or guaze and keep the environment neat at all time

Have a nice day

olusegxz:


A doctor can clerk, treat, support and post monitor a patient. Only a doctor on the ground is allowed for standard requirements but if a hospital has only a nurse on duty during working hours with no justable cause it can be sanctioned. Once again I didn't create the delegation of duties, hate it or love it. It doesn't change this role. Nairaland is faceless, go to a hospital setting and make these claims not here.

Like I already said, everyone has their duties assigned to them. Health centres usually have only community health/public health nurses attend to patients there, and no sanction occurs. In standard hospitals, Nurses also clerk patients to have a baseline knowledge on the patients they are to take care of. Thats why we have Nurses notes. They treat with drugs prescribed by the doctor, support a lot and post monitor the patient. The Nurse stays the most with the patient. Maybe because most of you doctors are used to private hospital settings, you're not really familiar with the duties of the Nurse.

debola27:

Like I already said, everyone has their duties assigned to them. Health centres usually have only community health/public health nurses attend to patients there, and no sanction occurs. In standard hospitals, Nurses also clerk patients to have a baseline knowledge on the patients they are to take care of. Thats why we have Nurses notes. They treat with drugs prescribed by the doctor, support a lot and post monitor the patient. The Nurse stays the most with the patient. Maybe because most of you doctors are used to private hospital settings, you're not really familiar with the duties of the Nurse.

Are you a nurse? And what level of nursing education do you have. I do not say it to spite you just out of curiosity. It seems you have a misunderstanding of how a health facility works. When you say health centres do you mean PHCs or be specific. A primary health center is usually a sub health facility in very remote areas with no resident doctor. A nurse or even TBA is put to stand in and attend to very basic care. At least we don't want patients dieing. No where in the world can a nurse perform complete treatment of a patient so get your facts right. I do not mean your notes of recording vital signs etc. Even Nurse practitioners in the western world that have doctor level training have a strict limit of care. You can perform basic care but there will always be a doctor or a pharmacist that can be called upon. I have worked in LUTH for many years so I know perfectly how hospital systems run. Once again nairaland is faceless but there are real people behind these accounts. At this point I rest on this case. As I said every member of the health team is vital and important, but roles on what to do are specific, and it commensurates with the level of training you receive and the need to ensure lives are in safe hands.

olusegxz:


Are you a nurse? And what level of nursing education do you have. I do not say it to spite you just out of curiosity. It seems you have a misunderstanding of how a health facility works. When you say health centres do you mean PHCs or be specific. A primary health center is usually a sub health facility in very remote areas with no resident doctor. A nurse or even TBA is put to stand in and attend to very basic care. At least we don't want patients dieing. No where in the world can a nurse perform complete treatment of a patient so get your facts right. I do not mean your notes of recording vital signs etc. Even Nurse practitioners in the western world that have doctor level training have a strict limit of care. You can perform basic care but there will always be a doctor or a pharmacist that can be called upon. I have worked in LUTH for many years so I know perfectly how hospital systems run. Once again nairaland is faceless but there are real people behind these accounts. At this point I rest on this case. As I said every member of the health team is vital and important, but roles on what to do are specific, and it commensurates with the level of training you receive and the need to ensure lives are in safe hands.

Doctors do not have unlimited scope of practice so in that regard they are not different from Nurses.
A Psychiatrist cannot perform surgery etc
You claim that NOWHERE IN THE CAN A NURSE PERFORM COMPLETE TREATMENT
I do not know what or how you define "complete treatment" what does that mean?
In the UK there are Advance Nurse Practitioners and Nurse Consultants that practise independently of doctor TOTALLY running independent clinics and their own caseloads doing MORE than BASIC CARE and providing SPECIALIST INTERVENTIONS without medical supervision including PRESCRIBING specialist drugs which General Practitioner doctors CANNOT prescribe and offering specialist advice to GPs

Many Nigerian doctors run into trouble in the UK when they arrive with this outdated mentality

olusegxz:


