Jokanem:
Did God Create the Devil?

The Bible shows that God did not create the Devil.

Instead, He created the person who became the Devil.

Regarding God, the Bible says: “Perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; righteous and upright is he.” (Deuteronomy 32:3-5)

From that statement, we can conclude that Satan the Devil was at one time perfect and righteous, namely, one of God’s angelic sons.

At John 8:44, Jesus said that the Devil “did not stand fast in the truth,” implying that Satan had at one time been truthful and guiltless.

However, like the rest of Jehovah’s intelligent creatures, the angel who became Satan had the freedom to choose between right and wrong.

By choosing a course in opposition to God and inciting the first human couple to join him, he made himself Satan, which means “Resister.”—Genesis 3:1-5; Revelation 12:9.

God did not create the Devil!
God created Lucifer who became the devil.

Bubu4Sea:
God did not create the Devil!
God created Lucifer who became the devil.

God did create the devil as Jesus Christ explained this in John 8 vs 44. As for Lucifer, there is actually no lucifer character such as the one you lot have been fed from mythology. Instead, there is Jesus Christ who is the brighter morning star as revealed in Revelations 22 vs 16

Kobojunkie:
God did create the devil as Jesus Christ explained this in John 8 vs 44. As for Lucifer, there is actually no lucifer character such as the one you lot have been fed from mythology. Instead, there is Jesus Christ who is the brighter morning star as revealed in Revelations 22 vs 16

No place in John 8:44 does it say God did create the devil

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own:
for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Lucifer was cast out of heaven.

Lucifer is son of the morning
NOT
brighter morning star

Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground,
which didst weaken the nations!

Bubu4Sea:
■ No place in John 8:44 does it say God did create the devil
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
■ Lucifer was cast out of heaven.
Lucifer is son of the morning NOT brighter morning star
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

1. Everything that was created was created by God — there was nothing that was made outside of God— so definitely, God created the devil. Now was He a devil from the beginning or not? As Jesus Christ explained in the verse there, He was the devil from the beginning — there was no point in his existence when he was something else. The part indicated in blue speaks to how at no point in time was truth to be found in the devil indicating that he was always of lies.

2. Isaiah 14 vs 12 is a verse you lifted out of context from a dirge/song sung by God to the King of Babylon.

4 At that time you will begin to sing this song about the king of Babylon:
The king was cruel when he ruled us, but now his rule is finished.
5 The Lord breaks the scepter of evil rulers; he takes away their power.
6 In anger, the king of Babylon beat the people. He never stopped beating them. He was an evil ruler who ruled in anger. He never stopped hurting people.
7 But now, the whole country rests and is quiet. Now the people begin to celebrate.
8 You were an evil king, and now you are finished. Even the pine trees are happy. The cedar trees of Lebanon rejoice.They say, “The king chopped us down, but now the king has fallen, and he will never stand again.”
9 The place of death is excited that you are coming. Sheol is waking the spirits of all the leaders of the earth for you. Sheol is making the kings stand up from their thrones to meet you.
10 They will make fun of you, saying, “Now you are as dead as we are. Now you are just like us.”
11 Your pride has been sent down to Sheol. The music from your harps announces the coming of your proud spirit. Maggots will be the bed you lie on, and other worms will cover your body like a blanket.
12 You were like the morning star, but you have fallen from the sky. In the past, all the nations on earth bowed down before you, but now you have been cut down.
13 You always told yourself, “I will go to the skies above. I will put my throne above God’s stars. I will sit on Zaphon, the holy mountain where the gods meet.
14 I will go up to the altar above the tops of the clouds. I will be like God Most High.”
15 But that did not happen. You were brought down to the deep pit—Sheol, the place of death.
16 People will come to look at your dead body. They will think about you and say, “Is this the same man who caused great fear in all the kingdoms on earth,
17 who destroyed cities and turned the land into a desert, who captured people in war and would not let them go home?”
18 The kings of other nations lie buried with honor, each king with his own grave.
19 But you were thrown out of your grave like a branch cut from a tree and thrown away. You are like a dead man who fell in battle, trampled under the feet of other soldiers. Now you look like any other dead man wrapped in burial cloths.
20 Other kings have their own graves, but you will not join them, because you ruined your own country and killed your own people. So your wicked descendants will be stopped.
21 Prepare to kill his children, because their father is guilty. His children will never take control of the land. They will never fill the world with their cities.
22 The Lord All-Powerful said, “I will stand and fight against those people. I will destroy the famous city, Babylon. I will destroy all the people there. I will destroy their children, their grandchildren, and their great-grandchildren.” The Lord himself said this.
23 “I will change Babylon. It will be a place for animals, not people. It will be a swamp. I will use the ‘broom of destruction’ to sweep Babylon away.” The Lord All-Powerful said this.- Isaiah 14 vs 4 - 23

