Razgas:
what is the purchasing power of Rwandans?

Oh, so you're now comparing capital of a Country with Nigerian state capitals. Are you for real?

Abeg, I take my leave from this discourse.

Razgas:
I will develop Centenary City enugu to look like a typical abroad city. It will be a tourist city that igbos will love to visit often. I will build 2 fairly tall buildings...say 20 storeys under PPP. They will be mixed used as hotel and shopping plus offices. I would organise the churches to build at least one gothic-style cathedral for interfaith worship...any economic building gets free land. Roads will be built by the estate developers and we will give them house and street plans to build to avoid random buildingWe as government will build power and water plant under ppp just the Centenary City. Remember it is a marathon..I may not finish within 8 years but we would go so far that after 8 years, The city will be developing on its own even if the next governor discontinued our project.
See if I am Enugu governor, I won't steal one kobo. Just my allowances.

Development are coming to centenary city

The Helium project have started building and they includes all these you mentioned

Razgas:
it is about the look and feel of a city, which attracts tourism and investments. It is not about housing issues. European cities didn't have housing issues when they started building skyscrapers

Rapid increase in economic activity has to be initiated first.

I believe an economic boom proceeds the construction of skyscrapers or else they stay empty. The influx of businesses and investors will require a designated area ( A central business district ) with lettable office spaces in skyscrapers.

Failure2019:


There is Mercedes-Benz shop in Enugu but it's not functional, it just serves as a storage facility for Mercedes Benz


How many people would want to buy Mercedes-Benz from the Mercedes Benz shop than from ndubuisi motor seller where it's cheaper

Original Mercedes tires would set you part 800k to 1.5 million for the pair
Break pad 50k minimum

Battery is 300k minimum


You still think such a shop can compete with emeka ?

AlexBells:

Nobody visits Lagos for tourism I bet you dont know people visit Lagos and Abuja for the money, Enugu is a bigger tourist attraction than Lagos.

Modular Refinery will create more jobs and more beneficial to the economy than skyscrapers still as far as power suply is the question here refineries are self sufficient however you are talking about residential sky scrapers there would be 100s of them here in south east if there's stable electricity.

Tourists visit Lagos far more that they visit Enugu.....for the beaches (Not elegushi ooo, those correct private beaches) vibrant nightlife, Art and culture (Badagry), and recreation (Music and fashion shows).

Give me land in the city center for free. I will build 10 number of 12 storey in a year with all the facilities.

mrvitalis:

Why would a business want to rent a sky scrappers that's expensive when it can rent normal office for 10%

Use u asked. Why most skyscrapers in Lagos is empty ? or why cocoa house is abandoned?

Guy, most skyscrapers in Lagos aren't empty. Your bias against the southwest can't help but stink through.

Thank God the developers of those skyscrapers in Lagos weren't thinking like you, the whole Lagos would have looked underdeveloped.

You better listen to Razgas, free your mind to accept progress and not hate and throw jibes at the southwest while stunting your thought process.

Skyscrapers are beautiful but very expensive to build and maintain,so before you start building it,please make sure that you have a ready sure market for it.

Failure2019:



Northwest filling station in Enugu has a shopping mart and they're doing well more than the average filling station .

I mean the shopping Mart in the filling stations not the filling stations

Greyworld:

Bros you are wise. Like development would have spread to other regions join from the core (Aba)

But someone will say we are too poor to have electric trains or good road or fly overs but not too poor to pay senators 30million monthly.

Calabar was so beautiful attracting tourists and once it died... if that momentum was maintained from Duke to Ayade, you know what that means

Vitalis is my boy. He is the only brilliant boy Stella maris has produced from 2005 till date.

Razgas:
lol my guy your arguments sha. A mixed used skyscraper housing hotels, nightclubs, shopping malls, five-star restaurants, offices can not have a backup generator, but in the same state there are many factories like breweries with 24/7 electricity? Even enugu government house have constant power!
I remember when sullivan turned polo field to shopping mall..I was among those insulting him..now I know better...
My guy, you will know better. Besides I made clear over and over again that the plan was for the next 50 years. Meaning we can now generate power for it and not just for 1 skyscraper but about 10 built together and using one power supply. It is curious that one man -Dangote ..can build billions of dollars worth of plants within 20 years but you are here fighting me on how a state of about 2 million people with the landmass of some powerful European countries can't build 10 skyscrapers in 50 years. Shame on you brother 😕

I understand where you are coming from same way I understand where the other guy is coming from. The truth remains that there are many things far more important than skyscrapers that we should be planning to build in the east.

