mazaje:

To "defend" their God, they define him as a hide and seek god, indistinguishable from one who is not there. . . .To defend the mythical heaven and hell they define the places indistinguishable from places that are not there. . .

That's the entire idea. Simply harnessing people's fear of the unknown and ignorance against them.

mu yi wa:

God is merciful. to believe in hell is to believe He is wicked. i believe in heaven but i dont think hell exist. believers will make heave6 but unbelievers will die and cease to exist. i think d whole idea of eternally  burning hell is as a result of mistakes when translating the bible from its original language into english

Is it merciful to make some people gather around you for eternity and sing praises to your name? (This already happens in North Korea only that they don't do this for eternity)
Is it merciful to allow serial killers who died by the hand of the state on death row into heaven but destroy those who have been kind and merciful on earth?

YOU WICKED GENERATION OF VIPERS,  You will likewise perish unless you repent. You ask for signs b4 u believe, but the only sign you'll get is the rapture of the church and that would sign your doom,  The Lord has given u countless opportunities to repent but u harden your heat against him, but just as your turn deaf ears on him while on earth, so would he turn not just his ears but also his back on your plea on judgement day,  While you're still alive u have every opportunity to repent but once you die no more hope for u cos it would be too late to say "LORD I'M SORRY, I REPENT NOW"y "LORD I'M SORRY, I REPENT NOW"

joe4christ:

YOU WICKED GENERATION OF VIPERS,  You will likewise perish unless you repent. You ask for signs b4 u believe, but the only sign you'll get is the rapture of the church and that would sign your doom,  The Lord has given u countless opportunities to repent but u harden your heat against him, but just as your turn deaf ears on him while on earth, so would he turn not just his ears but also his back on your plea on judgement day,  While you're still alive u have every opportunity to repent but once you die no more hope for u cos it would be too late to say "LORD I'M SORRY, I REPENT NOW"y "LORD I'M SORRY, I REPENT NOW"

Why you dey vex na?. . . . .

joe4christ:

YOU WICKED GENERATION OF VIPERS,  You will likewise perish unless you repent. You ask for signs b4 u believe, but the only sign you'll get is the rapture of the church and that would sign your doom,  The Lord has given u countless opportunities to repent but u harden your heat against him, but just as your turn deaf ears on him while on earth, so would he turn not just his ears but also his back on your plea on judgement day,  While you're still alive u have every opportunity to repent but once you die no more hope for u cos it would be too late to say "LORD I'M SORRY, I REPENT NOW"y "LORD I'M SORRY, I REPENT NOW"

You must be a joker. Why will you believe without signs? This is the problem with religious faith believing statements without signs. I hope you remember that Thomas was given signs why should your God not give us signs today? All we've seen so far are signs of religious leaders burning other people's money or investing their money in private enterprises. If that is the best sign available, then thanks but I'll pass.

joe4christ has a tiny d**k. Covering up the deficiency by making noise

Why would the governments of nations through their courts of law sentence a guilty man into an imprisonment of LIFETIME or death for committing crimes? Lets assume that human beings can live for eternity on planet earth, then such governments can sentence a criminal into ETERNAL imprisonment with hard labour.

If human governments could pass such a penalty, dont underestimate what judgement a Holy God pass for violating HIS holy commandments. He can sentence sinners into an ETERNITY in HELL just like a LIFETIME in PRISON.

Also, If the presidents of a nation can grant a presidential pardon or amnesty to a man already sentenced to life imprisonment and the man is freed, then dont underestimate how merciful God can be and forgive you as a SINNER who is already heading towards ETERNITY in HELL and be redeemed, if you asked for His forgiveness.

Lets also look at the argumentts for or not hell from another assumptive angles.

1. Lets assume you claimed that there is no hell and you lived a sinful life on earth because of your assumption while I assumed there is hell and I lived a cautious life because of my assumption. Now both of us are dead and we discover there is no hell. In this case, you gained little and I lose nothing.

2. Lets assume you claimed that there is no hell and you lived a sinful life on earth because of your assumption while I assumed there is hell and I lived a cautious life because of my assumption . Now both of us are dead and we discover there is hell. In this case, you lose ALL for eternity and I gain ALL for eternity.

So, based on the two assumptions above it is more sensible and safe to hold the position on the person that believes there is hell and lives a cautious and sinless life. Afterall, many people have believed there is no AIDs and lived a reckless life and they ended up being infected. Is this not worth our attention?

annyplenty:

Lets also look at the argumentts for or not hell from another assumptive angles.

