^^^ I can live with that zikky.







Only I keep hearing Henry Ford: " . . . my car in any colour - as long as it is black!"

"God said I will open the windows of heaven and pour you a blessing that there won't be room enough for you to receive it" is what the suckers in the church want to hear from their false pastors without asking for any proof. So tithe collectors will continue to fight tooth and nail to support tithing until God opens the eyes of these suckers that tithing is not for Christians today.
All the people I personally know that pay tithes I cannot call any of them blessed financially. But pastors that collect tithes yes they are blessed financially.

@Enigma:

Glad you're sheathing the sword! WT's position as stated is clear enough and to be sincere, fair and tenable enough. Tis just your "suspicion" which can't be proved for now! Even if he kneels with arms outstretched saying "tithes can go anywhere", only the future can confirm that position!

And pleeeaaasSssssse, avoid bandying words with people who bring nothing to the table except seeking (as is their usual parasitic nature) to ride on intellect which they lack.

@ nuclearboy

I'm afraid I completely stand by my interpretation of wordtalk's position.

As for those ones when bring nothing to table ---- na to just ignore.

Zikkyy:

but i'll go with the position he has communicated

That remains my view as well - I take people at their words and if that word doesn't match up with actions at a later point, then that will be the time to call them out. I don't understand fully the reason for a non-committal stance, but I'll take that over any strict definitions that all must comply with.

Zikkyy:

There are just two (possible) tithers on around here that supports voluntary tithing namely; debosky & wordtalk  and i think its personal to them.

Personally I have ceased to consider myself a 'tither' or anything of the sort - I give as I have decided in my heart and nothing more. I haven't arrived at this point quickly though - I struggled for a long time with ministries that insisted tithing was compulsory, and struggled with getting myself out of that mindset. I can say I'm free of that now, but I continue to challenge myself to give as much as I can and downplay any reference to percentage.

debosky:
. . . .
Personally I have ceased to consider myself a 'tither' or anything of the sort - I give as I have decided in my heart and nothing more. I haven't arrived at this point quickly though - I struggled for a long time with ministries that insisted tithing was compulsory, and struggled with getting myself out of that mindset. I can say I'm free of that now, but I continue to challenge myself to give as much as I can and downplay any reference to percentage.

@ debosky

Subject to your point that maybe garyarnold is forceful about people not using the word "tithes/"tithing" etc ---- BUT the quoted above is exactly garyarnoold's point when he says no one tithes today ---- because no one truly does it according to the Bible whether it is Genesis, Leviticus, Deuteronomy or Nehemiah or anywhere else

And that is why I agree with him that it is better really to stick to the true new Testament teaching which avoids the word "tithes" or "tithing" altogether and instead focuses on giving ---- giving cheerfully

That is why I posted the below earlier:

All this rigmarole really would be unnecessary if Christians and especially the preachers/teachers/"pastors" would really and truly follow or teach according to the simple New Testament message of 2 Corinthians 9:7 interpreted in accordance with Jesus' teaching and emphasis on helping the needy, Paul's stressing of helping poor Christians and general consensus of supporting churches' reasonable* financial costs.

Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

EDIT Addendum: agreeing to the use of "voluntary tithing" for "tithing" that includes anyhow and any place the so-called "tither" chooses (and even using "tither" is a concession on my side (and now presumably on garyarnold's side) but is not truly biblical ---- it is only a compromise.

That is why it is double-standard to keep going at garyarnold for that viewpoint in my view ---- except possibly maybe that he is too forceful about it.



Edited

In all,
The restlessness of some will continue as long as no one says he/she is forced to pay tithe, on this forum.
Please live and let live, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Wordtalk, Debosky, Zikky and Nuclearboy have more or less summed it up. 

@ debosky

PS Don't you know/think I remember when you used to argue more or less (not exactly expressly) in favour of compulsory tithing with me among others as it happens!

debosky:

That remains my view as well - I take people at their words and if that word doesn't match up with actions at a later point, then that will be the time to call them out. I don't understand fully the reason for a non-committal stance, but I'll take that over any strict definitions that all must comply with.

