LegalWolf:
■You’re saying the same thing with me but you just want beat around the bush - did Abraham ever hear the word yhwh in view of Exodus 6:3?
Please yes or No (personally, your highlight in red does not help at all)

1. We are not saying the same thing at all. According to Exodus, Yes, Abraham did know of YHWH - the promise was made to Abraham after all, which is clearly what you are told in the context of Exodus 6 vs 1 - 8

Kobojunkie:
1. We are not saying the same thing at all. According to Exodus, Yes, Abraham did know of YHWH - the promise was made to Abraham after all, which is clearly what you are told in the context of Exodus 6 vs 1 - 8

Lol, you’re just trying to make a distinction without differences. I’m not inventing the words of the Bible here - Abraham never knew God as yhwh. Simple and unambiguous! In fact, the whole of Exodus does not detract from that fact!

LegalWolf:
Lol, you’re just trying to make a distinction without differences. I’m not inventing the words of the Bible here - Abraham never knew God as yhwh. Simple and unambiguous! In fact, the whole of Exodus does not detract from that fact!

Here is what is written in the passage you mentioned...

1. Then the Lord said to Moses, “Now you will see what I will do to Pharaoh. I will use my great power against him, and he will let my people go. He will be so ready for them to leave that he will force them to go.”
2 Then God said to Moses, “I am the Lord.
3 I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They called me God All-Powerful. They did not know my name, the Lord.
4 I made an agreement with them. I promised to give them the land of Canaan. They lived in that land, but it was not their own.
5 Now, I have heard their painful cries. I know that they are slaves in Egypt. And I remember my agreement.
6 So tell the Israelites that I say to them, ‘I am the Lord. I will save you. You will no longer be slaves of the Egyptians. I will use my great power to make you free, and I will bring terrible punishment to the Egyptians
7 You will be my people and I will be your God. I am the Lord your God, and you will know that I made you free from Egypt.
8 I made a great promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I promised to give them a special land. So I will lead you to that land. I will give you that land. It will be yours. I am the Lord.’” - Exodus 6 vs 1 - 6

And this is also what is written in the same book.

14 Then God said to Moses, “Tell them, ‘I Am Who I Am.’ When you go to the Israelites, tell them, ‘I Am’ sent me to you.”
15 And God said, “Tell the Israelites that you were sent by Yahweh, the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. This will always be my name. It is how I want the people to remember me from now on.
16 “Now go and call together the elders of the people. Tell them that Yahweh, the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—appeared to you. Give them this message from me: ‘I have been watching over you and have seen what people in Egypt have done to you. - Exodus 3 vs 14 - 16

If you want to believe from all that is contained in the above passages that the ancestors of the Isrealites where in the dark regarding the identity of YHWH, be my guest!

Kobojunkie:
1. Well, you already made it abundantly clear that the claims made by your fellow Muslims suggesting that the Prophets of YHWH worship Allah are false. So, pretty much resolves my original question.

Lol 😂

1. Where did I make this clear ?

2. You said these prophets openly worship yhwh and I asked you to provide a credible evidence that they did. Have you done that?

3. That my fellow Muslims approximate Yhwh to be ELOAH does not detract from the fact that Yhwh is different from ELOAH.

4. That my fellow Bahaushe brother approximate Ubangiji as ALLAH; or our Igbo friends approximate Chukwu as ELOAH does not mean Chukwu = ELOAH (this is the basis of my claim).

5. So this pretty much revolves around my thesis. We are certain that EL has always been known as God. We are certain that the name Yhwh is a later invention and that yhwh is a Canaanite god!

Ce fini

Kobojunkie:
Here is what is written in the passage you mentioned...

And this is also what is written in the same book.
If you want to believe from all that is contained in the above passages that the ancestors of the Isrealites where in the dark regarding the identity of YHWH, be my guest!

3 I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They called me God All-Powerful. They did not know my name, the Lord.

