musicwriter:

Nobody in history or in the bible claimed to have had any contact with Jesus.

For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him (JESUS) in the holy mount.2 Peter 1:17-18 KJV
Compare to:

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Matthew 17:1-5

So Matthew and John were eyewitnesses of what Jesus said, did and taught though they penned down their gospels some decades after Jesus' ascension to heaven but Peter here in his letter mentioned it that himself and two other disciples were with Jesus on the mountain when he was transfigured right in their presence.

MaxInDHouse:

And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Is the author not with "them"?

It should read "And, behold, there appeared unto US Moses and Elias talking with him.

MaxInDHouse:



[b]And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Is the author not among those that were taken by Jesus to the mountain?

It should have read
"And after six days Jesus TOOK US, me, peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth US up into an high mountain apart"

Maynman:

Is the author not with "them"?

It should read "And, behold, there appeared unto US Moses and Elias talking with him.

The writer (Matthew) wasn't present in this case those with Jesus that day were Peter, James and John! Matthew 17:1

MaxInDHouse:

The writer (Matthew) wasn't present in this case those with Jesus that day were Peter, James and John! Matthew 17:1

How did Matthew then know about the story if he was not present?
Where was he when this was going on, and why didn't he record that?

MaxInDHouse:


For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him (JESUS) in the holy mount.2 Peter 1:17-18 KJV
Compare to:

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Matthew 17:1-5

So Matthew and John were eyewitnesses of what Jesus said, did and taught though they penned down their gospels some decades after Jesus' ascension to heaven but Peter here in his letter mentioned it that himself and two other disciples were with Jesus on the mountain when he was transfigured right in their presence.

You're shifting it to Mathew and John? Ok, show me where Matthew and John said:-

"Jesus told me"

"Jesus said to me"

"I said to Jesus"

"I told Jesus"

"Me and Jesus"

"Jesus and myself "

"We and Jesus"

"I saw Jesus "

"We saw Jesus "

"We met Jesus "

"Jesus met me"

"I met Jesus "

"Jesus gave me"

"I gave Jesus "

"I went to see Jesus "

"Jesus came to see me"

"Jesus healed me"

"I was healed by Jesus"

You can't find it because the event NEVER occurred. Rome was simply copying and re-writing a GENERIC story as it has always been told and retold for thousands of years before anybody heard of Jesus. All they did was affix Jesus's name and few other characters and scenes.

Maynman:

How did Matthew then know about the story if he was not present? Where was he when this was going on, and why didn't he record that?

According to the book Jesus selected twelve men out of his numerous disciples and called them "Apostles" {Luke 6:13} so it's among these twelve that Matthew happens to be one {Matthew 10:2; Luke 6:14-16} but the day he went to that mountain he took three out of his apostles there {Matthew 17:1} you don't need to be told that the rest of the twelve heard from these three nah?

musicwriter:

"We and Jesus"
"We saw Jesus"

Peter has answered your question in the Bible book of 2Peter 1:17

So there's no need for arguments as Peter said:

"For he received from God the Father honor and glory when words such as these were conveyed to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my Son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.” Yes, these words we heard coming from heaven while we were with (Jesus) in the holy mountain"

If you have further questions feel free to ask thanks and may you have PEACE!

MaxInDHouse:

According to the book Jesus selected twelve men out of his numerous disciples and called them "Apostles" {Luke 6:13} so it's among these twelve that Matthew happens to be one {Matthew 10:2; Luke 6:14-16} but the day he went to that mountain he took three out of his apostles there {Matthew 17:1} you don't need to be told that the rest of the twelve heard from these three nah?

💯

MaxInDHouse:


Peter has answered your question in the Bible book of 2Peter 1:17

So there's no need for arguments as Peter said:

"For he received from God the Father honor and glory when words such as these were conveyed to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my Son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.” Yes, these words we heard coming from heaven while we were with (Jesus) in the holy mountain"

If you have further questions feel free to ask thanks and may you have PEACE!

Peter didn't answer my question.

However, Peter actually showed how the original text was written in Greek.

You notice that Peter never mentioned Jesus? There's a reason for that.