Personally I have ceased to consider myself a 'tither' or anything of the sort - I give as I have decided in my heart and nothing more. I haven't arrived at this point quickly though - I struggled for a long time with ministries that insisted tithing was compulsory, and struggled with getting myself out of that mindset. I can say I'm free of that now, but I continue to challenge myself to give as much as I can and downplay any reference to percentage.

Your position makes sense and I believe that's where many christians are heading unless pastors can credibly show that tithing is required of christians today, from every income. And the bolded effectively and correctly dismisses, in my view, the claim that any christian giving is a giving of a percentage. It is a stretch that makes the word ‘percentage’ useless. Perhaps it is a serious and sincere attempt to find New Testament support, which is non-existent, for tithing. I think it is unnecessary and unwise to defend tithing - voluntary or not – on that basis. Tithers are on better ground defending their belief on the basis of Genesis and ‘universal ‘ practice than trying to torture a NT verse.

Enigma:

Subject to your point that maybe garyarnold is forceful about people not using the word "tithes/"tithing" etc ---- BUT the quoted above is exactly garyarnoold's point when he says no one tithes today ---- because no one truly does it according to the Bible whether it is Genesis, Leviticus, Deuteronomy or Nehemiah or anywhere else

You still don't get it. i don't see anybody claiming he/she tithing according to the bible. Jo for example, is tithing based on some principle he cannot explain

i think what i read people say here is that, if some great men did it in the bible, nothing wrong in us adopting a similar practice take another practice like first fruit, how do you determine the 'first' of the 'first-fruit' of your salary or how do you arrive at a 'sheaf' of the first-fruit of your salary Nna leave matter, as long as there is no standing instruction from the Almighty on the tithing method to adopt, people can define their giving as they deem fit nothing concern me The issue still remains the communications to third parties in an attempt to make them adopt these practices (usually as defined by the pastor)

Zikkyy:

You still don't get it. i don't see anybody claiming he/she tithing according to the bible. Jo for example, is tithing based on some principle he cannot explain

i think what i read people say here is that, if some great men did it in the bible, nothing wrong in us adopting a similar practice take another practice like first fruit, how do you determine the 'first' of the 'first-fruit' of your salary or how do you arrive at a 'sheaf' of the first-fruit of your salary Nna leave matter, as long as there is no standing instruction from the Almighty on the tithing method to adopt, people can define their giving as they deem fit nothing concern me The issue still remains the communications to third parties in an attempt to make them adopt these practices (usually as defined by the pastor)

That is indeed and has always been the issue --- remember we have always said we have no problem if a person chooses to "tithe" - especially if the person knows that it is NOT a Christian obligation. 

Enigma:

@ debosky

PS Don't you know/think I remember when you used to argue more or less (not exactly expressly) in favour of compulsory tithing with me among others as it happens! 

Of course I know - my opponent-in-chief in those days was my brother nuclearboy!

Like I said, I'm not ashamed to say it's been a process for me, but not something I was told by anyone else but something I personally searched the scriptures and discovered for myself.

Enigma:

@ debosky

Subject to your point that maybe garyarnold is forceful about people not using the word "tithes/"tithing" etc ---- BUT the quoted above is exactly garyarnoold's point when he says no one tithes today ---- because no one truly does it according to the Bible whether it is Genesis, Leviticus, Deuteronomy or Nehemiah or anywhere else

I don't believe it has to be 'biblical', beyond being a form of giving for tithing to be accepted, once we accept that tithe in its most ordinary meaning is 10%.

And that is why I agree with him that it is better really to stick to the true new Testament teaching which avoids the word "tithes" or "tithing" altogether and instead focuses on giving ---- giving cheerfully

This is the same view I hold.

EDIT Addendum: agreeing to the use of "voluntary tithing" for "tithing" that includes anyhow and any place the so-called "tither" chooses (and even using "tither" is a concession on my side (and now presumably on garyarnold's side) but is not truly biblical ---- it is only a compromise.