What does the underlined mean? I quoted directly from you

Maynman:


1. Is the claim of yahweh true of the sayings of the jews?
2. Why would the jews say such thing?
3. Does any jew even recognize Iesus chrestus?

Both of allah and yahweh claims exist only in forged books.

YHWH didn't claim anything of such to the Jews except you can quote me a verse.

Why would the Jews say such a thing?
Do the Jews know Jesus as the Messiah?

Those are questions you should ask Muslims.

Because
1. There is no reason why Jews will say the killed the Messiah
2. The Jews do not even recognize Jesus as Messiah.

The Question then should go to Muslims
1. Is the claim of Allah in the Qur'an true of the sayings of the Jews?
2. Why would the Jews say such a thing?

TenQ:

YHWH didn't claim anything of such to the Jews except you can quote me a verse.

Why would the Jews say such a thing?
Do the Jews know Jesus as the Messiah?

Those are questions you should ask Muslims.

Because
1. There is no reason why Jews will say the killed the Messiah
2. The Jews do not even recognize Jesus as Messiah.

The Question then should go to Muslims
1. Is the claim of Allah in the Qur'an true of the sayings of the Jews?
2. Why would the Jews say such a thing?

Show me where Allah claimed such

Muslims like LegalWolf would rather change the subject of discuss than address the key issue


Allah in the Quran QUOTING the Jews, said that that the Jews boasted that they killed their Messiah who is Jesus, the son of Mary and the Messenger of Allah

Quran 4:157
And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allāh." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Muslims do not understand the gravity of this in the Quran simply because they do NOT know who the MESSIAH is to be. If this is not true, I challenge every Muslim to explain by Islamic literatures the Concept of the Messiah.

Crash Course Summary on the Belief of Jews about the Messiah:
1. The Messiah literally means "the Anointed ONE"
2. There can only be ONE Messiah throughout history
3. The Messiah is a Direct Descendant of king David
4. The Messiah is the ONE to Enforce PEACE and Everlasting Kingdom of God on the whole Earth with Jerusalem as the Capital
5. The Messiah is the physical representative of the presence of God on Earth (Emmanuel)

Summary:
The Messiah is the ONE promised by God to Save and Deliver Israel PERMANENTLY from ALL their enemies
i. It would have been no issue if the Jews boasted that they Killed Jesus, son of Mary as its just one man in a million
ii. It may be accepted if they killed the Messenger of Allah because his message to them is too harsh to them
iii. It would be understandable if Jesus was killed because the Jews didn't know that he was the Messiah


QUESTION:
Holding the Quran to be exact literal words of Allah without errors,
1. Why would the Jews BOAST that they killed their only Messiah and what were they going to gain by killing their Messiah
2. According to Islam, who is "the Messiah"?


Let's hope there'll be some interesting response

Cc:
LegalWolf Vanessa7 AntiChristian Empiree, Rash4ductluv, BabaHeekmat, Haekymbahd, motayoayinde, drlateef, Thatfairguy1, MrCodeSolo , Hisbah21, thatsleepboy1 , Lordmoh , OBALOLA55, x123xlolls , Lukuluku69 , mhmsadyq, Ibsaq , Herkeym001 , Sulasa07 , hakeemhakeem , abduljabbar4 ,olaalekan ,Friend22 , uthlaw , Exc2000 , AbuTwins ,Akhirastriver ,Akinbahm , Sino , KayB , youngdroly , jaggabban , ukeleh , Realismailakabir , Bami8064 Greatgr , Gaskiyamagana Compton11 , Alfarouq , MrCodeSolo Satmaniac saintHot, drlateef, Donkmore

Maynman:


Show me where Allah claimed such

I've shown you time and again


Allah in the Quran QUOTING the Jews, said that that the Jews boasted that they killed their Messiah who is Jesus, the son of Mary and the Messenger of Allah

Quran 4:157
And [for] their (the Jews) saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allāh." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

TenQ:


I've shown you time and again

[/highlight]
Allah in the Quran QUOTING the Jews, said that that the Jews boasted that they killed their Messiah who is Jesus, the son of Mary and the Messenger of Allah

Quran 4:157
And [for] their (the Jews) saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allāh." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Where in that verse mentioned “allah” talking? Did allah write quran?
Is that not the author words?

