Ohyoudidnt:


The Deuterocanonical books were included in the Septuagint, but not the Hebrew Bible. They are mostly included in the Catholic Old Testament, but not in the Protestant one.

So the protoevangelium and infancy gospel of Thomas are apocryphal gospel. This means their authenticity is doubtful.

The were written late in the 2nd century, far removed from when Jesus or Mary lived.
The letters are forgery because they are pseudopigraphia. Neither James nor Thomas wrote the letters.
They contain strange gospel messages that were not part of the oral gospel known to the early Christian church.

So if U want to base your faith on such unreliable books that's fine, but don't come here to tell me Mary is 12 yrs old because a forged book said so.

TenQ:

How is this a Strawman Argument.

By the way, the highlighted in yellow is False. It should read

Allah isn't everywhere due to the fact that he has to come DOWN from above the first heavens to the lowest heaven to listen to the prayers of the Muslims .


Is Allah being omnipresent akin to sending his Angels and Messanger to occupy and monitor the whole earth or universe for him (ie. God delegates his presence) ?

Principles and exactly how Allah comes down you add to your straws or fresh shoots of argument are not understood by you.

Sadly even when you get it you wouldn't accept.

SIRTee15:


So the protoevangelium and infancy gospel of Thomas are apocryphal gospel. This means their authenticity is doubtful.

The were written late in the 2nd century, far removed from when Jesus or Mary lived.
The letters are forgery because they are pseudopigraphia. Neither James nor Thomas wrote the letters.
They contain strange gospel messages that were not part of the oral gospel known to the early Christian church.

So if U want to base your faith on such unreliable books that's fine, but don't come here to tell me Mary is 12 yrs old because a forged book said so.

I see we are coming to some degree of agreement. Some apocrypha are accepted and others rejected.

In any case. I pointed at age range of 12-14 for Mary. Which age do you agree with and why?

Which book or books do you say are forged ?

SIRTee15:


Pls study something b4 bringing it to debate.
Deuterocanonical books has absolutely nothing to do with our argument.
It has nothing to do with the infancy gospel of Thomas or protoevangelium.
As at the time the deuterocanonical books were compiled, Jesus had not even been born not to talk of someone writing any gospel book about him.

Do you deny that the Deuterocanonical books are also referred to as the apocrypha you say are the source of the information about Mary?

TenQ:

I don't do Strawman Arguments!

A Strawman is creating ANOTHER image of the Text of Argument that we can easily deal with or respond to INSTEAD of the real text of Argument.

1. Non of the Christian texts say we worship Three Gods
2. Not even the most heretical Christian sect claim to worship Three Gods.

But to advance the cause of Islam, you cannot stray from the misconception of Allah aka Mohammed.



1. Is it untrue that I said that
The Father is YAHWEH
The Word is YAHWEH and
The Spirit is YAHWEH ?
2. Is it untrue that I likened it to the relationship between
Your Body is YOU
Your Soul is YOU and
Your Spirit is YOU ?
3. Is it untrue that I simplified you for you Muslims as the Duality of Man rather than the Trinity (where a man is His BODY and His RUH/NAFS)


Using your exact words (paraphrased and modified for the Duality of Man)
This is very unlike the pluriform monotheism, where multiple gods YOU are recognized as extensions of the same divine entity of Christianity a person.

Do you have MULTIPLE You(S) exactly as Christians have multiple God's?



By the way: Iblis is ONE!
Or Iblis is more than one in Islam?

The Christian text don't say you worship three Gods but in practice you worship a Father God, Son God and Holy spirit God?

How is this?

That at the same time they are distinct and the God father is greater than the other 2?

God created mankind as his representative but God is distinct and different from the created. Nothing is like or comparable to almighty Allah.

Ohyoudidnt:


Principles and exactly how Allah comes down you add to your straws or fresh shoots of argument are not understood by you.

Sadly even when you get it you wouldn't accept.

Your prophet said this: is it a fabrication?

Sahih Muslim 758b
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying: Allah descends every night to the lowest heaven when one-third of the first part of the night is over and says: I am the Lord; I am the Lord: who is there to supplicate Me so that I answer him? Who is there to beg of Me so that I grant him? Who is there to beg forgiveness from Me so that I forgive him? He continues like this till the day breaks.