I have worked in a highrise building in Lagos island before (about 17 floors) and from my experience there, I can confidently tell you that it will be a wrong business decision for any state governor in the east to embark on building skyscrapers. The only reason the company was able to comfortably power the skyscraper was because it was a commercial bank headquarter and banks make money everyday unlike the government in the east. Most of the skyscrapers in Lagos are located on Marina road enroute CMS and most of them are occupied and owned by Nigeria's biggest banks. If you go to Victoria Island, most of skyscrapers there are office spaces for big companies, from Nestoil tower (an oil company) to Microsoft Tower (owned by a tech giant) e.t.c, those skyscrapers can confortably run and manage themselves.

I noticed that you have been comparing cities like Kigali and Doha to Enugu without considering the fact that those cities are the official capital cities of 2 countries funded by the federal government of both countries with all the money generated from taxes and sale of mineral resources compared to Enugu that is just the capital of one random state in Nigeria. The tallest building in the world located in Dubai was built mainly for tourism. The idea was to build something that will attract tourists to UAE even though they will not be able to recover the funds used in building it in over 100 years. That was done because the UAE government knows that they can always fall back on money from crude oil while they wait for the tower to become profitable on the long run.

If Enugu tries this even with private investors, what will the government fallback to to generate income while they wait for the towers to become profitable? How many private investors are willing to wait 50 to 100 years to make profit from their investments?
Where will the government get money to maintain the towers, provide electricity for the air conditioners, elevators, and water distribution system? Even the generators or power plant will also need maintenance. How many people in Enugu are willing to pay 700k to 1.8m per year as house rent? How many supermarket owners in Enugu are willing to pay 1.5m - 2.5m to lease supermarket/shopping space within the building? Do you think Enugu state government will have enough money (after building the towers) for massive advertisment the same way Qatar, UAE, and Rwanda are marketing Doha, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and Kigali? These countries carryout massive and expensive advertisments to promote their cities from sponsoring News on top foreign news channels to sponsoring European football clubs e.t.c. Do you know how much the Rwandan government spends on advertising Rwanda through Arsenal FC? Or do you know how much Qatar spends advertising on Aljazeera, CNN and European football to pull tourists? They even go as far as using their countries' National airlines to promote their cities. Will the Nigerian government offer any of it's assets to promote Enugu?

Instead of Skyscrapers, let us start gradually by moving from our current 3 - 5 storey buildings to 8 or 10 stories. If we can make profit from these in under 15 to 20 years, then we can climb up to 20 stories. Even at 20 stories, they are still not considered skyscrapers. What the east needs now are: a crude oil refinery, a gas refinery, independent power generation plants (at least 2000mw), increase in our transmission capacity, and more local industries so our states can generate more income. With more income and jobs, the standard of living of our people will increase, the education sector will improve, our health sector will improve, waste management will improve, electricity generation and transmission will improve e.t.c. Enugu can be placed in the same list as the big Cities in Europe in different positive indexes.

Rwanda did not become popular due to it's skyline, it became popular due to the growth it achieved within a short period for a country just recovering from a deadly war. Rwanda became one of Africa's most sort after countries after a report was released that Kigali was the cleanest city in Africa and one of the cleanest in the world. Rwanda was also rated in the top 10 happiest countries in the world alongside the best European and North American countries, it was also rated as the best place to do business in Africa and in the top 30 in the world. It was also one of the fastest growing economies in Africa and the world. Rwanda also set itself as a tech hub, attracting tech startups which made global tech news outlets to start coming to Rwanda to see the tech growth taking place in the country. From their local ride hailing services that use eBikes and electric Taxis to their apps used to promote an eco friendly society to banning plastic bags, to the popular local tech company that delivers blood to hospitals using drones e.t.c. These things made Rwanda popular not some random skyscrapers or skyline. Even in UAE, despite all the towers they built, they still needed to go extra because building skyscrapers was just not enough, New York, Hong Kong, Chicago e.t.c were already skyscraper kings so UAE needed to go the extra mile by doing something that was different and they did did that by building the tallest building in the world, the largest botanical garden in the world and some other world record projects.