The reason is that in the original pre-Septuagint/Greek translation from Hebrew/Aramaic, the scripts said "him" or "he" or "his" in place of Jesus because the original story was told with stock characterization to enable anybody or culture affix their own super hero. Greco-Romans filled in Jesus much later.

But the original scripts said he, him, his, NOT Jesus!!

The video below is from a former Jehovah's witnesses member who left the church to seek real enlightenment. He went to the online archives of the Greek script and couldn't find the name (Ioun) Jesus in the texts. He revealed a lot that could actually open your eyes and set you free

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSIXYI4vgYU&pp

MaxInDHouse:

you don't need to be told that the rest of the twelve heard from these three nah?

😂
So he wasn't there, he just heard that Moses appeared too just as we are hearing

So which book did these 3 write this story, let's see how they wrote it, I am sure it'll be different from Matthew that just heard it also

musicwriter:

Peter didn't answer my question.
However, Peter actually showed how the original text was written in Greek.
You notice that Peter never mentioned Jesus? There's a reason for that.
The reason is that in the original pre-Septuagint/Greek translation from Hebrew/Aramaic, the scripts said "him" or "he" or "his" in place of Jesus because the original story was told with stock characterization to enable anybody, cultural affix their own super hero. Greco-Romans filled in Jesus much later.
But the original scripts said he, him, his, NOT Jesus!!

You can only argue where there is no evidence the proof that Jesus is a real historical figure is here today, you can imagine someone telling you that the Wright Brothers never existed and all the stories about them was cooked up when the world now have flying vessels carrying people from one continent to another would you swallow such criticism after seeing the aeroplane with your own eyes?
So if someone told you that all stories about gods and deities were cooked up you have reasons to believe such stories but not in this case where the disciples of Christ Jesus are zealously preaching and industriously teaching what he commanded throughout the earth as they keep on erasing the use of weapons in the hearts of millions from different geographical locations on this planet today! Act 1:8

So instead of this your preparedness to argue why not ask me why Jesus can't be erased from history?

Maynman:

😂
So he wasn't there, he just heard that Moses appeared too just as we are hearing
So which book did these 3 write this story, let's see how they wrote it, I am sure it'll be different from Matthew that just heard it also

There are different ways we get information so your absence at an event doesn't mean it never happened most especially when you're seeing the EFFECTS all around you!

MaxInDHouse:


You can only argue where there is no evidence the proof that Jesus is a real historical figure is here today, you can imagine someone telling you that the Wright Brothers never existed and all the stories about them was cooked up when the world now have flying vessels carrying people from one continent to another would you swallow such criticism after seeing he aeroplane with your own eyes?
So if someone told you that all stories about gods and deities were cooked up you have reasons to believe such stories but not in this case where the disciples of Christ Jesus are zealously preaching and industriously teaching what he commanded throughout the earth as they keep on erasing the use of weapons in the hearts of millions from different geographical locations on this planet today! Act 1:8

So instead of this your preparedness to argue why not ask me why Jesus can't be erased from history?

There's no debate any place about the existence of the Wright brothers, so it's a meaningless comparison.

Neither would other mythical Gods from different parts of the world die.

The only Gods that would die are those from enslaved people/ lands.

MaxInDHouse:


There are different ways we get information so your absence at an event doesn't mean it never happened most especially when you're seeing the EFFECTS all around you!

So he wasn't there, he just heard that Moses appeared too just as we are hearing.
So which book did these 3 that were present write this INFORMATION/story, let's see how they wrote it, I am sure it'll be different from Matthew that WASN'T THERE.

Funny how you are proving the Op right

Maynman:

So he wasn't there, he just heard that Moses appeared too just as we are hearing
So which book did these 3 that were present write this INFORMATION/story, let's see how they wrote it, I am sure it'll be different from Matthew that WASN'T THERE.

Funny how you are proving the Op right

Of course, he can't show where they wrote it because it didn't happen. Period.

Even the one he showed saying "we" is a Greco-Roman forgery/edit into the bible. Unfortunately, he's not even aware there are many forgeries in the bible.

Ourtruth247 check this out.

musicwriter:
One good thing that would happen to you if you quit Christianity or any other religion is that your eyes will open wide and you'll see clearly, in fact, you'll actually begin to understand what the bible is saying when you quit Christianity. What an irony!