Again:

Sahih Muslim 758c
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying: When half of the night or two-third of it is over. Allah, the Blessed and the Exalted, descends to the lowest heaven and says: Is there any beggar, so that he be given? Is there any supplicator so that he be answered? Is there any beggar of forgiveness so that he be forgiven? (And Allah continues it saying) till it is daybreak.


Again From Bukhari:
Sahih al-Bukhari 1145
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (p.b.u.h) said, "Our Lord, the Blessed, the Superior, comes every night down on the nearest Heaven to us when the last third of the night remains, saying: "Is there anyone to invoke Me, so that I may respond to invocation? Is there anyone to ask Me, so that I may grant him his request? Is there anyone seeking My forgiveness, so that I may forgive him?"


Did your prophet say these hadiths or not?

Ohyoudidnt:

The Christian text don't say you worship three Gods but in practice you worship a Father God, Son God and Holy spirit God?

How is this?

Without strawman arguments, you have nothing to say!
Swear by your Allah that I didn't spend two pages explaining to you the Trinity of God that
1. The Christians have only ONE God
2. His Name is Yahweh
3. God is not like Anything but He made mankind in His image
*He is the Father in heaven
*He is the Holy Spirit Everywhere in space and time (physical and spiritual)
*He is the Word who manifest anywhere in space and time (physical or spiritual)

https://www.nairaland.com/8013043/muslims-oblivious-serious-flaws-taoheed/24#129074956

https://www.nairaland.com/8013043/muslims-oblivious-serious-flaws-taoheed/24#129075282

Ohyoudidnt:

That at the same time they are distinct and the God father is greater than the other 2?

Where is this said that God the Father is higher than the WORD or the HOLY Spirit?
If the WORD humbled Himself as Jesus, then the Father is Greater than He is.
Phil 2:8
And being found in the fashion as a man, he humbled Himself, and became obedient to death, even the death on the cross.
Because, Jesus can be Hungry and He can feel every emotion of Man, BUT the WORD cannot!

Ohyoudidnt:

God created mankind as his representative but God is distinct and different from the created. Nothing is like or comparable to almighty Allah.

Except that Allah has the attributes of a creation
1. Allah is NOT Omnipresent:
He has to descent to the lowest heaven to do anything their.
2. Allah is NOT Omniscient:
Else he is perpetually trapped hear on earth. He seems not to know that the earth is spherical. No wonder, he thinks that the sun sets in some murky waters and there is a people near the setting place of the sun.
3. Allah is NOT Omnipotent:
He cannot even have a son without having sex with among others like him.


To you, it doesn't make sense how Yahweh can be in Heaven, On Earth and Everywhere at the same time. Your doctrine of Taoheed is seriously irrevocably flawed my brother

When Allah comes down to the lowest heaven, can you explain why he leaves his throne above the heavens vacant?

Ohyoudidnt:


Principles and exactly how Allah comes down you add to your straws or fresh shoots of argument are not understood by you.

Sadly even when you get it you wouldn't accept.

Have you even made any feeble attempt of explaining this?


Is Allah being omnipresent akin to sending his Angels and Messenger to occupy and monitor the whole earth or universe for him (ie. God delegates his presence) ?

How can Allah be said to be on his throne in heaven and come down (descend) to the lowest heaven?

TenQ:

Your prophet said this: is it a fabrication?

Sahih Muslim 758b
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying: Allah descends every night to the lowest heaven when one-third of the first part of the night is over and says: I am the Lord; I am the Lord: who is there to supplicate Me so that I answer him? Who is there to beg of Me so that I grant him? Who is there to beg forgiveness from Me so that I forgive him? He continues like this till the day breaks.

As the others are essentially repetition I will reply to this.

The phrase “Allah descends” is seen as an expression of divine mercy and attentiveness rather than a literal descent from one place to another. It highlights the significance of that time for spiritual reflection, devotion, and seeking closeness to Allah through prayer and remembrance.

The concept of Allah descending does not imply a physical movement from one place to another as Allah is believed to be omnipresent and beyond physical limitations. Instead, this hadith is understood metaphorically or symbolically to emphasize Allah’s mercy, attention, and closeness to His creation during that time of the night.


What is the significance of the prayer vigil done in Christianity?

Ohyoudidnt:


I see we are coming to some degree of agreement. Some apocrypha are accepted and others rejected.

In any case. I pointed at age range of 12-14 for Mary. Which age do you agree with and why?

Which book or books do you say are forged ?

Why did Qur'an copy from a forged gospel book.

