not to mention that they are being recruited by the terrorists themselves.

and this is England's fault?

nobody said it was England's fault.
the point is: the youths in this scenario didn't become terrorists by reading the koran. they were recruited and taken advantage of in the name of religion by the extremists who saw them vulnerable.
and the point of this is: islam is not to blame. rather, other factors that exist within the society/cultures are.
if it was just a matter of religion, you still haven't explained to me why yoruba muslims aren't killing "innocent" christians.

@Davidylan

I dont have a koran in my library. I do have a bible, and it is enough of an inducement to violence.

Hopefully the Palestinians can finally be removed from God's Promised Land to the Jews.

WesleyanA:

when was the last muslim suicide bombing in these countries? and how frequent do they occur?
just because the media exaggerates the extent and is biased against Islam doesn't mean that you should make claims as such.
what percentage of muslims do you think (in your assesment) are suicide bombers?

You probably dont know how much work goes into protecting your borders and keeping terrorists out so you can sit at your computer in peace while you expose your ignorance. Where were you when the Germans arrested a set of highprofile terrorists planning attacks in the US less than 2 months ago?

WesleyanA:

we are talking of cultures and religions are we not? rather than events.
most religions are ancient but are still practiced today. does that mean that christianity should be modernized?
unless you're saying that muslim countries should follow a non-theocracy like the westerners and adopt a secular form of govt which contains no religion. This is what i support.

You're begining to bore me with ur round about reasoning expected of a child who still uses a feeding bottle. What has forms of government got to do with this? Egypt is a democracy (at least that's what they claim), Pakistan is a democracy (so they say), Iran pretends to be a democracy, Syria is not a theocracy. . . Lebanon is a democracy, even the palestinians pretend to be a democracy too . . . so what is this nonsense about muslim nations adopting non-theocratic governments?

WesleyanA:

the point is: the youths in this scenario didn't become terrorists by reading the koran. they were recruited and taken advantage of in the name of religion by the extremists who saw them vulnerable.
and the point of this is: islam is not to blame. rather, other factors that exist within the society/cultures are.
if it was just a matter of religion, you still haven't explained to me why yoruba muslims aren't killing "innocent" christians.

I don hear, islam is not to blame chikena. Are you happy now?

Did you read Osama's Sept 2007 letter posted by Iman? Read it and then tell me islam is not to blame.

hello i couldnt find the setting for motorola l6 using an mtn wap can anyone help me out

hello pls stop this muslim stuff i need this wap for my forex trading online

Phew!!!!!

When will I go thru all these posts



@ bitryhyme
Laugh ma ass off.
U need to go to the proper thread

@Davidylan

Eureka!!!!!!!!!!!

Religion does not produce fanatics, but fanatics produce religion (of violence)

That is exactly what I do not understand. Anytime stuff goes down guys like bellotti will start telling You that these are not muslims. Who are these guys for heaven's sake? I am not sure if bellotti is aware of the menace of the almajiris in the north. These guys are supposed to be studying the koran , day in day out, under the tutorship of one mallam. That is all they do, apart from running errands for the mallam's wives, Koran day and night. It is these same guys that make up the core of the thugs used to unleash mayhem in the name iof Allah. Yet You say they are not muslims.   These guys probably observe the 5 pillars of Islam more than u do, bellotti; so please do not say they are not muslims.

Nice post by Uche2nna.

I'll summarise.

1. A zealous Christian would study the word and strive to be Christ like.
2.A zealous Muslim is an incident waiting to happen.

If indeed the KOran is all about peace,how come those who study it day and night like the almajiris,terrorists like Usama end up wanting to kill ?

How can a medication meant to cure a headache,end up with a side effect of cancer?

davidylan:

You probably don't know how much work goes into protecting your borders and keeping terrorists out so you can sit at your computer in peace while you expose your ignorance. Where were you when the Germans arrested a set of highprofile terrorists planning attacks in the US less than 2 months ago?


I don hear, islam is not to blame chikena. Are you happy now?

Did you read Osama's Sept 2007 letter posted by Iman? Read it and then tell me islam is not to blame.

lol. you're funny.
let me see, you're a republican. lol.
muslims are scared to bomb us because of the police at the borders? LMAO. why do you even try?


Osama's views doesn't represent the millions of muslims throughout the globe. just as the catholic pope's views don't represent the millions of christians' around he globe.

You're begining to bore me with your round about reasoning expected of a child who still uses a feeding bottle. What has forms of government got to do with this? Egypt is a democracy (at least that's what they claim), Pakistan is a democracy (so they say), Iran pretends to be a democracy, Syria is not a theocracy. . . Lebanon is a democracy, even the palestinians pretend to be a democracy too . . . so what is this nonsense about muslim nations adopting non-theocratic governments?

secular govts
ex.where women won't be forced by the govt to cover their faces, people won't be forced to follow religious rules etc.
"pretend" doesn't make it real.
i'm talking about "real" secular govts. like the US and britain.


anyways, i'm off to go study for my psych. exam tomorrow (if any of the extra info matters).
point is, if islam is to blame, you still haven't explained to me why yoruba muslims aren't at war with yoruba christians (or even why senegalese muslims aren't waging war in christian communities in neighboring countries). i'll leave you to ponder that till tomorrow or even next week (since i don't have much time for this). lol

nwando:

If indeed the KOran is all about peace,how come those who study it day and night like the almajiris,terrorists like Usama end up wanting to kill ?

