Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? - Religion (21) - Nairaland
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| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Ptolomeus(m): 10:54pm On Apr 11, 2012 |
FXKing2012: I stopped tithing after reading posts in here. I pray to God I'm on the right path.you do not have the slightest doubt that you are on the right track.Although pastors get upset, because that affects the economy. When I see mention many biblical passages out of context to defend tithing, I think of the enormous despair felt by some pastors, the risk of losing their privileges, forcing honest people to have needs, and the pastor to enjoy luxuries ... If everyone did as you, the pastors, true social leeches, should go gridding as do you and me |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by FXKing2012(m): 11:16am On Apr 13, 2012 |
Ptolomeus: Thank u.[b][/b][color=#006600][/color] |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by runsaway: 4:45pm On Apr 18, 2012 |
Reflect on all the discuss in this thread in the light of 1 Corinthians 8 (New International Version) 1 Corinthians 8 New International Version (NIV) 1 Corinthians 8 Concerning Food Sacrificed to Idols 1 Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 2 Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. 3 But whoever loves God is known by God.[a] 4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.” 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. 7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. 9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+8&version=NIV |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by FXKing2012(m): 4:29pm On Apr 23, 2012 |
Someone told me that the fact that Jesus never condemned the paying of tithes in the Bible means that tithing is allowed. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by garyarnold(m): 5:27pm On Apr 23, 2012 |
FXKing2012: Someone told me that the fact that Jesus never condemned the paying of tithes in the Bible means that tithing is allowed. Since Jesus was born, lived, and died during the Old Covenant, how could he condemn tithing or any of the other 600 plus laws? He was under the law, Himself. Please show me a list of the 613 OT laws and indicate which of those laws Jesus condemned. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Goshen360(m): 7:55pm On Apr 23, 2012 |
@ Snowwy, How are you? Long time. How you come run away from me, your brother naw? e no good o,lol. Back to topic, how about First-fruit? Since Jesus already fulfilled First-fruit, do we still need to keep it OR why are we still trying to keep it? |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Snowwy: 7:59pm On Apr 23, 2012 |
Goshen360: @ Snowwy, Lol, @Goshen, it was you that took off from our last discussion claiming you intended to go on sabatical only for you to show up on another thread. I am doing really great by the way and I am sure you too are. Do take care then... |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Goshen360(m): 8:02pm On Apr 23, 2012 |
Snowwy: I hear but you no answer my Firstfruit question o. Should be still keep/continue it since it is very clear from scriptures that Jesus fulfilled firstfruit? Over to you, do justice...i no want lie o,lol  |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Snowwy: 8:46pm On Apr 23, 2012 |
Goshen360: @Goshen, I will advise you take some time dedicated for your sabatical to study what is meant by Christ 'fulfilling the law'. That is why when you keep hammering that the law is destroyed, it speaks a lot. The very scripture Christ said he fulfilled the law negates a lot of your statements on Christ nailing the law to the cross. Christ nailed the judgement written against us to the cross. The curse of the law was what Jesus Christ came to destroy- that was the law of sin and death. Also the fact that the works of the law was what justified one in the old testament. Christ only can justify...and our light as Christians will shine when they see our good works. It took me some personal study to understand it myself thus since you say you are a bible student...pls do the study yourself and get the inspiration yourself. That way you can understand it better. Do have a great night. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Goshen360(m): 8:58pm On Apr 23, 2012 |
@ Snowwy, I hear you. I will take a leave and study even as am still studying cos it's continuous BUT you dodged my question. My question is do you also through Christ stone your rebellious children to death since you claim to Snowwy: I believe Christ fulfilled the law therefore it is only through Christ and in Him we can fulfill the righteous requirements of the law which the Israelites couldn't do. You should be able to stone your non virgin wife to death or kill your rebellious kids SINCE YOU JUST SAID THROUGH CHRIST YOU/ Answer the question. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Snowwy: 9:26pm On Apr 23, 2012 |
Goshen360: @ Snowwy, I can see you missed the whole essence of the post. Rebelious children and non-virgin wives were expected to be stoned in the OT as punishment/judgement. Jesus came to cancel the handwriting of that ordinance that was against them. He did not come to cancel the law that says children should not be rebellious to their parents or that women should not fornicate...get my drift? The death that was their judgement was what Christ came to cancel. That was the law of sin and death. He brought in a better hope. I can also see you carefully removed yourself from the righteous requirements of the law that Christ fulfilled...seems you have not read your bible to that point else you wouldn't remove yourself from that great work Christ came to do. Romans 8:4. Now that your question is answered, guess its a good night. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Goshen360(m): 3:25am On Apr 24, 2012 |