1. Lets assume you claimed that there is no hell and you lived a sinful life on earth because of your assumption while I assumed there is hell and I lived a cautious life because of my assumption. Now both of us are dead and we discover there is no hell. In this case, you gained little and I lose nothing.

2. Lets assume you claimed that there is no hell and you lived a sinful life on earth because of your assumption while I assumed there is hell and I lived a cautious life because of my assumption . Now both of us are dead and we discover there is hell. In this case, you lose ALL for eternity and I gain ALL for eternity.

So, based on the two assumptions above it is more sensible and safe to hold the position on the person that believes there is hell and lives a cautious and sinless life. Afterall, many people have believed there is no AIDs and lived a reckless life and they ended up being infected. Is this not worth our attention?

And here we have the well known Pascal's Wager. The problem with this argument is that you're ignoring the other hells and punishments available in the afterlife presented by the other numerous religions.
How bothered are you about the punishment awaiting you in the Muslim hell? How about the Hindu alternatives and that of the thousands of other religions? Then you may also know that depending on your denomination, you may or may not go to hell.

thehomer:

Indoctrination is a poor way of acquiring knowledge. This means the information you were indoctrinated with is no better than that another also acquired by indoctrination.

Indoctrination was an is still a widely acknowledged part of education. You also happen to have precluded the part where I said I did some musing.

thehomer:

What other transcendental places do you know? How about Valhalla? What is a transcendental reality? And is that where God stays?

Hell is a part of transcendental reality. nature points to a transcendental reality. Could you point out the relevance of your question on God's location to my comment.

Uyi Iredia:

Indoctrination was an is still a widely acknowledged part of education. You also happen to have precluded the part where I said I did some musing.

Indoctrination is still a poor source of knowledge which is why good teachers avoid it early. And what did you muse about?

Uyi Iredia:

Hell is a part of transcendental reality. nature points to a transcendental reality. Could you point out the relevance of your question on God's location to my comment.

How does nature point to hell? The relevance is that you're claiming this God is in some place of transcendental reality. Where is this place?

thehomer:

Indoctrination is still a poor source of knowledge which is why good teachers avoid it early. And what did you muse about?

Not quite. It has a role to play especially in early educational development or in areas where one has little or no rudimentary knowledge.

thehomer:

How does nature point to hell? The relevance is that you're claiming this God is in some place of transcendental reality. Where is this place?

I said Nature points to transcendental reality. Abstracts are generally regarded as real even though they aren't prove. Where did I state that God is in some transcendental rality ? Where did I even state God

The mind is a funny thing. These are adults scared to death of the jewish/romam myths they've been brainwashed with from childhood. Utterly pathetic! ! !

harakiri:

The mind is a funny thing. These are adults scared to death of the jewish/romam myths they've been brainwashed with from childhood. Utterly pathetic! ! !

Lol, they're talking about transcendental reality while science is still unlocking the wonders of natural reality. That's why the west keeps advancing while they insist on musing on bronze age mythology.

Uyi Iredia:

Not quite. It has a role to play especially in early educational development or in areas where one has little or no rudimentary knowledge.

Which means it is supposed to be discarded when one has acquired some knowledge.

Uyi Iredia:

I said Nature points to transcendental reality. Abstracts are generally regarded as real even though they aren't prove. Where did I state that God is in some transcendental rality ? Where did I even state God

No, abstract objects are regarded as abstract. Where else would God stay? That is my question to you. If this hell of yours is abstract, that would imply that heaven and thus God's abode is in a similar state.

Did Judas Iscariot have a choice in not betraying Jesus? Didn't God create the Devil? Didn't God create evil?

@omo_to_dun; I have often heard it said that God did not create evil and if you think about it, it makes sense. They say that evil, or darkness, does not exist in itself; Evil is the absence of good just like light is the absence of darkness. When "Good" moves away, you're left with "Evil"; when light moves away, you're left with darkness. You never heard of anyone creating darkness did you? But you hear of the creation of light, even here in the physical world. You enter a dark room, and light a match and voila! there's light. We've even created the torchlight that you flick on in the dark and light comes out of it. But have you ever been in a dark room and tried to shine darkness out of light? Imagine that you're in a well lit room and you have a torch that when you flick on, darkness comes out and starts to over power the light. I don't think so. The darkness only comes when the light "moves away". This is the eternal stronghold that Good has over Evil.