Are you a nurse? And what level of nursing education do you have. I do not say it to spite you just out of curiosity. It seems you have a misunderstanding of how a health facility works. When you say health centres do you mean PHCs or be specific. A primary health center is usually a sub health facility in very remote areas with no resident doctor. A nurse or even TBA is put to stand in and attend to very basic care. At least we don't want patients dieing. No where in the world can a nurse perform complete treatment of a patient so get your facts right. I do not mean your notes of recording vital signs etc. Even Nurse practitioners in the western world that have doctor level training have a strict limit of care. You can perform basic care but there will always be a doctor or a pharmacist that can be called upon. I have worked in LUTH for many years so I know perfectly how hospital systems run. Once again nairaland is faceless but there are real people behind these accounts. At this point I rest on this case. As I said every member of the health team is vital and important, but roles on what to do are specific, and it commensurates with the level of training you receive and the need to ensure lives are in safe hands.

When i say health centres, i mean primary health centres. TBAs are not put in primary health centres as far as I know. The least person to attend to people in a PHC is the community health worker. And when you talk about complete treatment, it depends on what you mean. Nurses in PHC take care of ailments and child births then send patients home afterwards. I think that qualifies as complete treatment. They do not need a doctor for that. If any complication occurs, the patient is sent to a secondary or tertiary health centre where they are cared for by specialists. Nurses in secondary or tertiary centres do not prescribe for patients because that is the job of the doctor there. Nurses have their jobs, doctors have theirs. The only problem is when doctors feel the work of the Nurse is only limited to taking vital signs. And Nurse practitioners do not have 'doctor level training'. They have trainings that correspond with the standard level of care they are to give as Nurse practitioners.

debola27:

When i say health centres, i mean primary health centres. TBAs are not put in primary health centres as far as I know. The least person to attend to people in a PHC is the community health worker. And when you talk about complete treatment, it depends on what you mean. Nurses in PHC take care of ailments and child births then send patients home afterwards. I think that qualifies as complete treatment. They do not need a doctor for that. If any complication occurs, the patient is sent to a secondary or tertiary health centre where they are cared for by specialists. Nurses in secondary or tertiary centres do not prescribe for patients because that is the job of the doctor there. Nurses have their jobs, doctors have theirs. The only problem is when doctors feel the work of the Nurse is only limited to taking vital signs. And Nurse practitioners do not have 'doctor level training'. They have trainings that correspond with the standard level of care they are to give as Nurse practitioners.

A traditional birth attendant is a part of the primary health care team, especially in a rural setting. Many primary health centers do not even have Nurses. I do not know if apprenticeship qualifies as nursing. I think the drive to ensure every nurse has formal education is being pushed by the nursing body in Nigeria, there are still many nurses who have no bachelors. Also when I say a nurse practitioner has doctor level training I mean they are trained to diagnose. If you call note writing as diagnosing then you clearly do not understand what that word means. Nurses in Nigeria do not diagnose. Period.

aribisala0:

Doctors do not have unlimited scope of practice so in that regard they are not different from Nurses.
A Psychiatrist cannot perform surgery etc
You claim that NOWHERE IN THE CAN A NURSE PERFORM COMPLETE TREATMENT
I do not know what or how you define "complete treatment" what does that mean?
In the UK there are Advance Nurse Practitioners and Nurse Consultants that practise independently of doctor TOTALLY running independent clinics and their own caseloads doing MORE than BASIC CARE and providing SPECIALIST INTERVENTIONS without medical supervision including PRESCRIBING specialist drugs which General Practitioner doctors CANNOT prescribe and offering specialist advice to GPs

Many Nigerian doctors run into trouble in the UK when they arrive with this outdated mentality

Dear Colleage. There is no where did I mention that doctors have unlimited scope of practise. As a matter of fact having a specific role in the health team is what I mentioned. As a specialist myself insurance firms would not even cover you for treatment beyond your scope of practise. So when you talk about nurses diagnosing; I ask who signs the case note of that patient confirming the diagnosis and treatment plan. And who signs the drug regimen for the patient. I do not mean signing when a delegated task is given. Kindly post an attachment where a nurse signs a patients case note for a diagnosis.

debola27:

When i say health centres, i mean primary health centres. TBAs are not put in primary health centres as far as I know. The least person to attend to people in a PHC is the community health worker. And when you talk about complete treatment, it depends on what you mean. Nurses in PHC take care of ailments and child births then send patients home afterwards. I think that qualifies as complete treatment. They do not need a doctor for that. If any complication occurs, the patient is sent to a secondary or tertiary health centre where they are cared for by specialists. Nurses in secondary or tertiary centres do not prescribe for patients because that is the job of the doctor there. Nurses have their jobs, doctors have theirs. The only problem is when doctors feel the work of the Nurse is only limited to taking vital signs. And Nurse practitioners do not have 'doctor level training'. They have trainings that correspond with the standard level of care they are to give as Nurse practitioners.

Also when you talk about child birth in PHCs, I stand to be corrected, but I do not think a nurse who is not a mid wife can lead that team. That, as far as I am concerned is where the TBAs come in. You will be surprised how trained the certified traditional birth attendants are in delivering babies.

olusegxz:


A traditional birth attendant is a part of the primary health care team, especially in a rural setting. Many primary health centers do not even have Nurses. I do not know if appretenship is qualified as nursing. I think the drive to ensure every nurse has formal education is being pushed by the nursing body in Nigeria, there are still many nurses who have no bachelors. Also when I say a nurse practitioner has doctor level training I mean they are trained to diagnose. If you call note writing as diagnosing then you clearly do not understand what that word means. Nurses in Nigeria do not diagnose. Period.

I don't know what you mean by note writing, and I don't think I said Nurses make medical diagnosis in secondary or tertiary health centres. Nurses have their own Nursing diagnosis that they make in the wards and that is used to take care of patients. This may probably be the first time you're hearing about Nursing diagnosis. You can browse about Nursing diagnosis and NANDA for more information.
As far às I know, TBAs do not work in formal primary health centres. They may be a part of primary health care, but they have their own centres where clients go to meet them. Some PHCs actually have just community health workers, and even these people also treat ailments. Every Registered Nurse has a formal education, whether they attended school of Nursing or the university. I think you mean that the Nursing body is pushing for more registered nurses to have a bachelor's degree.

olusegxz:


Dear Colleage. There is no where did I mention that doctors have unlimited scope of practise. As a matter of fact having a specific role in the health team is what I mentioned. As a specialist myself insurance firms would not even cover you for treatment beyond your scope of practise. So when you talk about nurses diagnosing; I ask who signs the case note of that patient confirming the diagnosis and treatment plan. And who signs the drug regimen for the patient. I do not mean signing when a delegated task is given. Kindly post an attachment where a nurse signs a patients case note for a diagnosis.

My point is doctors LIKE nurses are limited in their scope of practice. I am referring to your post below . It is left to you to clarify what you mean by "strict level" of care and if or how that is different for doctors or Nurses.
My point is everyone has their professional limits subject to regulation by their professional bodies
I really do not understand what you are talking about with your emphasis on "diagnosis"
I am telling you in the UK that nurses operate as independent practitioners and prescribers either as Advance Nurse Practitioners or Nurse Consultants. That means they Diagnose and treat without ANY medical input whatsoever They are INDEPENDENT CLINICIANS . So you alone know what you mean with this outdated idea of writing down diagnosis. By law you cannot issue a prescription without a diagnosis so even Paracetamol for Headache implies a diagnosis of "Headache"
An abscess or boil is a diagnosis so also is ringworm, which nurses diagnose and treat in Nigeria.
Nurses in the UK diagnose and treat ADHD, Depression, Anxiety and some Consultant Nurses Admit patients to hospital under their care with ZERO INPUT from doctors. Clearly this is beyond your orientation and exposure.

olusegxz:


A nurse or even TBA is put to stand in and attend to very basic care. At least we don't want patients dieing. No where in the world can a nurse perform complete treatment of a patient so get your facts right. I do not mean your notes of recording vital signs etc. Even Nurse practitioners in the western world that have doctor level training have a strict limit of care.