SIRTee15:


Why did Qur'an copy from a forged gospel book.

What did the Quran copy?

The Quran is a revelation.

Ohyoudidnt:


What did the Quran copy?

The Quran is a revelation.

Revelations of Tales of the Ancients!
The Parable of the Seven Sleepers!

You didn't know this!?

Ohyoudidnt:


As the others are essentially repetition I will reply to this.

The phrase “Allah descends” is seen as an expression of divine mercy and attentiveness rather than a literal descent from one place to another. It highlights the significance of that time for spiritual reflection, devotion, and seeking closeness to Allah through prayer and remembrance.

The concept of Allah descending does not imply a physical movement from one place to another as Allah is believed to be omnipresent and beyond physical limitations. Instead, this hadith is understood metaphorically or symbolically to emphasize Allah’s mercy, attention, and closeness to His creation during that time of the night.


What is the significance of the prayer vigil done in Christianity?

I would have agreed with you if not because Mohammed is not known to speak figuratively of Allah.

Mohammed could have said that Allah sends down his attributes NOT that Allah descend into the Lowest Heaven. I am sure that not one single hadith support you on this.

There are factors which make it not figurative
1. It occurs Every Night.
2. The location is the Lowest Heaven.
Are these figurative too?

Not withstanding this: Please respond to the questions below

1. Where then is Allah according to Mohammed?
2. Can Allah enter his creation?
3. Is it true that Muslims will see Allah on the day of Judgement?
4. Is Al-Bait-al-Ma'mur a real house or not

TenQ:

I would have agreed with you if not because Mohammed is not known to speak figuratively of Allah.

Mohammed could have said that Allah sends down his attributes NOT that Allah descend into the Lowest Heaven. I am sure that not one single hadith support you on this.

There are factors which make it not figurative
1. It occurs Every Night.
2. The location is the Lowest Heaven.
Are these figurative too?

Not withstanding this: Please respond to the questions below

1. Where then is Allah according to Mohammed?
2. Can Allah enter his creation?
3. Is it true that Muslims will see Allah on the day of Judgement?
4. Is Al-Bait-al-Ma'mur a real house or not

You are free to believe what you want. Tenq did not create Allah and cannot define what or how Allah is.


Allah is the greatest and nothing is like unto him.

La hawla wa la quwwata illa billah

There is no power and no strength except with Allah.

Ohyoudidnt:


You are free to believe what you want. Tenq did not create Allah and cannot define what or how Allah is.


Allah is the greatest and nothing is like unto him.

La hawla wa la quwwata illa billah

There is no power and no strength except with Allah.

Not withstanding this: Please respond to the questions below

1. Where then is Allah according to Mohammed?
2. Can Allah enter his creation?
3. Is it true that Muslims will see Allah on the day of Judgement?
4. Is Al-Bait-al-Ma'mur a real house or not

TenQ:

Are you saying that the Qur'an verses I quoted are false?

Please, what is the correct version of Qur'an 9:31?

Correct version of the Quran is the fault biblical God's errors and mistakes which his sons are ashamed of, started and still continue to remove, review and revised?

TenQ:

No sir!

My argument is that Allah couldn't protect his word. Is that the fault of Jews and Christians?

And even Allah couldn't protect the Qur'an : or is it not true that the GOAT or is it a Sheep eat some delicious pages of the Qur'an?

I still ask where is the verse of stoning in the Qur'an?
Where is the verse of breastfeeding an adult ten times or its abrogated version of five times?

I ask you why the Hafs Qur'an is different form the Warsh Qur'an etc! Why do we have up to 30 "dialects" of the Arabic Qur'an rather than 7 or eight? Why did Uthman destroy other Qur'ans but one? Again, Qur'an 6:115 and Qur'an 18:27 have been proven false!


Sorry sir!

Uhunn! Allah is the one that did not protect the Bible verses I listed which His sons are now deleting, emoving and reviewing?

gaskiyamagana:

Correct version of the Quran is the fault biblical God's errors and mistakes which his sons are ashamed of, started and still continue to remove, review and revised?

Is this the correct version of Qur'an 9:31?
Did anyone tell you that the Bible was dictated or written by God or man?

Allah himself dictated a book that is supposed to be so simple to understand BUT, we need the scholars to tell us what Allah is saying?

