Cristalz:

And you know this because....your crystal ball said so, perhaps?

And FYI, you avoided answering why chances, or "half chances" (in your opinion) were created for Welbeck but mysteriously weren't created for RVP.
Welbeck must have two heads!

Or here's a thought. . .maybe RVP was simply too ill-positioned for his teammates to find. It wasn't about having Rooney on or not.
Plus, most of the time when RVP did get the ball, quoting a friend that saw the game with me..."na RVP sef dey spoil ball"

Babe you know soccer o. You analyze it well. I love you just 'cos of this, and you are a United fan. Lots of hugs.

StarBoard:
Yeah but if van Persie converted one of those chances in Madrid, the red card might not have been an issue.You cannot divorce the events of the first leg from the second. It's a two-legged tie.
No mention of the chance created by the much-maligned Giggs for van Persie in the first half that he scuffed.
Please lay off the criticism. Giggs did well.

had madrid needed 4 goals to qualify on tuesday, they would have gotten it after the red card. they took their foot off the gas after the 2nd goal knowing they don't need to score more and even if we had equalised, they would still have gone through! that was a half-chance giggs created - nothing van persie could have done better than that, the angle was acute!

How was his performance in Madrid?
I wouldn't benchmark his form vs lowly Norwich and QPR to vouch for his place on the starting line-up vs Real Madrid. Your last statement masks your criticism of him so far this season.

his performance in madrid is irrelevant - he was played out of position!
play falcao as a winger too and let's see how effective he would be. rooney is a centre forward or a support striker - asking him to do something else is stretching it. rooney should have played behind van persie, welbeck on the left and nani on the right! we would have had a more threatening attack plus rooney/welbeck can press than having a clueless giggs on the pitch throughout the game........

SAF pointed out that Giggs was the best player on the pitch on Tuesday.
Am I going with Fergie or Coogar on this. . .I think Fergie has it.
The gaffer's choice of tactics turned out to be a good one. His choice of players was his prerogative and it worked well for the chosen tactic; he had a game plan which it seemed he was gonna execute in stages till the red card happened and his brain underwent a Turkish semi-freeze.
Lay off Giggs already. He didn't deny Rooney anything. Ferguson did.

coogar:
i don't even care about sunday again.
they should just win the league and forget this season already.......with that wonderful squad as ours, it's a mare we got eliminated the way we did. what a shame!!!!

Well, I care about Sunday. Two trophies are still better than one.
Besides, would be a lot of fun to beat Chelsea.

elampiro:
Babe you know soccer o. You analyze it well. I love you just 'cos of this, and you are a United fan. Lots of hugs.

I'm still growing o, but thanks .

@Emperoh
Good to be around .

Cristalz: SAF pointed out that Giggs was the best player on the pitch on Tuesday.
Am I going with Fergie or Coogar on this. . .I think Fergie has it.

what would you have said in his shoes? seriously? i didn't expect him to blame his own tactics(which i thought was a gamble). if we had won, i would be apologising for calling it wrong but we lost -

The gaffer's choice of tactics turned out to be a good one. His choice of players was his prerogative and it worked well for the chosen tactic; he had a game plan which it seemed he was gonna execute in stages till the red card happened and his brain underwent a Turkish semi-freeze.

that's the problem.......
some pundits feel rooney/rvp duo in attack would have done more damage in the first half to cushion the effect of a turkish brainfreeze. it appears hindsight but why leave room for hindsight? when barca lose no one says this one or that one should have started - because they always always start their strongest team. if they lose then it's because they weren't good enough on the day. it's not the same with man utd!

Lay off Giggs already. He didn't deny Rooney anything. Ferguson did.

if giggs had simply retired after shägging his brother's wife, would fergie have included him in the starting line-up. are you guys aware gary neville would have featured on tuesday if he didnt retire, same as scholes(if he isn't currently injured)?

Well, I care about Sunday. Two trophies are still better than one.
Besides, would be a lot of fun to beat Chelsea.

i am not that confident!
expect to see schmeichel, paul parker, mike phelan in the team. cathy ferguson might partner hernandez in the attack.

@Emperoh,
Thanks a lot

coogar:

had madrid needed 4 goals to qualify on tuesday, they would have gotten it after the red card. they took their foot off the gas after the 2nd goal knowing they don't need to score more and even if we had equalised, they would still have gone through! that was a half-chance giggs created - nothing van persie could have done better than that, the angle was acute!