As clearly indicated in the beginning parts of verse 4, the entire poem which is Isaiah 14 vs 4 - 21 speaks of the King of Babylon who fell from glory by way of his death. Actually, a very lovely poem to read. And at the end of the poem, God goes further to remind the reader of the fact that this message is indeed addressed to Babylon and no others.

Where it concerns scripture, context is king. In the same way, you would not lift a statement out of context to assert a meaning different from that intended by its author, you should also respect context when reading from scripture. That is the only way to in fact gain an understanding of the message contained.

Kobojunkie:
1. Everything that was created was created by God — there was nothing that was made outside of God— so definitely, God created the devil. Now was He a devil from the beginning or not? As Jesus Christ explained in the verse there, He was the devil from the beginning — there was no point in his existence when he was something else. The part indicated in blue speaks to how at no point in time was truth to be found in the devil indicating that he was always of lies.

2. Isaiah 14 vs 12 is a verse you lifted out of context from a dirge/song sung by God to the King of Babylon.
As clearly indicated in the beginning parts of verse 4, the entire poem which is Isaiah 14 vs 4 - 21 speaks of the King of Babylon who fell from glory by way of his death. Actually, a very lovely poem to read. And at the end of the poem, God goes further to remind the reader of the fact that this message is indeed addressed to Babylon and no others.

Where it concerns scripture, context is king. In the same way, you would not lift a statement out of context to assert a meaning different from that intended by its author, you should also respect context when reading from scripture. That is the only way to in fact gain an understanding of the message contained.

You are not reading from the bible, not some book u quote
God clearing created Lucifer, who was perfect.
Then iniquity was found in Lucifer & he was cast out to become Lucifer!

Ezekiel 28
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

leave those funny books & read the bible

GOD CANT CREATE EVIL

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights,
with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Bubu4Sea:
■ You are not reading from the bible, not some book u quote God clearing created Lucifer, who was perfect. Then iniquity was found in Lucifer & he was cast out to become Lucifer!

Ezekiel 28
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

■ leave those funny books & read the bible GOD CANT CREATE EVIL

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

1. In Ezekiel 28, you find two similarly styled dirges/songs sung by the Almighty Himself. The first one was addressed to the King of Tyre by the Almighty.

1 The word of the Lord came to me. He said,
2 “Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, ‘This is what the Lord God says:

“‘You are very proud! And you say, “I am a god! I sit on the seat of gods in the middle of the seas.” “‘But you are a man and not God! You only think you are a god.
3 You think you are wiser than Daniel and no secret is hidden from you.
4 Through your wisdom and understanding you have gotten riches for yourself. And you put gold and silver in your treasuries.
5 Through your great wisdom and trade, you have made your riches grow. And now you are proud because of those riches.
6 “‘So this is what the Lord God says: Tyre, you thought you were like a god.
7 I will bring strangers to fight against you. They are the most terrible among the nations! They will pull out their swords and use them against the beautiful things your wisdom brought you. They will ruin your glory.
8 They will bring you down to the grave. You will be like a sailor who died at sea.
9 That person will kill you. Will you still say, “I am a god”? No, he will have you in his power! You will see that you are a man, not God!
10 Strangers will treat you like a foreigner[c] and kill you, because I gave the command!’” This is what the Lord God said. - Ezekiel 28 vs 1 - 10

A second poem is found right after the first, also addressed to the King of Tyre, an,d in this you find that God also includes imagery that caused ignorant men to attempt to also insert their delusions into His mouth, against His commandment to them.