But it is biblical, as long as it is a form of giving (i.e. 10%) as decided in the heart of the giver. It is very much biblical as it is a valid form of giving. Calling it tithe takes nothing away from it, as long as the context is understood as meaning 10% and nothing else.

It only becomes 'unbiblical' if it is tagged 'Abramic' tithing or 'Deuteronomical' tithing, as you now have to achieve similitude with those examples to make such a direct claim. We have clearly established that none of the practices today meet those requirements.

@ debosky

I gree wetin dey most of ya post ------ except for one thing.

I think you slightly misunderstand what "is not truly biblical". It is entirely biblical as a form of giving to choose to set aside 10% of one's income and give it in/to "church". What we tolerate but we say that is strictly speaking not biblical is the appellation "tithe/tithing" a[i]s though it is the same as any found in Genesis, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Malachi, Nehemiah etc. All they have in common is that in each case it is 10% or a tenth ----- beyond that there is no strict accordance with any of the biblical examples or injunctions.[/i] However, remember also that we tolerate the use of the expression"voluntary tithing" when it includes that which the "tither" can give (or "pay" in any form and anywhere even outside "church".

Anyway, as zikky said the far more important thing is to challenge the teaching/preaching of compulsory tithing whether expressly or surreptitiously in the form of "voluntary tithing" that is not truly voluntary.

One question: do you reaaally think garyarnold believes people should be tithing from trash can?

Garyarnold has not withdrawn the statement, but you expect someone else to know if he reaaally meant that?

And I won't withdraw that statement.  I didn't say I would give a tenth of trash, I was making the point that IF tithing can be on ANYTHING, then trash qualifies.  That's all.  Voluntary giving can be the giving of trash, but that doesn't mean anyone is going to give trash.

MrBible said, “All the people I personally know that pay tithes I cannot call any of them blessed financially.”

Exactly the same with me.  I personally don't know even one person who claims to be a tither than has been blessed financially enough to where it shows.  ALL of them tell me the same thing - I tithe and my needs are met.  Well, that means nothing.  All the years I was an atheist my needs were also met. 

Wordtalk accuses me of bragging but puts on her own website the following:
“However, expressing my giving through tithing is an act of worship and a demonstration of my stewardship to God.”
“My giving is not limited to alms but extends to tithing – the voluntary giving of a tenth of my income, set apart as my priestly act of worship to God.”

If I was bragging, then wordtalk must also be bragging.  Otherwise, wordtalk has once against used a double standard.  Personally, I don’t think wordtalk is bragging here but rather using what she does as a way of teaching, the same way I use what I do as a way of teaching.

As a general statement to which there may be many exceptions, so-call tithers are the only ones broadcasting the percentage they give.  And like I have already said, there is no reason to use the word "tithe" today other than to let others know that you are giving a tenth, and it will be inferred that it is a tenth of your income.  This "voluntary tithing" is an ego thing as far as I'm concerned.

@garyarnold,

I have stated for the umpteenth time that this thread is not about personalities or between you and me. If you can share your views without having hypertensions over mine, that would be cool. But since you are not content until you have mentioned "wordtalk" as if my articles and comments are your nightmares, then you're calling for a part of me that will leave you deeply sorry. Trust me.

garyarnold:

Wordtalk accuses me of bragging but puts on her his own website the following:
“However, expressing my giving through tithing is an act of worship and a demonstration of my stewardship to God.”
“My giving is not limited to alms but extends to tithing – the voluntary giving of a tenth of my income, set apart as my priestly act of worship to God.”

And what is wrong with that?

If I was bragging, then wordtalk must also be bragging.  Otherwise, wordtalk has once against used a double standard.

Red herring. I have nowhere told anyone the DETAILS of my giving. If you stated your giving such as you did in that hubpage I cited earlier such as "Being Spirit led, I find that I am led to give MUCH MORE than a mere ten percent of my income, time, and talents", that's fine and I would not consider that bragging. But to then put up an air of superiority and then go into such details as purchasing 20-inch tv instead of an HDTV or giving $1000 dollars for church building fund, etc. to make you feel good over the other person you were discussing with - that is braggadocio, dude.

