gohf:
I wonder what an orphan child would say...

the problem with showing you is the clause, without holiness it is impossible to see God, the pure in heart are blessed to see God. Are you qualified to see Him, that should be your thought.

You should think if a president that does exist in flesh is hard to see, how much a God.

Asking for God that interacts as your earthly parents is like asking for a president that will interact with you like a lover. Not impossible but still the odds. If you don't see the problem in your request you can as well as ask for the sun to rise in your room.

Morality doesn't change, good is good, good will not become evil. Good is good, because it is not selfish nor self serving. Now the only kind of fake morality that changes is the king that caters to those in power who's needs are ever changing and never satisfied. To those whom been pleased is what is good irrespective of how it affects others or life or the earth.

We teach our children what has been taught to us, and no matter how far you wish to dig, it all begins with God no matter what name He is called in different religions or culture.

You can live in the illusion that morality is human determined but wake up the reality that humans would burn banks because of a lit displeasure or police stations or fuel stations. Question is, where did that source of morality you claimed human possess go. Did the very originators of so called morality let go of it and becomes animals.

You amuse me, you look at men and believe they are the source of morality 😂😂😂😂

1. So the sinners that saw yahweh in the Bible were what?
2. Oh, morality does change. It is both dynamic and relative. Dynamic meaning it changes over time. For example, using your favorite story book, stoning adulterous women was all good in the Old Testament, but frowned upon in the New. Same with polygamy etc. Same issue with slavery which was great in the Bible but right now is unacceptable. Morality is also relative in that what is morally right in the US is morally wrong in Nigeria. Example is binary people, LGBTQ etc
3. You said morality is from any god(irrespective of name) but you forgot those 'gods' gave laws that are relatively immoral in these days. Example is sacrificing of humans, animals, crops(which by the way, was a favorite of your Yahweh). Of course these are not practiced these days because morality has had a paradigm shift. In the next 50 years, LGBTQ, non binary folks etc would be morally right in the whole world, including the church. Of course there would be pockets of resistance but generally laws would accept it. Even now some African countries accept LGBTQ like South Africa

gohf:
even if Jesus is fictional are his so called teachings evil and shouldn't be practiced?

I hope you know the Old Testament teaches sacrifices, slavery, killing of those that work on Sabbath etc. So yes, some of the Bible teachings are deleterious

LordReed:


In decent conversations you don't jumping in with a question when another question has been asked.

My question again: Can you tell me the reason you think slavery ending is not a change of moral stance.

i think i enjoy trolling now than trying to reason with people here. Lol.

Honestly you have patience. Why i dont post on religion anymore

HardMirror:
i think i enjoy trolling now than trying to reason with people here. Lol.

Honestly you have patience. Why i dont post on religion anymore

Yeah it's not that great around here most times but sometimes I am in the mood to have a conversation and sometimes you get a good interlocutor.

gohf:
didn't alter it, just responded to queries and discuss

And lol, atheism can never be a "get out of jail card for sin" because no one can escape un-repented wickedness

Lol. Theists that practice all sorts atrocities in Nigeria weren't they thinking of the punishment? Or were they thinking of escaping?

LordReed:


Yeah it's not that great around here most times but sometimes I am in the mood to have a conversation and sometimes you get a good interlocutor.

why you should not take my recent posts too serious. I just like pulling people's strings 😂😂😂. Occationally i am serious anyway. Lol.

jaephoenix:

Lol. Theists that practice all sorts atrocities in Nigeria weren't they thinking of the punishment? Or were they thinking of escaping?

whatever they are thinking, they can be atheists, theists even Theresa herself if they don't repent from their wickedness they will face the repercussions of it

jaephoenix:

I hope you know the Old Testament teaches sacrifices, slavery, killing of those that work on Sabbath etc. So yes, some of the Bible teachings are deleterious

and you know it teaches that has what?
And who are you to know or say what it teaches and doesn't teach?

Jashub:
Josephus was a jew, not a Christian...so his writings couldn't have been in favor of any Christian doctrine because that would be heresy under Jewish law . Secondly , let's assume he were wrong ...and he was biased, but what about Tacticus and his accounts ...? Would you say he was biased too?

