TenQ:

The earliest hadiths are worse, I've read a few some long time ago. I prefer to use ONLY accepted hadiths as my source, thus, I comply with your wish.

You Muslims rejected the earliest hadiths. Many of the earlier Sira and Tareekh are not even translated into English language. Modern Muslim scholars said they only accept the hadiths complied by Imam Bukhari, Muslim, An-Nasa'i, Abi Dawud, at-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah

Now, we were forced to use only hadiths within your selection only for us to hear that the Hadiths are in grades of Sahih, Hassan, Daif and Mawdu. Unfortunately, if I get you rightly, you even totally reject ALL of them.

For us who are non muslims, these books give us a great insight into Islam beyond your preferred Narrative.

Even if you reject them as theological sources, it is still useful as a historical source

You are not getting my point. What I meant by "As most of the Hadith in the earliest collections stopped at the companions or contain the opinions of the companions on certain issues. But in the later collections all of a sudden the words were said to have come from the prophet" is in the earliest collections where you have an hadith that reported that a certain companion X said that ABC is 123. The same Hadith will be reported in the later collections like this a certain companion X said that he heard his father said that the prophet said that ABC is 123. How did the later collector of Hadith arrived at inserting the prophet name where the earliest collector didn't? This is the question nobody is asking. This is the question they the user of such sources don't want being asked. Obviously someone had to add the name of the prophet to give whatever concoctions he is selling some form of authority. This is what they called Hadith. This is what they call science. From which the tafsir, Fiqh and all other sources were derived. So this is what my reply is all about.

1. As to how long a Muslim will spend or take to pass by hell I can't say I know though it more likely wouldn't be the same for everyone. Furthermore how do you come up with the notion of Muslims being replaced by Christians in hell?

Interestingly looking at another translation stating
And there is not one of you but he will pass it on. Your Lord has a certainty.
Perhaps there's a need to review the translations in more detail.

TenQ:

I read everything that was why I noted that but later removed
1. How long do you think Muslims will spend in Hell before they are replaced with Christians? Does it even make sense?

2. Is there any other prophet of God who preached this kind of doctrine?

Be warned :
Once a person enters Hell, there is no coming out o!

Jesus said, we should do everything NOT to enter Hell because there is no coming out of it o!

Mat 5:29:
"And if your right eye offend you, pluck it out, and cast it from you: for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish, and not that your whole body should be cast into hell."

honesttalk21:
Good day. Trust you had a good rest.
Let's start with Joida. In the book of Nehemiah 12:10 we read Joshua was the father of Joiakim, Joiakim the father of Eliashib, Eliashib the father of Joiada,
11 Joiada the father of Jonathan, and Jonathan the father of Jaddua.

Then a look into the story of Joachim, his wife Anne (or Anna), and the miraculous birth of their child Mary, the mother of Jesus, was told for the first time in the 2nd-century apocryphal infancy-gospel the Gospel of James

I will accept the stories are not piecing together simply.

Of course the story cannot piece together because Joachim was the great grandson of David and he was the king of Judah AND there was at least 1200 years between Joachim and Mary.

honesttalk21:

Of course I know Elizabeth is the mother of John the Baptist. She is the wife of Zakaria.
Zakaria is an uncle to Mary.

He is mentioned in the Quran as the father of John the Baptist and the one to whom Mary was given to care for in infancy.

3:37) Thereupon her Lord graciously accepted Mary and vouchsafed to her a goodly growth and placed her in the care of Zechariah. Whenever Zakariya visited her in the sanctuary, he found her provided with food. He asked her: 'O Mary, how did this come to you?' She said: 'It is from Allah. Allah provides sustenance to whom He wills beyond all reckoning.'
(3:38) Then Zakarya prayed to his Lord: 'O Lord! Grant me from Yourself out of Your grace the gift of a goodly offspring, for indeed You alone heed all Prayers.
(3:39) As he stood praying in the sanctuary, the angels called out to him: 'Allah gives you good tidings of John (Yahya),who shall confirm a command of Allah , shall be outstanding among men, utterly chaste, and a Prophet from among the righteous.'