Maynman:

Where in that verse mentioned “allah” talking? Did allah write quran?
Is that not the author words?

Ask any Muslim

1. Allah dictated the Qur'an to Mohammed through Jubril
2. The Qur'an is the EXACT words of Allah revealed to Mohammed
3. The Qur'an is perfectly preserved to the punctuation mark.

So, the Word of Allah again

Allah in the Quran QUOTING the Jews, said that that the Jews boasted that they killed their Messiah who is Jesus, the son of Mary and the Messenger of Allah

Quran 4:157
And [for] their (the Jews) saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allāh." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

I didn't know you have not much knowledge of Islam

TenQ:

Ask any Muslim

1. Allah dictated the Qur'an to Mohammed through Jubril
2. The Qur'an is the EXACT words of Allah revealed to Mohammed
3. The Qur'an is perfectly preserved to the punctuation mark.

So, the Word of Allah again

Allah in the Quran QUOTING the Jews, said that that the Jews boasted that they killed their Messiah who is Jesus, the son of Mary and the Messenger of Allah

Quran 4:157
And [for] their (the Jews) saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allāh." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Is the bible not the exact words of yahweh, why the forgery, correction and edition?

New Testament is the most doctored and edited document in history.

You should be more concerned about your own forgery.
You have little knowledge on the books you yourself base your life on, remove the log of wood in your eue first!

Maynman:


Is the bible not the exact words of yahweh, why the torgery and edition?

New Testament is the most doctored and edited document in history.

You should be more concerned about your own forgery.

The Bible is NOT the exact words of Yahweh sir!

TenQ:

The Bible is NOT the exact words of Yahweh sir!

Which part is the exact words of yahweh, sir?
Or are they all FORGERY? Who inspired the forgery?

Maynman:


Which part is the exact words of yahweh, sir?
Or are they all FORGERY?

You're the one who forged it?


I am sorry, I'm discussing with one who is completely IGNORANT of the subject of discuss. It's a waste of my time.

Over and Out!

TenQ:

You're the one who forged it?


I am sorry, I'm discussing with one who is completely IGNORANT of the subject of discuss. It's a waste of my time.

Over and Out!

Eusebius the master forger, one of the early church fathers is one of the people that forged it.

I’m not sorry, but you LACK KNOWLEDGE on the books you are basing your life on, why not remove the log of wood in your eye first before talking about another?

TenQ:
[highlight]Muslims like LegalWolf would rather change the subject of discuss than address the key issue

....
Cc:
LegalWolf

LOL! Is changing the subject calling you a future theif, ehn

TenQ:

The Bible is NOT the exact words of Yahweh sir!

Heheheheheh the chicken is coming home to roost We just need you to admit like the other guy that it is a (grossly. inherently and absolutely) imperfect book.

LOL!

LegalWolf:


LOL! Is changing the subject calling you a future theif, ehn

Muslims like LegalWolf would rather change the subject of discuss than address the key issue
I am the Nemesis of Donkeys who carry the books but would neither read nor ask questions not comprehend.


Allah in the Quran QUOTING the Jews, said that that the Jews boasted that they killed their Messiah who is Jesus, the son of Mary and the Messenger of Allah

Quran 4:157
And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allāh." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Muslims do not understand the gravity of this in the Quran simply because they do NOT know who the MESSIAH is to be. If this is not true, I challenge every Muslim to explain by Islamic literatures the Concept of the Messiah.

