benji93:
Yes, he should normally be hitting that.But in the heat of the moment, when you are down by 1, the pressure is just up there Curry misses wide open threes too. If you do not want such a thing to happen, how about you try not to get it get to that point? With 2 super stars, i suppose that shouldn't be too much to ask. To minimize the damage, the narrative will then be, they actually had a super star in Jimmy butler. . I mean this series on paper was was looking like a gentleman sweep at worst.

Me I just pray they can somehow steal Game 6. I want to see these LeNomad fanboys sweat

nice one guys, I rarely comment on this thread, tlll its playoffs or finals.


but God wouldn't forgive me if I don't clear this up.

The arguments here between A40 and
WeissVonner.

The only part A40 gets it quite wrong is that "Lebron isn't as bad as he depicts him".


but on 90% of the arguments, A40 is spot on.


Guys Lebron may be the 2nd or 3rd best ever after Jordan.
but definitely not on same level.


Jordan was ahead of his time.

A40 has said it all. *The most important and hardest stat in the game is SCORING*

Assist, rebounds, triple-doubles and even Defence is nothing compared to scoring.


When Jordan came into the league in the 80's, guards(point&shooting) had no business scoring as much as Jordan did.

back in the 80's and early 90's, whenever u look into the 1st 20 highest scorers, 80% of them where centers and power-forwards.


Jordan changed the game. And he did it for his first 10years of being in the NBA for 10consecutive years.


The closest to him for those 10years in terms of Scoring prolifically were Ewing, David Robinson, Shaq, Kareem Abdul Jabber, Karl Malone and perhaps other bigs/forwards I can't remember right now.


Jordan came Into the league as a slender guard, not even physical or muscle-equipped and got to the hole better that all these guy for 10years.

all he had was a very good leap and skillset to dominate.


That alone is the most iconic shift I have seen in any sport.

Do not think it was just his leaps that took him to that level of scoring.

Dominic Wilkins and Clyde drexler had equivalent leaping abilities, but could they dominate as much as MJ? NEVER.



Then talking about the
second 3peat, from 1996 to 1998, I watched almost every finals games in real time.

when i say Real-time, I mean *REAL TIME*


Pls you guys are over exaggerating Dennis Rodman's significance to MJ.


in those back to back finals between the bulls and Utah, Dennis rodman with alllllll his rebounding prowess, he was hidden/covered and buried in those games against Utah.


if u say Dennis disturbed Shaq, when bulls played Orlando in the 96 finals, I can sit Down with u and agree.

but against "karl Malone", against Utah are u guys okay.
I love Dennis, but I cried for him against Utah for their back to back finals.
pls 70% of the reasons bulls won those last 2finals were all becos of Jordan.


Are u guys okay?

u are mentioning Dennis.


God bless the mind of A40 in here. he may not be 100% the best analyst or basket-ball historian, but he is a genius and we should all listen and learn whenever he speaks.


A40 is 100% spot-on as regards the kind of offensive/scoring help Jordan got from Pippen.


imagine Jordan's number 2 scorer averaged less than 20points in his career. where in the world has that ever happened in a championship team that depended on SCORING to win games.

Do u feel me??



if you say it happened with the piston's when they last won the title, I would tell u "that pistons depended on defence/physical play to dominate"



But for a team to win 6 tittles in 8years and the team for all those 6titles were always In the first-to-third in terms of "most points per game", and their second best scorer can't easily score 20points in 5 consecutive games, then you guys should loooooook very very deeply into the MJ-factor.


Then u guys are talking about Magic Johnson killing Jordan until Pippen came to bail MJ out.
using that particular series/occurrence to downplay MJ's game.


Are u guys okay? (with all due respect)


In the first place, Jordan had no business guarding magic.

Magic was a point guard in a power forwards body.
Its a physical mismatch.


Jordan brought the kind of entertainment the game had never seen before him.

Before Jordan, the 2most exciting players were bird and magic. Then a bit of isiah Thomas, due to his ball handles the game had never seen.


Then Jordan came into the league 84 and consistently was on TOP10 play of the day with highflying moves, hangtime layups and dunks.


While the whole world was still stuck with all those bird, magic and isiah's moves on the ground, Jordan took all that to the air.

I wasnt told this. I witnessed the iconic shift in realtime.

Also permit me to tell you how great Jordan's stardom was back then: Jordan was the only star(black or white) that came close to popularity and glamour of Michael Jackson.

Not even Madonna or bill Cosby or opera Winfrey came as close to the popularity of Jackson in the late 80's to 90's.

We are talking about someone who conquered basketball with 3chips, got demotivated, retired, came back like 2years later with only one teammate left from where he last played, dominated again and won 3chips.

Mind you, the game had changed when Jordan came back. No one ever believed that the bulls would win a chip before Orlando magic or Miami heat.

These two teams played very very fluent basketball.

Ohhh God, u needed to watch Orlando in the mid90's, or Miami in 96.

These teams had like 4players that could singlehandedly destroy any team.

The bulls had no business sweeping Orlando in 96 or even defeating miami 4-1 in 97 with Tim hardarway, Dan majerley(perhaps I got spelling wrong) and Alonzo morning.


The Miami heat at the time is the closest I saw to the recent Warriors.

They could shoot and had sooo much multiple plays to kill any team.

Yet, bulls beat Miami 4-1, its like saying Lebron should have beaten the warriors without Durant, with such a margin.
miami was that efficient.

The kinds of teams the bulls&Jordan made look so ordinary, my God we are yet to see such again.

pls forgive me, I don't have strength for aggressive arguments.
I just enjoy coming here to learn from u all. but my conscience wdnt permit/forgive me if i stay silent.

u guys all rock.

but get one thing clear,
Jordan isn't just the goat. He is a god.

nairamaniac:
nice one guys, I rarely comment on this thread, tlll its playoffs or finals.


but God wouldn't forgive me if I don't clear this up.

