musicwriter:


The problem is that Jesus never existed. Or do you have any proof that Jesus existed? If you have, present it and I'll delete this thread and convert back to Christianity.

LoL. I will indeed provide proof, but I'm asking for the REAL reason. That's because I provided a link to a source of evidence, but you're still asking. If you're still asking for proof after this, I will conclude that there is a deeper reason you left. Address that reason and everything else falls into place.


This is the link I provided on the historicity of Jesus, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#:~:text=Only%20two%20key%20events%20of%20Jesus%27s%20life%20are%20widely%20accepted%20as%20historical%2C%20namely%20his%20baptism%20and%20crucifixion.%5B

and the link says: “Only two key events of Jesus's life are widely accepted as historical, namely his baptism and crucifixion.” After that it provides some citations.

I provided this link too:

https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&prefer=lang&docid=1101990137
It's a long read, though. But it addresses the need for provides evidence scientific, shows how history fulfilled Bible prophecies, and tackles the need for proof from other angles too.

Did you know that the Bible foretold the existence of the United Nations organization? It foretold in striking details the conditions YOU see today.

Dustbinbint:




This is the link I provided on the historicity of Jesus, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#:~:text=Only%20two%20key%20events%20of%20Jesus%27s%20life%20are%20widely%20accepted%20as%20historical%2C%20namely%20his%20baptism%20and%20crucifixion.%5B

and the link says: “Only two key events of Jesus's life are widely accepted as historical, namely his baptism and crucifixion.” After that it provides some citations.

I'm glad you also use Wikipedia.

The "historical context" that was used in Jesus case was this, lets look into them and see if they really talked about Jesus.

musicwriter:

Bro, I already know your problem. Any indoctrination provides the victim the arguments to support itself.

So when people from different backgrounds, different cultures, different social status come together to agree on what you call a myth to you all these millions were indoctrinated shey?

Well you've chosen your path but it can never change the fact that a first century Jewish young man named Jesus of Nazareth issued an order that people should stop raising weapons against their fellow humans {Matthew 26:52} and millions today from different geographical locations on this planet are obeying him as his true disciples. Act 1:8

Do you know what a commander means?

Well let me tell you a little about the army:
The aim of any army is to capture their victims alive not to kill them because that's the living proof that they're powerful, intelligent and skillful much more than their captives.

Since the world has been created Jesus of Nazareth is the first and last army commander who issued such order and today his order is still in force.

Without physical weapons or the use of force his disciples (Jehovah's Witnesses) have penetrated almost all the countries on this planet catching people alive {Luke 5:10} using what Jesus taught them to erase hatred from the hearts of their captives and not only that but making the captives more fighters for the battle Jesus Christ recruited them {Matthew 28:18-20} but what have you got to say after seeing all these with your own eyes?

"INDOCTRINATION"

Obviously you don't know the indepth meaning of that word because if you do you should know that people indoctrinated can't point out any benefit in what they're doing not to talk of an organization that's achieving what all other organizations ever formed by man has failed woefully to achieve!

Why do you think organizations like FIFA, OLYMPIC and many more were formed?
OK you just think they were formed simply for sports shey?
Ọmọ what is the essence of engaging in sport when my families back home are killing your families or vise versa?

For your information those organizations were formed to make peace reign among all the members, none as in NONE has ever achieved 1% of what Jesus' disciples are doing today globally.

So before using a word think deeply on it's meaning, indoctrination is far from what God's people are doing today!

musicwriter:


Why would an all powerful God create a religion that would need restoration? What prevented such a fool from creating a perfect one in the first place?

And why would you trust such a fool that allowed people to kill innocent people around the world just so that he'll be known?

Ah! Is worldwide violence the reason?

Well, Jehovah gave us freewill. And in respect because of that, he doesn't interfere with our decisions by much. Just because some people choose to do such and such and the Bible recorded it doesn't mean God condoned it. The Bible also records the so-called good deeds of evil people. Certain God doesn't condone that.

The Bible is like the news report whose job is to report on things that are happening, not on things they like.

Just think, God's greatest commandment to us is that we should love him.
Are you really serving God out of love if he has to spell out everything you must do on the pain of capital punishment?
True love is shown by one's doing something because he WANTS to, and not because he is told to, forced to, or commanded to.