Crash Course Summary on the Belief of Jews about the Messiah:
1. The Messiah literally means "the Anointed ONE"
2. There can only be ONE Messiah throughout history
3. The Messiah is a Direct Descendant of king David
4. The Messiah is the ONE to Enforce PEACE and Everlasting Kingdom of God on the whole Earth with Jerusalem as the Capital
5. The Messiah is the physical representative of the presence of God on Earth (Emmanuel)

Summary:
The Messiah is the ONE promised by God to Save and Deliver Israel PERMANENTLY from ALL their enemies
i. It would have been no issue if the Jews boasted that they Killed Jesus, son of Mary as its just one man in a million
ii. It may be accepted if they killed the Messenger of Allah because his message to them is too harsh to them
iii. It would be understandable if Jesus was killed because the Jews didn't know that he was the Messiah


QUESTION:
Holding the Quran to be exact literal words of Allah without errors,
1. Why would the Jews BOAST that they killed their only Messiah and what were they going to gain by killing their Messiah
2. According to Islam, who is "the Messiah"?


Let's hope there'll be some interesting response

Cc:
LegalWolf Vanessa7 AntiChristian Empiree, Rash4ductluv, BabaHeekmat, Haekymbahd, motayoayinde, drlateef, Thatfairguy1, MrCodeSolo , Hisbah21, thatsleepboy1 , Lordmoh , OBALOLA55, x123xlolls , Lukuluku69 , mhmsadyq, Ibsaq , Herkeym001 , Sulasa07 , hakeemhakeem , abduljabbar4 ,olaalekan ,Friend22 , uthlaw , Exc2000 , AbuTwins ,Akhirastriver ,Akinbahm , Sino , KayB , youngdroly , jaggabban , ukeleh , Realismailakabir , Bami8064 Greatgr , Gaskiyamagana Compton11 , Alfarouq , MrCodeSolo Satmaniac saintHot, drlateef, Donkmore

LegalWolf:
3 I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They called me God All-Powerful. They did not know my name, the Lord.

What does the underlined mean? I quoted directly from you

Taken in its entirety, the passage clearly reveals that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were aware of Yahweh — God's promised agreement and promise in the Land of Canaan —, even though, as it clearly says in the excerpt you have above, they did not know His name since what they called Him instead was God All-Powerful.

LegalWolf:
....So this pretty much revolves around my thesis. We are certain that EL has always been known as God. We are certain that the name Yhwh is a later invention and that yhwh is a Canaanite god!

Now, let us move on to the second phase of the discussion then. From the much we have learned from the previous discussion,
■we know for certain that the Prophets beginning from Moses through Jesus Christ worshipped YHWH— God's agreement with the people of Israel in the Land of Canaan.
■What we also learned is that the God who gave that agreement, YHWH, to the people of Israel, in fact, made their ancestors — Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob — aware of the agreement even though said ancestors had not been given the name YHWH- God of Israel — with which to worship Him by, bringing us to the next point which is...
■ ... the God whom Abraham worshipped is the same God who gave YHWH — the agreement that was promised to Abraham — to His descendants.

This brings us to something very important which is that since Allah is not the God that gave the promised agreement in the Land of Canaan — YHWH— to Abraham and His descendants, then Allah could not have been the same God that Abraham worshipped. Sure, the word God is a title but that doesn't bestow the same identity and attributes on all that bear it.

Kobojunkie:
Now, let us move on to the second phase of the discussion then. From the much we have learned from the previous discussion,
■we know for certain that the Prophets beginning from Moses through Jesus Christ worshipped YHWH— God's agreement with the people of Israel in the Land of Canaan.
■What we also learned is that the God who gave that agreement, YHWH, to the people of Israel, in fact, made their ancestors — Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob — aware of the agreement even though said ancestors had not been given the name YHWH- God of Israel — with which to worship Him by, bringing us to the next point which is...
■ ... the God whom Abraham worshipped is the same God who gave YHWH — the agreement that was promised to Abraham — to His descendants.