I am still waiting :
At least we know that Allah cannot protect his words. Out of the supposedly 124,000 prophets of Allah, we can only find the Torah, Injeel and Zabur (oh I forgot the Qur'an). What kind of Librarian is this?
Allah is a terrible keeper of his words!

What is the correct version of Qur'an 9:31?

Ohyoudidnt:


You are free to believe what you want. Tenq did not create Allah and cannot define what or how Allah is.


Allah is the greatest and nothing is like unto him.

La hawla wa la quwwata illa billah

There is no power and no strength except with Allah.

Stop wasting your explanations, as an anti Islam ROBOTICAL PROGRAMED, no explanation will he accept until and unless he is formatted and reboot with objectivity of reasoning on Islam, not necessarily accepting it.

gaskiyamagana:

Uhunn! Allah is the one that did not protect the Bible verses I listed which His sons are now deleting, emoving and reviewing?

Does Allah have sons?
You know that Allah cannot have one because he doesn't have a girlfriend or is it consort!

Is this untrue?

TenQ:

Is this the correct version of Qur'an 9:31?
Did anyone tell you that the Bible was dictated or written by God or man?

Allah himself dictated a book that is supposed to be so simple to understand BUT, we need the scholars to tell us what Allah is saying?

I am still waiting :
At least we know that Allah cannot protect his words. Out of the supposedly 124,000 prophets of Allah, we can only find the Torah, Injeel and Zabur (oh I forgot the Qur'an). What kind of Librarian is this?
Allah is a terrible keeper of his words!

What is the correct version of Qur'an 9:31?

We are seeing how biblical God is protecting his words that his sons are deleting and removing like those I listed before!!!

gaskiyamagana:

Stop wasting your explanations, as an anti Islam ROBOTICAL PROGRAMED, no explanation will he accept until and unless he is formatted and reboot with objectivity of reasoning on Islam, not necessarily accepting it.

Unfortunately, it is you who have not being able to respond to simple questions as it betrays the inability of Allah.

Please respond to the questions below
1. Where then is Allah according to Mohammed?
2. Can Allah enter his creation?
3. Is it true that Muslims will see Allah on the day of Judgement?
4. Is Al-Bait-al-Ma'mur a real house or not

These do not require explanations but answers! LOL!

TenQ:

Does Allah have sons?
You know that Allah cannot have one because he doesn't have a girlfriend or is it consort!

Is this untrue?

Don't dodge the issue; which is biblical God is FALLIBLE, ERRORBILE AND MISTAKEABLE, very shameless and glaring that his sons are now deleting, removing and correcting the blunders he made in those verses I listed.

gaskiyamagana:

We are seeing how biblical God is protecting his words that his sons are deleting and removing like those I listed before!!!

So, you admit that Allah cannot have a son unless he has sex with a consort!?

And you are saying that Allah is powerless either to stop them from changing his words or could it be that it was the Destiny of Allah all along that is at play?

gaskiyamagana:

Stop wasting your explanations, as an anti Islam ROBOTICAL PROGRAMED, no explanation will he accept until and unless he is formatted and reboot with objectivity of reasoning on Islam, not necessarily accepting it.

Eyah until I become infected with the disease of Islam and starts a behaviour of not believing Allah nor Mohammed and not thinking but blindly trusting the consensus of Islamic scholars!?

gaskiyamagana:

Don't dodge the issue; which is biblical God is FALLIBLE, ERRORBILE AND MISTAKEABLE, very shameless and glaring that his sons are now deleting, removing and correcting the blunders he made in those verses I listed.

Can you show me any where God wrote ANY chapter of the Bible?

We say Allah is in Error in the Qur'an and you are blaming the Bible. Did the Bible make Allah wrong? Did the Bible make Allah say a things that are incorrect and are given to humans to say?

SIRTee15:

I don hear U. But Jesus saw a 12 yr old female and called her little girl.

Talitha does not necessarily mean little girl, it could mean maiden.

SIRTee15:

I'm sure the marriageable age in ancient Arabia peninsula isn't 12. I'm very sure. Na Muhammed just wanted to fulfil his immoral fantasy.
If I'm wrong point to me who else got married at 12 in your literatures.
Most 12 yrs old are flat chested, they still have nipple and not breast. They are not matured.
What can they even offer u in marriage? People that can barely take care of themselves and now U expect them to shoulder bigger responsibility.

You just show how ignorant you are of human history.

You must have lived in 6th century Arabia to have known the custom in the 6th century Arabia.