That is why God ALLOWED things to happen—bad or good.

Now, if God had created a perfect religion, humans wouldn't even meet it because we are not perfect. Take note of what Paul said about the Law of Moses: “The Law itself is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. . . The Law is spiritual.” (Romans 7:12, 14) The perfection of the Law is why it couldn't be kept by imperfect humans. (Psalms 19:7; Galatians 3:10)

Christianity is to be frank perfect too, it just has more allowances for human imperfections than the Law of Moses had.

You called Jehovah a fool? I want to know the reason for your grievances as to why you're calling a person a fool? Did he slight you?

Maynman:

I'm glad you also use Wikipedia.

The "historical context" that was used in Jesus case was this, lets look into them and see if they really talked about Jesus.

I'm trying to understand you?

It plainly implies that the evidence REALLY talked about Jesus.

Take note of this statement under the subheading “Modern Scholarship.”

_Scholars regard the question of historicity as generally settled in scholarship in the early 20th century._

Dustbinbint:


I'm trying to understand you?

It plainly implies that the evidence REALLY talked about Jesus.

Take note of this statement under the subheading “Modern Scholarship.”

_Scholars regard the question of historicity as generally settled in scholarship in the early 20th century._

Let's take the "modern scholarship" and look into it, shall we?

Maynman:

Are you sure you have done anything on research on CHRISTIANITY which is from Chrestianity?
And not to forget that it also comes from JUDAISM which also came from yahwism.

Surely, Judaism was the first religion God instituted for his people on earth. It painted a picture of what the ideal conditions of God's people should be.
When the time came for that religion to replaced as an old wine and wineskin is replaced by new wine and wineskin, (Matthew 9:14-17) Jesus came on scene and laid the basis for Christianity.

And I believe that I have researched into the evidences for Christianity.

Maynman:

Let's take the "modern scholarship" and look into it, shall we?

Indulge yourself

Dustbinbint:



Surely, Judaism was the first religion God instituted for his people on earth. It painted a picture of what the ideal conditions of God's people should be.
When the time came for that religion to replaced as an old wine and wineskin is replaced by new wine and wineskin, (Matthew 9:14-17) Jesus came on scene and laid the basis for Christianity.

And I believe that I have researched into the evidences for Christianity.

Judaism is from yahwism.

Dustbinbint:



Indulge yourself

First one is Suetonius, who was talking about "chrestus" living in Rome.

Maynman:

Where did the disciples who saw it write the story?

They kept it among themselves, apparently. They didn't write it. Even today, it isn't everything that you write.
Peter was the only one who ventured to write about it. It is there in 2 Peter 1:16-18.

Dustbinbint:


They kept it among themselves, apparently. They didn't write it. Even today, it isn't everything that you write.
Peter was the only one who ventured to write about it. It is there in.

2 Peter 1:16-18 wasn't talking about it.

The disciple that was present didn't talk about it, but the one that wasn't, talked EXTENSIVELY about it 😂

Maynman:

Judaism is from yahwism.

)
Okay.
Well, Jehovah, (or Yahweh if you prefer) condemned the Jews for worshipping goddesses, including Queen of Heaven, and others.
Interestingly, if we're talking about gods and goddesses, done forget the Madonna and child image reversed by the Roman Catholic church which some have in ignorance worshipped the Egyptian image which happened to look similar; also, don't forget to remember Easter (Eostre, Ostara) which celebrated by Christendom in general.

musicwriter:

Why would an all powerful God create a religion that would need restoration? What prevented such a fool from creating a perfect one in the first place? And why would you trust such a fool that allowed people to kill innocent people around the world just so that he'll be known?

Jehovah established a religion with a covenant and the Israelites were the chosen nation to hold onto that covenant until Christ comes.
Christ is the person that will teach them and make them understand the reason why some laws were given because he knew God so much more than all the imperfect humans who were inspired to pen down those words.

That's why Moses said:

Then Jehovah said to me, ‘What they have said is good. I will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him. Indeed, I will require an account from the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name" Deuteronomy 18:17-19

The prophet raised among the Israelites like Moses is Jesus of Nazareth according to God's word Moses was God among his contemporaries {Exodus 7:1} just as Jesus was God {John 1:1} Moses was the lawgiver just as Jesus was a lawgiver, Moses was a mediator between God and the Israelites just as Jesus was a mediator between God and faithful humans.