It is not only on my website that I have explained what tithing means to me; but you will not see me brag or boast about giving "far, far, far, far, far more than" anyone else! Others on this forum have indicated what tithing or giving may mean to them without the need for your supercilious braggadocio. Bragging the way you do and trying your hardest to deny it is below you.

Personally, I don’t think wordtalk is bragging here but rather using what he does as a way of teaching, the same way I use what I do as a way of teaching.

Thank you for acknowledging I was not bragging; but that is not at par with "the same way" you claim to teach - what you were doing in that hub was bragging. Label it as may soothe your conscience, you can't hide the fact.

As a general statement to which there may be many exceptions, so-call tithers are the only ones broadcasting the percentage they give.

Oh, so YOU never broadcast your own percentage? Are you not the same garyarnold who openly announced in that hub that your "total giving to the church and to those who [you] know are in need, probably exceeds 25 or 30 percent of my income"? Are you for real or just talented at being deceptive? 

And like I have already said, there is no reason to use the word "tithe" today other than to let others know that you are giving a tenth, and it will be inferred that it is a tenth of your income.  This "voluntary tithing" is an ego thing as far as I'm concerned.

You're free to conclude as you may, even if your generalizations are unfounded.

Wordtalk - you really do have an ego problem.

garyarnold:

Wordtalk - you really do have an ego problem.

I don't. I have asked you to share your views and concentrate on doing just that. Your reaction with recourse to what I say sometimes betrays your own problem.

Enigma:

@ debosky

I gree wetin dey most of ya post ------ except for one thing. 

I think you slightly misunderstand what "is not truly biblical". It is entirely biblical as a form of giving to choose to set aside 10% of one's income and give it in/to "church".

Agreed, which is why it can be called tithe AND be biblical because tithing in its base meaning is 10%. There is no difference between 10% and the basic meaning of tithe.

What we tolerate but we say that is strictly speaking not biblical is the appellation "tithe/tithing" a[i]s though it is the same as any found in Genesis, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Malachi, Nehemiah etc. All they have in common is that in each case it is 10% or a tenth ----- beyond that there is no strict accordance with any of the biblical examples or injunctions.[/i] However, remember also that we tolerate the use of the expression"voluntary tithing" when it includes that which the "tither" can give (or "pay" in any form and anywhere even outside "church".

I think we are saying the same thing - as long as it is not deemed identical to any of the other tithes in the bible - then it is biblical in my view.

Anyway, as zikky said the far more important thing is to challenge the teaching/preaching of compulsory tithing whether expressly or surreptitiously in the form of "voluntary tithing" that is not truly voluntary.   

If in truth it isn't truly voluntary - I have seen no evidence (beyond your suspicion) that it isn't truly voluntary. From the responses WT has made, others are free to determine what they choose to give and call it what they please.

That is sufficient for me - as of what is truly in his/her heart, only God can truly judge that - and that goes for all of us.

It is entirely biblical as a form of giving to choose to set aside 10% of one's income and give it in/to "church".

Agreed, which is why it can be called tithe AND be biblical because tithing in its base meaning is 10%.

Sorry, debosky, but that doesn't meet the definition of Biblical.

IF it is Biblical to call giving a tenth of your income to the Church, then it must say so in the Bible.

Webster's Unabridged Dictionary:
Bib·li·cal adj.
1. of or in the Bible: a Biblical name.
2. in accord with the Bible.
3. evocative of or suggesting the Bible or Biblical times, esp. in size or extent: disaster on a Biblical scale; a Biblical landscape.

There is NOTHING in the Bible stating any tithe IN THE CHURCH.

Just because the word "tithe" and "tithing" is in the Bible, doesn't mean you can use those words OUT OF CONTEXT and still call it Biblical.

Tithing is Biblical. Tithing to the Church is NOT Biblical, BY DEFINITION. The word "tither" isn't even in the KJV.