Unfortunately, this still doesn't explain how Mary is the sister of Aaron and the Daughter of Imran. Do you think Christians mixed up their history?

The person who wrote this in the Qur'an is not knowledgeable about the history of Mary.

On being the daughter of Imran I believe we have had a discussion on this on one of your other threads where you challenged me to present another person addressed by the name of his ancestor.
It is interesting to note where you too applied this principle in addressing Jesus as a son of King David.

Be that as it may does the Bible refer to the parents of Mary explicitly? I seem to be jumbling the Heli, Nathan connection but did I to mention her mother?

TenQ:

Of course the story cannot piece together because Joachim was the great grandson of David and he was the king of Judah AND there was at least 1200 years between Joachim and Mary.



Unfortunately, this still doesn't explain how Mary is the sister of Aaron and the Daughter of Imran. Do you think Christians mixed up their history?

The person who wrote this in the Qur'an is not knowledgeable about the history of Mary.

honesttalk21:
1. As to how long a Muslim will spend or take to pass by hell I can't say I know though it more likely wouldn't be the same for everyone. Furthermore how do you come up with the notion of Muslims being replaced by Christians in hell?

My concern is that Jesus did not give an impression that the punishment of hell is temporary.
What if your entering hell is indefinite?


Here is your hadith that says Christians and Jews would be made a ransome for you Muslims in hell.

Riyad as-Salihin 432
Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Messenger of Allah said, "On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will deliver to every Muslim, a Jew or a Christian and say: This is your ransom from Hell-fire."'
Another narration is: Messenger of Allah said, "There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with sins as heavy as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them".



Would you agree that only people who are not currently in hell can be used as a ransome for another person!?

honesttalk21:
On being the daughter of Imran I believe we have had a discussion on this on one of your other threads where you challenged me to present another person addressed by the name of his ancestor.
It is interesting to note where you too applied this principle in addressing Jesus as a son of King David.

Be that as it may does the Bible refer to the parents of Mary explicitly? I seem to be jumbling the Heli, Nathan connection but did I to mention her mother?

The Messiah is referred to as the Son of David because he is a direct Descendant of David.

Mat 22:42-45:
"Saying, What think you of Christ? whose son is he? They say to him, The son of David. He said to them, How then does David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit you on my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?"

Unfortunately, Mary is from the Tribe of Judah which is the Tribe of David.
Imran, Moses, Aaron are from the tribe of Levi which has disappeared from existence because of their conquest by the Assyrians.

Therefore, it is IMPOSSIBLE that Mary be remotely the Daughter of Imran.

Hence, you need to explain how the obvious history of Mary became complicated in the Qur'an except the writer wasn't familiar with history.

honesttalk21:
1. As to how long a Muslim will spend or take to pass by hell I can't say I know though it more likely wouldn't be the same for everyone. Furthermore how do you come up with the notion of Muslims being replaced by Christians in hell?

Interestingly looking at another translation stating
And there is not one of you but he will pass it on. Your Lord has a certainty.
Perhaps there's a need to review the translations in more detail.

There are translations that attempt to mistranslate the meaning of the Arabic of the Qur'an


Qur'an 19:71
"وَمَا مِنكُم مِّنْ أَحَدٍ إِلَّا سَيَمُرُّهَا ۚ ذَٰلِكَ عَلَىٰ رَبِّكَ يَسِيرٌ"
Verse 72 betray any counter argument

Quran 19:72 -
Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees."

1. The word THEN (means "After that.." ).
Do you think it means After Muslims have passed over hell or passed by hell? Or after Muslims are in Hell


2. If Muslims will pass over the fire, why does verse 72 say:
Then we will save those who fear Allah!
Allah will Save them from what?

3. Don't you think that anyone who has passed over hell or passed by hell is ALREADY saved and doesn't need further saving?