I would have to post the pdf later. Maybe a mail

jaephoenix:

1. So the sinners that saw yahweh in the Bible were what?
2. Oh, morality does change. It is both dynamic and relative. Dynamic meaning it changes over time. For example, using your favorite story book, stoning adulterous women was all good in the Old Testament, but frowned upon in the New. Same with polygamy etc. Same issue with slavery which was great in the Bible but right now is unacceptable. Morality is also relative in that what is morally right in the US is morally wrong in Nigeria. Example is binary people, LGBTQ etc
3. You said morality is from any god(irrespective of name) but you forgot those 'gods' gave laws that are relatively immoral in these days. Example is sacrificing of humans, animals, crops(which by the way, was a favorite of your Yahweh). Of course these are not practiced these days because morality has had a paradigm shift. In the next 50 years, LGBTQ, non binary folks etc would be morally right in the whole world, including the church. Of course there would be pockets of resistance but generally laws would accept it. Even now some African countries accept LGBTQ like South Africa

1. Which sinner saw him?
2. Writing together a bunch doesn't mean it's a sensible sentence. If you had any understanding you would have known Jesus didn't tell them not to stone her. Just like the rest of your other assumptions it shows you speak more on things you know little about and you neither listen to answers of questions you claim to ask.
3. Are you not so fixated on your twisted logic that you would even deny the very God that did not command human sacrifice but condemned so gods and demons that did, abolishing the nonsense men practiced in their search for power.


Morality and righteousness that comes from God does not change. If you like agree if you like don't agree. Men are still free to create their own form of morality and righteousness, or even self righteous. Whatever men create is only a copy of what they have seen

jaephoenix:

Not afraid. Question is, is it true?

is that really the question, if it is true and not if the answer is acceptable to you?

jaephoenix:

Why is it more in Nigeria/Africa

because your perception is limited to only what you see and know

HardMirror:
why you should not take my recent posts too serious. I just like pulling people's strings 😂😂😂. Occationally i am serious anyway. Lol.

It's ok, I enjoy our conversations.

Jashub:
Josephus was a jew, not a Christian...so his writings couldn't have been in favor of any Christian doctrine because that would be heresy under Jewish law . Secondly , let's assume he were wrong ...and he was biased, but what about Tacticus and his accounts ...? Would you say he was biased too?

This is what Tacitus wrote…

But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind

Now we cannot really judge much because this was the only referral to Jesus outside the bible. No mention of his miracles ,his divinity, his resurrection etc. So make of it whatever you want

gohf:
and what would that help be?

Get them to do what is wrong and not care who suffers for it

No. The help they need is mental state examination. If they only inducement for them to do good is to promise them goodies like heaven, then they have some manic tendencies and would need incarceration to keep them away from the society

gohf:
Hmm how pathetic its like one who can move on their own two feet saying they would help the one who moves with a wheelchair by removing the wheelchair without healing them. So if the wheelchair doesn't hurt anyone why remove it?

Your point?

gohf:
trying to explain a portrait to the blind would be easier if by now you still lack understanding of what you have read

If you prefer going around in circles, then suit yourself

gohf:
and in what way those that "illness" affect your life

Imagine if my boss has schizophrenia or bipolar disorder and sees an atheist like me in his workplace? Do you know he'll do to me? Or haven't you seen christians accuse little children of witchcraft? Or mothers being accused of witchcraft like they are responsible for their children's misfortunes? These are examples of delusions of persecutions. And these cause bodily harm, or even death.
Pastors saying they saw Yahweh and even had tea with him etc is a delusion of grandeur, and can wrongly influence easily impressionable and gullible folks which is a good percentage of the folks here.
These are mental diseases of Christianity

jaephoenix:

This is what Tacitus wrote…

But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind

Now we cannot really judge much because this was the only referral to Jesus outside the bible. No mention of his miracles ,his divinity, his resurrection etc. So make of it whatever you want

Our focus was on his existence ...not miracles nor His divinity. Which brings me to my point : Jesus did exist , and if he did , then the bible's account must be true. Therefore, it will be foolishness not to believe in the existence of a God. It's as simple as that

gohf:
I didn't give you analogies as evidence but to help your understanding. You have evidence of what you believe in, those who believe in God have their evidences. Now does that mean you're right and they are wrong?

Morality doesn't have to change because "society" changes. What exactly is changing? Definitely not the basis of a society, except one changes what makes up a society and keeps people together.

The terms of morality might improve to address more issues to help those with weaker understanding address new challenging tasks.