The arguments here between A40 and
WeissVonner.

The only part A40 gets it quite wrong is that "Lebron isn't as bad as he depicts him".


but on 90% of the arguments, A40 is spot on.


Guys Lebron may be the 2nd or 3rd best ever after Jordan.
but definitely not on same level.


Jordan was ahead of his time.

A40 has said it all. *The most important and hardest stat in the game is SCORING*

Assist, rebounds, triple-doubles and even Defence is nothing compared to scoring.


When Jordan came into the league in the 80's, guards(point&shooting) had no business scoring as much as Jordan did.

back in the 80's and early 90's, whenever u look into the 1st 20 highest scorers, 80% of them where centers and power-forwards.


Jordan changed the game. And he did it for his first 10years of being in the NBA for 10consecutive years.


The closest to him for those 10years in terms of Scoring prolifically were Ewing, David Robinson, Shaq, Kareem Abdul Jabber, Karl Malone and perhaps other bigs/forwards I can't remember right now.


Jordan came Into the league as a slender guard, not even physical or muscle-equipped and got to the hole better that all these guy for 10years.

all he had was a very good leap and skillset to dominate.


That alone is the most iconic shift I have seen in any sport.

Do not think it was just his leaps that took him to that level of scoring.

Dominic Wilkins and Clyde drexler had equivalent leaping abilities, but could they dominate as much as MJ? NEVER.



Then talking about the 2
second 3peat, from 1996 to 1998, I watched almost every finals games in real time.

when i say Real-time, I mean *REAL TIME*


Pls you guys are over exaggerating Dennis Rodman's significance to MJ.


in those back to back finals between the bulls and Utah, Dennis rodman with alllllll his rebounding prowess were hidden/covered and buried in those games against Utah.


if u say Dennis disturbed Shaq, when bulls played Orlando in the 96 finals, I can sit Down with u and agree.

but against "karl Malone", against Utah are u guys okay.
I love Dennis, but I cried for him against Utah for their back to back finals.
pls 70% of the reasons bulls won those last 2finals were all becos of Jordan.


Are u guys okay?

u are mentioning Dennis.


God bless the mind of A40 in here. he may not be 100% the best analyst or basket-ball historian, but he is a genius and we should all listen and learn whenever he speaks.


A40 is 100% spot-on as regards the kind of offensive/scoring help Jordan got from Pippen.


imagine Jordan's number 2 scorer averaged less than 20points in his career. where in the world has that ever happened in a championship team that depended on SCORING to win games.

Do u feel me??



if you say it happened with the piston's when they last won the title, I would tell u "that pistons depended on defence/physical play to dominate"



But for a team to win 6 tittles in 8years and the team for all those 6titles were always In the first-to-third in terms of "most points per game", and their second best scorer can't score 25points in 10 consecutive games, then you guys should loooooook very very deeply into the MJ-factor.


Then u guys are talking about Magic Johnson killing Jordan until Pippen came to bail MJ out.
using that particular series/occurrence to downplay MJ's game.


Are u guys okay? (with all due respect)


In the first place, Jordan had no business guarding magic.

Magic was a point guard in a power forwards body.
Its a physical mismatch.


Jordan brought the kind of entertainment the game had never seen before him.

Before Jordan, the 2most exciting players were bird and magic. Then a bit of isiah Thomas, due to his ball handles the game had never seen.


Then Jordan came into the league 84 and consistently was on TOP10 play of the day with highflying moves, hangtime layups and dunks.


While the whole world was still stuck with all those bird, magic and isiah's moves on the ground, Jordan took all that to the air.

I wasnt told this. I witnessed the iconic shift in realtime.

Also permit me to tell you how great Jordan's stardom was back then: Jordan was the only star(black or white) that came close to popularity and glamour of Michael Jackson.

Not even Madonna or bill Cosby or opera Winfrey came as close to the popularity of Jackson in the late 80's to 90's.

We are talking about someone who conquered basketball with 3chips, got demotivated, retired, came back like 2years later with only one teammate left from where he last played, dominated again and won 3chips.

Mind you, the game had changed when Jordan came back. No one ever believed that the bulls would win a chip before Orlando magic or Miami heat.

These two teams played very very fluent basketball.

Ohhh God, u needed to watch Orlando in the mid90's, or Miami in 96.

These teams had like 4players that could singlehandedly destroy any team.

The bulls had no business sweeping Orlando in 96 or even defeating miami 4-1 in 97 with Tim hardarway, Dan majerley(perhaps I got spelling wrong) and Alonzo morning.


The Miami heat at the time is the closest I saw to the recent Warriors.

They could shoot and had sooo much multiple plays to kill any team.

Yet, bulls beat Miami 4-1, its like saying Lebron should have beaten the warriors without Durant, with such a margin.
miami was that efficient.

The kinds of teams the bulls&Jordan made look so ordinary, my God we are yet to see such again.

pls forgive me, I don't have strength for aggressive arguments.
I just enjoy coming here to learn from u all. but my conscience wdnt permit/forgive me if i stay silent.

u guys all rock.

but get one thing clear,
Jordan isn't just the goat. He is a god.

Wow. I'm speechless but I just have to ask how you were able to beat the Spambot on this page with literally the longest post I've ever seen.

It's a thankless task but let's keep enlightening these people swept by recency bias and those that started following basketball in 2012.

The 96 Magic that won 60 games with Shaq missing 28 btw.

benji93:
I mean a superstar-less team.

What's the definition of superstar? Is the superstar tag given based on reputation or performance? You can call Giannis a superstar, who couldn't take his team to the finals on two occasions even though they were favourites. But you can't call Jimmy Butler a superstar, someone who took his team to the finals and is busy dropping 40 point triple doubles. Even Steph or Kawhi have never dropped a 40 point triple double in the finals. And don't even get me started about how Steph comes up smaller in the playoffs than the regular season, just like una MVP Giannis. Those are who you call superstars abi?

benji93:
Yes, he should normally be hitting that.But in the heat of the moment, when you are down by 1, the pressure is just up there Curry misses wide open threes too. If you do not want such a thing to happen, how about you try not to get it get to that point? With 2 super stars, i suppose that shouldn't be too much to ask. To minimize the damage, the narrative will then be, they actually had a super star in Jimmy butler. . I mean this series on paper was was looking like a gentleman sweep at worst.