4. Leaving the Unbelievers AFTER Allah has removed you Muslims is the last straw that nails this.


Muslims will ALL without exception enter the Fire of Hell at least for a Duration.
What if this was A GRAND deception and the Duration become ETERNITY!

satmaniac:


You are not getting my point. What I meant by "As most of the Hadith in the earliest collections stopped at the companions or contain the opinions of the companions on certain issues. But in the later collections all of a sudden the words were said to have come from the prophet" is in the earliest collections where you have an hadith that reported that a certain companion X said that ABC is 123. The same Hadith will be reported in the later collections like this a certain companion X said that he heard his father said that the prophet said that ABC is 123. How did the later collector of Hadith arrived at inserting the prophet name where the earliest collector didn't? This is the question nobody is asking. This is the question they the user of such sources don't want being asked. Obviously someone had to add the name of the prophet to give whatever concoctions he is selling some form of authority. This is what they called Hadith. This is what they call science. From which the tafsir, Fiqh and all other sources were derived. So this is what my reply is all about.

You will agree with me that far much more knowledgeable Muslim scholars have noticed this problem that not all hadiths can be trusted, therefore they made stringent rules with respect to trusted chains of narrators to grade every hadiths as
Sahih
Hassan
Daif
Mawdu

Muslim Clerics say that the fact that a Hadith is graded Daif doesn't mean it is false. It just mean that the chain of narration isn't strong.

But I think your argument should be applicable to the Qur'an too. Why should we trust the RECITATION of Hafs when we have written Qur'an dating far back in time.

Secondly, if the hadiths should all be discarded because of Trust issues, it proves that Muslims generally are UNTRUSTWORTHY bunch of LIARS!
If Muslims can lie this much, how can we trust their Qur'an?

You say Muslims will ALL without exception enter the Fire of Hell at least for a Duration

Is this expressly stated and where?

Going by the differing translations can we consider some will pass by and some will enter? Then perhaps for those who enter they are later saved as those that passed by?

TenQ:

There are translations that attempt to mistranslate the meaning of the Arabic of the Qur'an


Qur'an 19:71
"وَمَا مِنكُم مِّنْ أَحَدٍ إِلَّا سَيَمُرُّهَا ۚ ذَٰلِكَ عَلَىٰ رَبِّكَ يَسِيرٌ"
Verse 72 betray any counter argument

Quran 19:72 -
Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees."

1. The word THEN (means "After that.." ).
Do you think it means After Muslims have passed over hell or passed by hell? Or after Muslims are in Hell


2. If Muslims will pass over the fire, why does verse 72 say:
Then we will save those who fear Allah!
Allah will Save them from what?

3. Don't you think that anyone who has passed over hell or passed by hell is ALREADY saved and doesn't need further saving?

4. Leaving the Unbelievers AFTER Allah has removed you Muslims is the last straw that nails this.


Muslims will ALL without exception enter the Fire of Hell at least for a Duration.
What if this was A GRAND deception and the Duration become ETERNITY!

Could you point me to where David says The LORD said to my Lord, Sit you on my right hand that questioning Pharisees or ancestors witnessed and refer to?

I had read Elizabeth was actually Mary’s aunt, sister of Anna, Mary’s mother. Joida, High Priest of Aaron, was father of Elizabeth and Anna, and thus grandfather of Jesus and of John the Baptist. from this link and have not made satisfactory progress in establishing the link.

https://www.dailypress.com/1998/04/11/jesus-had-love-support-of-a-closely-knit-family/#:~:text=Close%20family%20ties%20were%20well,sister%20of%20Anna%2C%20Mary's%20mother.

Do you also say there weren't intermarital relations between the tribes?

TenQ:

The Messiah is referred to as the Son of David because he is a direct Descendant of David.

Mat 22:42-45:
"Saying, What think you of Christ? whose son is he? They say to him, The son of David. He said to them, How then does David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit you on my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?"

Unfortunately, Mary is from the Tribe of Judah which is the Tribe of David.
Imran, Moses, Aaron are from the tribe of Levi which has disappeared from existence because of their conquest by the Assyrians.

Therefore, it is IMPOSSIBLE that Mary be remotely the Daughter of Imran.