@ debosky

Just one comment: you actually read into my post something that was not intended though somewhat understandably in the circumstances. Reference to teaching of compulsory tithing surreptitiously as voluntary tithing was not directed at any individual --- it was and is a general reference; bear in mind it was not here on nairaland that I first encountered the teaching of "voluntary tithing" that is not truly voluntary. Some people have been teaching this recently; in fact there was a debate in which it featured/was used on one of the UK "Christian" channels not too long ago.

debosky:

If in truth it isn't truly voluntary - I have seen no evidence (beyond your suspicion) that it isn't truly voluntary. From the responses WT has made, others are free to determine what they choose to give and call it what they please.

In two sentences, you have captured the whole matter and consistently restated the obvious. I think in a sense, the restlessness is nothing more than the suspicion(s), which add absolutely nothing helpful. 'Voluntary' is 'voluntary' without making stringent rules of definition, preconceived meanings, and applications. It is when people begin to seek pedantic definitions of words and constructs that simplicity in meanings is lost!

This is why I have reiterated far too many times that I allow for others to tithe voluntarily in the manner that voluntary tithing is meaningful to them as long as there are no demands for conformity, rigidity, legalism or compulsion.

Since conformity is not the goal nor the gist in our arguments, I don't see why anyone would be raising issues about "strict accordance with" anything -

I think you slightly misunderstand what "is not truly biblical". It is entirely biblical as a form of giving to choose to set aside 10% of one's income and give it in/to "church". What we tolerate but we say that is strictly speaking not biblical is the appellation "tithe/tithing" as though it is the same as any found in Genesis, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Malachi, Nehemiah etc. All they have in common is that in each case it is 10% or a tenth ----- beyond that there is no strict accordance with any of the biblical examples or injunctions.

'Tithe' in "voluntary tithing" bears the same sense in principle with those found in Genesis, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Malachi, Nehemiah, etc. The sense is simply the giving of a tenth of one's resources. I have not argued anywhere to make the giving of voluntary tithes to be in "strict accordance" with any of the passages found in the Bible. The "strict accordance" idea suggests nothing more than a hard-and-fast, prosaic, literal interpretation of those passages - and that is not what I have been arguing to favour.

garyarnold:

Just because the word "tithe" and "tithing" is in the Bible, doesn't mean you can use those words OUT OF CONTEXT and still call it Biblical.

It is absolutely okay to use any word from any verse in the Bible to convey a simple concept that is applicable for contemporary Christian living. That is what theologians do every single day in hermeneutics - and no theologian would be worth his salt as a theologian without this basic exegetical principle.

Tithing is Biblical. Tithing to the Church is NOT Biblical, BY DEFINITION.

Tithing is Biblical - tithing to church is also Biblical. To argue against tithing to Church on the basis of your own narrow "definition" is the reason why I try to avoid strictures for any Christian in the Body of Christ. Go back and see the meanings of the definition you drew for Biblical and consider the meaning of 'evocative of or suggesting'.

The word "tither" isn't even in the KJV.

That's true - and there are so many words that YOU use in discussing tithing/tithes that are not even in the KJV. Examples? Where in the KJV do YOU read of the word "ASSET"?

What about another favorite word that anti-tithers use - "freewill"? Are you aware that "freewill offering" or "freewill offerings" are not used in the New Testament in the KJV? Even the word "freewill" is not used in the NT in the KJV.

Everytime we find either of those terms ("freewill offering" or "freewill offerings", it is in the OLD TESTAMENT and not once used for the Church in the New Testament! But anti-tithers who have problems with tithes and tithing in the Church will never cough on the fact that their beloved "freewill offerings" are not used in the Church but quite often in relation to the animal sacrifices and flour which Israel offered in Judaism (for example, Lev. 22:21 - "a freewill offering in beeves or sheep".

We don't have any problem with using the term "freewill offering(s)" for the Church today. We are not even going to quarrel over definitions about "voluntary" or "freewill offerings", nor are we going to war over questions of whether it is "Biblical" for the Church. We as "tithers" accept the use of "freewill offerings" in the Church today even if it is not once used in the New Testament! And yes, "the silver and the gold are a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers" (Ezra 8:28) - no quibbling over that!