^^^ Let me just leave it as it is. Don't want to pull you more. Thank you. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Snowwy: 5:51am On Apr 24, 2012 |
Goshen360: ^^^ The word of the Lord is to be 'left as it is' not trying to pull more from it than what it did not say in the first place. Thank you too. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by PastorKun(m): 7:50am On Apr 24, 2012 |
@snowwy So this is were you are hiding, Image123 desperately needs your help on the other tithe thread. Abeg don't abandon him to face ridicule alone. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Snowwy: 8:31am On Apr 24, 2012 |
Pastor Kun: @snowwy @Pastor Kun, I see you love attention. You have received your five minutes of attention in which I concluded that it was pointless dicussing this with you, so saying I am 'hiding' is funny. Image123 who decided to engage you should be fine if he knows the word of God. One doesn't need man's back-up as long as one has God's word. However for you, I know that you cannot defend anything tithe except you get back-up. As long as you have your fellow anti-tithers by you, that is the time I see you exhibit confidence...if no one backs you up...you disappear. Coming to call me to 'help' image123 just proved what it seems you do yourself all the time you get stuck on this subject. Lol. Pastor Kun...no be today. Enjoy your thread. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by PastorKun(m): 9:24am On Apr 24, 2012 |
Snowwy: Hahahaha you make me laugh those who know me very well on nairaland would attest to you that I started my exposure on the tithes fraud as far back as 2007 when I published a very lengthy and detailed post on why tithing in the church is a fraud. As a result of my effort several nairalanders that had previously been deceived into parting with 10% of their income a regular basis have become liberated. Without wanting to sound boastful I can submit that I championed the exposure of the tithing fraud on this forum and I sustained it for several years so I don't need the backing of others to expose the fraud the bible provides more than enough backing. This is not to say I don't appreciate or recognise the effort of several other brethen who are doing a better Job at it than myself and allowing God to use them to expose this monumental fraud his name is being used to perpetuate. Snowwy just admit it, you are a fraud. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Image123(m): 9:30am On Apr 24, 2012 |
Tales by sunlight. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Snowwy: 5:48pm On Apr 24, 2012 |
FXKing2012: What made you stop in the first place should have been your decision on whether you were on the right track or not. Besides you said after all you read on this thread, you had made your decision. As long as you are fully persuaded in your mind to stop as I said earlier and have all your biblical back-up...no need to fret. That is your decision and choice. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by FXKing2012(m): 4:49pm On Apr 26, 2012 |
Snowwy: OK. . .thanks. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Snowwy: 8:42pm On Apr 26, 2012 |
FXKing2012: I did not do anything beyond re-echoing what you yourself had already said. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Chyysom(m): 10:57pm On Apr 26, 2012 |
Don't misinterpret d bible. Jesus did say something abt tithing please read Matt 23 v 23 try and understand what He means by that when He said these things u ought to do without neglecting the former meaning tithing. Jesus never condemned tithing.He said while they r faithful in their tithes they shouldn't neglect doing other good things because of it.The old testament hasn't being abolished if so why is it still part of d bible or r u wiser than God?it is only d idea behind d laws that have been abolished.and the law is mostly in the book of leviticus.Take note pastor what do dey call u. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Jem1: 11:55pm On Apr 26, 2012 |
Chyysom: Don't misinterpret d bible. Jesus did say something abt tithing please read Matt 23 v 23 try and understand what He means by that when He said these things u ought to do without neglecting the former meaning tithing. Jesus never condemned tithing.He said while they r faithful in their tithes they shouldn't neglect doing other good things because of it.The old testament hasn't being abolished if so why is it still part of d bible or r u wiser than God?it is only d idea behind d laws that have been abolished.and the law is mostly in the book of leviticus.Take note pastor what do dey call u. @Chyysom, let me rephrase your statement and replace your quotes of tithes with 'Lev 27:30,32 Tithes'; " Don't misinterpret d bible. Jesus did say something abt '*Lev 27:30,32 tithing' please read Matt 23 v 23 try and understand what He means by that when He said these things u ought to do without neglecting the former meaning 'Lev 27:30,32 tithing'[/b]. Jesus never condemned [b]'Lev 27:30,32 tithing'. He said while they r faithful in their 'Lev 27:30,32 tithes' [/b]they shouldn't neglect doing other good things because of it." (end quote). Please note that [b]Jesus never paid 'Lev 27:30,32 Tithes' [/b]from His income as a carpenter neither did the Apostles who were fishermen. Early Christians who were wage/salary earners also never paid Lev 27:30,32 Tithe. Their increase/income/wages was simply not what God defined as His Tithe. See below: [b]*Lev 27: 30 “ ‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord. 32 Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord. p.s. The Pharisees tithed according to Lev 27:30,32 because the tithed 'mint, dill and cumin' which are farm produce. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Goshen360(m): 4:17am On Apr 27, 2012 |