Hence, you need to explain how the obvious history of Mary became complicated in the Qur'an except the writer wasn't familiar with history.

How do you compare what you write from Abu Musa Al-Ashari in comparison to:

Surah 57:15, This Day shall no ransom be accepted of you, nor of those who rejected Allah.’ Your abode is the Fire: that is the proper place to claim you: and an evil refuge it is
See also 3:91,5:36 and 39:47.

TenQ:

My concern is that Jesus did not give an impression that the punishment of hell is temporary.
What if your entering hell is indefinite?


Here is your hadith that says Christians and Jews would be made a ransome for you Muslims in hell.

Riyad as-Salihin 432
Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Messenger of Allah said, "On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will deliver to every Muslim, a Jew or a Christian and say: This is your ransom from Hell-fire."'
Another narration is: Messenger of Allah said, "There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with sins as heavy as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them".



Would you agree that only people who are not currently in hell can be used as a ransome for another person!?

Well can we agree that Zakaria was a Prophet and the guardian of Mary? Would this verify that she worked/lived in the temple?

Then Luke 1:36 And behold, your kinswoman Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.

The word translated from Greek says suggenes (συγγενής) meaning of the same kin, akin to, related by blood

TenQ:


Unfortunately, this still doesn't explain how Mary is the sister of Aaron and the Daughter of Imran. Do you think Christians mixed up their history?

The person who wrote this in the Qur'an is not knowledgeable about the history of Mary.

honesttalk21:
Well can we agree that Zakaria was a Prophet and the guardian of Mary? Would this verify that she worked/lived in the temple?

Then Luke 1:36 And behold, your kinswoman Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.

The word translated from Greek says suggenes (συγγενής) meaning of the same kin, akin to, related by blood

1. Zachariah is not a prophet, he was a priest.
There were hundreds of priests in Jerusalem.
2. There is no residential quarters in the temple not even for the High Priest. The temple consist of three concentric walls of the outer space, the Holy space and the Holy of holy place.
The High priest enter the Holy of Holy Place just once in a Year
Women are not even permitted in the Holy place.
The Outer space or Common place is the area allowed for everyone including women for sacrifices
3. Men did the Work of Cleaning and maintaining the Temple sir. Women aren't allowed in the temple.

If you had asked the Christians according to the Qur'an, you wouldn't have made these errors.

Elizabeth and Mary are Cousins!

honesttalk21:
How do you compare what you write from Abu Musa Al-Ashari in comparison to:

Surah 57:15, This Day shall no ransom be accepted of you, nor of those who rejected Allah.’ Your abode is the Fire: that is the proper place to claim you: and an evil refuge it is
See also 3:91,5:36 and 39:47.

Your Quran is speaking about those who reject Allah (certainly not Muslims) who will have no ransom accepted from them.
And it makes sense doesn't it that Jews and Christians INSTEAD would be used as Ransom for Muslims


Riyad as-Salihin 432
Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Messenger of Allah said, "On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will deliver to every Muslim, a Jew or a Christian and say: This is your ransom from Hell-fire."'
Another narration is: Messenger of Allah said, "There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with sins as heavy as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them".


Very well still on track: Allah will replace Muslims in Hell with Jews and Christians :
1. Does it make sense to you?
2. Why would Allah do that since he was the once that created Christianity?
3. What is the Offence of the Jews?

You seem not to understand that no ransom will be accepted which totally disagrees with the what you share from Al-Ashari

The Quran doesn't say anything about accepting a ransom or replacing Muslims with Christians in hell

honesttalk21:
You say Muslims will ALL without exception enter the Fire of Hell at least for a Duration

Is this expressly stated and where?

Going by the differing translations can we consider some will pass by and some will enter? Then perhaps for those who enter they are later saved as those that passed by?

Yes: this is expressly stated in the Qur'an by Allah

Qur'an 19:71
"وَمَا مِنكُم مِّنْ أَحَدٍ إِلَّا سَيَمُرُّهَا ۚ ذَٰلِكَ عَلَىٰ رَبِّكَ يَسِيرٌ"

Was ma minkum min ahadin illa sayamurruhā...