If after reading this you still feel that skyscrapers are greatly needed at this point despite the challenges we are facing in the east, then I will advice you to start one yourself. Build a skyscraper in Enugu, if you are able to run it without getting broke, other investor will come in and start. Remember the skyscraper kind of building that was built in Umuchu, Anambra State that was supposed to be a hospital? The building has been abandoned and no other investor has come to build another tower there.

ba7man:
Tourists visit Lagos far more that they visit Enugu.....for the beaches (Not elegushi ooo, those correct private beaches) vibrant nightlife, Art and culture (Badagry), and recreation (Music and fashion shows).

Are the beaches not natural attractions that I spoke about earlier, did Lagos build beaches or is the skyscrapers the tourist attractions?

AlexBells:

Are the beaches not natural attractions that I spoke about earlier, did Lagos build beaches or is the skyscrapers the tourist attractions?

Doesn't change the fact that Lagos gets far more tourists than Enugu.

You said it yourself that nobody visits Lagos for tourism compared to Enugu, period....you're now adding weird parameters and shifting the goalpost after I disagreed with points.

Unbiased1:


I understand where you are coming from same way I understand where the other guy is coming from. The truth remains that there are many things far more important than skyscrapers that we should be planning to build in the east.

I have worked in a highrise building in Lagos island before (about 17 floors) and from my experience there, I can confidently tell you that it will be a wrong business decision for any state governor in the east to embark on building skyscrapers. The only reason the company was able to comfortably power the skyscraper was because it was a commercial bank headquarter and banks make money everyday unlike the government in the east. Most of the skyscrapers in Lagos are located on Marina road enroute CMS and most of them are occupied and owned by Nigeria's biggest banks. If you go to Victoria Island, most of skyscrapers there are office spaces for big companies, from Nestoil tower (an oil company) to Microsoft Tower (owned by a tech giant) e.t.c, those skyscrapers can confortably run and manage themselves.

I noticed that you have been comparing cities like Kigali and Doha to Enugu without considering the fact that those cities are the official capital cities of 2 countries funded by the federal government of both countries with all the money generated from taxes and sale of mineral resources compared to Enugu that is just the capital of one random state in Nigeria. The tallest building in the world located in Dubai was built mainly for tourism. The idea was to build something that will attract tourists to UAE even though they will not be able to recover the funds used in building it in over 100 years. That was done because the UAE government knows that they can always fall back on money from crude oil while they wait for the tower to become profitable on the long run.

If Enugu tries this even with private investors, what will the government fallback to to generate income while they wait for the towers to become profitable? How many private investors are willing to wait 50 to 100 years to make profit from their investments?
Where will the government get money to maintain the towers, provide electricity for the air conditioners, elevators, and water distribution system? Even the generators or power plant will also need maintenance. How many people in Enugu are willing to pay 700k to 1.8m per year as house rent? How many supermarket owners in Enugu are willing to pay 1.5m - 2.5m to lease supermarket/shopping space within the building? Do you think Enugu state government will have enough money (after building the towers) for massive advertisment the same way Qatar, UAE, and Rwanda are marketing Doha, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and Kigali? These countries carryout massive and expensive advertisments to promote their cities from sponsoring News on top foreign news channels to sponsoring European football clubs e.t.c. Do you know how much the Rwandan government spends on advertising Rwanda through Arsenal FC? Or do you know how much Qatar spends advertising on Aljazeera, CNN and European football to pull tourists? They even go as far as using their countries' National airlines to promote their cities. Will the Nigerian government offer any of it's assets to promote Enugu?

Instead of Skyscrapers, let us start gradually by moving from our current 3 - 5 storey buildings to 8 or 10 stories. If we can make profit from these in under 15 to 20 years, then we can climb up to 20 stories. Even at 20 stories, they are still not considered skyscrapers. What the east needs now are: a crude oil refinery, a gas refinery, independent power generation plants (at least 2000mw), increase in our transmission capacity, and more local industries so our states can generate more income. With more income and jobs, the standard of living of our people will increase, the education sector will improve, our health sector will improve, waste management will improve, electricity generation and transmission will improve e.t.c. Enugu can be placed in the same list as the big Cities in Europe in different positive indexes.