11 The word of the Lord came to me. He said,
12 “Son of man, sing this sad song about the king of Tyre. Say to him, ‘This is what the Lord God says:
“‘You were the perfect man— so full of wisdom and perfectly handsome.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God. You had every precious stone— rubies, topaz, and diamonds, beryls, onyx, and jasper, sapphires, turquoise, and emeralds. And each of these stones was set in gold. You were given this beauty on the day you were created. God made you strong.
14 You were one of the chosen Cherubs who spread your wings over my throne. I put you on the holy mountain of God. You walked among the jewels that sparkled like fire.
15 You were good and honest when I created you, but then you became evil.
16 Your business brought you many riches. But they also put cruelty inside you, and you sinned. So I treated you like something unclean and threw you off the mountain of God. You were one of the chosen Cherubs who spread your wings over my throne. But I forced you to leave the jewels that sparkled like fire.
17 Your beauty made you proud. Your glory ruined your wisdom. So I threw you down to the ground, and now other kings stare at you.
18 You did many wrong things. You were a very crooked merchant. In this way, you made the holy places unclean. So I brought fire from inside you. It burned you! You burned to ashes on the ground. Now everyone can see your shame.
19 “‘All the people in other nations were shocked about what happened to you. What happened to you will make people very afraid. You are finished!’”- Ezekiel 28 vs 11 - 19

God made clear in His messages/dirges who they are each about and meant for.

2. In Isaiah 45, God proclaimed that He made it all, light and darkness alike

5 I am the Lord, the only God. There is no other God except me. I put your clothes on you, but still you don’t know me.
6 I am doing this so that everyone will know that I am the only God. From the east to the west, people will know that I am the Lord and that there is no other God.
7 I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause trouble. I, the Lord, do all these things. - Isaiah 45 vs 5 - 7

Kobojunkie:
1. In Ezekiel 28, you find two similarly styled dirges/songs sung by the Almighty Himself. The first one was addressed to the King of Tyre by the Almighty.
A second poem is found right after the first, also addressed to the King of Tyre, an,d in this you find that God also includes imagery that caused ignorant men to attempt to also insert their delusions into His mouth, against His commandment to them.
God made clear in His messages/dirges who they are each about and meant for.

2. In Isaiah 45, God proclaimed that He made it all, light and darkness alike

You seem to not know the scriptures at all

Matthew 22:29
Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures

When God calls us sheep, are we sheep or human beings?

When God says He creates darkness,
it means that He will punish for disobedience

Deuteronomy 30:19
that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing:
therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Thats the same when God says He will punish.

You seem to not know God at all.

Bubu4Sea:
■ When God calls us sheep, are we sheep or human beings? When God says He creates darkness,
it means that He will punish for disobedience
■ Deuteronomy 30:19 that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: Thats the same when God says He will punish. You seem to not know God at all.

1. God refers to us as sheep while He is referred to Himself as the good Shepherd in what is known as figurative speak. However, God's proclamation that He created both good and evil is an affirmation of His Truth as the creator of ALL things. Yes, God in fact created all things — good and evil— hence the reason why He even had a tree in the garden of Eden which stored the knowledge of good and evil. If God didn't create it, surely He would not have the knowledge of it under His sovereignty. Or do you instead assume that God is not the only creator and that there is another who created Evil in God's stead — more than one creator?

2. If God is able to punish evil with evil, doesn't that inform your mind that God would need to have power/sovereignty over evil Himself in other that He not be overwhelmed by it as He wields it in punishing those who are evil? And sovereignty belongs to the one who is the creator, does it not?

Allow God to tell you who He is. Stop trying to make Him fit into the preconceived ideas you have of Him in your head. Doing that you create for yourself an idol besides the Almighty Himself.