All this one na okoto you dey talk. A team that gentleman swept Giannis and dispatched the Celtics quite easily is nor a joke. If dem like make dem no get superstar, if dem like make dem get 5 g-league players, the bottom line is that they're there because they are the best team in the east.

nairamaniac:
nice one guys, I rarely comment on this thread, tlll its playoffs or finals.


but God wouldn't forgive me if I don't clear this up.

The arguments here between A40 and
WeissVonner.

The only part A40 gets it quite wrong is that "Lebron isn't as bad as he depicts him".


but on 90% of the arguments, A40 is spot on.


Guys Lebron may be the 2nd or 3rd best ever after Jordan.
but definitely not on same level.


Jordan was ahead of his time.

A40 has said it all. *The most important and hardest stat in the game is SCORING*

Assist, rebounds, triple-doubles and even Defence is nothing compared to scoring.


When Jordan came into the league in the 80's, guards(point&shooting) had no business scoring as much as Jordan did.

back in the 80's and early 90's, whenever u look into the 1st 20 highest scorers, 80% of them where centers and power-forwards.


Jordan changed the game. And he did it for his first 10years of being in the NBA for 10consecutive years.


The closest to him for those 10years in terms of Scoring prolifically were Ewing, David Robinson, Shaq, Kareem Abdul Jabber, Karl Malone and perhaps other bigs/forwards I can't remember right now.


Jordan came Into the league as a slender guard, not even physical or muscle-equipped and got to the hole better that all these guy for 10years.

all he had was a very good leap and skillset to dominate.


That alone is the most iconic shift I have seen in any sport.

Do not think it was just his leaps that took him to that level of scoring.

Dominic Wilkins and Clyde drexler had equivalent leaping abilities, but could they dominate as much as MJ? NEVER.



Then talking about the 2
second 3peat, from 1996 to 1998, I watched almost every finals games in real time.

when i say Real-time, I mean *REAL TIME*


Pls you guys are over exaggerating Dennis Rodman's significance to MJ.


in those back to back finals between the bulls and Utah, Dennis rodman with alllllll his rebounding prowess were hidden/covered and buried in those games against Utah.


if u say Dennis disturbed Shaq, when bulls played Orlando in the 96 finals, I can sit Down with u and agree.

but against "karl Malone", against Utah are u guys okay.
I love Dennis, but I cried for him against Utah for their back to back finals.
pls 70% of the reasons bulls won those last 2finals were all becos of Jordan.


Are u guys okay?

u are mentioning Dennis.


God bless the mind of A40 in here. he may not be 100% the best analyst or basket-ball historian, but he is a genius and we should all listen and learn whenever he speaks.


A40 is 100% spot-on as regards the kind of offensive/scoring help Jordan got from Pippen.


imagine Jordan's number 2 scorer averaged less than 20points in his career. where in the world has that ever happened in a championship team that depended on SCORING to win games.

Do u feel me??



if you say it happened with the piston's when they last won the title, I would tell u "that pistons depended on defence/physical play to dominate"



But for a team to win 6 tittles in 8years and the team for all those 6titles were always In the first-to-third in terms of "most points per game", and their second best scorer can't easily score 20points in 5 consecutive games, then you guys should loooooook very very deeply into the MJ-factor.


Then u guys are talking about Magic Johnson killing Jordan until Pippen came to bail MJ out.
using that particular series/occurrence to downplay MJ's game.


Are u guys okay? (with all due respect)


In the first place, Jordan had no business guarding magic.

Magic was a point guard in a power forwards body.
Its a physical mismatch.


Jordan brought the kind of entertainment the game had never seen before him.

Before Jordan, the 2most exciting players were bird and magic. Then a bit of isiah Thomas, due to his ball handles the game had never seen.


Then Jordan came into the league 84 and consistently was on TOP10 play of the day with highflying moves, hangtime layups and dunks.


While the whole world was still stuck with all those bird, magic and isiah's moves on the ground, Jordan took all that to the air.

I wasnt told this. I witnessed the iconic shift in realtime.

Also permit me to tell you how great Jordan's stardom was back then: Jordan was the only star(black or white) that came close to popularity and glamour of Michael Jackson.

Not even Madonna or bill Cosby or opera Winfrey came as close to the popularity of Jackson in the late 80's to 90's.

We are talking about someone who conquered basketball with 3chips, got demotivated, retired, came back like 2years later with only one teammate left from where he last played, dominated again and won 3chips.

Mind you, the game had changed when Jordan came back. No one ever believed that the bulls would win a chip before Orlando magic or Miami heat.

These two teams played very very fluent basketball.

Ohhh God, u needed to watch Orlando in the mid90's, or Miami in 96.

These teams had like 4players that could singlehandedly destroy any team.

The bulls had no business sweeping Orlando in 96 or even defeating miami 4-1 in 97 with Tim hardarway, Dan majerley(perhaps I got spelling wrong) and Alonzo morning.


The Miami heat at the time is the closest I saw to the recent Warriors.

They could shoot and had sooo much multiple plays to kill any team.

Yet, bulls beat Miami 4-1, its like saying Lebron should have beaten the warriors without Durant, with such a margin.
miami was that efficient.

The kinds of teams the bulls&Jordan made look so ordinary, my God we are yet to see such again.

pls forgive me, I don't have strength for aggressive arguments.
I just enjoy coming here to learn from u all. but my conscience wdnt permit/forgive me if i stay silent.

u guys all rock.

but get one thing clear,
Jordan isn't just the goat. He is a god.

