buzugee: when i say testament, i mean, the book is continuos. old -apocrypha-new. it seems like it is old and new because the apocrypha was taken out of it. [size=15pt]convenant is different from testament.[/size]

Explain the words in RED. You are in soup tonight. If i can't finish with you, i will continue when i wake up.okay

Hebrews 8:8-12
King James Version (KJV)
8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

see, without reading the bible in its entirety, a lot of things i say may sound crazy to lots of people. when you read the apocrypha, it actually describes how the israelites were living before the invasions of the greek. everything was free. this was because they hadnt fallen out with God. as soon as they fell out, they lost their power. the greeks came in and put payments on everything they consumed ( all orchestrated by the lord of course ). so 'payments' is a symptom of the fall of man from heaven to the earth. or from heaven to hell. without the apocrypha, i am just a mad man because a lot of you havent even read the old testament, let alone the apocrypha. so folks are in a lost world.

Goshen360:

Explain the words in RED. You are in soup tonight. If i can't finish with you, i will continue when i wake up.okay

Hebrews 8:8-12
King James Version (KJV)
8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

i aint trying to get technical with words. the point i am making is that when you put the apocrypha where it was taken out ( between malachi and matthew ), it is one continuous read from genesis to maccabees.

Buzugee,

You are just running and turning in circle, dodging my questions. You have to be really careful with these stuffs you read. Seriously. It's not your problem if a lot of folks had read the OT or not to talk of this "apocrypha" of yours/you guys. It's the validity of these books we are talking about.

Second. I told you testament, covenant, agreement and a Will - all means same thing and you said it's NOT. I asked you to explain, you said you are not going into word technicalities. How do you even understand the bible when you don't study word context along the reading/text? How?

Third, I asked you to quote anywhere from this "apocrypha" of yours where reference was made by Jesus or any of the Apostles so we can at least validate this "apocrypha", you are dodging around.

Kindly prove these books of "apocrypha" by quoting any of the books where jesus made reference to any of them and explain the how you meant by covenant is different to a testament OR.......

buzugee: building you up for the kingdom. its part of the being tested and refined process. you gotta be purified before you can get in. he purifies with tribulations and suffereing. however if you get to the level of righteousness he likes, you stop getting purified and tested. your life becomes a bed of roses. see, trials and tribulations are punishment tools to get you to behave right.

How can punishment after one is dead without recourse to parole be considered as building someone up for the kingdom? Or do you think burning in hell is being tested and refined?
Or do you think paying one's bill on earth here is punishment? I consider it payment for services rendered. If one receives electricity or water from the state, they pay for such amenities.

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@ LoJ,

Okay. Thanks.

Goshen360: Buzugee,

You are just running and turning in circle, dodging my questions. You have to be really careful with these stuffs you read. Seriously. It's not your problem if a lot of folks had read the OT or not to talk of this "apocrypha" of yours/you guys. It's the validity of these books we are talking about.

Second. I told you testament, covenant, agreement and a Will - all means same thing and you said it's NOT. I asked you to explain, you said you are not going into word technicalities. How do you even understand the bible when you don't study word context along the reading/text? How?

Third, I asked you to quote anywhere from this "apocrypha" of yours where reference was made by Jesus or any of the Apostles so we can at least validate this "apocrypha", you are dodging around.

Kindly prove these books of "apocrypha" by quoting any of the books where jesus made reference to any of them and explain the how you meant by covenant is different to a testament OR.......

General Goshen, the point here is i cant spoonfeed you about the validity of the apocrypha. you have to do that research on your own but the point here is the apocrypha was a part of the bible from the 1600s up until 100 years ago. so what all of a sudden made it invalid in the past 100 years ? i have read the book and it sounds valid and is historically accurate with history books and from the information in it, i can see why the europeans will want it removed. in the apocrypha is a prophesy that the europeans will try to whitewash history. 1 maccabees 3 vs 48 And laid open the book of the law, wherein the heathen had sought to paint the likeness of their images. thats called ICONOCLASM. its a prophesy that came true. thats why we all worship a white jesus and think the jews are white. but i digress, stop splitting hairs on technicalities between words. does not matter to me if testament or convenant mean the same thing or different things. its irrelevant. drop that pointless angle

thehomer:

How can punishment after one is dead without recourse to parole be considered as building someone up for the kingdom? Or do you think burning in hell is being tested and refined?
Or do you think paying one's bill on earth here is punishment? I consider it payment for services rendered. If one receives electricity or water from the state, they pay for such amenities.

you reincarnate back into the world every 3rd or 4th generation.

