Hey everyone.

I think it's about time we addressed this common, and overly misused misconception

It goes a little bit like this

“if you're an atheist.. or if you don't believe in God, then why do you spend your time online debating and arguing with Christians/Muslims?" ..

It's often followed by a less intelligent statement like “you probably hate God, and just want to attack believers" or something like that... So it's time to clear the air.

I will give general reasons why atheists, or other non believers can, and should debate religious topics if they so desire.. then I'll give reasons why I, Wilgrea7, personally debate religion.

WHY ATHEISTS DEBATE RELIGION

I'll go straight to the point. No political, philosophical, or religious ideology is above scrutiny.

Whatever you believe, as long as it affects the life of others, cannot be free of criticism. Political and philosophical ideas are constantly scrutinized.

The fact that you think your belief in a sky daddy who doesn't like foreski.n automatically excludes said belief from questioning, simply does not add up.

2. Ideologies, be it political, philosophical or religious, shape our world today.

If someone believes that they'll go to an imaginary place for blowing themselves up, then that belief deserves to be scrutinized.

If someone believes that hating someone, or worse, attacking them, for no other reason than the fact that they share a different opinion is right, then that deserves to be scrutinized.

If someone insists on denying scientific facts, simply because their book of fairy tales says otherwise, then that book, and the belief, deserve to be scrutinized

I could go on and on... But i think you get the point.


3. Nairaland is a forum for discussion.. and anyone who has an interest.. can participate in the discussion.

If someone has an interest in religious topics, and there is a religious section, he or she needs no other excuse or justification to contribute, as long as it is related to the topic of religion.

Now, on to why I, personally debate religion

WHY I, WILGREA7, SPEND MY TIME DEBATING RELIGION

Now, this is more personal than generic. I won't bore you with the full story of my conversion. So I'll keep it very short

Anyone who can go through my earliest posts, can see that i was a Christian, who used to defend Christianity. But my story didn't start there.

As a Christian, I once had questions about certain aspects of my faith. I stumbled on Nairaland, and got the opportunity to see a debate from several viewpoints, and not just the one i was fed while growing up.

This was long before i ever even created an account here. The discussions between atheists and Christians, and between Christians of different sects, opened my eyes to different ways of thinking about things.

Like me back then, there are lots of people who have questions about their religion or faith. Questions they'll get shunned or possibly punished, for asking.

They may not have accounts yet, or may have accounts but don't comment.. but i know they're there.. and i know they're watching, as i once was, before i even started participating here.

So for the sake of these people, who can dare to question things, or want to see things from a different viewpoint, i will continue to provide that viewpoint

I will continue to challenge popularly held religious concepts, and give independent readers the opportunity to judge for themselves.

I will continue to question the things people are too scared or too shy to question.

I will continue to debate religion.

My main issue is that some theists are not arguing with reason, they're not arguing to prove their viewpoint, they're not arguing to learn. So they resort to insults and abuse rather addressing issues. They just want to WIN arguments and garner likes and shares. This just shows me their intellectual laziness and makes me lose interest in the threads pretty quickly. I couldn't keep up with the garbage spilling but someone has to do it so kudos to you. You dey try

afficionado7:
My main issue is that some theists are not arguing with reason, they're not arguing to prove their viewpoint, they're not arguing to learn. So they resort to insults and abuse rather addressing issues. They just want to WIN arguments and garner likes and shares. This just shows me their intellectual laziness and makes me lose interest in the threads pretty quickly. I couldn't keep up with the garbage spilling but someone has to do it so kudos to you. You dey try

I'll admit... It's mentally draining at times... Especially when you try your best to convey your points to them, and they just respond by saying the exact same thing they've been saying, or quoting from their book, like that does anything to strengthen their argument.

The unwillingness to learn is the most unsettling thing. Even till now, I'm still learning, and am open to learning. But for a lot of them, they believe their book has all the answers.. so they shut themselves off from any other type of knowledge. It's quite disappointing tbh.

There is just one reason!

In the history of religion people only worship in the same way their ancestors do but the one and only true God promised that towards the endtime before He destroy evildoers He will establish pure worship.
And how will it go?
God will send out His Active Force (Holy Spirit) to gather humble and obedient people from all the nations throughout the world {Isaiah 2:2} they will speak with one another on God's standard {Isaiah 2:3 compare to Malachi 3:16} this will lead to peaceful coexistence among them. Isaiah 2:4

The spirit of disobedience will also prepare the hearts of disobedient people so that when the message to get them on the road to salvation comes they may also have something to say in defense.
So the battle line has been drawn between the faithful and faithless but the faithful will always give indisputable reason for faith in their God while faithless will be silenced! Isaiah 54:17

That's why you're always here trying to convince yourself that you're right with atheism!