So Peter confirmed that Jesus of Nazareth is the prophet who is to come in the manner of Moses. Act 3:22

I know it will come to this because you thought you've wrapped it all up saying Christians are the dumbest but now that true Christians are teaching you what you missed you're becoming abusive against God Himself.

U have told you:
"ask any question that may come up into your heart but calm down and reason not just concluding rashly"

May you have PEACE!

Dustbinbint:


)
Okay.
Well, Jehovah, (or Yahweh if you prefer) condemned the Jews for worshipping goddesses, including Queen of Heaven, and others.

Yahweh' is just a local god that was worshipped by the isrealites.
His father is El, that gave him israEl as a nation.

Calm down and read on how yahwism evolve to Judaism after the Babylonian exile.

Maynman:

2 Peter 1:16-18 wasn't talking about it.

The disciple that was present didn't talk about it, but the one that wasn't, talked EXTENSIVELY about it 😂

LoL. No bro, Peter used the expression “we” in saying “WE were EYEWITNESSES” to indicate that he was in fact present. Reading Matthew 17:1 we see that Peter, James, and John were the ones who saw the vision. So, it is not true that “the disciple that was present didn't talk about it.” The disciple that talked, as you said, “EXTENSIVELY,” about it, is the one who was present. And isn't that what you would expect? That only an eyewitness would report extensively on a matter?

Dustbinbint:



Surely, Judaism was the first religion God instituted for his people on earth. It painted a picture of what the ideal conditions of God's people should be.
When the time came for that religion to replaced as an old wine and wineskin is replaced by new wine and wineskin, (Matthew 9:14-17) Jesus came on scene and laid the basis for Christianity.

And I believe that I have researched into the evidences for Christianity.

do you agree that Islam also came to replace both?

Dustbinbint:


LoL. No bro, Peter used the expression “we” in saying “WE were EYEWITNESSES” to indicate that he was in fact present. Reading Matthew 17:1 we see that Peter, James, and John were the ones who saw the vision. So, it is not true that “the disciple that was present didn't talk about it.” The disciple that talked, as you said, “EXTENSIVELY,” about it, is the one who was present. And isn't that what you would expect? That only an eyewitness would report extensively on a matter?

I was talking about Matthew or what did you read?

Which vision did they witness?
Did peter mention any vision?
Which vision did Matthew say they saw?

MaxInDHouse:


So when people from different backgrounds, different cultures, different social status come together to agree on what you call a myth to you all these millions were indoctrinated shey?

Well you've chosen your path but it can never change the fact that a first century Jewish young man named Jesus of Nazareth issued an order that people should stop raising weapons against their fellow humans {Matthew 26:52} and millions today from different geographical locations on this planet are obeying him as his true disciples. Act 1:8

Do you know what a commander means?

Well let me tell you a little about the army:
The aim of any army is to capture their victims alive not to kill them because that's the living proof that they're powerful, intelligent and skillful much more than their captives.

Since the world has been created Jesus of Nazareth is the first and last army commander who issued such order and today his order is still in force.

Without physical weapons or the use of force his disciples (Jehovah's Witnesses) have penetrated almost all the countries on this planet catching people alive {Luke 5:10} using what Jesus taught them to erase hatred from the hearts of their captives and not only that but making the captives more fighters for the battle Jesus Christ recruited them {Matthew 28:18-20} but what have you got to say after seeing all these with your own eyes?

"INDOCTRINATION"

Obviously you don't know the indepth meaning of that word because if you do you should know that people indoctrinated can't point out any benefit in what they're doing not to talk of an organization that's achieving what all other organizations ever formed by man has failed woefully to achieve!

Why do you think organizations like FIFA, OLYMPIC and many more were formed?
OK you just think they were formed simply for sports shey?
Ọmọ what is the essence of engaging in sport when my families back home are killing your families or vise versa?

For your information those organizations were formed to make peace reign among all the members, none as in NONE has ever achieved 1% of what Jesus' disciples are doing today globally.

So before using a word think deeply on it's meaning, indoctrination is far from what God's people are doing today!

Oh! You're a witness?

I attended Jehovah's witnesses church in my village as a kid, and even after leaving Christianity, I can admittedly say that you people have a good philosophy if only you can remove the Jesus mythology.