Kobojunkie:
1. God refers to us as sheep while He is referred to Himself as the good Shepherd in what is known as figurative speak. However, God's proclamation that He created both good and evil is an affirmation of His Truth as the creator of ALL things. Yes, God in fact created all things — good and evil— hence the reason why He even had a tree in the garden of Eden which stored the knowledge of good and evil. If God didn't create it, surely He would not have the knowledge of it under His sovereignty. Or do you instead assume that God is not the only creator and that there is another who created Evil in God's stead — more than one creator?

2. If God is able to punish evil with evil, doesn't that inform your mind that God would need to have power/sovereignty over evil Himself in other that He not be overwhelmed by it as He wields it in punishing those who are evil? And sovereignty belongs to the one who is the creator, does it not?

Allow God to tell you who He is. Stop trying to make Him fit into the preconceived ideas you have of Him in your head. Doing that you create for yourself an idol besides the Almighty Himself.

Oga no vex the truth is simple,
thats why my replies are a few lines

Lies need to convince & obscure the truth.

Your replies are long.

You're a confirmed liar!

As long as you failed to present the origin of Satan who is a spirit being whereas God created intelligent beings in heaven and on earth then Satan must be one of the angels (spirit sons of God) that has fallen!

Techobeys:


Max shut up and sleep. What you’re saying are just in your head. They’re not in the book. I know JW has its own bible, now that you have your own meaning to the bible, you should have your own Jesus by now and your own heaven and create your own people and your own God.

Now that’s it’s established that you don’t have a single bible verse that supports your idea that Satan is an angel, I think my work is done. Lie cannot continue to rule, even on Nairaland, we’ll check the rampage of lies flying around through minds like yours.

If ever you find that one verse in the bible. Do let me know. For now I’m leaving a baseless argument without an iota of fact. Especially now that you’ve made your subjective interpretation of the scriptures absolute. I don’t deal with such people.

To reiterate it, there’s no single verse of the bible that realistically supports your false belief that Satan is an angel. If you find just one, let me now. Bye for now, my work on this thread is done.

Techobeys:

if anyone asks me why I say what I said, I’ll give clear cut analysis of the scripture revealing that Satan is a man.

How come you never mentioned this to me all these while?

So you're scared Max will expose you shey?

Well my guy you're a real disgrace among Bible scholars if you claim to be one!

First of all Adam connotes man and God created man one male (Adam) and one female (Eve) that's why the Bible says:

"And just as it is reserved for men to die once for all time, but after this to receive a judgment" Hebrews 9:27

So all Adam's descendants must die physically {Romans 6:23} since they have all inherited sin from Adam! Romans 5:12

Satan on the other hand has been in existence at least from the garden of Eden since he's the person who used the serpent as puppet to speak to Eve {Revelations 12:9 compare to Genesis 3:1-5} and Satan as a character is living all through mankind's history.

So how come Adamic sin never killed Satan if he is a man?

Why is this same man mentioned thousands of years after Adam's death?

Did God create other humans before Adam?

Techobeys:
. I’m done here. Tired of baseless arguments not based of facts

You are the one that said the devil is a man


Where is he living at the present...

Bubu4Sea:
Oga no vex the truth is simple thats why my replies are a few lines Lies need to convince & obscure the truth. Your replies are long.

I understand well how asking you to use your minds can be conceived by you as asking you to bend down to the devil. You completely abandon the fact that God Himself created that brain and mind in order to allow you to logically reason things out in order to gain an understanding of His being and plan.

Techobeys:


I have studied what you said and I concluded you don’t know what you’re saying. Why do you think I’m certain you and Max and every other person sticking their mouth into this don’t know what you’re saying?

It’s bc I have studied it....

Don't you mind us. Only you know what you are saying because only you have studied it. The rest of us should just shut up and obey Techobeys.

Except for one tiny issue though. I am yet to find where it is written that when Jesus gets to his father in heaven he will "send the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach only Techobeys all things, and bring all things to Techobeys remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto only Techobeys".

Show us where the above is written and in the name of Jesus Christ the Saviour Almighty, every knee must bow to Techobeys.