It is this kind of rigidity and literalism over words in your 'KJV' that I find quite worrisome in your arguments. You should not be quarrelling over dicta in other people's comments when in fact you're fond of using words which you will not find in your beloved KJV! As the Amplified says in 2 Timothy 2:14, "avoid petty controversy over words, which does no good but upsets and undermines the faith of the hearers." Your complaining is just quite the petty controversy that all reasonable believers should avoid.

@ garyarnold, wordtalk, enigma, nuclearboy, zikkyy, Pastor Kun, debosky, nlmediator etc (please dont be offended if i didnt mention your name, its a pretty long list)

I just want to say a BIG thank you to you all for your insightful comments, I have closely followed your arguments, analysis, conclusions etc and to be honest, i have been fed spiritually (you have no idea), as they have forced me to STUDY the word in-depth on this issue of tithing, offerings, giving etc and arrive at my personal conclusion (i'll keep that to myself)

God bless you all,

wordtalk:

'Tithe' in "voluntary tithing" bears the same sense in principle with those found in Genesis, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Malachi, Nehemiah, etc. The sense is simply the giving of a tenth of one's resources. I have not argued anywhere to make the giving of voluntary tithes to be in "strict accordance" with any of the passages found in the Bible. The "strict accordance" idea suggests nothing more than a hard-and-fast, prosaic, literal interpretation of those passages - and that is not what I have been arguing to favour.

"Voluntary tithing" is only truly voluntary if the "voluntary tither" can choose to "tithe" not with money but with food, provisions etc and can choose not to give the "voluntary tithe" in/to church but to widows, orphans other charities etc.

In principle of course.



I remind myself once more of the eloquent Sir Humphrey.

It's clear that the Committee has agreed that your new policy is really an excellent plan. But in view of some of the doubts being expressed, may I propose that I recall that after careful consideration, the considered view of the Committee was that, while they considered that the proposal met with broad approval in principle, that some of the principles were sufficiently fundamental in principle, and some of the considerations so complex and finely balanced in practice that in principle it was proposed that the sensible and prudent practice would be to submit the proposal for more detailed consideration, laying stress on the essential continuity of the new proposal with existing principles, the principle of the principal arguments which the proposal proposes and propounds for their approval. In principle.

aniffy4eva:

@ garyarnold, wordtalk, enigma, nuclearboy, zikkyy, Pastor Kun, debosky, nlmediator etc (please dont be offended if i didnt mention your name, its a pretty long list)

I just want to say a BIG thank you to you all for your insightful comments, I have closely followed your arguments, analysis, conclusions etc and to be honest, i have been fed spiritually (you have no idea), as they have forced me to STUDY the word in-depth on this issue of tithing, offerings, giving etc and arrive at my personal conclusion (i'll keep that to myself)

God bless you all,

Fab, aniffy4eva.

God bless you too.

A little exercise to explain the nomenclature point, why it matters whether the wording "tithe/tithing" is used and why there has been unfairness to garyarnold for querying the appropriateness of the continued use of the word "tithing".

Here are examples of three Christian givers. (I am using just three examples but people can figure out that there are myriad permutations)


1. Mr A earns 1000 a month; unfailingly he gives 100 a month as "tithe" in/to "church"; he gives 50 a month as offering; he then gives up to 20 to other needy causes outside "church".


2. Mr B earns 1000 a month; he gives anything up to 90 in/to church every month, he then gives 110 to other needy causes outside the "church".


3. Mrs C is a seller of "provisions"; any time that she is going to buy stock, she buys 10% extra (e.g. instead of buying 100 cans of milk, she buys 110); she regularly takes the extra 10% to her local orphanage; she then gives about 5% of her net profits in/to "church".


Now a couple of points from these three examples>

Anyone who truly believes in voluntary "tithing" must accept that all three are "tithers".*

On the other hand, compulsory "tithers" will say that only Mr A is "tithing" and is a "tither".**

Worse, some compulsory "tithers" will say that only Mr A can enjoy some "special blessings" that derive from "tithing".