I am sorry to say my brother : this was one of those verses that opened my eyes to study Islam properly without bias.

Don't go by the translation (as Muslim translators think it is halal to twist the Qur'an to make it say nicer things) : go by the Arabic!

Every Muslim according to Allah will FIRST enter the Fire of Hell before Allah will now accept their ransome

honesttalk21:
You seem not to understand that no ransom will be accepted which totally disagrees with the what you share from Al-Ashari

It says no ransom would be accepted from those who REJECT Allah!

This means that Ransom would be accepted from Muslims but not Christians, Jews or Idolaters!

It is simple now

honesttalk21:
Could you point me to where David says The LORD said to my Lord, Sit you on my right hand that questioning Pharisees or ancestors witnessed and refer to?

A Psalm of David.
Ps 110:1:
"The LORD said to my Lord, Sit you at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool."


Jesus then asked, how could the Messiah be the Son of David and David calls Him Lord.!

honesttalk21:

I had read Elizabeth was actually Mary’s aunt, sister of Anna, Mary’s mother. Joida, High Priest of Aaron, was father of Elizabeth and Anna, and thus grandfather of Jesus and of John the Baptist. from this link and have not made satisfactory progress in establishing the link.

https://www.dailypress.com/1998/04/11/jesus-had-love-support-of-a-closely-knit-family/#:~:text=Close%20family%20ties%20were%20well,sister%20of%20Anna%2C%20Mary's%20mother.

Wrong.
Anna and Mary have NOTHING in relation to each other. Anna was a childless widow and a prophetess.

honesttalk21:

Do you also say there weren't intermarital relations between the tribes?

There were inter-tribal marriages in Israel only that
At the time of Jesus, of the twelf tribes of Isreal, only two remain. The other ten tribes (who lived in the Northern Israel) were taken into slavery by the Assyrians 722 years before Jesus.

The only tribes remaining at the time of Jesus was Judah (tribe of David) and Benjamin.

إِلَّا Translates to but
However I don't have what you typed as I have
وَإِنْ مِنْكُمْ إِلَّا وَارِدُهَا ۚ كَانَ عَلَىٰ رَبِّكَ حَتْمًا مَقْضِيًّا
وَإِن مِّنكُمۡ إِلَّا وَارِدُهَا ۚ كَانَ عَلَىٰ رَبِّكَ حَتۡمًا مَّقۡضِيًّا

وَارِدُهَا translates to take it however in both the word for word and al-hilali meaning of verse translations I find this as passing over it.

Paused to recheck where وَإِنْ became وَمَا or maybe you are reading from another variant.
Is that why you have a smiley?

TenQ:

Yes: this is expressly stated in the Qur'an by Allah

Qur'an 19:71
"وَمَا مِنكُم مِّنْ أَحَدٍ إِلَّا سَيَمُرُّهَا ۚ ذَٰلِكَ عَلَىٰ رَبِّكَ يَسِيرٌ"} [Surat Maryam 71]
Was ma minkum min ahadin illa sayamurruhā...

I am sorry to say my brother : this was one of those verses that opened my eyes to study Islam properly without bias.

Don't go by the translation (as Muslim translators think it is halal to twist the Qur'an to make it say nicer things) : go by the Arabic!

Every Muslim according to Allah will FIRST enter the Fire of Hell before Allah will now accept their ransome

honesttalk21:

Its painful when understood that ALL Muslims will first enter the Fire before Allah ransoms them with Christians and Jews.


What is so special with Christians and Jews that Allah seems to hate us this much?

You probably are pained due to what you may have come across however in Quran 5:82
ۖ وَلَتَجِدَنَّ أَقْرَبَهُمْ مَوَدَّةً لِلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّا نَصَارَىٰ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ مِنْهُمْ قِسِّيسِينَ وَرُهْبَانًا وَأَنَّهُمْ لَا يَسْتَكْبِرُونَ
And you will certainly find that the people most hostile against the believers are the Jews and the ones who ascribe partners to Allah. You will certainly find that the closest of them in friendship with the believers are those who say, “We are Christians.”That is because among them there are priests and monks, and because they are not arrogant.