You see the truth is that it is easy to claim that the Bible has so many contradictions and therefore one should not believe in God. But this is not enough reason not to. It is cowardice to run away from something because you don't fully understand it. Yes, it seems like wickedness to punish someone for all eternity regardless of what they have done, but we did not create the world nor the universe. We do not have the blueprint of things that were before us, or things that will come after. We do not have the grand design to fully comprehend all of this. we cannot fully comprehend the mysteries of the world with our human minds. You said in one of your posts that Faith is the strongest weapon an individual possesses and I agree with you. But the opposite is also true; "un-faith", or anti-faith, when one closes their minds to the possibility of existence of these things, automatically hinders one's own spiritual growth. All that is required is an open mind and a willingness to understand.
Remember this: no one has all the answers. Whether you claim the existence or non-existence of God does not make Him any more or less real than He is. Personally, I believe. And not necessarily because of being indoctrinated, but because of my own personal experiences. In nature, there is balance. Everything is perfect. you reap what you sow. If you reaped what you have not sown, and you die, there must be a balancing element somewhere else. If you sow and you haven't reaped, there must also be a balancing element somewhere else. A lot of people who claim the non-existence of God laugh at believers and call them myopic fools, etc etc. It's not like those people have discovered the mysteries of the universe themselves. It is taking the easy way out when you choose not to believe because you can't explain why there are famine and wars, or because you cannot fully comprehend the Bible. We didn't create the world and so we do not have the blueprint to understand completely. Again this lack of understanding comes in when it comes to choice. It could be possible (and I'm not saying it is), but it could be possible that the outcomes to every choice that you could ever make has been mapped out; so perhaps you still have the choices, but these infinite choices have been mapped out so every choice and sub-choice you make, the outcomes are already there. In this case, you're still filing out a script, but with the "choice" to find your way back home. Like I said, this analogy does not need to be true but it just goes to show that there are things we do not know that we do not know. Closing your mind to the existence of God because of a lack of knowledge or understanding is not sufficient. It is written in Isaiah 47:13 "thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee".

Look for the answers and in your search don't rely to much on your own abilities. Remember: you did not create the world and thus the world cannot fit into your narrow understanding of things. Keep your mind open, and the Truth will possess you.

Have a good week.

thehomer:

Which means it is supposed to be discarded when one has acquired some knowledge.

what's your basis for this conclusion ?

thehomer:

No, abstract objects are regarded as abstract. Where else would God stay? That is my question to you. If this hell of yours is abstract, that would imply that heaven and thus God's abode is in a similar state.

abstract objects, i repeat, are regarded as real. You have not pointed out where I stated God in this discussion.

reini:

@omo_to_dun; I have often heard it said that God did not create evil and if you think about it, it makes sense. They say that evil, or darkness, does not exist in itself; Evil is the absence of good just like light is the absence of darkness. When "Good" moves away, you're left with "Evil"; when light moves away, you're left with darkness. You never heard of anyone creating darkness did you? But you hear of the creation of light, even here in the physical world. You enter a dark room, and light a match and voila! there's light. We've even created the torchlight that you flick on in the dark and light comes out of it. But have you ever been in a dark room and tried to shine darkness out of light? Imagine that you're in a well lit room and you have a torch that when you flick on, darkness comes out and starts to over power the light. I don't think so. The darkness only comes when the light "moves away". This is the eternal stronghold that Good has over Evil.

You see the truth is that it is easy to claim that the Bible has so many contradictions and therefore one should not believe in God. But this is not enough reason not to. It is cowardice to run away from something because you don't fully understand it. Yes, it seems like wickedness to punish someone for all eternity regardless of what they have done, but we did not create the world nor the universe. We do not have the blueprint of things that were before us, or things that will come after. We do not have the grand design to fully comprehend all of this. we cannot fully comprehend the mysteries of the world with our human minds. You said in one of your posts that Faith is the strongest weapon an individual possesses and I agree with you. But the opposite is also true; "un-faith", or anti-faith, when one closes their minds to the possibility of existence of these things, automatically hinders one's own spiritual growth. All that is required is an open mind and a willingness to understand.
Remember this: no one has all the answers. Whether you claim the existence or non-existence of God does not make Him any more or less real than He is. Personally, I believe. And not necessarily because of being indoctrinated, but because of my own personal experiences. In nature, there is balance. Everything is perfect. you reap what you sow. If you reaped what you have not sown, and you die, there must be a balancing element somewhere else. If you sow and you haven't reaped, there must also be a balancing element somewhere else. A lot of people who claim the non-existence of God laugh at believers and call them myopic fools, etc etc. It's not like those people have discovered the mysteries of the universe themselves. It is taking the easy way out when you choose not to believe because you can't explain why there are famine and wars, or because you cannot fully comprehend the Bible. We didn't create the world and so we do not have the blueprint to understand completely. Again this lack of understanding comes in when it comes to choice. It could be possible (and I'm not saying it is), but it could be possible that the outcomes to every choice that you could ever make has been mapped out; so perhaps you still have the choices, but these infinite choices have been mapped out so every choice and sub-choice you make, the outcomes are already there. In this case, you're still filing out a script, but with the "choice" to find your way back home. Like I said, this analogy does not need to be true but it just goes to show that there are things we do not know that we do not know. Closing your mind to the existence of God because of a lack of knowledge or understanding is not sufficient. It is written in Isaiah 47:13 "thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee".