How can a medication meant to cure a headache,end up with a side effect of cancer?

no religion is all about peace.
even christianity isn't all about peace.

it all depends on the individual believer.
there are thousands of people who study koran day and night in mosques all over the world too bad only the few popular names of muslim religious fanatics are known to you.

goodnight!

WesleyanA:

muslims are scared to bomb us because of the police at the borders? LMAO. why do you even try?

Help me see wahala. Which kain block head be this? Muslims are scared to bomb you or your security service are working round the clock, spying on our phone calls, contemplating racial profiling at airports, paranoid airport searches and forcing all Americans to obtain visas before they can now travel to Canada and Mexico all to protect you from muslims desperate to lay down their lives to take that of just one american?

Is this girl for real?

naijaking1:

Osama's views doesn't represent the millions of muslims throughout the globe. just as the catholic pope's views don't represent the millions of christians' around he globe.

bla bla bla. . . we've heard this excuse one too many times. The problem is try as you may Osama's views certainly represent the views of SOME muslims around the globe who would die to kill you and me.
To compare osama to the pope is to expose your low capacity for reasoning, the pope is not calling on anyone to convert to catholicism on pain of death. Go read Osama's letter again and produce the one you think the pope must have written too.

naijaking1:

secular govts
ex.where women won't be forced by the govt to cover their faces, people won't be forced to follow religious rules etc.
"pretend" doesn't make it real.
i'm talking about "real" secular govts. like the US and britain.

Go ask the mullahs why they force their women to dress like servants. Is it the fault of the US and britain that the muslim countries do not have "real secular" governments?

Infact i give up! WesleyanA is a case in stubborn denial, ignorance and immature thought process.

nwando:

If indeed the KOran is all about peace,how come those who study it day and night like the almajiris,terrorists like Usama end up wanting to kill ?

How can a medication meant to cure a headache,end up with a side effect of cancer?

Tell me you've not heard of the 72 virgins promised to those morons if the kill an infidel. If that is not the most stupidest this ever

WesleyanA:

no religion is all about peace.even christianity isn't all about peace.

it all depends on the individual believer.
there are thousands of people who study koran day and night in mosques all over the world too bad only the few popular names of muslim religious fanatics are known to you.

goodnight!

I find it difficult to respond to someone at a much lower thinking level.
have you read the claims of Christ and the claims of Mohammed?

Do you talk just because you have a mouth and must say something no matter how immature?
How do thousands of peaceful muslims help me when tens of thousands of Nigerian Christians and non Muslims worldwide are continually slaughtered at allah's altar without a cause?

Or does it not bother you that something as innocent as a cartoon in Denmark would cause a Muslim in Bangladesh to kill a non Muslim fellow kinsman.

You have a brain,please use it!

@Davidylan

if you concede that it is only 'some muslims' that are willing to do these dastardly things,
then surely you must also concede that their resort to violence is a matter of personal choice
rather than singularly rooted in the religion.

ocho cinco:

@Davidylan

if you concede that it is only 'some muslims' that are willing to do these dastardly things,
then surely you must also concede that their resort to violence is a matter of personal choice
rather than singularly rooted in the religion.

The fact is that all the things they do today,were done by Muhammad in his day.
The true Muslims are like Muhammad.
They kill!

Men, I do really like to react to all these intersting posts but my department is in a celebratory mood. Nobel Prize in medicine for one of our profs. Big party and everybody is getting drunk. Get back to the posts later.


@ Wes
U raised a valid point in ur last post  and plis dont mind the teeny bopper label ( ) . I really admire how u think given ur age.

which backyard school is that?

Univ of Uttah i think?

I heard something like that at work today.

ocho cinco:

@Davidylan

if you concede that it is only 'some muslims' that are willing to do these dastardly things,
then surely you must also concede that their resort to violence is a matter of personal choice
rather than singularly rooted in the religion.

If the violence were isolated cases then we could afford to assume that it is a matter of personal choice. But when it happens in Sudan, England, Indonesia, Australia, Iran . . . then you know that the only link to all these is religion.

nwando:

The fact is that all the things they do today,were done by Muhammad in his day.
The true Muslims are like Muhammad.
They kill!

Obviously there is a lot wrong with your 'true muslim' label.

I am sure you are aware that there are significant schisms and conflicts within Islam and the interpretations of the Koran.

The organisation of muslim majority nations are also varied from Africa to Europe and the Middle East.

So I am sure those whom you have left out from the true muslim category would be no doubt offended.

Uche2nna:

Men, I do really like to react to all these intersting posts but my department is in a celebratory mood. Nobel Prize in medicine for one of our profs. Big party and everybody is getting drunk. Get back to the posts later.

the fellow who discovered the use of Knock-out mice?

ocho cinco:

Obviously there is a lot wrong with your 'true muslim' label.