You don't need Jesus to know God or to be a good person. China and Japan are among the least corrupt countries in the world. They did it without Jesus.

Jesus is the God of slaves, God of defeated people. Were your ancestors conquered by another culture? That's why you believe in Jesus.

Dustbinbint:


)
Okay.
Well, Jehovah, (or Yahweh if you prefer)

There's nothing like "Jehovah".
https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica/Jehovah

22jumpstreet1:


do you agree that Islam also came to replace both?

Islam claims that its founder Mohammad was an offspring of Ishmael. If that's the case, Jehovah told Abraham that his offspring would come through Isaac and not through Ishmael. (Genesis 21:10-12) Paul reported that this drama where Sarah sent Ishmael away represented how God reserves his favour not for those he is casting away but for the true offspring, the congregation of Jesus.—Galatians 3:16, 29; 4:28-31.

Also, Abraham's real offspring through Isaac prophesied that Christianity would be restored, not replaced, in the time of the end.

For these reasons, I do not believe that Islam replaced either Judaism or Christianity.

Maynman:

There's nothing like "Jehovah".
https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica/Jehovah

Jehovah has a more solid root in the minds of people, that's why we use it.

You know, I have a good example:

You know Joshua in the Bible? The Joshua who led God's people into the promised land, yeah that one. Well, in Greek his name translates to Jesus, and that is what Stephen and Paul called him. (see Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8; Old King James Version) Neither of them argued that that wasn't his name, they just called him by the name that would be more rooted and hence more accepted by those speaking the language of the day.

It is the same with Jehovah. If anyone insists on calling him Yahweh, we won't stop them. It is better that everyone uses one name for ease and less confusion, and Jehovah is more rooted in the minds of people than Yahweh is.
The main thing is for people to realize that God has a proper name, not that the name you are using should be the original pronunciation.
For example, when we can't pronounce a person's name properly, we still pronounce it nevertheless—however way we can. And if they can sense our genuineness, they won't make an issue about it.

Besides, there is of yet no consensus as to what the original pronunciation of God's name is.

Dustbinbint:


Ah! Is worldwide violence the reason?

Well, Jehovah gave us freewill. And in respect because of that, he doesn't interfere with our decisions by much. Just because some people choose to do such and such and the Bible recorded it doesn't mean God condoned it. The Bible also records the so-called good deeds of evil people. Certain God doesn't condone that.

The Bible is like the news report whose job is to report on things that are happening, not on things they like.

Just think, God's greatest commandment to us is that we should love him.
Are you really serving God out of love if he has to spell out everything you must do on the pain of capital punishment?
True love is shown by one's doing something because he WANTS to, and not because he is told to, forced to, or commanded to.

That is why God ALLOWED things to happen—bad or good.

Now, if God had created a perfect religion, humans wouldn't even meet it because we are not perfect. Take note of what Paul said about the Law of Moses: “The Law itself is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. . . The Law is spiritual.” (Romans 7:12, 14) The perfection of the Law is why it couldn't be kept by imperfect humans. (Psalms 19:7; Galatians 3:10)

Christianity is to be frank perfect too, it just has more allowances for human imperfections than the Law of Moses had.

You called Jehovah a fool? I want to know the reason for your grievances as to why you're calling a person a fool? Did he slight you?

Yes, I called Jehovah a fool.

Jehovah is a typo error, I believe by Germans who were trying to write the Jewish Yahweh.

You don't have to worry whether I left Christianity because I was offended. Yahweh's own crimes in the bible is enough for anyone not to believe him.

Dustbinbint:


Jehovah has a more solid root in the minds of people, that's why we use it.

You know, I have a good example:

You know Joshua in the Bible? The Joshua who led God's people into the promised land, yeah that one. Well, in Greek his name translates to Jesus, and that is what Stephen and Paul called him. (see Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8; Old King James Version)

This is jargons.
Let's take it one by one.
First off, Jehovah is a nonsense mispronounced word,so calm down and read properly.
https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica/Jehovah


Secondly, Joshua is not Jesus in Greek, it's lesous in Greek, Jesus is a LATIN name called iesus, it was TRANSLITERATED from the Hebrew yeshua, which means "Yahweh saves".

Lastly, Please confirm what you are saying before posting not what they taught you.