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| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Snowwy: 5:33am On Apr 27, 2012 |
@Jem1, Other scriptures I thought you would add: Numbers 18:21 (KJV) 2 Chronicles 31:4-5 (KJV)
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| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Enigma(m): 6:07am On Apr 27, 2012 |
The above was expected of course. NID  But let us see what Jesus said about the person who says "I give tithes of all I possess" Luke 18 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. So according to Jesus a "sinner", a publican, was justified and not the one boasting "I give tithes of all I get." Nice.  Additional considerations 1. Assuming he did really tithe all he "possessed", would he also have tithed slaves? Would a person who "possessed" slaves have also tithed slaves? 2. Do today's "tithers" really tithe all they "possess" or is it another case of selective application ---- the same way they ignore all the other forms of tithing commanded in the Bible --- like the one for family jollification? 3. In any event there was NO obligation on any Jew of the age to tithe all he possessed; God did NOT give any such command or direction. Scholars have noted that some Pharisees did do so in order to show off that they were "righteous" but we have seen Jesus say it did not even give them any particular "righteousness" and even a sinner who did not pay/give tithes was justified rather than the tither. 4. Some scholars have queried the rendering "possess" arguing that a better translation would be something like "acquire" or "increase" --- leading to a reading like "I give tithes of all I acquire (or of all my increase)"  |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Snowwy: 6:29am On Apr 27, 2012 |
Enigma: @Enigma, As you can see, my response was to add to Jem1's scriptures. The last scripture was said by a Pharisee as well since Jem1 said the pharisees only tithed 'farm produce'. If you have a problem with Luke 18:12 (as always) ask for the Holy Spirit to guide you...that is why the scripture says the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life. Next time study in context, Jesus spoke here for people 'who believed they were righteous and despised others'. The pharisee did not come to pray but to boast and despise his fellow man and that was simply what Christ was against. However, as usual, I understand you guys will pick what was not meant because you are looking for 'holes'. Giving and other good works do not justify.....no one ever said it does, Christ justifies and saves and then your good works will be praiseworthy....as simple as ABC. @Enigma, if you have been lying in wait for me, you are wasting your time. Tithe has been dicussed fully on NL...so I won't be drawn into any other dicussion with you (or your scholars), go back and read what has been said before. The funniest thing that you guys who speak just of 'farm produce' fail to note that almost all blessings of obeying God's commands in the OT has to do with blessings of the field, of rain, of increase of the ground, of the winepresses being filled, of the vine not casting her fruit before its time, of increase of animals etc. Your anology proves that all other occupations did not get blessed by God in the OT.  Today, I hope you guys do not also go back to the OT and quote all those blessings 'figuratively' for yourselves. All the tribes of Israel (apart from Levites) had land as inheritance, therefore even if they had other occupations, they still farmed. That was their major substance. |
| Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Enigma(m): 6:45am On Apr 27, 2012 |
Snowwy: Your response is your response as well as your choice and as well as your own problem. Snowwy: If you have a problem with Luke 18:12 (as always) ask for the Holy Spirit to guide you...that is why the scripture says the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life. The bolded is nonsense of course; you start spouting this rubbish once your duplicitous and mischievous proof-texting is shown up for the fraud that it is. Snowwy: The pharisee did not come to pray but to boast and despise his fellow man and that was simply what Christ was against. How far did your example and friend, indeed your role-model, the Pharisee's "tithing" of "all he possessed" get him? Not very far obviously; in fact, nowhere ---- even a publican, a sinner, who did not tithe anything apparently was justified and your role model "tither" was not. Snowwy: The funniest thing that you guys who speak just of 'farm produce' fail to note that almost all blessings of obeying God's commands in the OT has to do with blessings of the field, of rain, of increase of the ground, of the winepresses being filled, of the vine not casting her fruit before its time, of increase of animals etc. Your anology proves that all other occupations did not get blessed by God in the OT. Show us from the Bible where God commanded people to tithe anything other than farm produce and livestock. Snowwy: @Enigma, if you have been lying in wait for me, you are wasting your time. Tithe has been dicussed fully on NL...so I won't be drawn into any other dicussion with you (or your scholars), go back and read what has been said before. I don't need to lie in wait for you; you will always be trapped by your own duplicity if you engage in such. Even if I never post on nairaland again, there will always be someone able to point out such duplicity. |
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