How do we know the underlined, in view of Deut 32: 8 - 9? Apparently, that verse tells us that yhwh and God Almighty are different, isn't it?

This brings us to something very important which is that since Allah is not the God that gave the promised agreement in the Land of Canaan — YHWH— to Abraham and His descendants, then Allah could not have been the same God that Abraham worshipped.

LOL! You need to do a class on logic. How did you arrive at this?

Sure, the word God is a title but that doesn't bestow the same identity and attributes on all that bear it.

LOL! God a Title? That is a polytheistic conception and has no basis in monotheism. Unless you admit that christianity in a polytheistic religion, please let us know how God is a title, who are qualified to assume that Title, can I take on the title Christian God? Are there clear biblical evidence that disqualify me?

cc: Potential thief TenQ

TenQ:

Muslims like LegalWolf would rather change the subject of discuss than address the key issue
I am the Nemesis of Donkeys who carry the books but would neither read nor ask questions not comprehend.


............

LOL! Is changing the subject calling you a future theif, ehn Lawrence Aninih (oh sorry TenQnih )

LegalWolf:
■How do we know the underlined, in view of Deut 32: 8 - 9? Apparently, that verse tells us that yhwh and God Almighty are different, isn't it?
■LOL! You need to do a class on logic. How did you arrive at this?
■LOL! God a Title? That is a polytheistic conception and has no basis in monotheism. Unless you admit that christianity in a polytheistic religion, please let us know how God is a title, who are qualified to assume that Title, can I take on the title Christian God? Are there clear biblical evidence that disqualify me?

1. You don't seem to have been paying attention at all. According to 2 very important passages, we read so far, it was revealed that YHWH is the name associated with the agreement promised by God to Abraham's descendants, was it not?

4. “The Lord is the Rock, and his work is perfect! Yes, all his ways are right! God is true and faithful. He is good and honest.
5 And you are not really his children. You are completely unfaithful to him. You are crooked liars.
6 Is this the way you repay the Lord for all he has done for you? You are stupid, foolish people. He is your Father and your Creator. He made you, and he supports you.
7 “Remember the days of the past. Think about what happened so long ago. Ask your father; he will tell you. Ask your leaders; they will tell you.
8 God Most High separated the people on earth and gave each nation its land. He set up borders for all people. He made as many nations as there are angels.
9 The Lord chose his people to be his own. The people of Jacob belong to him.
10 “The Lord found them in the desert, in an empty, windy land. He surrounded them and watched over them. He protected them like the pupil of his eye,
11 like an eagle when she makes her young leave the nest to fly. She stays close to them, ready to help. She spreads her wings to catch them when they fall and carries them to a safe place.
12 The Lord alone led his people. They had no help from any foreign god. - Deuteronomy 32 vs 4 - 12

YHWH is God's Law in the Kingdom of Israel — the Law of Moses and National Constitution of the Nation of Israel in the Land of Canaan aka God of Israel. That too is what the above passage clearly affirms. The first nation claimed by God in the land of men is the Nation of Israel, and He set YHWH as God over that Nation.

2. Well, commonsense is that if Allah is not in any way associated with the agreement that became YHWH then Allah was not the one who Abraham worshipped, the one who gave him the agreement that eventually became known as YHWH.

3. What the heck! The term God is a title not an actual name of a deity, is it not?

Lol!

Let us bifurcate this point into two so we don’t miss the issue

Kobojunkie:
1. You don't seem to have been paying attention at all. According to 2 very important passages, we read so far, it was revealed that YHWH is the name associated with the agreement promised by God to Abraham's descendants, was it not?
YHWH is God's Law in the Kingdom of Israel — the Law of Moses and National Constitution of the Nation of Israel in the Land of Canaan aka God of Israel. That too is what the above passage clearly affirms. The first nation claimed by God in the land of men is the Nation of Israel, and He set YHWH as God over that Nation.