Maynman:

Yahweh' is just a local god that was worshipped by the isrealites.
His father is El, that gave him israEl as a nation.

Calm down and read on how yahwism evolve to Judaism after the Babylonian exile.

I don't know, bro. But if that's how you see it, I appreciate a different perspective on any matter.

So, what's your take? That we evolved from a common ancestor? Or do you identify as agnostic?
Or perhaps you belong to a different religion.

Dustbinbint:


I don't know, bro. But if that's how you see it, I appreciate a different perspective on any matter.

Just look "Yahweh" up, the poor dummy god history is all over.

https://www.worldhistory.org/Yahweh/

Maynman:

This is jargons.
Let's take it one by one.
First off, Jehovah is a nonsense mispronounced word,so calm down and read properly.
https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica/Jehovah


Secondly, Joshua is not Jesus in Greek, it's lesous in Greek, Jesus is a LATIN name called iesus, it was TRANSLITERATED from the Hebrew yeshua, which means "Yahweh saves".

Lastly, Please confirm what you are saying before posting not what they taught you.

It's alright. Let's not deteriorate to name-calling.

You know, the issue as to Jehovah being a mispronunciation was why I gave the example of someone mispronouncing your name.
Our names get mispronounced all the time, and we don't make a big deal out of it.

Jehovah was originally a mispronunciation, okay. So, if we call him Yahweh for the sake of this discussion, man no go vex.


As for Jesus, what does Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 say? Isn't it Jesus?
Evidently, Joshua isn't literally Jesus in Greek. It has been Latinized and Anglicized. Anything I don't mention isn't because I am ignorant of it, but because I think it is too obvious to warrant mention. Or should we start using Greek alphabets to denote words in Greek? How about Hieroglyphics for words in Old Egypt?

Maynman:

Just look "Yahweh" up, the poor dummy god history is all over.

https://www.worldhistory.org/Yahweh/

This conversation isn't going anywhere, man. I don't know where all this resentment is coming from.
What was the original topic of this discussion again?
You see, you're really beginning to upset me because one of us is acting like a child, and that isn't me.

If you have a beef with Jehovah (or Yahweh or whatever you want to call him), spill. Don't keep it and let it fester.

Dustbinbint:

As for Jesus, what does Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 say? Isn't it Jesus?
Evidently, Joshua isn't literally Jesus in Greek. It has been Latinized and Anglicized. Anything I don't mention isn't because I am ignorant of it, but because I think it is too obvious to warrant mention. Or should we start using Greek alphabets to denote words in Greek? How about Hieroglyphics for words in Old Egypt?

My RSV says "Joshua".
Joshua is an English name.
Jesus is a latinised name, they even had to remove I(esus) and replace with j(esus). Who is esus?

Dustbinbint:


This conversation isn't going anywhere, man. I don't know where all this resentment is coming from.
What was the original topic of this discussion again?
You see, you're really beginning to upset me because one of us is acting like a child, and that isn't me.

If you have a beef with Jehovah (or Yahweh or whatever you want to call him), spill. Don't keep it and let it fester.

The history is there for you to see, I called Yahweh, a dummy because that's what he is, there is no resentment but FACTS, it's you in your feelings for your isrealite god.

Are you here to talk Facts or your beliefs, please if you don't have facts next time, don't quote me.

https://www.worldhistory.org/Yahweh/

musicwriter:


Yes, I called Jehovah a fool.

Jehovah is a typo error, I believe by Germans who were trying to write the Jewish Yahweh.

You don't have to worry whether I left Christianity because I was offended. Yahweh's own crimes in the bible is enough for anyone not to believe him.

Ah! So it's the things he did and the things he allowed?

We can take the “crimes” one after the other. Mention one of them.

Maynman:

The history is there for you to see, I called Yahweh, a dummy because that's what he is, there is no resentment but FACTS, it's you in your feelings for your isrealite god.

Are you here to talk Facts or your beliefs, please if you don't have facts next time, don't quote me.

https://www.worldhistory.org/Yahweh/

You're not upsetting me because you're calling Jehovah a dummy. OP called him a fool, and I didn't express any resentment, or did I.
Look harder for what you're doing. I've replied to several of your posts, so examine them all.

And I'm here to talk about the historicity of Jesus and of his disciples. Remember I asked you for the original topic?