EDIT * Anyone who does not accept or even acknowledge that Mr B and Mrs C are "tithers" is in reality preaching compulsory "tithing". QED

Further EDIT (This is quite important): ** some compulsory "tithers", e.g. Chris Oyakhilome, will say that Mr B and Mrs C are robbing God!

[slight digression]

Anyone know how to start a thread with a poll? I'd like to create a thread where people can vote (anonymously if they prefer) on which of the people in the three examples above is a "tither". If you know how, please describe briefly, thanks.

[/slight digression]

^^ Contact the section moderator - he/she can add a poll, or failing that, open a new thread and add a poll.

garyarnold:

It is entirely biblical as a form of giving to choose to set aside 10% of one's income and give it in/to "church".

Agreed, which is why it can be called tithe AND be biblical because tithing in its base meaning is 10%.

Sorry, debosky, but that doesn't meet the definition of Biblical.

IF it is Biblical to call giving a tenth of your income to the Church, then it must say so in the Bible.

Webster's Unabridged Dictionary:
Bib·li·cal adj.
1. of or in the Bible: a Biblical name.
2. in accord with the Bible.
3. evocative of or suggesting the Bible or Biblical times, esp. in size or extent: disaster on a Biblical scale; a Biblical landscape.

There is NOTHING in the Bible stating any tithe IN THE CHURCH.

Just because the word "tithe" and "tithing" is in the Bible, doesn't mean you can use those words OUT OF CONTEXT and still call it Biblical.

Tithing is Biblical. Tithing to the Church is NOT Biblical, BY DEFINITION. The word "tither" isn't even in the KJV.

Interesting view. You have said you've given 25% of your income in the past - since the bible does not explicitly say 'you can give 25%' then your giving is not biblical.

Can you see the folly of your assertion?

10% is completely biblical as long as the giver has decided in his heart to give 10%. 2 Corinthians 9:7 makes it biblical because that verse instructs the individual to decide how much to give in his heart, be it 10% or 25%. If you are unhappy the person is calling it tithe, that is simply your own problem. It remains completely biblical.

Unless you are saying giving 10% is expressly prohibited in the bible (while other percentages are allowed) then you are wrong on this count.

Giving any percentage is in 'accord with the bible' as your definition states - there doesn't have to be an exact exemplar of that practice in the bible for it to be 'in accord with the bible'.

@ debosky

How do you include a poll in a new thread (that was my original intention)?

However, you have given a good idea and I will ask Jesoul when she comes online whether the poll can actually be added to this thread.

Ta. 

Enigma:

@ debosky

Just one comment: you actually read into my post something that was not intended though somewhat understandably in the circumstances. Reference to teaching of compulsory tithing surreptitiously as voluntary tithing was not directed at any individual --- it was and is a general reference; bear in mind it was not here on nairaland that I first encountered the teaching of "voluntary tithing" that is not truly voluntary. Some people have been teaching this recently; in fact there was a debate in which it featured/was used on one of the UK "Christian" channels not too long ago.

In that case apologies for misreading your post. I agree completely with you that any such surreptitious teaching should be exposed. I'd rather someone come out and hold the view (albeit mistakenly) that tithing is compulsory than try to con people by claiming it is voluntary but really promoting compulsory tithing.

Enigma:

@ debosky

How do you include a poll in a new thread (that was my original intention)?

After creating the first post in the new thread and posting it, refresh the thread and the add poll button should be visible somewhere at the top of the page. If that fails, try modifying the first post and you should see an option to add a poll.

debosky:

In that case apologies for misreading your post. I agree completely with you that any such surreptitious teaching should be exposed. I'd rather someone come out and hold the view (albeit mistakenly) that tithing is compulsory than try to con people by claiming it is voluntary but really promoting compulsory tithing.

^^^ One thing I like about you so very very very much is your honesty.

God bless.  


PS thanks for explanation of how to make a poll; perhaps I'll just start the thread rather than bother Jesoul.