And 2:62
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالنَّصَارَىٰ وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ
Indeed, those who believe, and those who are Jews, Christians, and Sabians. Whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does righteousness, they will have their reward with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor do they grieve

Allah himself knows who truly worships him with sincerity. It is not a case of who is seen to be righteous in the eyes of man

Pardon me if I find this a bit amusing so you conclude that ransom will be accepted from Muslims?

TenQ:

It says no ransom would be accepted from those who REJECT Allah!

This means that Ransom would be accepted from Muslims but not Christians, Jews or Idolaters!

It is simple now

Islam recognizes Zakaria as a prophet and it seems there are narrations of 2 of them in the Bible. Howbeit in the book of Ezekiel 45
1.When you allot the land as an inheritance, you are to present to the Lord a portion of the land as a sacred district, 25,000 cubits long and 20,000 cubits wide; the entire area will be holy.
2 Of this, a section 500 cubits square is to be for the sanctuary, with 50 cubits around it for open land.
3 In the sacred district, measure off a section 25,000 cubits long and 10,000 cubits wide. In it will be the sanctuary, the Most Holy Place.
4 It will be the sacred portion of the land for the priests, who minister in the sanctuary and who draw near to minister before the Lord. It will be a place for their houses as well as a holy place for the sanctuary.

Women not being permitted explains why Mary's mother preferred a boy child.

Permit my including the views of the role religion has played in patriarchy.

Going on, according to Jewish religious law, women were allowed in every area of the Temple precincts in which men were allowed. The Mishnah specifies areas within the Temple that non-priests were not allowed to enter, but it does not differentiate between men and women.

More so Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the LORD, as it is written in the LORD’s Torah: “Every first-born male is sanctified to the LORD as stated in Luke 2:22-23

TenQ:

1. Zachariah is not a prophet, he was a priest.
There were hundreds of priests in Jerusalem.
2. There is no residential quarters in the temple not even for the High Priest. The temple consist of three concentric walls of the outer space, the Holy space and the Holy of holy place.
The High priest enter the Holy of Holy Place just once in a Year
Women are not even permitted in the Holy place.
The Outer space or Common place is the area allowed for everyone including women for sacrifices
3. Men did the Work of Cleaning and maintaining the Temple sir. Women aren't allowed in the temple.

If you had asked the Christians according to the Qur'an, you wouldn't have made these errors.

Elizabeth and Mary are Cousins!

Accepting that Anna was barring, do you however identify who her husband was?

Could you tell me who is documented as the mother of Mary?

Then about Psalm 110:1 may be subject for review. This is to understand how the old testament son of man is referred to as either Adonai or Adoni which are names used with Yahweh for God.

It calls for some concern really.
The priests not asking Jesus further questions could be that they had concluded either positively or negatively about him.

Did the Jewish leaders not accuse Jesus of blasphemy in Matthew 26:57-68

TenQ:


A Psalm of David.
Ps 110:1:
"The LORD said to my Lord, Sit you at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool."


Jesus then asked, how could the Messiah be the Son of David and David calls Him Lord.!


Wrong.
Anna and Mary have NOTHING in relation to each other. Anna was a childless widow and a prophetess.




There were inter-tribal marriages in Israel only that
At the time of Jesus, of the twelf tribes of Isreal, only two remain. The other ten tribes (who lived in the Northern Israel) were taken into slavery by the Assyrians 722 years before Jesus.

The only tribes remaining at the time of Jesus was Judah (tribe of David) and Benjamin.

honesttalk21:
You probably are pained due to what you may have come across however in Quran 5:82
ۖ وَلَتَجِدَنَّ أَقْرَبَهُمْ مَوَدَّةً لِلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّا نَصَارَىٰ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ مِنْهُمْ قِسِّيسِينَ وَرُهْبَانًا وَأَنَّهُمْ لَا يَسْتَكْبِرُونَ
And you will certainly find that the people most hostile against the believers are the Jews and the ones who ascribe partners to Allah. You will certainly find that the closest of them in friendship with the believers are those who say, “We are Christians.”That is because among them there are priests and monks, and because they are not arrogant.