Of course. Quoting from an ancient book of fiction is all the proof you need. Omo people dey sha. Imagine living life without inquiring, without bouncing new ideas against pre-held beliefs? No be death be that?
People dey.

MaxInDHouse:
There is just one reason!

In the history of religion people only worship in the same way their ancestors do but the one and only true God promised that towards the endtime before He destroy evildoers He will establish pure worship.
And how will it go?
God will send out His Active Force (Holy Spirit) to gather humble and obedient people from all the nations throughout the world {Isaiah 2:2} they will speak with one another on God's standard {Isaiah 2:3 compare to Malachi 3:16} this will lead to peaceful coexistence among them. Isaiah 2:4

The spirit of disobedience will also prepare the hearts of disobedient people so that when the message to get them on the road to salvation comes they may also have something to say in defense.
So the battle line has been drawn between the faithful and faithless but the faithful will always give indisputable reason for faith in their God while faithless will be silenced! Isaiah 54:17

That's why you're always here trying to convince yourself that you're right with atheism!

In every single thread... You find a way.. no matter how miniscule... to spread your peace narrative.

Nothing you posted here.. apart from the last line.. has anything to do with what I'm talking about here.

Wilgrea7 but... but... he has quoted the bible na. Doesn't that answer everything?

Wilgrea7:

In every single thread... You find a way.. no matter how miniscule... to spread your peace narrative. Nothing you posted here.. apart from the last line.. has anything to do with what I'm talking about here.

Well the first and foremost reason people engage their neighbours in discussion is PEACE! Otherwise your neighbour only need weapons to take whatever he/she needs from you by force. So peace is the ultimate goal of chatting with your neighbour!

afficionado7:
Wilgrea7 but... but... he has quoted the bible na. Doesn't that answer everything?

Quoting the Bible is like showing you where the wisdom comes from. I don't believe in my own intelligence rather i rely on the counsel found in God's word.
So if you think you're wiser than what God's word says please prove it to me!

MaxInDHouse:

Well the first and foremost reason people engage their neighbours in discussion is PEACE!

People engage in discussions to exchange ideas. Stop trying to push your peace narrative into every single thing.

Otherwise your neighbour only need weapons to take whatever he/she needs from you by force. So peace is the ultimate goal of chatting with your neighbour!

What on earth does this have to do with anything? You're going off on a whole different tangent here

Quoting the Bible is like showing you where the wisdom comes from. I don't believe in my own intelligence rather i rely on the counsel found in God's word.

When your source of wisdom is being questioned, referring that same source of wisdom to prove said source of wisdom is the definition of circular reasoning.

By your logic, i could prove harry Potter and Lord Voldemort exist by referencing the novels.

So if you think you're wiser than what God's word says please prove it to me!

Your God thinks it's a good idea to stone people who don't work on sabbaths.. I think otherwise.. nuff said.

Wilgrea7, I didn't know you've become an atheist

hopefulLandlord:
Wilgrea7, I didn't know you've become an atheist

To be honest, I don't know what words would best describe my beliefs at this point. They've shifted a lot since 5 years ago.

But as far as belief in a "god" goes, at least in the religious sense, I certainly lack one. Plus I've been labelled an atheist so many times recently, I've just kinda gone along with it.

Wilgrea7:


To be honest, I don't know what words would best describe my beliefs at this point. They've shifted a lot since 5 years ago.

But as far as belief in a "god" goes, at least in the religious sense, I certainly lack one. Plus I've been labelled an atheist so many times recently, I've just kinda gone along with it.

Welcome my brother.

If you need any apartment, condo, duplex or home in hell feel free to contact me.

We have the best amenities in hell and guarantee your eternity will be filled with a lot of bad beaches, booze and loud.

Dm me whenever you are ready to secure your spot.

Wilgrea7:

By your logic, i could prove harry Potter and Lord Voldemort exist by referencing the novels.

Present a group of people practicing what the book says and what they're benefitting from it!

MaxInDHouse:

Present a group of people practicing what the book says and what they're benefitting from it!

Athiest mumu die.
The writers of the Bible clearly wrote their books as true events while Harry potter is just work of literature. The author never claim it was a recorded true life story.

cornelboy:

Athiest mumu die.
The writers of the Bible clearly wrote their books as true events while Harry potter is just work of literature. The author never claim it was a recorded true life story.