I would have agreed with you if Bill Russell isn't a top 5 all time player and Dennis Rodman isn't a hall of famer

Jerry West and George Gervin were excellent scores before Jordan, so I don't know what you're saying. They had a 5 scoring titles between them.

Magic Johnson averaged less than 20 in his career. So your point about a second superstar never averaging less than 20 on a championship team apart from Pippen is invalid

A40:
Wow. I'm speechless but I just have to ask how you were able to beat the Spambot on this page with literally the longest post I've ever seen.

hahahhahhahah. of all things to wonder. I havent posted anything here in like 2 seasons now.

steady986:

I would have agreed with you if Bill Russell isn't a top 5 all time player and Dennis Rodman isn't a hall of famer

pls elucidate.

what does Russell and dennis have to do with my post? I noticed u highlighted my statement that as regards to scoring being the hardest thing/stat.

do u disagree??

nairamaniac:



hahahhahhahah. of all things to wonder. I havent posted anything here in like 2 seasons now.

I get banned for posts half that length. I observed that you have been off for sometime too. Welcome back

A40:
I get banned for posts half that length. I observed that you have been off for sometime too. Welcome back

I come here very frequently, but I enjoy reading and learning rather than posting much.

I never left.

This thread excites me as much as ESPN.com and nba-app

steady986:

I would have agreed with you if Bill Russell isn't a top 5 all time player and Dennis Rodman isn't a hall of famer

Jerry West and George Gervin were excellent scores before Jordan, so I don't know what you're saying. The had a 5 scoring titles between them.

I was a big fan of iceman Gervin, yes he could score so easily. but how many guards in his time had their team conceding scoring-task that much to them?

nairamaniac:


pls elucidate.

what does Russell and dennis have to do with my post? I noticed u highlighted my statement that as regards to scoring being the hardest thing/stat.

do u disagree??

I addressed a few more things in that post, you can go back to it

nairamaniac:


I come here very frequently, but I enjoy reading and learning rather than posting much.

I never left.

This thread excites me as much as ESPN.com and nba-app

Fair enough. Keep educating these people every now and then. It's tiring. I was on Twitter where someone was comparing DeRozan to Clyde Drexler.

Maybe they thought the Glide in his name was for decoration. Arguably the greatest transition scorer of all-time. This new generation are so loud and yet they know so little

A40:
Fair enough. Keep educating these people every now and then. It's tiring. I was on Twitter where someone was comparing DeRozan to Clyde Drexler.

Maybe they thought the Glide in his name was for decoration. Arguably the greatest transition scorer of all-time. This new generation are so loud and yet they know so little

can u imagine? is derozan better than prime Iverson or MITch Richmonds.

The only shooting guard better than Clyde since Clyde should be Kobe.


And Jordan overshadowed Clyde thruout their careers

steady986:

I addressed a few more things in that post, you can go back to it

but hope u do agree that during Jordan's time, especially from 84 to 90, u hardly see guards getting such opportunities to score.

Sir, I watched basketball in real time in the late 80's and early 90's. There was no dstv then, but analogue satalite. Mesh or glass.

I dont depend on google or stats when I say these things.


IN REAL TIME.


we used to stay awake for a program called *THIS WEEK ON THE NBA*.

It was shown on cnn and canal france back then.


I held my pen and wrote down stats in a book back then.

Jordan was usually the only guard in the TOP 5 in scoring. And it stayed like that for like 5 to 10years of his time in the league.

The funny thing is that he scored so much and created most of his shots. whereas the centers and power-forwards were being assisted by the other 3 to 4 players.

nairamaniac:


can u imagine? is derozan better than prime Iverson or MITch Richmonds.

The only shooting guard better than Clyde since Clyde should be Kobe.


And Jordan overshadowed Clyde thruout their careers

You're kidding right? I've been sceptical about most of what you've been saying since you started posting today but this one right here got my attention. Iverson and Wade were definitely better

Giannis is a Superstar obviously has asterisk. . At least at the moment. Besides. Besides superstardom is a title that's conferred based on dominance over a period of time. I am talking about at least 2/3 years. If you can not deliver it through incredible regular season performances, then you better get to the finals and win it. The latter is how Kawhi made into superstardom. If you have a different criteria for measuring superstardom, that's ok. Remind me again when Butler had been this assertive. If he was 24/25, i could say oh, he was learning how to win in his younger years. And please neither Curry nor Kawhi- who just had a choke tag placed on his playoff career- is the subject of discussion here. Neither of them is placed at the same level as Lebron. The discussion is about your so-called GOAT. You allow a guy who has at best pulled off a few star performances in his career to attain superstardom in a series against you? That's unacceptable. . Wake me up when this dream is over.

steady986:

What's the definition of superstar? Is the superstar tag given based on reputation or performance? You can call Giannis a superstar, who couldn't take his team to the finals on two occasions even though they were favourites. But you can't call Jimmy Butler a superstar, someone who took his team to the finals and is busy dropping 40 point triple doubles. Even Steph or Kawhi have never dropped a 40 point triple double in the finals. And don't even get me started about how Steph comes up smaller in the playoffs than the regular season, just like una MVP Giannis. Those are who you call superstars abi?

benji93:
Giannis is a Superstar obviously has asterisk. . At least at the moment. Besides. Besides superstardom is a title that's conferred based on dominance over a period of time. I am talking about at least 2/3 years. If you can not deliver it through incredible regular season performances, then you better get to the finals and win it. The latter is how Kawhi made into superstardom. If you have a different criteria for measuring superstardom, that's ok. Remind me again when Butler had been this assertive. If he was 24/25, i could say oh, he was learning how to win in his younger years. And please neither Curry nor Kawhi- who just had a choke tag placed on his playoff career- is the subject of discussion here. Neither of them is placed at the same level as Lebron. The discussion is about your so-called GOAT. You allow a guy who has at best pulled off a few star performances in his career to attain superstardom in a series against you? That's unacceptable. . Wake me up when this dream is over.