The implication from your words was that this strict level of care was peculiar to nurses otherwise what is the point of mentioning it. A paediatrician has no business treating adults or going beyond what he is accredited for

olusegxz:


Also when you talk about child birth in PHCs, I stand to be corrected, but I do not think a nurse who is not a mid wife can lead that team. That, as far as I am concerned is where the TBAs come in. You will be surprised how trained the certified traditional birth attendants are in delivering babies.

Most of the time, the community health Nurses employed in PHCs are midwives. A Nurse who is not a midwife won't deliver babies because he or she is not trained to do so. And TBAs have their own centres where they attend to clients as far as I know. You don't actually find them in a government primary health centre. And I know TBAs are well trained. Of course they are trained by Nurses

debola27:

I don't know what you mean by note writing, and I don't think I said Nurses make medical diagnosis in secondary or tertiary health centres. Nurses have their own Nursing diagnosis that they make in the wards and that is used to take care of patients. This may probably be the first time you're hearing about Nursing diagnosis. You can browse about Nursing diagnosis and NANDA for more information.
As far às I know, TBAs do not work in formal primary health centres. They may be a part of primary health care, but they have their own centres where clients go to meet them. Some PHCs actually have just community health workers, and even these people also treat ailments. Every Registered Nurse has a formal education, whether they attended school of Nursing or the university. I think you mean that the Nursing body is pushing for more registered nurses to have a bachelor's degree.

Sorry but this is where we draw the line. As far as I am concerned the so called nursing school system is part of the reason you have a problem with respect and recognisation. Which one is nursing school or university. What degree is nursing school. Please I won't converse with anyone who does not at least have a bachelors. Also educate yourself a primary health system is not run by nurses. It is still a health care system headed by a doctor. Who is the cmd of health centers. Who is the head of any clinic. So why not as a nurse go and set up a clinic and call it primary health center only. Excuse me but the more you converse the more you are making no sense. A nurse works under a doctor. And to state further in the health team hierarchy where there is a pharmacist, physiotherapist, psychologists and so on, if they work as a team the medical doctor heads. Even a nurse practitioner needs to have a doctor on record to refer to at all times. So this hate please get over it. It is only in Nigeria nurses want sit shoulder to shoulder with doctors. Where i work we have a doctors lounge and then a common lounge. A nurse not dare come sit there. But there is still respect across board. No one is saying nurses have no role, they do and a very important one.

olusegxz:


Sorry but this is where we draw the line. As far as I am concerned the so called nursing school system is part of the reason you have a problem with respect and recognisation. Which one is nursing school or university. What degree is nursing school. Please I won't converse with anyone who does not at least have a bachelors. Also educate yourself a primary health system is not run by nurses. It is still a health care system headed by a doctor. Who is the cmd of health centers. Who is the head of any clinic. So why not as a nurse go and set up a clinic and call it primary health center only. Excuse me but the more you converse the more you are making no sense. A nurse works under a doctor. Simple.

you really have a lot to learn. A Nurse can own a clinic and employ doctors to work for him or her. And even though CMDs of hospitals have been doctors for a while, other health professionals have been questioning that arrangement of why the doctor alone can be a CMD. And we aren't even talking about CMDs right now. We are talking about the health professionals that patients meet when they get to a PHC. You don't need to get so worked up. A Nurse does not work under a doctor. They work together. And talking about Nursing schools and Universities, Nurses that graduate from schools of Nursing already have a Registered Nursing certificate. They still go back to the university to spend an extra four years after the three years in Nursing school to get a BNSc so they can be at par with their colleagues the world over.
However, Whether it is just school of Nursing a Nurse attends, he or she is still not under a doctor. Each professional is trained to do different things and they have different bosses. You need to understand that

olusegxz:


Sorry but this is where we draw the line. As far as I am concerned the so called nursing school system is part of the reason you have a problem with respect and recognisation. Which one is nursing school or university. What degree is nursing school. Please I won't converse with anyone who does not at least have a bachelors. Also educate yourself a primary health system is not run by nurses. It is still a health care system headed by a doctor. Who is the cmd of health centers. Who is the head of any clinic. So why not as a nurse go and set up a clinic and call it primary health center only. Excuse me but the more you converse the more you are making no sense. A nurse works under a doctor. And to state further in the health team hierarchy where there is a pharmacist, physiotherapist, psychologists and so on, if they work as a team the medical doctor heads. Even a nurse practitioner needs to have a doctor on record to refer to at all times. So this hate please get over it. It is only in Nigeria nurses want sit shoulder to shoulder with doctors. Where i work we have a doctors lounge and then a common lounge. A nurse not dare come sit there. But there is still respect across board. No one is saying nurses have no role, they do and a very important one.