Look for the answers and in your search don't rely to much on your own abilities. Remember: you did not create the world and thus the world cannot fit into your narrow understanding of things. Keep your mind open, and the Truth will possess you.

Have a good week.

Have a best weekend in advance bo.

reini:

@omo_to_dun; I have often heard it said that God did not create evil and if you think about it, it makes sense. They say that evil, or darkness, does not exist in itself; Evil is the absence of good just like light is the absence of darkness. When "Good" moves away, you're left with "Evil"; when light moves away, you're left with darkness. You never heard of anyone creating darkness did you? But you hear of the creation of light, even here in the physical world. You enter a dark room, and light a match and voila! there's light. We've even created the torchlight that you flick on in the dark and light comes out of it. But have you ever been in a dark room and tried to shine darkness out of light? Imagine that you're in a well lit room and you have a torch that when you flick on, darkness comes out and starts to over power the light. I don't think so. The darkness only comes when the light "moves away". This is the eternal stronghold that Good has over Evil.

You see the truth is that it is easy to claim that the Bible has so many contradictions and therefore one should not believe in God. But this is not enough reason not to. It is cowardice to run away from something because you don't fully understand it. Yes, it seems like wickedness to punish someone for all eternity regardless of what they have done, but we did not create the world nor the universe. We do not have the blueprint of things that were before us, or things that will come after. We do not have the grand design to fully comprehend all of this. we cannot fully comprehend the mysteries of the world with our human minds. You said in one of your posts that Faith is the strongest weapon an individual possesses and I agree with you. But the opposite is also true; "un-faith", or anti-faith, when one closes their minds to the possibility of existence of these things, automatically hinders one's own spiritual growth. All that is required is an open mind and a willingness to understand.
Remember this: no one has all the answers. Whether you claim the existence or non-existence of God does not make Him any more or less real than He is. Personally, I believe. And not necessarily because of being indoctrinated, but because of my own personal experiences. In nature, there is balance. Everything is perfect. you reap what you sow. If you reaped what you have not sown, and you die, there must be a balancing element somewhere else. If you sow and you haven't reaped, there must also be a balancing element somewhere else. A lot of people who claim the non-existence of God laugh at believers and call them myopic fools, etc etc. It's not like those people have discovered the mysteries of the universe themselves. It is taking the easy way out when you choose not to believe because you can't explain why there are famine and wars, or because you cannot fully comprehend the Bible. We didn't create the world and so we do not have the blueprint to understand completely. Again this lack of understanding comes in when it comes to choice. It could be possible (and I'm not saying it is), but it could be possible that the outcomes to every choice that you could ever make has been mapped out; so perhaps you still have the choices, but these infinite choices have been mapped out so every choice and sub-choice you make, the outcomes are already there. In this case, you're still filing out a script, but with the "choice" to find your way back home. Like I said, this analogy does not need to be true but it just goes to show that there are things we do not know that we do not know. Closing your mind to the existence of God because of a lack of knowledge or understanding is not sufficient. It is written in Isaiah 47:13 "thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee".

Look for the answers and in your search don't rely to much on your own abilities. Remember: you did not create the world and thus the world cannot fit into your narrow understanding of things. Keep your mind open, and the Truth will possess you.

Have a good week.

Missed this before; glad I got a chance to see this thoughtful post.

Uyi Iredia:

what's your basis for this conclusion ?

The fact that it is a poor way of acquiring knowledge. There are much better ways available.

Uyi Iredia:

abstract objects, i repeat, are regarded as real. You have not pointed out where I stated God in this discussion.