Many people reading the bible don't understand that nobody in history met Jesus, including his so called disciples.

Mark, Luke, Mathew, John NEVER met Jesus!! Non even existed.

If you argue otherwise, then show me where in the bible where Mark or Mathew or Luke or John claimed to have met Jesus.

Nobody in history or in the bible claimed to have had any contact with Jesus.

You know why? Because Jesus is mythology, not a human being, and it was well understood among the ancients that any place "Jesus said" in the bible was an ancient template for anybody, any culture to write their own mythical savior/hero story in their image.

Jesus was never meant to be taken as a human being even among the earliest christians- the gnostics.

Again, Mark, Mathew, Luke, John NEVER claimed to have met Jesus. They simply reported a story as it was already told thousands of years before anybody heard of Jesus. That's why they always said "Jesus said to them" not "Jesus said to us". Even when Mathew who was supposedly a disciple of Jesus was writing, but he wrote "Jesus said to Mathew" not "Jesus said to me". But Christians aren't seeing it!! To be a Christian is to be spiritually BLIND.

If you think you know your bible better than I do, I am ready to take a bet with you.

I'll send N100,000 to your bank account if you show me any place where the bible said any of the quotes below:-

"Jesus told me"

"Jesus said to me"

"I said to Jesus"

"I told Jesus"

"Me and Jesus"

"Jesus and myself "

"We and Jesus"

"I saw Jesus "

"We saw Jesus "

"We met Jesus "

"Jesus met me"

"I met Jesus "

"Jesus gave me"

"I gave Jesus "

"I went to see Jesus "

"Jesus came to see me"

"Jesus healed me"

"I was healed by Jesus"

Mark, Luke, Mathew, John NEVER met Jesus!! Mark, Luke, Mathew, John like Jesus, NEVER even existed! They were all invented by Rome.

The dumbest thing I've ever done in my life was to be a Christian.

Those books were written well after the supposed time jesus was on earth. Go figure

musicwriter:

There's no debate any place about the existence of the Wright brothers, so it's a meaningless comparison.

Of course you can't worry about the Wright brothers because nobody is talking about OBEDIENCE to them other than enjoying what they invented but as for Jesus obedience is required and most people are rebellious so it's due to their rebellious hearts that they're scheming all sorts of criticism against Jesus of Nazareth.
However if someone hates the story of Wright Brothers he may not like to talk about them or what they invented moreover if someone wish they never existed he may choose never to think about how they discovered aeroplane and such a person will always find a thousand and one evil in travelling by air.
Today Jesus' disciples (Jehovah's Witnesses) have successfully erased the making, buying, selling and usage of weapons in the hearts of millions across the globe simply because they reasoned with the wise counsel of Jesus Christ just as it has been prophesied in God's word even before Jesus was born! Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

So whether you accept it or not the evidence that Jesus Christ once walked on this planet is here to stay they are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES he said:

"(They) will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon (them), and (they) will be witnesses of (him) in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.” Act 1:8

My friend go to America, go to Australia, go to Asia, go to Europe and here in Africa you will see people peacefully declaring the Good News of God's kingdom as the only solution to mankind's problem while unbelievers are confused using weapons to fight and kill one another due to politics! Revelations 6:3-4

In the name of our now reigning king Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour who is the Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} may you have PEACE!

musicwriter:

Of course, he can't show where they wrote it because it didn't happen. Period.
Even the one he showed saying "we" is a Greco-Roman forgery/edit into the bible. Unfortunately, he's not even aware there are many forgeries in the bible.

Critics can come up with a million excuses to contradict what was written in the Bible ọmọ all that is late now because you can't deny the existence of Wright Brothers while seeing the aeroplane they discovered just as nobody can explain how obedient people from different geographical locations on this planet came together to form one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} while billions are still confused not aware of the reason why they have to continue fighting and killing one another simply because two men ordered them to go killing or get killed! Revelations 6:3-4

With JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ORGANIZATION on this planet ọmọ no criticism against Jesus can stand anymore! Matthew 5:14-16

jaephoenix:

Those books were written well after the supposed time jesus was on earth. Go figure

But they were written by his followers, it doesn't matter how long before it was written

MaxInDHouse:


Critics can come up with a million excuses to contradict what was written in the Bible ọmọ all that is late now because you can't deny the existence of Wright Brothers while seeing the aeroplane they discovered just as nobody can explain how obedient people from different geographical locations on this planet came together to form one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} while billions are still confused not aware of the reason why they have to continue fighting and killing one another simply because two men ordered them to go killing or get killed! Revelations 6:3-4

With JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ORGANIZATION on this planet ọmọ no criticism against Jesus can stand anymore! Matthew 5:14-16

Bro, I already know your problem. Any indoctrination provides the victim the arguments to support itself.