I am sure you are aware that there are significant schisms and conflicts within Islam and the interpretations of the Koran.

The organisation of muslim majority nations are also varied from Africa to Europe and the Middle East.

So I am sure those whom you have left out from the true muslim category would be no doubt offended.

shall we now say that some true Muslims like Mohammed kill innocent citizens and some don't?
now we're back to square one.

davidylan:

If the violence were isolated cases then we could afford to assume that it is a matter of personal choice. But when it happens in Sudan, England, Indonesia, Australia, Iran . . . then you know that the only link to all these is religion.

you've answered the question.
In Egypt,Mauritania phillipines and Nigeria we have these isloated cases.
what is isolation when we have a pandemic?

davidylan:

If the violence were isolated cases then we could afford to assume that it is a matter of personal choice. But when it happens in Sudan, England, Indonesia, Australia, Iran . . . then you know that the only link to all these is religion.

But considering the size of the Muslim population and the number of terrorist attacks, I am confident enough to categorise them as isolated compared to for
example the call for nationalism around the world.

Indonesia is the worlds most populous Islamic country yet it has suffered only one significant terrorist attack in Bali.

Turkey stands right at the intersection of the West and the Islamist countries, yet over there the greatest threat to the State has been the Kurdish Resistance. The shared religion of ethnic Turks and Kurds has not been able to assuage nationalist sentiments.

That says a lot I guess about the strength of Islam on its followers.

ocho cinco:

Turkey stands right at the intersection of the West and the Islamist countries, yet over there the greatest threat to the State has been the Kurdish Resistance. The shared religion of ethnic Turks and Kurds has not been able to assuage nationalist sentiments.

Says more about Turkey's quest to join the EU. The arabs are no fools, they know that one terror attack in Turkey will officially end suffocate its attempts to join the EU.

ocho cinco:

But considering the size of the Muslim population and the number of terrorist attacks, I am confident enough to categorise them as isolated compared to for
example the call for nationalism around the world.

Indonesia is the worlds most populous Islamic country yet it has suffered only one significant terrorist attack in Bali.

Turkey stands right at the intersection of the West and the Islamist countries, yet over there the greatest threat to the State has been the Kurdish Resistance. The shared religion of ethnic Turks and Kurds has not been able to assuage nationalist sentiments.

That says a lot I guess about the strength of Islam on its followers.

Terrorists brought death to Indonesia's Bali paradise for the second time in three years, as blasts killed at least 26 people at two resort spots packed with tourists.

The blasts struck the seaside area of Jimbaran Bay and the bar and shopping hub of Kuta, 30 kilometers (19 miles) away at about 8 p.m. Saturday night (8 a.m. ET).

In addition to the 26 fatalities, hospital officials said 102 people were wounded. One of those who died was a 16-year-old Australian boy, officials said, while South Koreans, Americans, Japanese and Britons were among those wounded.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/10/01/bali.blasts/index.html

It seems increasingly likely, especially after the October 2002 Bali bombing. Experts say other terrorist attacks within Indonesia—including a December 2000 church-bombing campaign, the August 2001 bombing of a Jakarta shopping mall by a Malaysian national, the August 2003 bombing outside the Marriot Hotel in Jakarta, and the October 2005 suicide bombings in Bali—may also be connected with international terrorism. Since the September 11 attacks, U.S. and Asian officials have warned that bin Laden’s organization was maneuvering to establish itself in Indonesiaand perhaps reconstitute its infrastructure there.


http://www.cfr.org/publication/9361/

now ocho cinco are you convinced indonesia is just like the rest of them?

U.S. officials also worry about Laskar Jihad, a violent group aiming to eliminate Christians from the Moluccas and Sulawesi Island and establish an Islamist state.

Nwando, you try. All these na free education. If Ocho Cinco likes let him carry his bag and go live in Bali. He can brief us on how peaceful his muslim brethren are later.

The reports you hear about Indonesia and co are the ones that affect Westerners, go and ask about the internal repression and other acts that go on against minority faiths/beliefs.

@ Wesleyana

majority of the muslims in France are NOT blacks from North Africa, I think your geography is a little off

the majority of the muslims come from Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia and so on which are predominantly Arab. The black muslims are from Mali, Cote d'Ivoire, Senegal and the like

@ ocho cinco

the greatest threat to the state of Turkey, I respectfully submit, is not the Kurdish Question (though major).

The greatest threat has been in the fight between maintaining a secular state and a return to an Islamic one - issues such as wearing head scarves, a former fundamentalist islamic leader becoming the president, and such have dominated the issue.

The military wants to maintain secularism while some other interests want a Islamic leadership.

As I said earlier, the only muslims not caught up in this craze and madness are the ones who have deviated slightly and tempered the original message of Islam with modernism. The ones that havent are locked in deep internal strife on varying levels.

on the issue of 'islamic government ' or 'theocracy'

Indonesia has the highest number of muslims in the world , yet it is democratic, the second largest muslim population is in india, and yes you guessed it, they are democratic. The tiny middle-eastern trouble makers (for the most part) are the ones causing the havoc all over the place.