They are regarded as real in what universe? Can you point out the abstract objects that you consider to be real? You don't have to state God for him to show up in this conversation. Remember that you are talking about hell as a believer. God is the maker of hell.

thehomer:

The fact that it is a poor way of acquiring knowledge. There are much better ways available.

Demonstrate how it is a poor way of acquiring knowledge.

thehomer:

They are regarded as real in what universe? Can you point out the abstract objects that you consider to be real? You don't have to state God for him to show up in this conversation. Remember that you are talking about hell as a believer. God is the maker of hell.

logic, love e.t.c are abstract objects which are real. It seems you want to bring God into this discussion, why ?

Uyi Iredia:

Demonstrate how it is a poor way of acquiring knowledge.

Look at what it means.

Wikipedia]
1. to teach with a biased , one-sided or uncritical ideology.
2. to brainwash.
[/quote]

Do you still have no problems with it?

[quote author=Uyi Iredia:

logic, love e.t.c are abstract objects which are real. It seems you want to bring God into this discussion, why ?

Sorry, I do not consider logic or love to be objects. I already told you, once you're speaking about heaven and hell and other similarly mythical places in your belief system, God has no choice but to appear.

thehomer:

Look at what it means.

Do you still have no problems with it?

nope.

thehomer:

Sorry, I do not consider logic or love to be objects. I already told you, once you're speaking about heaven and hell and other similarly mythical places in your belief system, God has no choice but to appear.

why don't you consider them as objects ? Why does God have to appear ?

Uyi Iredia:

nope.

Good so avoid it.

Uyi Iredia:

why don't you consider them as objects ? Why does God have to appear ?

I don't consider them objects because they are not to put it simply, things. I already pointed out to you why God must be involved. I don't really have to repeat myself. Just see my previous post.

thehomer:

Good so avoid it.

noted

thehomer:

I don't consider them objects because they are not to put it simply, things. I already pointed out to you why God must be involved. I don't really have to repeat myself. Just see my previous post.

it wasn't satisfactory

Uyi Iredia:

noted

it wasn't satisfactory

Too bad since I already explained why God must be involved. Why don't you simply show why you don't think God is involved or why you're trying to be evasive and failing at it.

thehomer:

Too bad since I already explained why God must be involved. Why don't you simply show why you don't think God is involved or why you're trying to be evasive and failing at it.

Give me a good reason why we should talk about God, when I clearly limited my questions to the place of hell.

Uyi Iredia:

Give me a good reason why we should talk about God, when I clearly limited my questions to the place of hell.

Like I said, God created this hell. Why did he create it? Those are the sorts of questions that need answers.

I laugh when i see narrow-minded deluded guys saying wrong things on d existence of God and doubting.Aint a new thing though, becos even historically, a lot of knowledge scholars and hard-hearted people use their cheap human brain which is very limited but( they don't know becos satan has blinded their eyes)To rationalize everything even those that are beyond them.The bible states that 'the ways of God are not your ways ,neither are ur thoughts his thoughts'.My gospel msg to u rebels who God loves is dat He always gives us enough opportunies while we have d precious chance here on earth.Repent,give ur life to Jesus and be saved.I warn u that whether u believe/not,HEAVEN and HELL is real!! Don't say i wasn't aware,plsI laugh when i see narrow-minded deluded guys saying wrong things on d existence of God and doubting.Aint a new thing though, becos even historically, a lot of knowledge scholars and hard-hearted people use their cheap human brain which is very limited but( they don't know becos satan has blinded their eyes)To rationalize everything even those that are beyond them.The bible states that 'the ways of God are not your ways ,neither are ur thoughts his thoughts'.My gospel msg to u rebels who God loves is dat He always gives us enough opportunies while we have d precious chance here on earth.Repent,give ur life to Jesus and be saved.I warn u that whether u believe/not,HEAVEN and HELL is real!! Don't say i wasn't aware,pls

I laugh when i see narrow-minded deluded guys saying wrong things on d existence of God and doubting.Aint a new thing though, becos even historically, a lot of knowledge scholars and hard-hearted people use their cheap human brain which is very limited but( they don't know becos satan has blinded their eyes)To rationalize everything even those that are beyond them.The bible states that 'the ways of God are not your ways ,neither are ur thoughts his thoughts'.My gospel msg to u rebels who God loves is dat He always gives us enough opportunies while we have d precious chance here on earth.Repent,give ur life to Jesus and be saved.I warn u that whether u believe/not,HEAVEN and HELL is real!! Don't say i wasn't aware,pls