Otherwise, a little history would tell you that if not for the Roman empire, nobody would know anything about your Jesus.

Jesus doesn't have to be a real person for Christianity to spread around the world. All it requires is the patronage of a powerful tyrant. Indeed, emperor Constantine filled that role

If Rome didn't employ Christianity as a common religion to govern their colonies, nobody would know about a Jesus. If people weren't killed, threatened, hanged, dehumanized for not accepting Christianity, it would have been a dead religion by now.

So, as far as the spread of Christianity beyond the Mediterranean goes, you should instead be thankful to the Roman empire, not Jesus, not Paul, or anyone else.

First off all, click this link for more information on the accuracy of the Bible, including the four Gospels: https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&prefer=lang&docid=1101990137

Matthew 9:9 reports Jesus’ calling of Matthew to become his disciple. Both Mark and Luke report the same event, using his second name Levi. (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27)

Mark was a young man who got many of his stories from Peter.
Luke was never a disciple of Jesus during his birth. The Gospel of Luke was actually an evidence he compiled (from several eye-witness sources) in form of a letter to a man of high station called Theophilus.
While it's true that John didn't directly make reference to himself in the first person, he did report having contact with Jesus. See 1 John 1:1, 5 on this.

The apostle Peter did report eyewitness testimony where he convinces his readers that the story of Jesus is not a myth. He used the plural show that he wasn't the only one who witnessed what happened.—2 Peter 1:16-18.

The apostle Paul too faced those who were too eager to disbelieve the resurrection, and he appealed to eyewitness testimony where the resurrected Jesus was publicly seen by an assembly of over 500 of his disciples. He also used a masterful argument to show that Jesus was indeed resurrected.—1 Corinthians 15:4-8, 12-19.


As to the existence of Jesus, well-researched reports documents that a man truly existed who was: (1) named Jesus, (2) baptized by a certain John the baptizer in the Jordan river, (3) had much wisdom, (4) taught with ease and won the admiration of many, (5) was killed at the pronouncement of Pontius Pilate.

The main interest is what moved you to conclude that such men never existed and thus reject Christianity. Did something happen that caused you to double-check your stay in Christianity? Perhaps the hypocrisy so prevalent among so-called Christians and their churches?

Look at the highlighted text in this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#:~:text=Only%20two%20key%20events%20of%20Jesus%27s%20life%20are%20widely%20accepted%20as%20historical%2C%20namely%20his%20baptism%20and%20crucifixion.%5B

musicwriter:


But they were written by his followers, it doesn't matter how long before it was written

does Jesus need to exist before anything can be written about' him'?

22jumpstreet1:


does Jesus need to exist before anything can be written about' him'?

I should be asking you!!

Does Okoronkwo have to exist before something could be written about him by Chinua Achebe?

Does spider man have to exist before something is written about him?

Does cat woman have to exist before something is written about her?

Does Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer have to exist before something is written about him?

Maynman:

How did Matthew then know about the story if he was not present?
Where was he when this was going on, and why didn't he record that?

The disciples who saw that were strictly ordered by Jesus to keep silent on that experience until after his resurrection.—Matthew 17:9.

I really want to know why you left Christianity to begin with.
If evidence is what you are seeking, it is SO abundant. In time, I will show them all to you, because I too have examined all bases for my beliefs. If on the other hand something else is responsible, perhaps the prevalence of wickedness, the hypocrisy of the churches, etc, we can discuss those as well.

Dustbinbint:


The disciples who saw that were strictly ordered by Jesus to keep silent on that experience until after his resurrection.—Matthew 17:9.