This is not about hate, this is for doctors to understand that other health professionals are their colleagues not their surbodinates. I don't know why that is hard to understand

debola27:

you really have a lot to learn. A Nurse can own a clinic and employ doctors to work for him or her. And even though CMDs of hospitals have been doctors for a while, other health professionals have been questioning that arrangement of why the doctor alone can be a CMD. And we aren't even talking about CMDs right now. We are talking about the health professionals that patients meet when they get to a PHC. You don't need to get so worked up. A Nurse does not work under a doctor. They work together. And talking about Nursing schools and Universities, Nurses that graduate from schools of Nursing already have a Registered Nursing certificate. They still go back to the university to spend an extra four years after the three years in Nursing school to get a BNSc so they can be at par with their colleagues the world over.
However, Whether it is just school of Nursing a Nurse attends, he or she is still not under a doctor. Each professional is trained to do different things and they have different bosses. You need to understand that

Debola debola lol. You are actually the first person I am communicating with on nairaland. And what an interesting conversation. Well we learn everyday but can a nurse register a clinic in Nigeria. I need to investigate that one. In 2011 when I left Nigeria only a doctor can register a clinic or health facility. Even a pharmacist needs a doctor to partner with to open a hospital. Just as a doctor needs to partner with a pharmacist to open a pharmacy even if that pharmacy is located in your clinic. Give facts do not give hear says. I know for a fact that a nurse cannot be the sole proprietor of a clinic or health center. Also do you belong to MDCN. Because that is the body that regulates and monitors health clinics etc.

debola27:

This is not about hate, this is for doctors to understand that other health professionals are their colleagues not their surbodinates. I don't know why that is hard to understand

Doctors in Nigeria and several countries are trained with that orientation EXPLICITLY.
They struggle when they travel to some countries and find it does not work like they are trained to expect.

You hear stuff in Nigerian Medical training like

Doctors are the head of the medical team.

Such ideas are resisted increasingly in the West and so there is tension

That culture in Nigeria is buttressed by the fact that many private hospitals are owned by doctors and they treat their staff like skivvies
It is difficult to come to terms with a physiotherapist, Occupational Therapist or psychologist saying " Thanks for your referral
I will do my own assessment and make my own intervention without your direct supervision.

debola27:

This is not about hate, this is for doctors to understand that other health professionals are their colleagues not their surbodinates. I don't know why that is hard to understand

Umm everyone has subordinates oo. Do you know in the west people would rather not be the one in charge, it is the person in charge that faces the most litigation. Even various doctors are subordinates to others colleages. Nurses are dear colleagues.

aribisala0:

My point is doctors LIKE nurses are limited in their scope of practice. I am referring to your post below . It is left to you to clarify what you mean by "strict level" of care and if or how that is different for doctors or Nurses.
My point is everyone has their professional limits subject to regulation by their professional bodies
I really do not understand what you are talking about with your emphasis on "diagnosis"
I am telling you in the UK that nurses operate as independent practitioners and prescribers either as Advance Nurse Practitioners or Nurse Consultants. That means they Diagnose and treat without ANY medical input whatsoever They are INDEPENDENT CLINICIANS . So you alone know what you mean with this outdated idea of writing down diagnosis. By law you cannot issue a prescription without a diagnosis so even Paracetamol for Headache implies a diagnosis of "Headache"
An abscess or boil is a diagnosis so also is ringworm, which nurses diagnose and treat in Nigeria.
Nurses in the UK diagnose and treat ADHD, Depression, Anxiety and some Consultant Nurses Admit patients to hospital under their care with ZERO INPUT from doctors. Clearly this is beyond your orientation and exposure.