Every player has his own coming out party, and this playoff run is Jimmy Butler's own. Kawhi won finals MVP because his team won. Jimmy Butler is on course to win finals MVP if his team wins. And don't forget that he has been an all-star since 2015, except for last year. . So, yes, he's a superstar

At 31? Against your GOAT? and your GOAT can't put him in his place? Continue. . As i said Lebron fans will change the narrative. I am not surprised. We were talking about a sweep, and nobody ever ever called Jimmy butler a superstar, until this series. Abeg say something else. Abeg shift. .

steady986:

Every player has his own coming out party, and this playoff run is Jimmy Butler's own. Kawhi won finals MVP because his team won. Jimmy Butler is on course to win finals MVP if his team wins. And don't forget that he has been an all-star since 2015, except for last year. . So, yes, he's a superstar

steady986:

You're kidding right? I've been sceptical about most of what you've been saying since you started posting today but this one right here got my attention. Iverson and Wade were definitely better

why do u focus more on what u disagree with than what u agree with?

I dropped an epistle, and u focused on the negatives.

well, personal opinions.

I love Iverson with all my heart. but he was an unattractive teammate. no one wanted go play next to him. That made him unattractive.

To be great, u need to attract the best skillset from other players to your own skill set.

Iverson was a one-man-army.

he transferred his real life experiences to the game. soooo much attitude, arrogance and passion.


As for wade, he had a better finals than Clyde ever did. but I still its either they are on same level or Clyde is ahead.


Sorry to ask, did you watch the 92finals in real time?

I'm not talking about google o.


Clyde was the closest to Jordan as a shooting guard for a period of time.



Maybe Iverson at his best but not wade.

Iverson is my best pound for pound scoring small-sized guard. but he was never going to attract the right players to be built around him to form a legacy.

he wasn't even really interested in the business side of it to place him in that position.

benji93:
At 31? Against your GOAT? and your GOAT can't put him in his place? Continue. . As i said Lebron fans will change the narrative. I am not surprised. We were talking about a sweep, and nobody ever ever called Jimmy butler a superstar, until this series. Abeg say something else. Abeg shift. .

Who even get time to argue with you. When we win the championship nobody go ask whether Butler na superstar or not. There'll be too much celebration to care. This one na una last resort to try and diminish the title, because you know it's coming for sure

nairamaniac:


why do u focus more on what u disagree with than what u agree with?

I dropped an epistle, and u focused on the negatives.

well, personal opinions.

I love Iverson with all my heart. but he was an unattractive teammate. no one wanted go play next to him. That made him unattractive.

To be great, u need to attract the best skillset from other players to your own skill set.

Iverson was a one-man-army.

he transferred his real life experiences to the game. soooo much attitude, arrogance and passion.


As for wade, he had a better finals than Clyde ever did. but I still its either they are on same level or Clyde is ahead.


Sorry to ask, did you watch the 92finals in real time?

I'm not talking about google o.


Clyde was the closest to Jordan as a shooting guard for a period of time.



Maybe Iverson at his best but not wade.

Iverson is my best pound for pound scoring small-sized guard. but he was never going to attract the right players to be built around him to form a legacy.

he wasn't even really interested in the business side of it to place him in that position.

You want to eat your cake and have it. Are we talking about pure skills or greatness? Because if it is pure skills, Drexler doesn't come close to Iverson. And for greatness he doesn't cone close to Wade, the skills comparison is up for debate.

steady986:

You want to eat your cake and have it. Are we talking about pure skills or greatness? Because if it is pure skills, Drexler doesn't come close to Iverson. And for greatness he doesn't cone close to Wade, the skills comparison is up for debate.

Well. I agree with u on dis one looking deeply into it.

Perhaps my misjudgment is being influenced with Clyde's similarities to Jordan in so many ways over a same period of years.


U could actually mistake Clyde and Jordan from a distance in the ways they moved and attacked the rim.

And Clyde was clearly the 2nd best shooting guard for a period of Jordan's years.


But I agree with u on Iverson and wade surpassing him in later years.

nairamaniac:


can u imagine? is derozan better than prime Iverson or MITch Richmonds.

The only shooting guard better than Clyde since Clyde should be Kobe.


And Jordan overshadowed Clyde thruout their careers

Mschewww imagine mentioning DeRozan in the same breath with those guys, it's an insult.

Clyde's only problem was his mentality, he was bigger than Kobe, Wade and even Jordan but he didn't seem to have their drive or killer mentality. Clyde was a better passer and rebounder than Kobe and Wade and in his prime was a 24-6-6 guy.

benji93:
At 31? Against your GOAT? and your GOAT can't put him in his place? Continue. . As i said Lebron fans will change the narrative. I am not surprised. We were talking about a sweep, and nobody ever ever called Jimmy butler a superstar, until this series. Abeg say something else. Abeg shift. .

Hehehehe Jimmy Butler is suddenly a superstar. Orisirisi

I just pray make Heat try steal Game 6 let's hear how Duncan Robinson and Tyler Herro na superstar

A40:
Mschewww imagine mentioning DeRozan in the same breath with those guys, it's an insult.

Clyde's only problem was his mentality, he was bigger than Kobe, Wade and even Jordan but he didn't seem to have their drive or killer mentality. Clyde was a better passer and rebounder than Kobe and Wade and in his prime was a 24-6-6 guy.

I can't agree less with you.

But back to how significant jordan was to the bulls/pippen/rodman and not the other way around as people presently put it, I think its the biggest insult to the game of basketball.


Very very big insult.




Some of those series the bulls won by wide margins were so surprising.

The bulls had a plan-A and a Plan-B on all their Half-court strategies.

They had only a Plan-A and a Plan-B, just 2plans to execute b4 the short clock ran out.


Plan-A was TEX WINTERS TRIANGLE. Phil Jackson brought this on when he came on board as Head coach.