Too acute to make clean contact and hit target or make the keeper work?
Don't agree, nucca.
You're making excuses for a very inept performance over two legs by RvP.

coogar:
his performance in madrid is irrelevant - he was played out of position!
play falcao as a winger too and let's see how effective he would be. rooney is a centre forward or a support striker - asking him to do something else is stretching it. rooney should have played behind van persie, welbeck on the left and nani on the right! we would have had a more threatening attack plus rooney/welbeck can press than having a clueless giggs on the pitch throughout the game........

It's not the first time Rooney has been played out of position.
It's not a new thing for him either. He did that at the latter end of Ronaldo's tenure at United. His performance at Madrid was below par for me, even as a Rooney supporter.
As poor as he was at the Bernabeu, how can you judge that he would play better than Giggs did?
Please do not use the games vs Norwich and QPR as a reason.

''He will be here next year, you've got my word on that," Ferguson told a news conference after British media reports had suggested Rooney could leave the club at the end of this season.
"He will be involved on Sunday (against Chelsea in their FA Cup quarter-final), no doubt about that.
"There is absolutely no issue between Wayne Rooney and I, to suggest we don't talk to each other on the training ground is absolute nonsense," Ferguson added.
"He understood the reason for not playing him was completely tactical and I think we were right ... (Danny) Welbeck is the best player we have in terms of operating in a double role (attacking and tracking back)."
It was the first time Ferguson had addressed the media since Tuesday's match when he was too distraught to speak publicly, sending assistant Mike Phelan to the news conference instead after Nani's 56th-minute red card completely changed the game.
He arrived at the training ground smiling and asking whether reporters wanted to "do the nonsense first" or "talk sense" and was anything but the angry manager who remonstrated so furiously during the Champions League last 16 second leg match.
Portugal winger Nani was sent off after a high-footed collision with Real defender Alvaro Arbeloa with United leading 1-0 at the time.
The Spanish visitors scored twice in the next 13 minutes through Luka Modric and Cristiano Ronaldo to go through to the quarter-finals 3-2 on aggregate after a 2-1 win on the night.
CLEARED MIND
Even Real coach Jose Mourinho questioned whether Nani should have been dismissed, saying on another occasion it could have been a yellow card. Ferguson was still stunned by the sending off.
"It's hard to keep your faith in the game when you see what's happened in the last few years. It's the third time we've been knocked out by a referee's decision," he remarked.
Ferguson also said he had made the right call in letting his assistant do the talking in the aftermath of the defeat, regardless of the fact the club faces UEFA disciplinary proceedings for failing to fulfil their media obligations.
"I thought it was a nice time for a chat with Jose and a nice glass of wine, relax a bit," he explained.
"I think Mike was the right one to go out, (he was) calm, very good at press, I'm going to give him more."
He had his concerns before the game over the referee as Turkey's Cuneyt Cakir had a previous history of sending off players from English teams.
"I had a big worry about it," Ferguson said before making it clear he did not want to dwell on the past.
His focus now is firmly on the two remaining chances of silverware in the shape of the FA Cup and the Premier League, where they hold a 12-point lead over champions Manchester City.
"In the analysis in the cold (light) of the day you realise for Manchester United you just have to get on with it, nothing can be done now," the 71-year-old Scot said.
"I've cleared my mind now and just have to get on with it, this is just another day in the history of the club, it's not a good day but another day. My job now is to galvanise the troops, who were fantastic on Tuesday."
United will face Chelsea without defender-midfielder Phil Jones, who is still out with an ankle injury but should be available next week.
Midfielder Ryan Giggs, who played the full game against Real in which he reached 1,000 professional appearances, will also not feature against Chelsea with Ferguson saying the 39-year-old had "done his bit".
The manager added the Real defeat would not have a negative impact on their frame of mind for the Chelsea game.
"There are a lot of things you can do when you lose a game but one of the things we don't do is give in," he said. "We will get up off our backsides and make sure we are ready for Sunday." (Editing by Patrick Johnston/Mark Meadows)
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/1-soccer-rooney-assured-over-future-ferguson-breaks-133505485--sow.html[/color]

The other controversial decisions:
Manchester United vs Bayern Munich 2010, Rafael was sent off in the second leg at Old Trafford when United were leading 3-1. That allowed Munich to get a one more goal which saw them through.