Na you be the real mumu. You insult people that actually think and question and research when you believe in a book that says the earth is 6,000 yrs old, that the world is flat and has four corners and is floating on water. You believe a book that says there was a flood that covered the mountains of the world and then all of this water somehow magically disappeared. Meanwhile Egyptians had been recording events for centuries and not one of them wrote about this big-ass flood. You believe a book that says the earth does not move, that darkness covered the whole earth because someone was nailed to a cross. Who is the actual mumu? He say na true events. Lol

afficionado7:

Na you be the real mumu. You insult people that actually think and question and research when you believe in a book that says the earth is 6,000 yrs old, that the world is flat and has four corners and is floating on water. You believe a book that says there was a flood that covered the mountains of the world and then all of this water somehow magically disappeared. Meanwhile Egyptians had been recording events for centuries and not one of them wrote about this big-ass flood. You believe a book that says the earth does not move, that darkness covered the whole earth because someone was nailed to a cross. Who is the actual mumu? He say na true events. Lol

Na you mumu aswear.
If the world really was covered with flood and everyone died, how would the Egyptians witness the whole thing and record it?
You see say your mumu no be here?

Another fact is that the flood happened many years before the kingdom of Egypt emerged.

The Bible never mentioned the age of the earth and never said the earth is flat and has four corners.

cornelboy:

Athiest mumu die.
The writers of the Bible clearly wrote their books as true events while Harry potter is just work of literature. The author never claim it was a recorded true life story.

Not just that but they can see with their own eyes that people globally are striving to live up to what the Bible say so let them point to people living in harmony with Harry Potter's story book! Matthew 5:14-16

cornelboy:

Na you mumu aswear.
If the world really was covered with flood and everyone died, how would the Egyptians witness the whole thing and record it?
You see say your mumu no be here?

Another fact is that the flood happened many years before the kingdom of Egypt emerged.

The Bible never mentioned the age of the earth and never said the earth is flat and has four corners.

Most atheists are former members of the churches of Christendom and Muslims so they based their judgment on the misconception thought in their false religions!

MaxInDHouse:

Present a group of people practicing what the book says and what they're benefitting from it!

I don't know if missing the point is something you consciously do, or if it's an involuntary thing for you at this point.

Whether people practice what's in the book or not is completely irrelevant. I never talked about benefitting from anything.

I made a statement about trying to prove a book by said book.. resulting in circular reasoning. Address that first before you start talking about benefits.. Finish one thing before jumping to the other.

cornelboy:

Athiest mumu die.
The writers of the Bible clearly wrote their books as true events while Harry potter is just work of literature. The author never claim it was a recorded true life story.

The fact that you're saying something like this shows how much you missed the point of my initial statement.

I said that quoting from your book to prove your book is circular reasoning. You're yet to address that.

If the authenticity of a historical document was brought into question, would you quote said historical document in defense of itself? That's not how logic works.. but that's how religion seems to work

cornelboy:

Na you mumu aswear.
If the world really was covered with flood and everyone died, how would the Egyptians witness the whole thing and record it?
You see say your mumu no be here?

I have an interesting story to tell you.. several giant alien saucers flew around the earth .. 10 minutes ago .. everyone saw them.

But they used a memory erasing device to make everyone forget it.. my God told me to make a tinfoil hat and stuff my face with yam.. so the device wouldn't work on me..

As you can see.. your memories were erased.. but mine wasn't. If the mind-erasing thing never happened, you would be here corroborating my story. But since you're not, then it means your mind was erased too.

Do you see the similarity now? Do you see how outlandish such a statement is?

If we want to check for evidence of a worldwide flood that happened at the same time, there are lots of things we can turn to.

Archeological evidence is a good one... Writings of other civilization at the time can also be helpful.. So far.. your story doesn't seem to be winning either of them.

Another fact is that the flood happened many years before the kingdom of Egypt emerged.

You're using the word “emerged" as if kingdoms just kinda rise from the ground abruptly. The people who eventually form those kingdoms came from somewhere.. and they could have written things down.. or passed stories down.. like the Israelites did.

The Bible never mentioned the age of the earth and never said the earth is flat and has four corners.

1. Age of the earth - The biblical timeline traced from adam down to people like Moses or Joseph imply a young earth.

2. Flat earth

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Now if course, there are verses that seem to also imply that the earth is somewhat round, or like a dome, like

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in

Which goes to show that the bible authors had different concepts on how the earth was.. But to claim that a flat earth wasn't implied in some verses.. is just not true

Wilgrea7:

I don't know if missing the point is something you consciously do, or if it's an involuntary thing for you at this point.
Whether people practice what's in the book or not is completely irrelevant. I never talked about benefitting from anything.
I made a statement about trying to prove a book by said book.. resulting in circular reasoning. Address that first before you start talking about benefits.. Finish one thing before jumping to the other.