Whenever it failed on a first attempt to score, plan-B was almost all the time made for Jordan to score as next option.



What baffled me were those kinds of series when bulls with just 2ways to score would out score teams like Orlando magic who had multiple drawn-strategies to score. Same Orlando magic who massacred the bulls just a year earlier. Rodman was a pest to Shaq, fine. But Jordan was still Scoring above his career averages in those 4games.
Would u den say it was rodman or pippen factor?


Or is it in the both finals against Utah in 97&98?? Both Jordan and karl marlone were the beat scrorers in the NBA those 2years.
They exchanged season's mvp's those years. They were both being double teamed on every possession.

But end of both series, Jordan can up on top on Malone.


People just go to google these days open the stats of those matches and make judgments from all that transpired.

I sweardown, if they ever put up late nights for those matches or take their time to go watch those matches, they would have a clearer picture of what went Down.

For his size, height and position(guard), jordan is the most offensive threat the game ever had. And his handles could be as dangerouse as the best in that regard: Tim hardaway, Kenny Anderson, isiah Thomas. And these were the best handles in the NBA I can remember as the best during the jordan-era. Then he has leaps&moves to score in the paint over Ewing, Shaq and Robinson as much as he wants each time they met.

Was as unstoppable force.


I keep on saying that for Lebron to or anyone to get to the level of jordan, Lebron or anyone else would have to be directly responsible for tripling the gate-takings of NBA games. And the only way Lebron or anyone else would do that would have to entail all the franchises to expand their stadiums. That is to either renovate or destroy&rebuild.


I say this cos no other player has ever had as much direct influence on the rise of gate takings on basketball ball games in the NBA as much as Jordan.

Not Bird, not Magic and not Isiah had that influence on that rise.

I witnessed the transition in real time. I am not young at all.

People were coming to watch NBA for the first time In arena's cos they heard their was one man that could fly.

Imagine staduims that for audience with an average count of 15thousand suddenly started getting 40thousand, 50thousand when ever the bulls were coming to town.

All just to see jordan.

Let Lebron talk that count to 80thousand directly, then we can all sitdown and talk.

Taking nothing from Lebron, he is very very good.


But there is a difference between God the Spirit and God the son.


To be honest, I rather just stay silent here and not say a word on this thread. Iv been always here for last years. I rather listen and Learn from you guys.

But I can't sleep well at night whenever I hear these arguments or insults against history.

[quote author=nairamaniac post=94824348

Let Lebron talk that count to 80thousand directly, then we can all sitdown and talk.

Taking nothing from Lebron,
[/quote]
Guy I'll love to know your top 5 presently and also all time if you don't mind

We need to put more respect on curry's playoffs performances. The guy has had 3 bad games in the NBA playoffs finals out of 5 trips to the finals and suddenly he's a choker.
Iguodala was never finals mvp but the media voters who had this old school bias couldn't wrap their head around the fact that a PG who is relatively small, unathletic, white skinned, jump shot shooting and supposedly soft can be the best players in a championship team.

steady986:

What's the definition of superstar? Is the superstar tag given based on reputation or performance? You can call Giannis a superstar, who couldn't take his team to the finals on two occasions even though they were favourites. But you can't call Jimmy Butler a superstar, someone who took his team to the finals and is busy dropping 40 point triple doubles. Even Steph or Kawhi have never dropped a 40 point triple double in the finals. And don't even get me started about how Steph comes up smaller in the playoffs than the regular season, just like una MVP Giannis. Those are who you call superstars abi?

nairamaniac:


I can't agree less with you.

But back to how significant jordan was to the bulls/pippen/rodman and not the other way around as people presently put it, I think its the biggest insult to the game of basketball.

Very very big insult.

It's crazy. I showed folks on this thread that MJ led his team in 2 of the 3 major stats in 3 of their 6 title winning season they still argued. They claimed all MJ did was guard small guys. I showed a whole series where MJ was Magic Johnson's primary defender. In Jordan's prime there was no series or season he was not primarily guarding the best perimeter offensive threat on the other team whether bigger or smaller. Isiah Thomas always talks shit about MJ but go and see how his numbers shrank Everytime he faced MJ and was mostly bailed by his teammates

Besides Anybody that knows anything about basketball knows that come playoff time scoring is the singular most difficult task. Anybody can spam rebounds and assists (which is dependent on the teammate scoring anyway) but going in a half court set and scoring bucket after bucket is the toughest thing to do so it's laughable that people downplay this.

We have a bevy of stars in the history of basketball past and present who averaged fewer points in the playoffs than the regular season even in their primes despite playing fewer games in the playoffs

nairamaniac:

Some of those series the bulls won by wide margins were so surprising.

The bulls had a plan-A and a Plan-B on all their Half-court strategies.

They had only a Plan-A and a Plan-B, just 2plans to execute b4 the short clock ran out.


Plan-A was TEX WINTERS TRIANGLE. Phil Jackson brought this on when he came on board as Head coach.

Whenever it failed on a first attempt to score, plan-B was almost all the time made for Jordan to score as next option.

Again another thing people failed to realize is aside the fact that most of this so-called triangle offense was MJ and inshallah this myth that Jordan couldn't pass was largely because unlike the PnR the triangle does not demand on one ball dominant player which is why assist numbers are usually spread around and you don't have one player having double digit assists while the teammates have little or nothing

nairamaniac:

what baffled me were those kinds of series when bulls with just 2ways to score would out score teams like Orlando magic who had multiple drawn-strategies to score. Same Orlando magic who massacred the bulls just a year earlier. Rodman was a pest to Shaq, fine. But Jordan was still Scoring above his career averages in those 4games.
Would u den say it was rodman or pippen factor?