The implication from your words was that this strict level of care was peculiar to nurses otherwise what is the point of mentioning it. A paediatrician has no business treating adults or going beyond what he is accredited for

Headache is not a diagnosis.

olusegxz:


Headache is not a diagnosis.

Lol
I was expecting this and wrote what I wrote deliberately because many Nigerian trained doctors spout this same ignorance
You are predictable
Your problem is you do not know and do not know that you do not know but think you know it all


The WHO has a list of diagnoses that it recognizes with specific codes in its publication ICD-10 and its latest version ICD-11
The ICD 10 code for headache is R51

Educate yourself

Anyway that is not the issue so let us not major in minors

The point for me is your statement about "writing diagnosis" and your apparent belief that nurses cannot diagnose or that only doctors can. That is ignorant and wrong

Once again Headache is a diagnosis and there are MANY types of headache recognized as diagnoses
Yes headache is a symptom of many conditions just like high blood pressure is a sign but also a diagnosis in its ESSENTIAL manifestation

olusegxz:


Debola debola lol. You are actually the first person I am communicating with on nairaland. And what an interesting conversation. Well we learn everyday but can a nurse register a clinic in Nigeria. I need to investigate that one. In 2011 when I left Nigeria only a doctor can register a clinic or health facility. Even a pharmacist needs a doctor to partner with to open a hospital. Just as a doctor needs to partner with a pharmacist to open a pharmacy even if that pharmacy is located in your clinic. Give facts do not give hear says. I know for a fact that a nurse cannot be the sole proprietor of a clinic or health center. Also do you belong to MDCN. Because that is the body that regulates and monitors health clinics etc.

A Nurse can own a maternity clinic that caters for maternal and child health, antenatal clinic, childbirth etc. She can employ a doctor if she wants advanced gynaecological care to be practised in her clinic

aribisala0:
Lol
I was expecting this and wrote what I wrote deliberately because many Nigerian trained doctors spout this same ignorance
You are predictable
Your problem is you do not know and do not know that you do not know but think you know it all


The WHO has a list of diagnosis that it recognizes with specific codes in it publication ICD-10 and its latest version ICD-11
The ICD 10 code for headache is R51

Educate yourself

Anyway that is not the issue so let us not major in minors

The point for me is your statement about "writing diagnosis" and your apparent belief that nurses cannot diagnose or that only doctors can. That is ignorant and wrong

Once again Headache is a diagnosis and there are MANY types of headache recognized as diagnoses

So now let me educate you. But before I do can we know what level of education you have. Secondly referring to WHO coding. Coding is a guide to deduce a diagnosis. Every symptom is coded because a symptom can become a diagnosis.

So you read a book code and suddenly think you know diagnosis. Funny. If you actually are in practise you will understand that there is no ache that can be associated to the 'head'.

It has to originate from somewhere. You need to investigate the source of that ache and come up with a proper diagnosis.

That is what separates you who take directions and write notes, from people who actually save lives in practical reality. Remember strict scopes of practise is to ensure lives are in safe hands.

Go and diagnose headaches to your patients. Write it and sign it and let me see. Lol.

You don't know anything about practise. Telling me WHO coding theory lol. I am talking about real actual practise and what you have deal with. Do you know the level of investigation it entails to conclusively say headache is a diagnosis. You need to rule out every single differential. In practise that is almost impossible. It is either due to congestion, tension, nerves etc.

The only time head ache can be a diagnosis is when there is no associated factors and in practise that is almost impossible. Go and be reciting codes for patients. It is like you are fresh out of school.

olusegxz:


Umm everyone has subordinates oo. Do you know in the west people would rather not be the one in charge, it is the person in charge that faces the most litigation. Even various doctors are subordinates to others colleages. Nurses are dear colleagues.