And 2:62
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالنَّصَارَىٰ وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ
Indeed, those who believe, and those who are Jews, Christians, and Sabians. Whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does righteousness, they will have their reward with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor do they grieve

Allah himself knows who truly worships him with sincerity. It is not a case of who is seen to be righteous in the eyes of man

If this is the case
1. The Sabians worship the stars and constellations, why would they enter Paradise?

2. We Christians believe that God is Trinity, why would we enter Paradise?

3. I don't know the Offence of the Jews, why would they enter Paradise?

Eleazar (Mt 1:15) had two children, the one Mathan (Mt 1:15), and the
other Jotham. Joseph is descended from Mathan and Mary from Jotham.
Eleazar’s son Mathan begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Joseph. And Eleazar’s
son Jotham begot Zadoq, and Zadoq begot Mary by his wife Dina, who is
the sister of Elisabeth, the wife of Zechariah. For this reason it is written
that the Angel said to Mary, «Behold, Elisabeth your relative has con-
ceived» (Lk 1:36) — that is, the sister of your mother. Now Mary from her
father’s side was from the tribe of Judah, but from her mother’s side, from
the tribe of Levi.

Mary, of course, does not feature at all in the genealogies given in Mat-
thew 1 and Luke 3. Earlier commentators were more interested in providing
explanations for the apparent contradictions between the two lists (exempli-
fied by Joseph’s father being Jacob in Matthew and Eli in Luke).

honesttalk21:
Accepting that Anna was barring, do you however identify who her husband was?

Could you tell me who is documented as the mother of Mary?

Then about Psalm 110:1 may be subject for review. This is to understand how the old testament son of man is referred to as either Adonai or Adoni which are names used with Yahweh for God.

It calls for some concern really.
The priests not asking Jesus further questions could be that they had concluded either positively or negatively about him.

Did the Jewish leaders not accuse Jesus of blasphemy in Matthew 26:57-68

I can only refer you to Q5:118 where Jesus is prophesied to say in response to questions Allah will ask him
If You punish them, they belong to You after all.But if You forgive them, You are surely the Almighty, All-Wise.

TenQ:

If this is the case
1. The Sabians worship the stars and constellations, why would they enter Paradise?

2. We Christians believe that God is Trinity, why would we enter Paradise?

3. I don't know the Offence of the Jews, why would they enter Paradise?

22:17 Verily, those who believe (in Allah and in His Messenger Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and the Sabians [wa’l-sabi-in], and the Christians, and the Majus, and those who worship others besides Allah; truly, Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection. Verily, Allah is over all things a Witness

No one is exempt from judgement. I pray Allah grants me mercy in his judgement and all that truly believe in him.

TenQ:

If this is the case
1. The Sabians worship the stars and constellations, why would they enter Paradise?

2. We Christians believe that God is Trinity, why would we enter Paradise?

3. I don't know the Offence of the Jews, why would they enter Paradise?

ThatFairGuy1:
Advocatejar, the half-baked knowledge you had about Islam from what you read online only makes you looks stupid Everytime (not an insult)...

You need to enrol in Islamic school and start from learning from elementary level, that time you'll be ashamed of all jargons you've been putting online for years

You’re getting confused like your poisoned false prophet who mistook a demonic torment in the cave of Hira for an angelic visit and ended up leading all of you into a mass delusion that will land you in hellfire if you don’t repent.

By the way, I’m still waiting for you to show me the original gospel written by Jesus that you claim you have the link to

TenQ:

You will agree with me that far much more knowledgeable Muslim scholars have noticed this problem that not all hadiths can be trusted, therefore they made stringent rules with respect to trusted chains of narrators to grade every hadiths as
Sahih
Hassan
Daif
Mawdu

Muslim Clerics say that the fact that a Hadith is graded Daif doesn't mean it is false. It just mean that the chain of narration isn't strong.