This is where we always have issues, people don't just come together to argue aimlessly there must be something to benefit otherwise it's worthless arguing just for the fun of it.

If billions of people takes a book seriously and you feel they should do the same with another book then you as an intelligent being should first consider what benefit they derive from the book in question perhaps they can get the same from your own book if not better, but insisting that intelligent beings like you should consider something they can't see it's benefits makes your sanity questionable!

Lol. I'm done. As always, they just want to WIN an argument

MaxInDHouse:



This is where we always have issues, people don't just come together to argue aimlessly there must be something to benefit otherwise it's worthless arguing just for the fun of it.

If billions of people takes a book seriously and you feel they should do the same with another book then you as an intelligent being should first consider what benefit they derive from the book in question perhaps they can get the same from your own book if not better, but insisting that intelligent beings like you should consider something they can't see it's benefits makes your sanity questionable!

I am more than willing to debate you on the points you've mentioned above...

But as I've said before, the things you're talking about here.. and the statement I made earlier about circular reasoning are 2 different discussions.

Address mine first and I'll address yours. Do NOT shift the goalpost

afficionado7:
Lol. I'm done. As always, they just want to WIN an argument

"No weapon formed against you will have any success, And you will condemn any tongue that rises up against you in the judgment. This is the heritage of the servants of Jehovah, And their righteousness is from me,” declares Jehovah" Isaiah 54:17

When dealing with misinformed religionists you will see yourself making sense but not with the worshipers of the true God because we will make you see how low your IQ!

Wilgrea7:

I am more than willing to debate you on the points you've mentioned above...
But as I've said before, the things you're talking about here.. and the statement I made earlier about circular reasoning are 2 different discussions.
Address mine first and I'll address yours. Do NOT shift the goalpost

I'm an ex agent of the Intelligence and i once worked with my colleagues securing the venue where the world's most famous atheists met.

That day i learned something strange in their gathering: they just love talking with people aimlessly!

So i've made it a point of duty that anytime i come in contact with an atheist the first thing i will target is what to gain from our debate if there's nothing then it's better to let each person be on his or her own.
Right thinking adults shouldn't just come together to debate aimlessly! 1Corinthians 9:26

hahn:


Welcome my brother.

If you need any apartment, condo, duplex or home in hell feel free to contact me.

We have the best amenities in hell and guarantee your eternity will be filled with a lot of bad beaches, booze and loud.

Dm me whenever you are ready to secure your spot.

Do u mean there's such a place & i'm still here in Nigeria? This country is worse than hell! Pls i'm ready to bath in that eternal fire where "their worms & maggots do not die". If worms & maggots could survive,then i'll do better than them! What step should i take next because i need to be there.

cornelboy:

Athiest mumu die.
The writers of the Bible clearly wrote their books as true events while Harry potter is just work of literature. The author never claim it was a recorded true life story.

So if the author of harry Potter should come out tomorrow to say she has been hiding the truth all this while, that all she wrote actually happened, will your argument still hold?

Templee333:

Do u mean there's such a place & i'm still here in Nigeria? This country is worse than hell! Pls i'm ready to bath in that eternal fire where "their worms & maggots do not die". If worms & maggots could survive,then i'll do better than them! What step should i take next because i need to be there.

Dm me for details on how to pay upfront. You will have to have faith that the homes will be there after you die and go to hell

MaxInDHouse:


I'm an ex agent of the Intelligence and i once worked with my colleagues securing the venue where the world's most famous atheists met.

I don't know what you want me to say. Congratulations??

That day i learned something strange in their gathering: they just love talking with people aimlessly!

So i've made it a point of duty that anytime i come in contact with an atheist the first thing i will target is what to gain from our debate if there's nothing then it's better to let each person be on his or her own.
Right thinking adults shouldn't just come together to debate aimlessly! 1Corinthians 9:26

You have the ability to debate almost anyone on the flimsiest of topics relating to religion here on nairaland.. but when asked simple straightforward questions.. all of a sudden you don't debate aimlessly

That's the same excuse you used to run away from my thread on justifying old testament atrocities.

If you don't have a rebuttal.. then just say so. Trying to switch the goalpost to peace or bringing up irrelevant stories isn't doing anything for you