Do you know that if a doctor commits an error in prescription or dosage and the Nurse serves the medication ignorantly and something happens to the patient, it is the Nurse that is most likely to face litigation because she is meant to have adequate knowledge to know if there is an error in a prescription or a dosage. Does that mean the Nurse is in charge?

debola27:

Do you know that if a doctor commits an error in prescription or dosage and the Nurse serves the medication ignorantly and something happens to the patient, it is the Nurse that is most likely to face litigation because she is meant to have adequate knowledge to know if there is an error in a prescription or a dosage. Does that mean the Nurse is in charge?

A nurse will face no litigation for prescription. You may face one for administering what a doctor prescribed if for example you give a wrong dosage. So yes.

olusegxz:


So now let me educate you. But before I do can we know what level of education you have. Secondly referring to WHO coding. Coding is a guide to deduce a diagnosis. Every symptom is coded because a symptom can become a diagnosis.

So you read a book code and suddenly think you know diagnosis. Funny. If you actually are in practise you will understand that there is no ache that can be associated to the 'head'.

It has to originate from somewhere. You need to investigate the source of that ache and come up with a proper diagnosis.

That is what separates you who take directions and write notes from people who actually save lives in practise.

Go and diagnose headaches to your patients. Lol.

You don't know anything. Telling me WHO coding theory lol. I am talking about real actual practise and what you have deal with. Do you know the level of investigation it entails to conclusively say it is a diagnosis. In practise that is almost impossible. It is either due to congestion, tension, nerves etc.

The only time head ache can be a diagnosis is when there is no associated factors and in practise that is almost impossible in practise. Go and be reciting codes for patients.

You see what I'm talking about? You're too conceited to actually know that saving lives is a collaborative effort of health professionals, not just the work of a doctor. And you still don't understand the job of Nurses from your statement.
Primary headaches can actually happen without any underlying disease, so if after all investigations and you don't find any underlying condition, will you cook up another diagnosis asides what is wrong with the patient which is just headache?

olusegxz:


So now let me educate you. But before I do can we know what level of education you have. Secondly referring to WHO coding. Coding is a guide to deduce a diagnosis. Every symptom is coded because a symptom can become a diagnosis.

So you read a book code and suddenly think you know diagnosis. Funny. If you actually are in practise you will understand that there is no ache that can be associated to the 'head'.

It has to originate from somewhere. You need to investigate the source of that ache and come up with a proper diagnosis.

That is what separates you who take directions and write notes from people who actually save lives in practise.

Go and diagnose headaches to your patients. Lol.

You don't know anything. Telling me WHO coding theory lol. I am talking about real actual practise and what you have deal with. Do you know the level of investigation it entails to conclusively say headache is a diagnosis. You need to rule out every single differential. In practise that is almost impossible. It is either due to congestion, tension, nerves etc.

The only time head ache can be a diagnosis is when there is no associated factors and in practise that is almost impossible. Go and be reciting codes for patients. It is like you are fresh out of school.

You education level is obvious from how you talk.
I have no intention to be biographical with you
ICD 10 (Now 11) if the World Health Organization List of Diagnoses in medicine. Do not try to bluff your way out of that one.
I baited you and you fell for it very predictably showing YOUR LEVEL
Headache is a diagnosis .........period
The simple truth is YOU DID NOT KNOW THAT

Now you do and you should say

Thank you to me for teaching you what you did not know

You said "real practice"

Yes in real practice ICD 10 codes are recorded in hospitals and even used FOR BILLING in the USA
That is how epidemiological data from Hospitals are gathered
You are sounding very backward
Whether or not an ache is associated with the head is a Pathology question not a diagnostication issue
However that is a false claim
Headaches can be classed like many other conditions as "Not otherwise Specified".

debola27:

You see what I'm talking about? You're too conceited to actually know that saving lives is a collaborative effort of health professionals, not just the work of a doctor. And you still don't understand the job of Nurses from your statement.
Primary headaches can actually happen without any underlying disease, so if after all investigations and you don't find any underlying condition, will you cook up another diagnosis asides what is wrong with the patient which is just headache?