But I think your argument should be applicable to the Qur'an too. Why should we trust the RECITATION of Hafs when we have written Qur'an dating far back in time.

Secondly, if the hadiths should all be discarded because of Trust issues, it proves that Muslims generally are UNTRUSTWORTHY bunch of LIARS!
If Muslims can lie this much, how can we trust their Qur'an?

Muslim clerics said this and muslim clerics said that. You amuse me ooo. You are the one that said the prophet even forbade the writing of Hadith and here you are quoting the words of those who insist on following what does not have the approval of God and his messenger, in order to make sure I agree with you that they are worth following.
Look what you should know is that in any ideology be it secular or theological, people tend to always corrupt and change it to fit their prejudices. It happened with the children of Israel, especially when Moses left them to be with God almighty, it take them just forty days to introduce worshipping of the calf. You can imagine what will happened after a long period of time. It happened with the Christian so much that a convention was held to determine what the right doctrines are. Yes I am talking about the nicene convention. It happened with the Muslim after the prophet was gone too. Thus, you have the Hadiths and most of the things that were foreign to Quran. It is nothing new. But what is important is God truth is there for everyone who care to find out in all of these scriptures that were written down. For example, an honest reading of the bible will tell you that Jesus Christ is not a God and also the term son of God was not literal.
You said:
But I think your argument should be applicable to the Qur'an too. Why should we trust the RECITATION of Hafs when we have written Qur'an dating far back in time.

This shows you are not paying attention to the point I have been making. You just wish to force Hadith down my throat. When did I say I trust either of the Hadith. I am just pointing that for you to see them as the fabrication that they are. And no there is no how you are going to apply the argument to the Quran. The Quran was a speech from God to the prophet and as soon as it was revealed it got written down, with the prophet permission, unlike the hadith nobody ever authorised it. So if you are being sincere there should be no copy of Hadith then. Mind you the earliest collection of Hadith you see me referring to, were even collected long after the prophet was gone and like I said most of the Hadith did not have the prophet name in them. So how do you compare the two?
By written Quran written way back, you mean that one at Birmingham right? Because that is the oldest Quran so far? I will want you to point the differences between that Quran and the hafs Quran?

honesttalk21:
إِلَّا Translates to but
However I don't have what you typed as I have
وَإِنْ مِنْكُمْ إِلَّا وَارِدُهَا ۚ كَانَ عَلَىٰ رَبِّكَ حَتْمًا مَقْضِيًّا
وَإِن مِّنكُمۡ إِلَّا وَارِدُهَا ۚ كَانَ عَلَىٰ رَبِّكَ حَتۡمًا مَّقۡضِيًّا

وَارِدُهَا translates to take it however in both the word for word and al-hilali meaning of verse translations I find this as passing over it.

Paused to recheck where وَإِنْ became وَمَا or maybe you are reading from another variant.
Is that why you have a smiley?

It must have been a mistake.
However, the bottom line remain the same.

ALL Muslims will enter the Fire of Hell until they are finally ransomed.

See your Tafsirs on Qur'an 19:71

Quran 19 :71 Abbas - Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
(There is not one of you but shall approach it) there is not a single one of you, to the exclusion of prophets and messengers, save that he will enter it, i.e. hell. (That is a fixed ordinance of your Lord) it is a decree that must necessarily take place.


Qur'an 19.71 Jalal - Al-Jalalayn
There is not one of you but shall come to it, that is, [but] shall enter Hell. That is an inevitability [already] decreed by your Lord, [something which] He made inevitable and [which] He decreed; He will not waive it.


Qur'an 19.71-72 Kathir - Ibn Al Kathir
Everyone will be brought to Hell, then the Righteous will be saved
Ibn Jarir reported from `Abdullah that he said concerning Allah's statement,



All Muslims are entering Hell Fire!

honesttalk21:
Pardon me if I find this a bit amusing so you conclude that ransom will be accepted from Muslims?

This is what your prophet Said : Christians and Jews would be used as ransom for Muslims in hell.

The implications is that the Jews and Christians cannot be in hell if they are to be used as ransom for Muslims.