Rwanda did not become popular due to it's skyline, it became popular due to the growth it achieved within a short period for a country just recovering from a deadly war. Rwanda became one of Africa's most sort after countries after a report was released that Kigali was the cleanest city in Africa and one of the cleanest in the world. Rwanda was also rated in the top 10 happiest countries in the world alongside the best European and North American countries, it was also rated as the best place to do business in Africa and in the top 30 in the world. It was also one of the fastest growing economies in Africa and the world. Rwanda also set itself as a tech hub, attracting tech startups which made global tech news outlets to start coming to Rwanda to see the tech growth taking place in the country. From their local ride hailing services that use eBikes and electric Taxis to their apps used to promote an eco friendly society to banning plastic bags, to the popular local tech company that delivers blood to hospitals using drones e.t.c. These things made Rwanda popular not some random skyscrapers or skyline. Even in UAE, despite all the towers they built, they still needed to go extra because building skyscrapers was just not enough, New York, Hong Kong, Chicago e.t.c were already skyscraper kings so UAE needed to go the extra mile by doing something that was different and they did did that by building the tallest building in the world, the largest botanical garden in the world and some other world record projects.

If after reading this you still feel that skyscrapers are greatly needed at this point despite the challenges we are facing in the east, then I will advice you to start one yourself. Build a skyscraper in Enugu, if you are able to run it without getting broke, other investor will come in and start. Remember the skyscraper kind of building that was built in Umuchu, Anambra State that was supposed to be a hospital? The building has been abandoned and no other investor has come to build another tower there.

building an appealing city center in Nigerian states would look like nuclear physics to people who don't know how white people do it. And of course it usually is impossible until it is done...in this case, not overnight but over many many many years (if we start today). I won't argue further because arguing this is like trying to convince abokî to leave Islam and become atheist....he will stab you immediately because in his next 10 lives he can't see beyond kettle and prayer mat

ba7man:
Doesn't change the fact that Lagos gets far more tourists than Enugu.

You said it yourself that nobody visits Lagos for tourism compared to Enugu, period....you're now adding weird parameters and shifting the goalpost after I disagreed with points.

even in that parameters, what makes you think Lagos gets more tourist than Enugu, don't even mistake recreation for tourism, ofcourse recreational activities bar beach may see more people however don't forget Enugu is also destination for hikers, including lake network and more that are tourist attractions

Razgas:
Now to the purpose of this thread. Let's say every Enugu governor builds two skyscrapers at the New Enugu Centenary City every 8 years, Enugu will have 10 skyscrapers in 40 years.

The photo here shows The Cocoa house built by Awolowo in 1960s in Ibadan. Do you see how it elevates Ibadan? Now imagine that there are 9 more Cocoa houses built over the years by successive Ibadan governments. Do you now see how Ibadan would have looked?

Invite more big businesses to Oyo state and the skyscrapers will spring up. Government doesn't have to build them.

Guestlander:


Invite more big businesses to Oyo state and the skyscrapers will spring up. Government doesn't have to build them.

skyscrapers tend to attract big businesses. That's my point

AlexBells:
even in that parameters, what makes you think Lagos gets more tourist than Enugu, don't even mistake recreation for tourism, ofcourse recreational activities bar beach may see more people however don't forget Enugu is also destination for hikers, including lake network and more that are tourist attractions

lol...argument

AlexBells:
even in that parameters, what makes you think Lagos gets more tourist than Enugu, don't even mistake recreation for tourism, ofcourse recreational activities bar beach may see more people however don't forget Enugu is also destination for hikers, including lake network and more that are tourist attractions

Please dead this your argument.

Enugu isn't comparable with Lagos in terms of Recreation, Tourism, business.

mrvitalis:

Why would a business want to rent a sky scrappers that's expensive when it can rent normal office for 10%

Use u asked. Why most skyscrapers in Lagos is empty ? or why cocoa house is abandoned?

Most Skyscrapers in Lagos are occupied. Cocoa House is fully occupied by Broadcasting Stations, Telecoms Coys, different firms and it's never abandoned except during renovations.

Razgas:
government can build skyscrapers. I have lived in multiple countries and I know a few of the skyscrapers under construction being built by government. In Qatar, in Singapore.
Government can also contribute land alone while real estate companies build the skyscrapers.
What is the benefit of skyscrapers you ask?
What is the benefit of the alternative? In what way has the rag structures popping up in our cities benefited us?
You and I know that skyscrapers are used to make statements of the intention of a city. Even the small development Sullivan chime brought to Enugu with road construction, i know how thousands of people from neighbouring states relocated to Enugu. No need to argue this. No major city in the world doesn't have a skyline.