LoJ: Hello To all of you guys!



There is a big difference between testament and convenant.

A Covenant is an agreement between two or more people. However, testament derives from Testamentus that comes from Testis = to witness.

A testament is a testimony of the will of someone made clear so that it might be well understood by whom it is due to. With the Bible, GOD gave us his testaments so that if we agree to submit to his will, we enter into a covenant with HIM. So there's a BIG DIFFERENCE.



Your reasoning is wrong for many reasons. First of all, there are reference of some apocrypha books in the Bible (In the book of Jude and in the book of Peter).

Secondly, not every book of the bible has been validated that way. In fact, most books did not. Did JESUS or any of the apostles quoted the book of Habacuc? Abdias? Nahum?

Did you know that the book of Hebrews has been rejected by a majority in the early church?

- I'm not trying to validate the Apocrypha books. They are good books just as any other and might be read for personal knowledge with a discerning spirit. But my point is to show the irrelevance of your argument(s). -

LoJ

Thanks Brother Loj. Always dropping great insights and knowledge as ususal.

buzugee: you reincarnate back into the world every 3rd or 4th generation.

Huh? What idea of Christianity are you pushing? Or aren't you a Christian?

thehomer:

Huh? What idea of Christianity are you pushing? Or aren't you a Christian?

You think you die and thats it forever ? come on now. the bible is about reincarnation. john the baptist reincarnated as elijah etc etc . i aint pushing xtianity. and no i aint one either. i am my own man

@ buzugee,

Thanks also. I think I should give it a shot considering your advice and also that of LoJ. How do I get the hard copy in english version of online version. Expecting your feedback. Thanks

Goshen360: @ buzugee,

Thanks also. I think I should give it a shot considering your advice and also that of LoJ. How do I get the hard copy in english version of online version. Expecting your feedback. Thanks

Hey Brother Goshen, good news is you do not have to buy it. This is it here http://www.artbible.info/bible/apocrypha.html

let me give you great advice, should in case you are one of these people who get bored easily when reading. start with these 2 books. 2nd esdras and ecclesiasticus (also known as sirach ). those two books will draw you in and then you cant stop after that.

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LoJ: Hello Buzugee!

What you're saying concerning the apocrypha is not enterely true. In fact, there are many things you've said that are untrue...

1- First of all, there are many other aprocrypha' books. Why did you choose only those ones? There's the book of Henoc. There's even a Third book of Esdras. Etc.

2- The apocrypha books were not removed because of white men domination. That's wrong... In fact, there are still very available to whomever really wants to read them. I read of it so I know what I'm talking about.

It is the Jewish Doctors of the law that established the fact that the First (or old) convenant was made of 39 books. Should we believed them? I choosed to believe them because salvation comes from the Jews. You choosed not to believe their classification just as the roman catholics and orthodox (and many other) did. Well, that's your choice.

But why then do you limit yourself to those apocrypha books? Do you know there are many others? Why don't you add them? Why do you stop at 2 Maccabees?

LoJ

those books were removed by the biblICAL DESTRUCTION GROUP to preserve white superiority. Brother you need to do some research.

and this is the one that counts http://www.cambridgebibles.com/ME2/Audiences/dirmod.asp?sid=0477683E4046471488BD7BAC8DCFB004&nm=&type=PubCom&mod=PubComProductCatalog&mid=BF1316AF9E334B7BA1C33CB61CF48A4E&tier=3&id=FFA36B605AF749AB9A76644E03A0063C&AudId=116B299113AB4B03B40CDA7EB43417EC


and those jewish doctors you believe in are khazars. they are not the real jews. the real jews ARE BLACK. not WHITE. SO YOU ARE BASICALLY PUTTING YOUR TRUST IN IMPOSTORS. THAT IS NOT A SMART THING TO DO BROTHER LOJ

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buzugee: You think you die and thats it forever ? come on now. the bible is about reincarnation. john the baptist reincarnated as elijah etc etc . i aint pushing xtianity. and no i aint one either. i am my own man

Well yes. When you die, that is the end. Elijah was before John the baptist so I think you have it the wrong way around.
Also, if you're your own man, why are presenting the Bible as an authority?

LoJ: Hello Buzugee!