I really want to know why you left Christianity to begin with.
If evidence is what you are seeking, it is SO abundant. In time, I will show them all to you, because I too have examined all bases for my beliefs. If on the other hand something else is responsible, perhaps the prevalence of wickedness, the hypocrisy of the churches, etc, we can discuss those as well.

The problem is that Jesus never existed. Or do you have any proof that Jesus existed? If you have, present it and I'll delete this thread and convert back to Christianity.

Dustbinbint:


The disciples who saw that were strictly ordered by Jesus to keep silent on that experience until after his resurrection.—Matthew 17:9.

Where did the disciples who saw it write the story?

Dustbinbint:


I really want to know why you left Christianity to begin with.
If evidence is what you are seeking, it is SO abundant. In time, I will show them all to you, because I too have examined all bases for my beliefs. If on the other hand something else is responsible, perhaps the prevalence of wickedness, the hypocrisy of the churches, etc, we can discuss those as well.

Are you sure you have done anything on research on CHRISTIANITY which is from Chrestianity?
And not to forget that it also comes from JUDAISM which also came from yahwism.

musicwriter:


Bro, I already know your problem. Any indoctrination provides the victim the arguments to support itself.

Otherwise, a little history would tell you that if not for the Roman empire, nobody would know anything about your Jesus.

Jesus doesn't have to be a real person for Christianity to spread around the world. All it requires is the patronage of a powerful tyrant. Indeed, emperor Constantine filled that role

If Rome didn't employ Christianity as a common religion to govern their colonies, nobody would know about a Jesus. If people weren't killed, threatened, hanged, dehumanized for not accepting Christianity, it would have been a dead religion by now.

So, as far as the spread of Christianity beyond the Mediterranean goes, you should instead be thankful to the Roman empire, not Jesus, not Paul, or anyone else.

Really, if Jesus hadn't given anyone the assignment to make disciples of people of all the nations, would anyone even undertake to do so? There is no contest here, and whatever you think is the answer to that, the forced conversion by some in the Roman times fulfilled a prophecy by Jesus and Paul.

In Matthew 13:24-30 and 36-39, Jesus indicated that at some point after the apostles’ death, Christianity would get corrupted and would remain that way for much of history, until the ‘end times.’—Acts 20:29, 30; 2 Peter 2:1, 2; see also 1 Timothy 4:1, 2; 2 Timothy 4:3, 4.

But during the time of the end, all things will be restored including true Christianity, (Acts 3:21) and they will once again seriously take on the commission to preach and teach and make disciples. The restoration of true Christianity in the time of the end is why the worldwide witnessing concerning the Kingdom of God is mentioned as a sign of the time of the end. It will be carried out by the restored organization of genuine disciples of Christ.—Matthew 24:3, 14.

musicwriter:


I should be asking you!!

Does Okoronkwo have to exist before something could be written about him by Chinua Achebe?

Does spider man have to exist before something is written about him?

Does cat woman have to exist before something is written about her?

Does Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer have to exist before something is written about him?

see this guy oh....question wey i ask you, you dey ask me back...

no be you write this one?

But they were written by his followers, it doesn't matter how long before it was written

Dustbinbint:

Really, if Jesus hadn't given anyone the assignment to make disciples of people of all the nations, would anyone even undertake to do so? There is no contest here, and whatever you think is the answer to that, the forced conversion by some in the Roman times fulfilled a prophecy by Jesus and Paul.

In Matthew 13:24-30 and 36-39, Jesus indicated that at some point after the apostles’ death, Christianity would get corrupted and would remain that way for much of history, until the ‘end times.’—Acts 20:29, 30; 2 Peter 2:1, 2; see also 1 Timothy 4:1, 2; 2 Timothy 4:3, 4.

But during the time of the end, all things will be restored including true Christianity, (Acts 3:21) and they will once again seriously take on the commission to preach and teach and make disciples. The restoration of true Christianity in the time of the end is why the worldwide witnessing concerning the Kingdom of God is mentioned as a sign of the time of the end. It will be carried out by the restored organization of genuine disciples of Christ.—Matthew 24:3, 14.

Why would an all powerful God create a religion that would need restoration? What prevented such a fool from creating a perfect one in the first place?

And why would you trust such a fool that allowed people to kill innocent people around the world just so that he'll be known?