You're right.

Skyline is very important.

Go to the USA. Even the smallest city there makes sure they have a skyline, no matter how modest.

It shows seriousness in terms of business and economic activities.

In today's world, image is everything.

You have to look the part.

Every Nigerian city worth its salt should be looking to develop an attractive skyline in its central business district (CBD).

If every city builds a minimum one high rise a year, in 10 years time, everywhere will look like yanki.

It's not hard, and we have the money.

Razgas:
if Aba was left to the whites with the same resources, it would look like Durban of South Africa today. Our leaders don't have foresight beyond dumb politics and 'empowerment '

This is the reason I keep saying that we (Nigerians) would have allow britain to collonised us till around 1990, Nigeria would have been better of by now.

Razgas:
lol...people like you are the reason Nigeria has made zero progress in 60 years. Nay sayers with zero practical alternative. I remember how you were insulting igbos here in 2015 because of Buhari. Nobody could call you to order. Now you run around insulting yorubas because of the same buhari. Zero direction.
Now let me explain the poverty circle to you. It starts with you telling yourself you are too poor to save. And because you don't have savings, you can't invest and because you can't invest, you make no extra income and the circle completes with you remaining poor.
In this case, we won't be able to build skyscrapers that could be used as offices and residences of modern, urban igbo youths who have lived abroad and have who have become used to a certain European lifestyle and who can bring in capital and expertise in our state because we are too busy paying an overbloated civil service with our little income. In turn this igbo youths take their investment to cities like Abuja and lagos and go there to build the same skyscrapers you don't want in the east and you go to their instagram page to insult them for abandoning igboland and igboland remains poor and unable to build these skyscrapers. Meanwhile many skyscrapers in Eko Atlantic are owned by Igbos

Show proof that many skyscrapersbin Eko Atlantic are owned by Igbos. I'll wait.

MrBlock:


Show proof that many skyscrapersbin Eko Atlantic are owned by Igbos. I'll wait.

I know Obijackson owns this one.
I also know the UBA and Zenith headquarters are Igbo owned

Razgas:
I know Obijackson owns this one.
I also know the UBA and Zenith headquarters are Igbo owned

These are not in Eko Atlantic.

I repeat, show me 1 skyscraper that is Igbo built in Eko Atlantic. That is the claim I want to validate.

ba7man:
Please dead this your argument.

Enugu isn't comparable with Lagos in terms of Recreation, Tourism, business.

I think the issue here is not understanding the argument from the beginning, no one is challenging the fact that Lagos is bigger than Enugu in several ways but not that Lagos is bigger than Enugu in every other way.

You have to understand the distinction between tourism, recreation and business. Tourism is ussually paired with culture while recreation is paired with sports. I'm just saying that Lagos while being a business hotspot is also a recreational hotspot however may not be a tourist hotspot.

Business men and women try to find a recreation after a day or week days of work however tourist visit places with an entirely different intent. Tourist attraction like Obudu castle ranch isn't the same with the Recreational attractions like bar beach meanwhile the purpose of the argument is whether Lagos sky scrapers are a tourist attraction and I don't think so.

Lagos is not a calm accessible city for tourism I bet people interested in Yorubas culture as tourist would visit Ile Ife or Ibadan that's if I'm touring Yoruba land I would rather visit those places than visit Lagos however for recreation like night life and entertainment I would visit Lagos, that's the distinction you need to understand. Lagos is bigger than Enugu for entertainment, business, recreation and in many other ways however Lagos don't fall under the category of tourist attraction.

Razgas:
government can build skyscrapers. I have lived in multiple countries and I know a few of the skyscrapers under construction being built by government. In Qatar, in Singapore.
Government can also contribute land alone while real estate companies build the skyscrapers.
What is the benefit of skyscrapers you ask?
What is the benefit of the alternative? In what way has the rag structures popping up in our cities benefited us?
You and I know that skyscrapers are used to make statements of the intention of a city. Even the small development Sullivan chime brought to Enugu with road construction, i know how thousands of people from neighbouring states relocated to Enugu. No need to argue this. No major city in the world doesn't have a skyline.

I am 100% with you, infact with skyscrapers we can open Africa trade center.