Be kind to your neighbor that's morality, right. The means of kindness might change or improve but that doesn't change the kindness. You can go about it how ever way you wish, even ignore whatever evidences have been shown you all through your life.

But then to you is it moral to laugh at what another believes?

Of it isn't then you are wrong and immoral to laugh at others but if it is then you are a joke as well. 😊

Would it be a stretch for you to show us evidence of your Yahweh existence?

Jashub:
Which brings me to my point : Jesus did exist , and if he did , then the bible's account must be true.

WRONG. A person called Jesus the Christ could have exist and yet the bible still be wrong about everything attributed to him except the name. You need independent corrabotion especially for the more fantastic claims like the claims of miracles or resurrection from the dead. Very often you hear the counter example New York exists therefore Spiderman exists, that is exactly what you said here.

LordReed:


WRONG. A person called Jesus the Christ could have exist and yet the bible still be wrong about everything attributed to him except the name. You need independent corrabotion especially for the more fantastic claims like the claims of miracles or resurrection from the dead. Very often you hear the counter example New York exists therefore Spiderman exists, that is exactly what you said here.

I don't understand this rubbish you just typed. But I'll humor you and give another chance to arrange your argument in a logical manner

Jashub:
I don't understand this rubbish you just typed. But I'll humor you and give another chance to arrange your argument in a logical manner

LoLz. New York exists does that mean the Spiderman comics are depictions of historical events?

LordReed:


LoLz. New York exists does that mean the Spiderman comics are depictions of historical events?

It seems you're not following the thread but I'll update you on it.

Josephus and Tacitus (two non-christian historians) admitted in their annals , that a man called Jesus existed . These men were known to be neither biased or religious in their accounts of historical facts . Which makes the validity of Jesus's existence true . Besides that's, other eyewitness accounts from the Bible verify the truth of the man Jesus .

So I don't see the connection here between New York and Spiderman .

Jashub:
It seems you're not following the thread but I'll update you on it.

Josephus and Tacitus (two non-christian historians) admitted in their annals , that a man called Jesus existed . These men were known to be neither biased or religious in their accounts of historical facts . Which makes the validity of Jesus's existed true .

So I don't see the connection here between New York and Spiderman .

Right. New York is the place Spiderman lives in in the comes. All the famous buildings and places in the RL New York are all in the Spiderman comics. If we follow your logic New York is real and is also in the comics, therefore anything the comics depict is also real. That is exactly what you said by saying "Jesus did exist , and if he did , then the bible's account must be true". That cannot be the case. That some real fact or person was included in a narrative does not automatically indicate that the narrative is also real or true.

LordReed:


Right. New York is the place Spiderman lives in in the comes. All the famous buildings and places in the RL New York are all in the Spiderman comics. If we follow your logic New York is real and is also in the comics, therefore anything the comics depict is also real. That is exactly what you said by saying "Jesus did exist , and if he did , then the bible's account must be true". That cannot be the case. That some real fact or person was included in a narrative does not automatically indicate that the narrative is also real or true.

You must be delusional. Okay...so why do you believe Socrates existed?

Jashub:
You must be delusional. Okay...so why do you believe Socrates existed?

LoLz. Getting salty already? I don't believe Socrates existed, do you?

LordReed:


LoLz. Getting salty already? I don't believe Socrates existed, do you?

So if he says he doesn't just believe God exists but knows God exists, you'll give him icecream?

gohf:
everywhere not just here

Worse in Nigeria

LordReed:


LoLz. Getting salty already? I don't believe Socrates existed, do you?

I believe Socrates existed because of the historical evidences in the writings of many historians . So what's your point ...?

gohf:
the fact you're smarter than a monkey but still feel you are related to them and call them your ancestors because its so hard to accept God accepting monkeys is way better 😂😂

Lol. What an ignoramus.
Who told you we came from monkeys?
How does the Great Ape translate into monkeys? Hope you know our DNAs are almost the same. In fact if I bring ape and human bones together , you wouldn't know the difference. And of course, there is scientific evidence we came from the great ape. Is there evidence of creation? No. Even the catholic church realized how wrong creationism is and are trying to inculcate evolutionism, Big Bang into their teaching.
Jokes on you, theist

Jashub:
I believe Socrates existed because of the historical evidences in the writings of many historians . So what's your point ...?

So do you believe every single thing written about Socrates including the contradictory things?