Shaq was 11-13 and 16-22 in 2 of those 4 games. I can only point to Game 3 as a game Rodman had any real impact on Shaq

Ironically Rodman was more of a factor offensively

nairamaniac:

Or is it in the both finals against Utah in 97&98?? Both Jordan and karl marlone were the beat scrorers in the NBA those 2years.
They exchanged season's mvp's those years. They were both being double teamed on every possession.

But end of both series, Jordan can up on top on Malone.

Malone and Stockton win two rings easy if they don't run into MJ. That Utah team would go down in history as one of the most underrated ever. They beat Barkley/Olajuwon and Drexler twice. Beat Shaq and the Lakers with a young Kobe, beat Duncan and Robinson

nairamaniac:

People just go to google these days open the stats of those matches and make judgments from all that transpired.

I sweardown, if they ever put up late nights for those matches or take their time to go watch those matches, they would have a clearer picture of what went Down.

For his size, height and position(guard), jordan is the most offensive threat the game ever had. And his handles could be as dangerouse as the best in that regard: Tim hardaway, Kenny Anderson, isiah Thomas. And these were the best handles in the NBA I can remember as the best during the jordan-era. Then he has leaps&moves to score in the paint over Ewing, Shaq and Robinson as much as he wants each time they met.

Was as unstoppable force.


I keep on saying that for Lebron to or anyone to get to the level of jordan, Lebron or anyone else would have to be directly responsible for tripling the gate-takings of NBA games. And the only way Lebron or anyone else would do that would have to entail all the franchises to expand their stadiums. That is to either renovate or destroy&rebuild.


I say this cos no other player has ever had as much direct influence on the rise of gate takings on basketball ball games in the NBA as much as Jordan.

Not Bird, not Magic and not Isiah had that influence on that rise.

I witnessed the transition in real time. I am not young at all.

People were coming to watch NBA for the first time In arena's cos they heard their was one man that could fly.

nairamaniac:

Imagine staduims that for audience with an average count of 15thousand suddenly started getting 40thousand, 50thousand when ever the bulls were coming to town.

All just to see jordan.

Let Lebron talk that count to 80thousand directly, then we can all sitdown and talk.

Taking nothing from Lebron, he is very very good.


But there is a difference between God the Spirit and God the son.


To be honest, I rather just stay silent here and not say a word on this thread. Iv been always here for last years. I rather listen and Learn from you guys.

But I can't sleep well at night whenever I hear these arguments or insults against history.

I don't think even the most aggressive Bronsexual will compare the popularity off court of MJ to anyone else. This is somebody that was probably the 2nd most popular person after Michael Jackson on the planet in the 90's

But we're saying that both on and off the court MJ remains the GOAT.

It's good that you show up here every now and then to continue enlightening people.

nairamaniac:
nice one guys, I rarely comment on this thread, tlll its playoffs or finals.


but God wouldn't forgive me if I don't clear this up.

The arguments here between A40 and
WeissVonner.

The only part A40 gets it quite wrong is that "Lebron isn't as bad as he depicts him".


but on 90% of the arguments, A40 is spot on.


Guys Lebron may be the 2nd or 3rd best ever after Jordan.
but definitely not on same level.


Jordan was ahead of his time.

A40 has said it all. *The most important and hardest stat in the game is SCORING*

Assist, rebounds, triple-doubles and even Defence is nothing compared to scoring.

Are u guys okay?

u are mentioning Dennis.


God bless the mind of A40 in here. he may not be 100% the best analyst or basket-ball historian, but he is a genius and we should all listen and learn whenever he speaks.


A40 is 100% spot-on as regards the kind of offensive/scoring help Jordan got from Pippen.


imagine Jordan's number 2 scorer averaged less than 20points in his career. where in the world has that ever happened in a championship team that depended on SCORING to win games.

Do u feel me??



if you say it happened with the piston's when they last won the title, I would tell u "that pistons depended on defence/physical play to dominate"



But for a team to win 6 tittles in 8years and the team for all those 6titles were always In the first-to-third in terms of "most points per game", and their second best scorer can't easily score 20points in 5 consecutive games, then you guys should loooooook very very deeply into the MJ-factor.


Then u guys are talking about Magic Johnson killing Jordan until Pippen came to bail MJ out.
using that particular series/occurrence to downplay MJ's game.


but get one thing clear,
Jordan isn't just the goat. He is a god.

Cut some things out to spare the thread and people scrolling through.

Dude, I'll be 100% honest with you, I didn't read your whole post but I get the gist of it. Jordan was better, he was a great scorer, a god, same old hokum nostalgic old people keep spewing. I get it, he dominated an inferior watered down extension era of basketball with clearly the best team in the league in an era without mobility. Then there was the marketing, what he meant to the sport, many people love and play the sport because of him and I understand all of that, I give him his props for that. But that whole 6-0 thing, no one is ever going to achieve that in the modern player mobility era, in my eyes Jordan is actually 6-9, I wont give him a pass for losing before the finals if we are going to hold LeBron responsible for losing in the finals. It's a dumb argument because I always say the best team beats the best player but since that's the game you want to play.

Here's what LeBron is:

6'9, 250lbs, so hes bigger and stronger. He's as good of a scorer as anyone who's ever played the game, as good as a playmaker as anyone who's ever played the game, as good and as versatile of a defender as anyone who's ever played the game. If passing and rebounding didn't matter people won't be in the HOF because of it. This is another extremely asinine argument, because if assisting didnt matter we wouldn't need point guards, people like Magic and Stockton and Kidd wouldn't be all time greats. Then theres Rodman and Russell and co. You need assists to create for other players because not every player can create for themselves, even all time greats like arguable GOATs KAJ or Wilt, and other all time greats like Shaq etc needed players to create for them. You need rebounding to gain possessions and extra possessions to score. Its these little things that make a team win, believing only scoring matters is incredibly myopic. Its incredibly hard to outscore the other team if you are losing in these departments.