Paul Scholes' goal was erroneously ruled out in Porto, and it neabled Porto to go through and eventually won the UCL

StarBoard:
Too acute to make clean contact and hit target or make the keeper work?
Don't agree, nucca.
You're making excuses for a very inept performance over two legs by RvP.

and you don't think the inept performance could have stemmed from the fact that van persie had a mediocre partner in welbeck. our most potent performances this season had rooney dovetailing van persie. i reiterate, watch the away games at city, chelsea, newcastle, etc.

It's not the first time Rooney has been played out of position.
It's not a new thing for him either. He did that at the latter end of Ronaldo's tenure at United. His performance at Madrid was below par for me, even as a Rooney supporter.
As poor as he was at the Bernabeu, how can you judge that he would play better than Giggs did? Please do not use the games vs Norwich and QPR as a reason.

and when has rooney ever performed playing as a winger? he is put there for a defensive purpose not for the attacking purpose......rooney is a striker not a winger and i think he should be more selfish. his selflessness is the reason fergie can shove him here and there to the benefit of bambis like welbeck and giggsy. if rooney has refused from day one he would not be used as a sacrificial lamb then fergie would have bought defensive wingers.

as poor as he was at the bernebau? playing as what? a central attacking player or a winger? why shouldn't we put the games against norwich/qpr into consideration? when a player is in form then he's in form. by the same token, how did giggs get a starting berth when he has not put in a convincing performance for aeons? welbeck deserves his start(ahead of evra)......the position behind van persie belongs to rooney(half fit or quarter fit). nobody does it better than him!

abeg make we forget this UCL jare, sunday don already reach ...... FA cup on my mind!

adebayo201: abeg make we forget this UCL jare, sunday don already reach ...... FA cup on my mind!

can't wait for this season to end - it's been a frustrating one. the fa cup too would soon suffer a hiccup the moment we face a bottom side team. fergie would then line up unfit players and the ones just coming back from injury. he would put giggs as a captain to mark his 12,000th appearance in the competition and we would lose again - then the fergie apologists would understand why he rested key players for a league game against west ham.

Was so sad about this.

www.journalx.org

coogar:

can't wait for this season to end - it's been a frustrating one. the fa cup too would soon suffer a hiccup the moment we face a bottom side team. fergie would then line up unfit players and the ones just coming back from injury. he would put giggs as a captain to mark his 12,000th appearance in the competition and we would lose again - then the fergie apologists would understand why he rested key players for a league game against west ham.

if he tries that i would break his head on sunday,enough is enough

adebayo201: abeg make we forget this UCL jare, sunday don already reach ...... FA cup on my mind!

me too o,i can,t wait to see the back of chelstinks and their dirty fans

@Coogar
Ferguson has already said Giggs will not feature in Sunday's match, and Wayne is gonna start.
Why are you being so moved about this. . .did you lose a huge bet, perhaps?

Cristalz: @Coogar
Ferguson has already said Giggs will not feature in Sunday's match, and Wayne is gonna start.
Why are you being so moved about this. . .did you lose a huge bet, perhaps?

i lost a huge sum.

Figures. It's called taking one for the team...pele .

Just thinking, how do our arguments end?
I can't ever remember an argument we had with a conclusion

---

............ Against Real Madrid on Tuesday night, the Manchester United striker was a peripheral figure. His influence on the game came only in brief, disappointing flashes – a scuffed cross-cum-shot volley easily blocked by Sergio Ramos followed soon after by a comedy overhead kick attempt.

The miskicks at Old Trafford were unfortunate, but not as costly as his miss in the first leg at the Santiago Bernabeu Stadium. In behind the defence, the Dutchman expertly chested the ball down and cocked his trusty left foot – mortgages across the nation would have been wagered on the ball nestling in the far corner ......

............. The 29-year-old’s misfiring outings against Los Blancos extended his worst run of form since the start of the 2010-11 season, when injury still plagued him (he didn’t play a full 90 minutes until December that year). He has scored just one goal in his last eight appearances, a period just shy of 50 days, and has failed to find the back of the net in his previous five games (his sole contribution being an assist against Norwich last Saturday) ......