I actually said that on purpose. It does not mean literal terms. We all write notes, 60 percent of health care is writing notes. There is nothing wrong with that. About the headache we can spend 100 years explaining all the different sinarios that can cause a headache. It is a symptom. When you diagnosis and it happens to be something else you can be in big trouble. So it is professionally acceptable and more appropriate to list it as a symptom and treat by elimination.

olusegxz:


A nurse will face no litigation for prescription. You may face one for administering what a doctor prescribed if for example you give a wrong dosage. So yes.

If a doctor puts a wrong prescription or dosage down, and a Nurse ignorantly follows what the doctor has written, the Nurse may face litigation. The doctor may also be liable for a wrong prescription. But what I'm trying to point out is that no one will say since it's the doctor that wrote the wrong prescription or wrong dosage, then only him is liable. The Nurse is also meant to know when a doctor gives her what is wrong to administer

aribisala0:


You education level is obvious from how you talk.
I have no intention to be biographical with you
ICD 10 (Now 11) if the World Health Organization List of Diagnoses in medicine. Do not try to bluff your way out of that one.
I baited you and you fell for it very predictably showing YOUR LEVEL
Headache is a diagnosis .........period
The simple truth is YOU DID NOT KNOW THAT

Now you do and you should say

Thank you to me for teaching you what you did not know

You said "real practice"

Yes in real practice ICD 10 codes are recorded in hospitals and even used FOR BILLING in the USA
That is how epidemiological data from Hospitals are gathered
You are sounding very backward

You educated me that a symptom can be a diagnosis. Great. Lol. Instead of listing codes give a case scenario and let's here your coding theory in practise. How do you apply it. Educate us.

olusegxz:


You educated me that a symptom can be a diagnosis. Great. Lol. Instead of listing codes give a case scenario and let's here your coding theory in practise. How do you apply it. Educate us.

I will not educate you for free.
Headache is a symptom of some conditions it can also be a diagnosis
Anxiety is a symptom it can also be a diagnosis
High blood pressure is a sign of some conditions it can also be a diagnosis
Ditto Fever

To go far never stop learning. Keep an open mind
You are not as knowledgeable as you think you are

aribisala0:


You education level is obvious from how you talk.
I have no intention to be biographical with you
ICD 10 (Now 11) if the World Health Organization List of Diagnoses in medicine. Do not try to bluff your way out of that one.
I baited you and you fell for it very predictably showing YOUR LEVEL
Headache is a diagnosis .........period
The simple truth is YOU DID NOT KNOW THAT

Now you do and you should say

Thank you to me for teaching you what you did not know

You said "real practice"

Yes in real practice ICD 10 codes are recorded in hospitals and even used FOR BILLING in the USA
That is how epidemiological data from Hospitals are gathered
You are sounding very backward
Whether or not an ache is associated with the head is a Pathology question not a diagnostication issue
However that is a false claim
Headaches can be classed like many other conditions as "Not otherwise Specified".

You clearly have no medical knowledge. Ache is not a pathology. It is a symptom. I am not even conversing with you. Your English is not even at par. I would rather continue to converse with the debola individual she is making a lot more sense than you.

aribisala0:
I will not educate you for free.
Headache is a symptom of some conditions it can also be a diagnosis
Anxiety is a symptom it can also be a diagnosis
High blood pressure is a sign of some conditions it can also be a diagnosis
Ditto Fever

To go far never stop learning. Keep an open mind
You are not as knowledgeable as you think you are

Go and read what I said. As I said English may actually be your problem. A nurse what education do you have. Enlighten us. A diagnosis is derived from symptoms, and in specific cases a symptom can be a sole diagnosis. Also I am not referring to differentials. Headache is a too broad a term to be a diagnosis in actual practise.

olusegxz:


You clearly have no medical knowledge. Ache is not a pathology. It is a symptom. I am not even conversing with you. Your English is not even at par. I would rather continue to converse with the debola individual she is making a lot more sense than you.

what is dolor?

You are embarrassing yourself guy.
I apologize for my English
I hope that gives you a face saving exit
Halitosis is a diagnosis
Jaundice is a diagnosis
Homelessness is a diagnosis
Failed exams is a diagnosis

You are just a little boy in this game