What you call research is listenning to some youtube videos and listenning to the speeches of some african american "enlighten" men?

I have studied the question of the apocrypha since I'm 18 years old.

Cheers

LoJ

You have studied the question of the apocrypha since you were eighteen and you still havent come to the truth ? what are ya ? slow or something ? try some gingko biloba my brother Loj. it is known to amp the brain up.

thehomer:

Well yes. When you die, that is the end. Elijah was before John the baptist so I think you have it the wrong way around.
Also, if you're your own man, why are presenting the Bible as an authority?

matthew 11 vs 14 and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come you see the reincarnation in that statement ? just because i am my own man does not mean i dont need rules and regulations and instructions in how i should conduct myself on earth. thats what the bible is for.

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buzugee: matthew 11 vs 14 and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come you see the reincarnation in that statement ? just because i am my own man does not mean i dont need rules and regulations and instructions in how i should conduct myself on earth. thats what the bible is for.

And you think the Bible is the best source of this information?

LoJ:

I don't know what gingko biloba is. I'm not a Nigerian...

Anyway, this does not answer my questions. To refresh your mind:

1- Did you know there are many other apocrypha's books?

2- If you knew, why did you stop at 2 macabees?

so where are you from ? neptune ? i digress. the apocrypha has been compiled into an individuasl book called the KING JAMES APOCRYPHA. thats all you need. read it here http://www.artbible.info/bible/apocrypha.html

thehomer:

And you think the Bible is the best source of this information?

yezzur. you got any better options ?

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LoJ:

Very Funny!

The first person to compil apocrypha books was Martin Luther the german reformer. And He deliberately choosed some, and left others. Later on, when the King James Version was to be printed in 1611, it just took over what had already been done by Martin Luther. You're the one that needs to carry out research my friend...

Moreover, you must know that at the beginning, the apocrypha books were not grouped in a unique book. It was just mingled and mixed with the other books according to their nature. For instance, Wisdom of Solomon would be associated to the poetic books, and so forth. It is first of all Martin Luther that seperated them and placed them apart so that all may know they were not accepted by the Church, thus following the example of Jerome.

So there are many other apocrypha books left over such as Testament of Zebulon, 3 and 4 Esdras, etc.

Finally, do you know that many of the apocrypha books you claim to believe in are against some of your doctrines? For example the book of second esdras (that I read many times) contradicts many of your doctrines: It contradicts your idea of Heaven being a position rather that a place, it's against the end time the way you teach it.

and it tells things that are far more insane than what you blame religous for. For example it says that girls will be pregnant at the age of 4 years old at the end time.

Did you read that?


LoJ

You are trying too hard to sound intelligent. listen, the relevant books of the apocrypha have been compiled into a book by itself. focus on that. if you dont have it here is an online copy for your edification http://www.artbible.info/bible/apocrypha.html

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LoJ:

Hello Buzugee!

It is telling you the truth that you call trying to sound intelligent? Very funny!

Now I understand you: You mock at others when (you think) they ignore - Everybody on this forum knows you for that- and when you are found ignorant, you feel lower? No you shouldn't!



Why relevant? On what basis they are considered more relevant than the others? Do you now see that you think just like any other religious man? GOD is trinity focus on that. Heaven is above, focus on that. Hell is, satan is, JESUS is, ... focus on that.

Now if you are objective, you'll now see that you get to the same point than the early church: the choice. The Jews had to choose among a bunch of books which ones were divinely inspired. If you criticize their choice, now explain why yours is better.

I take corrections if it is appropriate and genuine. however most people i encounter are not trying to make corrections to me. they are simply trying to oppose just for the sake of opposing. and i have to respond appropriately

LoJ: And in case, you didn't notice or are trying to avoid the question I said:

"Finally, do you know that many of the apocrypha books you claim to believe in are against some of your doctrines? For example the book of second esdras (that I read many times) contradicts many of your doctrines: It contradicts your idea of Heaven being a position rather than a place, it's against the end time the way you teach it.

and it tells things that are far more insane than what you blame religious for. For example it says that girls will be pregnant at the age of 4 when the end time comes.

Did you read that?"

can you please show me the verse in 2 esdras were it contradicts Gods idea of heaven. i will be waiting patiently. can you also show me where it says girls will be pregnant at age 4. i would love to see that. I will hop out for a bit as i have a meeting of sorts but will come back to answer it in 4 hours time. hopefully you have responded with the verses

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