.......... United needed Van Persie’s goals more than ever against Madrid, yet he was at his most profligate. Likewise, for Arsenal, he struggled to replicate his domestic dominance in the Champions League, firing only blanks in San Siro last season having been acrimoniously dismissed at the Camp Nou a year earlier.......

Emperoh: Just thinking, how do our arguments end?
I can't ever remember an argument we had with a conclusion

Usually ends after a victory, hopefully after we pummel chelstink on sunday some nerves would have somehow been soothed.

Truthfully argument no dey end it just fades away.

Thank you nitlad.
My point exactly about van Persie.
Just a Premier League striker that goes missing in big games in Europe in my view.

So I'm wondering whether it was worth buying him.

A solid middle man woulda done United better than van Persie abeg.

coogar:
and you don't think the inept performance could have stemmed from the fact that van persie had a mediocre partner in welbeck. our most potent performances this season had rooney dovetailing van persie. i reiterate, watch the away games at city, chelsea, newcastle, etc.

Inept striker scored at the Bernabeu.
The accurate one fluffed three good chances in the same game.
you tell us who among the two in the two ties was inept.
Inept Striker prevented the accurate one from hitting target by scuffing his shot tamely off target.

that article is rubbish - i cannot fault van persie's effort in those 2 legs. defensive football takes out creative players from the game. against barcelona and bayern last season, juan mata was humongously useless too - the tactics play a huge role. with 2 linear wingers and wayne rooney dovetailing, van persie would have scored 2-3 goals in both legs.

StarBoard: Thank you nitlad.
My point exactly about van Persie.
Just a Premier League striker that goes missing in big games in Europe in my view. So I'm wondering whether it was worth buying him. A solid middle man woulda done United better than van Persie abeg.

like ronaldo went missing in the 2 legs semi-final battle against barcelona? if you set up defensively, it's a futile exercise having creative players on the pitch.

Inept striker scored at the Bernabeu.
The accurate one fluffed three good chances in the same game.
you tell us who among the two in the two ties was inept.
Inept Striker prevented the accurate one from hitting target by scuffing his shot tamely off target.

inept striker scored from a cornerkick - hardly any brilliant play. good delivery meets a good header from 4 yards. you are wondering whether we should have bought van persie? well - the stats are there for you to see. his goals, his assists, last minute winners!

coogar: that article is rubbish - i cannot fault van persie's effort in those 2 legs. defensive football takes out creative players from the game. against barcelona and bayern last season, juan mata was humongously useless too - the tactics play a huge role. with 2 linear wingers and wayne rooney dovetailing, van persie would have scored 2-3 goals in both legs.

Unfortunately, the tactics were responsible for the misses that could have gotten us through especially when put through on goal.
Unfortunately his Champions League record is something we should wave aside, even if it is a glaring fact.

StarBoard:
Unfortunately, the tactics were responsible for the misses that could have gotten us through especially when put through on goal.
Unfortunately his Champions League record is something we should wave aside, even if it is a glaring fact.

the tactics limited the number of clear-cut chances united would have had in games such as this one. strikers don't have more than 20-30% conversion rate. it means van persie would only score 2-3 goals in 10 chances.

ronaldo scored only 2 goals in more than 30 shots he had against man utd!

RVP is just like Zlatan, setting domestic leagues alight, but freezes out on the big European nights!

nitlad: RVP is just like Zlatan, setting domestic leagues alight, but freezes out on the big European nights!

that is the same van persie that bailed us out in the away games in the group stage of the same competition. working brilliantly in tandem with rooney and brushing the opposition aside. strikers don't fail in big games - the tactics get altered mostly by the managers!

can we say mata froze in last season's champions league when chelsea only managed 28% possession home and away? is that mata's fault?

coogar:

that is the same van persie that bailed us out in the away games in the group stage of the same competition. working brilliantly in tandem with rooney and brushing the opposition aside. strikers don't fail in big games - the tactics get altered mostly by the managers!

can we say mata froze in last season's champions league when chelsea only managed 28% possession home and away? is that mata's fault?