(emphasis)

You’ve written a lot without saying anything. Only that from the italics, you’ve said exactly what I said. Expressed in simple mathematical terms, God Almighty ≠ Yhwh.

2. Well, commonsense is that if Allah is not in any way associated with the agreement that became YHWH then Allah was not the one who Abraham worshipped, the one who gave him the agreement that eventually became known as YHWH.

Interesting, but we know Abraham worshipped Eloah, isn’t it?

3. What the heck! The term God is a title not an actual name of a deity, is it not?

Lol, in English Language, what is the native name of God that is worshipped by English people?

LegalWolf:
■Lol!Let us bifurcate this point into two so we don’t miss the issue (emphasis) You’ve written a lot without saying anything. Only that from the italics, you’ve said exactly what I said. Expressed in simple mathematical terms, God Almighty ≠ Yhwh.
■Interesting, but we know Abraham worshipped Eloah, isn’t it?
■ Lol, in English Language, what is the native name of God that is worshipped by English people?

1. It seems a lack of comprehension na the major problem here. You are told that God gave an agreement to Abraham, and later on, that agreement was called by God, YHWH. God gave the God of Israel to the Nation of Israel. This isn't rocket science so you making me repeat this over and over ain't gonna change it if your mind is having a hard time.

2. According to the passages we read, Abraham called His God El-Shaddai— God All-Powerful —, and we know that El-Shaddai — God All-Powerful — gave Abraham, then Isaac, and also Jacob, and agreement, which El-Shaddai later handed to the people of Israel calling it YHWH. So, given that YHWH is connected to El-Shaddai of Abraham, Isaac, and of Jacob, it follows that El-Shaddai is not Allah.

3. It doesn't matter since the term God is a title used to reference different entities /deities. The attributes and identity of each of those differ depending on the context in which it is used. So, when I used God in reference to scripture, a layman would understand that to mean the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. When God or preferably Allah is used in connection to Quran, it ain't rocket science that the Muslim deity is the one referenced. God of scripture and Allah do not share the same identity or attributes and as such should not be mistaken as one and the same.

Chrislamjew worship one God - yahweh. The god of religion.

If you agreed that the jews who killed the messiah were Muslims, it means the messiah was a muslim and the gospel was a muslim thing. In your NT it was clear that the jews conspired with the Roman army to murder him. So if you say the muslim jews killed him and those jews were his brothers, this means he is a muslim too. You are wrong here

Isreal has 12 tribes. The 10 tribes known as isreal were given samaria, they were sacked many yrs before christ and replaced with fake ppl - 2 kings 17:1-end. At the time of christ those fake jews were known as samaritans. They mixed with judah the remaining 2 tribes untill judah was later sacked too after they killed the messiah. So the land till today was occupied by impostors whose origin you see in 2 kings 17. Those impostors are not muslims. So muslims are not the ones who killed him. The messiah knew them and always call them names. This was why he sought for the lost sheep - those sent out of the land

The Lord YESHUA, the CHRIST says...

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." - John 10:17-18

Kobojunkie:
Here is what is written in the passage you mentioned...

And this is also what is written in the same book.
If you want to believe from all that is contained in the above passages that the ancestors of the Isrealites where in the dark regarding the identity of YHWH, be my guest!

You christians should stop wasting your time. The secrets of the scriptures is not for you but the hebrews isa 44:7. Ancient Hebrews that wrote the book don't write with vowels. Everthing was in codes. Only those connected (initiates/priests) to them can tell you the true meanings. Impostors gave you the wrong names you use today. Yahweh/jehowah are lesser gods and impostors claiming to be the GOD Almighty. Many names in your bible lord, lord god and many more are codes for lesser gods who control ppl with religion. Their true names are enki, enlil etc. The true one is the GOD OF HEAVEN - jonah 1:9. The truth go shock when it comes. Make una enjoy vatican scripts 4 now