Umar Ibn-alkattab married ummKulthum when she was between age 10-12


The Quraysh of Macca called the prophet all sort of names, he was not criticized for his marriage with Aisha.

During the middle ages, Prophet Muhammad was criticized in Europe, they spawn different kind of lies against him to justify the crusades. No criticism about his marriage with Aisha.

Renaissance period, Europeans wrote lot of books about prophet Muhammad/Islam. No criticism about his marriage with Aisha.

In 1697 one of them by the name Pridaux even wrote a book to attack the Prophet, he ended up defending him regarding his marriage with Aisha.

Concerning his marriage with Aisha he wrote
"After the death of Khadijah, he married Aisha the daughter of Abubakr; Sawda and Hafsa. Aisha was 6yrs old, though he did not bed her till 2 (3) yrs after when she was fully 8(9), for it is usual in those hot climates as it is in all India which is the same clime with Arabia for women to be ripe for marriage at that age and also bear children the year following".

The question is why did this criticism of child marriage against Muhammad start in the late 19th century?

SIRTee15:

My agenda?? The question is why should she be 12?
Someone that was called woman by her big aunty.

The fact that she was called a woman prove nothing.

SIRTee15:

Instead we should ask those pushing the 12 narrative what's their agenda.

Our agenda is to expose your anachronism and hypocrisy just to criticize Muhammad. Because it is either you are ignorant of human history or you are hypocrite.

SIRTee15:

Muslims are funny sha, attaching immorality of human life to God. All in a bid to exonerate Muhammed of his immoral act.

Oga, God is the owner of life. He can take it anytime and anyhow without prior notice. God has absolute and ultimate sovereignty over his creation.


There's nothing immoral about taking back what belongs to U and it's not immoral for God to recall back the souls he sent to planet earth. He owes the soul no explanation.
God is not bound by any human moral fibre because he exist outside of such morality.

The same way we humans are not bound by the code of conduct of the animal kingdom.

I'm surprised U dont even know this. When we say Islam lacks sound theology, people will say we insulting islam

Lol. Seriously, so it doesn't matter to you if human are killed unjustly In as much as it is the God you believe in order their killings. How are you different from terrorist? They also believe they are doing God's work by killing Infidels.

What I was pointing out to you was not killing young virgin girls so they can have them. Is it moral?

SIRTee15:

Then U just threw your own Koran under the bus because the Qur'an said U can actually divorce a girl who is yet to attain menarche ie a pre teen girl can be get married and be kicked out according to your Qur'an.

Marrying a girl of 8,9 is not our doctrine.

The prophet said " It is obligatory upon a Muslim that he should listen to the ruler appointed over him and obey him whether he likes it or not, except that he is ordered to do a sinful thing"

The law in most countries now put the age of consent for girls at 18, as a Muslim it is obligatory on us to follow that.

Ohyoudidnt:


Are you scared to share text of your scripture or ashamed?

I don't think you have anything to say about the Lord's prayer

What is the real total number of houris you'll have sex with in aljanat? 2, 72 or 100 virgins?

IslamVIRGINS:


I don't think you have anything to say about the Lord's prayer

What is the real total number of houris you'll have sex with in aljanat? 2, 72 or 100 virgins?

You don't think but are not clairvoyant or are you? Write out the text then we'll see.

TenQ:

Not withstanding this: Please respond to the questions below

1. Where then is Allah according to Mohammed?
2. Can Allah enter his creation?
3. Is it true that Muslims will see Allah on the day of Judgement?
4. Is Al-Bait-al-Ma'mur a real house or not

What's the relation to the Tauhid ?

Ohyoudidnt:


What's the relation to the Tauhid ?

It has every thing to do with Taoheed.

Please respond to the questions below

1. Where then is Allah according to Mohammed?
2. Can Allah enter his creation?
3. Is it true that Muslims will see Allah on the day of Judgement?
4. Is Al-Bait-al-Ma'mur a real house or not

Are you afraid?

TenQ:

It has every thing to do with Taoheed.

Please respond to the questions below

1. Where then is Allah according to Mohammed?
2. Can Allah enter his creation?
3. Is it true that Muslims will see Allah on the day of Judgement?
4. Is Al-Bait-al-Ma'mur a real house or not

Are you afraid?

These questions have been asked by you repeatedly in and out of this subject.

Pretty much like a broken record I'm afraid. You have been answered by different people but you always go around with these same sets of straws.

I'll pass thank you.