Ogbeni, talking bout 'Big European Nights', I'm talking about showdowns between the who's who, and crème de la crème of the game. Ibra has been a bottler in those kinda games, so has RVP! United vs Cluj would hardly get Busby Way to hold breath in attention, not to talk of the rest of the footballing world!

nitlad:
Ogbeni, talking bout 'Big European Nights', I'm talking about showdowns between the who's who, and crème de la crème of the game. Ibra has been a bottler in those kinda games, so has RVP! United vs Cluj would hardly get Busby Way to hold breath in attention, not to talk of the rest of the footballing world!

this is laughable!

those showdowns are always tight affairs with fine margins and even then RVP has scores his own share of goals in big games. he scored 3 goals against dortmund last season at arsenal, scored against ac milan - do they qualify as big games?

in the penultimate season, he scored a winner against barcelona at the emirates - is that a big game? he didn't participate in 09/10 because of injuries that limited his appearances. in 08/09, he scored against man utd in the semis at the emirates - is that a big game?

coogar:

this is laughable!

those showdowns are always tight affairs with fine margins and even then RVP has scores his own share of goals in big games. he scored 3 goals against dortmund last season at arsenal, scored against ac milan d- do they qualify as big games?

in the penultimate season, he scored a winner against barcelona at the emirates - is that a big game? he didn't participate in 09/10 because of injuries that limited his appearances. in 08/09, he scored against man utd in the semis at the emirates - is that a big game?

This is the point I'm trying to underline;

........ United needed Van Persie’s goals more than ever against Madrid, yet he was at his most profligate. Likewise, for Arsenal, he struggled to replicate his domestic dominance in the Champions League, firing only blanks in San Siro last season having been acrimoniously dismissed at the Camp Nou a year earlier .....

Rooney's goal against Barca at Wembley is hardly regarded as a career high, but was/still being eulogized to high heavens for the ruthless manner with which he vanquished Milan 3 years ago!

Arising from the fore-going I can boldly say RVP has not proven his mettle yet in the grandest manner possible on the continent!

coogar: this is laughable!

those showdowns are always tight affairs with fine margins and even then RVP has scores his own share of goals in big games. he scored 3 goals against dortmund last season at arsenal, scored against ac milan - do they qualify as big games?

in the penultimate season, he scored a winner against barcelona at the emirates - is that a big game? he didn't participate in 09/10 because of injuries that limited his appearances. in 08/09, he scored against man utd in the semis at the emirates - is that a big game?

He was the most wasteful vs AC Milan and should be blamed for their exit.

Scored the winning goal vs Barcelona? Was that not Arshavin

i just hope we get the required result and progress to the semis of the FA cup on sunday. van Persie should get some rest now, Chicharito should get playing time. I pray we don't lose him after the end of this season, as well as Nani.

nitlad:
This is the point I'm trying to underline;
Rooney's goal against Barca at Wembley is hardly regarded as a career high, but was/still being eulogized to high heavens for the ruthless manner with which he vanquished Milan 3 years ago!

like i said, the tactics had a lot to do with those games. united were bold against ac milan home and away. wingers played where they were supposed to play and the midfielders played where they should be. no special plan to shackle pirlo or shackle ronaldinho! a manager must believe in his team at this level! fergie paid too much respect to madrid!

Arising from the fore-going I can boldly say RVP has not proven his mettle yet in the grandest manner possible on the continent!

who has done that @ arsenal? since the henry era, which arsenal player has proved his mettle in elite europe? this is a witchhunt!

dayokanu:
He was the most wasteful vs AC Milan and should be blamed for their exit.

without van persie, they wouldn't even have qualified to play ac milan in the first place. he literally carried arsenal on his back single-handedly!

Scored the winning goal vs Barcelona? Was that not Arshavin

i cannot remember vividly - whether it was the 2-1 game or the 2-2 duel. i remember van persie bending one into valdez's net with his left foot. those 2 clubs played plenty of games within a short frame of time.

the first half of the one that ended 2-2 was the best 45 mins of a football game in the history of football! barcelona were humongously scary. the passing, class and panache was just top draw.

coogar:

like i said, the tactics had a lot to do with those games. united were bold against ac milan home and away. wingers played where they were supposed to play and the midfielders played where they should be. no special plan to shackle pirlo or shackle ronaldinho! a manager must believe in his team at this level! fergie paid too much respect to madrid!

Wasn't Park played in the center for that specific reason (to limit/shackle Pirlo), after which he got rave reviews, despite SAF leaving £30m Berba out of both games. Don't try and rewrite history.