The summary of LeBrons case is this, No one can deny he's the most complete player who's ever lived. No one impacts winning more than LeBron and no one has done more with less than LeBron. LeBron left Cleveland and both times they proceeded to have one of the worst records in NBA history, Jordan left the bulls and they won 2 fewer games and Pippen is second in MVP voting. The worst team LeBron played in the finals is better than the best team Jordan beat in the Finals. You really think if things were same as before where each team only had two stars in this era, you really believe LeBron would lose any of the Finals he played in the last 9 years? Then your man had Phil Jackson, every single coach LeBron has taken to the finals had never been to the finals before him. I repeat, no one impacts winning more than LeBron, this is a fact, I don't think any objective person will deny this.

If you're questioning his mental strength this is someone who as a teenager was dubbed "the chosen one", he literally put this pressure on his back. Exceeded all expectations and never put a foot wrong on or off the court bar maybe 2011 in Dallas. He embraced the pressure and thrived under it. Anyone who questions how tough minded he is is a clown.


And if you lot are starting up this argument because LeBron is going 6 with Miami, let me tell you what Jordan at 33 in year 11 did in the finals.

Jordan went 3-0 against a supersonics team with an injured Gary Payton. Still needed 6 games to win, and in game 6, he shot 5/19 and still won. Bron shot 71%, dropped a 40 point almost triple double and lost.

This is why this era is so funny to me. We rely on sensationalism, every play LeBron makes is critiqued, Jordan didnt have the media ubiquity and certainly had an air of mystique no one will enjoy again. In game 5, Bron made the right play to a role player who bricked it and the immediate reaction is Jordan or Kobe would never when they literally did the exact same thing multiple times and their teammates have hit multiple shots like that. This is the player with literally the most playoff buzzer beaters in NBA history and with the best clutch stats in NBA history. Really? scared? LOL!

In the end there's subjectivity in all our arguments. I will still tell you R9 is the greatest footballer of all time because I'm trying so hard to cling to that. But in my opinion, MJ vs LJ is really no debate at all. It certainly won't be by the time LeBron is done.

WeissVonner:

Cut some things out to spare the thread and people scrolling through.

Dude, I'll be 100% honest with you, I didn't read your whole post but I get the gist of it. Jordan was better, he was a great scorer, a god, same old hokum nostalgic old people keep spewing. I get it, he dominated an inferior watered down extension era of basketball with clearly the best team in the league in an era without mobility. Then there was the marketing, what he meant to the sport, many people love and play the sport because of him and I understand all of that, I give him his props for that. But that whole 6-0 thing, no one is ever going to achieve that in the modern player mobility era, in my eyes Jordan is actually 6-9, I wont give him a pass for losing before the finals if we are going to hold LeBron responsible for losing in the finals. It's a dumb argument because I always say the best team beats the best player but since that's the game you want to play.

Here's what LeBron is:

6'9, 250lbs, so hes bigger and stronger. He's as good of a scorer as anyone who's ever played the game, as good as a playmaker as anyone who's ever played the game, as good and as versatile of a defender as anyone who's ever played the game. If passing and rebounding didn't matter people won't be in the HOF because of it. This is another extremely asinine argument, because if assisting didnt matter we wouldn't need point guards, people like Magic and Stockton and Kidd wouldn't be all time greats. Then theres Rodman and Russell and co. You need assists to create for other players because not every player can create for themselves, even all time greats like arguable the GOATs KAJ or Wilt, and other all time greats like Shaq etc needed players to create for them. You need rebounding to gain possessions and extra possessions to score. Its these little things that make a team win, believing on scoring matters is incredibly myopic.

The summary of LeBrons case is this, No one can deny he's the most complete player who's ever lived. No one impacts winning more than LeBron and no one has done more with less than LeBron. LeBron left Cleveland and both times they proceeded to have one of the worst records in NBA history, Jordan left the bulls and they won 2 fewer games and Pippen is second in MVP voting. The worst team LeBron played in the finals is better than the best team Jordan beat in the Finals. You really think if things were same as before where each team only had two stars in this era, you really believe LeBron would lose any of the Finals he played in the last 9 years? Then your man had Phil Jackson, every single coach LeBron has taken to the finals has ever been to the finals before him. I repeat, no one impacts winning more than LeBron, this is a fact, I don't think any objective person will deny this.

If you're questioning his mental strength this is someone who as the teenager was dubbed "the chosen one", he literally put this pressure on his back. Exceeded all expectations and never put a foot wrong on or off the court bar maybe 2011 in Dallas. He embraced the pressure and thrived under it. Anyone who questions how tough minded he is is a clown.


And if you lot are starting up this argument because LeBron is going 6 with Miami, let me tell you what Jordan at 35 in year 13 did in the finals.

Jordan went 3-0 against a supersonics team with an injured Gary Payton. Still needed 6 games to win, and in game 6, he shot 5/19 and still won. Bron shot 71%, dropped a 40 point almost triple double and lost.

This is why this era is so funny to me. We rely on sensationalism, every play LeBron makes is critiqued, Jordan didnt have the media ubiquity and certainly had an air of mystique no one will enjoy again. In game 5, Bron made the right play to a role player who bricked it and the immediate reaction is Jordan or Kobe would never when they literally did the exact same thing multiple times and their teammates have hit multiple shots like that. This is the player with literally the most playoff buzzer beaters in NBA history and with the best clutch stats in NBA history. Really? scared? LOL!

In the end there's subjectivity in all our arguments. I will still tell you R9 is the greatest footballer of all time because I'm trying so hard to cling to that. But in my opinion, MJ vs LJ is really no debate at all. It certainly won't be by the time LeBron is done.

Nuff said *drops mic

Can you answer this question. Did you watch the 1992 finals in real time? .@nairalmaniac asked you that question, but you dodged it. . Answer it please.

steady986:

You want to eat your cake and have it. Are we talking about pure skills or greatness? Because if it is pure skills, Drexler doesn't come close to Iverson. And for greatness he doesn't cone close to Wade, the skills comparison is up for debate.