1) Let's start with christians on Nairaland; they claim that their religion gives them a sense of morality. A person with good morals treat people with fairness; they are fair.

-Consindering the above statement, do you really think it is fair to have a [size=14pt]"religion"[/size] section for all religions then turn it into a christian section by making it constant that the first two threads are christian threads? The threads are the christian fellowship thread and the "have you praised him yet" thread. Remember that it clearly states on the religion section that it is for sharing faith/belief in God or other higher powers- therefore it is for all religions

-Also, hypocrisy is immoral. Why complain about the muslims bullying for their own section while you bully others on this section?



2) As for the muslims on Nairaland who claim to be moral and fair;

-Do you really think it is fair to have your own section? To get preference over other religions? Look at the world today, this isolationism has not helped muslims. Jews will stand with christains, bhuddist with christians etc while muslims stand alone. People have stopped caring about the injustice in the middle east.

-Furthermore, I have been reading past posts on the separate muslim section. Please correct me if I am wrong but I am yet to see any muslim denouncing the threats that the owner/moderator of Nairaland recieved in order to get the muslim section. Why should there be threats in the first place? Or am I wrong were there no threats?

-Also, the blatant cowardice and deceptive methods used to avoid criticism in the muslim section is disgusting. The avoidance of many critical threads on islam is one thing but to deceptively change thread titles to suit the moderator's feelings is another. The christians are at least always up for a debate/bible bashing.




Should we get an atheist section?

Any questions/answers?

Thinking... am i moral...

hisblud: Thinking... am i moral...

When you are sure that you're moral comeback and give na answer

logicboy: 1) Let's start with christians on Nairaland; they claim that their religion gives them a sense of morality. A person with good morals treat people with fairness; they are fair.

-Consindering the above statement, do you really think it is fair to have a [size=14pt]"religion"[/size] section for all religions then turn it into a christian section by making it constant that the first two threads are christian threads? The threads are the christian fellowship thread and the "have you praised him yet" thread. Remember that it clearly states on the religion section that it is for sharing faith/belief in God or other higher powers- therefore it is for all religions

-Also, hypocrisy is immoral. Why complain about the muslims bullying for their own section while you bully others on this section?



2) As for the muslims on Nairaland who claim to be moral and fair;

-Do you really think it is fair to have your own section? To get preference over other religions? Look at the world today, this isolationism has not helped muslims. Jews will stand with christains, bhuddist with christians etc while muslims stand alone. People have stopped caring about the injustice in the middle east.

-Furthermore, I have been reading past posts on the separate muslim section. Please correct me if I am wrong but I am yet to see any muslim denouncing the threats that the owner/moderator of Nairaland recieved in order to get the muslim section. Why should there be threats in the first place? Or am I wrong were there no threats?

-Also, the blatant cowardice and deceptive methods used to avoid criticism in the muslim section is disgusting. The avoidance of many critical threads on islam is one thing but to deceptively change thread titles to suit the moderator's feelings is another. The christians are at least always up for a debate/bible bashing.




Should we get an atheist section?

I am yet to find a so-called Athiest, whose reasoning isn't flawed. There is this gaping 'hole', they invariably fail to see in their address of faith.

As your name implies youngman, i reckon you think you have found that profound practical knowledge that makes you immune to Faith?

Even believing in no God is a trial of 'Faith' in itself. Because you will always probe God, you are ever probing His works to discount it, keep searching you will find HIM, all i ask is probe with an even mind, logic demands it!

timchuks87:

I am yet to find a so-called Athiest, whose reasoning isn't flawed. There is this gaping 'hole', they invariably fail to see in their address of faith.

As your name implies youngman, i reckon you think you have found that profound practical knowledge that makes you immune to Faith?

Even believing in no God is a trial of 'Faith' in itself. Because you will always probe God, you are ever probing His works to discount it, keep searching you will find HIM, all i ask is probe with an even mind, logic demands it!

Thank you for not addressing the subject- immorality of christians


As for your flawed logic, it's time for debunking;

-Disbelief in God is not faith! There is no proof of God and therefore it is logical not to believe in God. Your god has the same amount of proof as big foot and unicorns

-Why do I have to search for an omniscient/omnipotent God that is everywhere? God must be a great omni-coward.

logicboy:



2) As for the muslims on Nairaland who claim to be moral and fair;

-Do you really think it is fair to have your own section? To get preference over other religions? Look at the world today, this isolationism has not helped muslims. Jews will stand with christains, bhuddist with christians etc while muslims stand alone. People have stopped caring about the injustice in the middle east.

Seun made that childboard for muslims, why are you asking if we think it is fair? It is Seun's decision, our thinking it's fair or unfair doesn't make any difference.

logicboy:
-Furthermore, I have been reading past posts on the separate muslim section. Please correct me if I am wrong but I am yet to see any muslim denouncing the threats that the owner/moderator of Nairaland recieved in order to get the muslim section. Why should there be threats in the first place? Or am I wrong were there no threats?

yup, there was a threat, and the muslims who spoke against it did so on the thread. Did you find that thread where Seun said he was threatened and posted the email containing the threat?
That happened about four years ago, do you honestly think people will still continue making threads till today to condemn that threat? People have forgotten it man, scroll back to threads made in 2007/2008, you might find a post condemning it.

logicboy: -Also, the blatant cowardice and deceptive methods used to avoid criticism in the muslim section is disgusting. The avoidance of many critical threads on islam is one thing but to deceptively change thread titles to suit the moderator's feelings is another. The christians are at least always up for a debate/bible bashing.

Muslims are not up for Qur'an 'bashing'. Whatever that means. It is common place on NL for non-muslims to utter many offensive insults to not just musli ms, but also prophet Muhammed (SAW) and Allah. This is something we find offensive and will never be able to accept. That is why mods are careful, and maybe change the title of threads to a more suitable one.

logicboy:

Should we get an atheist section?

Ask your atheist brother seun.

timchuks87:

I am yet to find a so-called Athiest, whose reasoning isn't flawed. There is this gaping 'hole', they invariably fail to see in their address of faith.

As your name implies youngman, i reckon you think you have found that profound practical knowledge that makes you immune to Faith?

Even believing in no God is a trial of 'Faith' in itself. Because you will always probe God, you are ever probing His works to discount it, keep searching you will find HIM, all i ask is probe with an even mind, logic demands it!

1) You did not address the subject of the thread

2) Disbelief in God is not faith. There is no evidence for God. You can believe in a negative or nothing.

3) If God is omnipotent/omniscient and everywhere, why do I need to search for him? Omni-cowardice?

Sometimes a man's definition of morality could be different from the other man's definition and understanding through cultural, beliefs and enviroment. So your feelings about what is moral could be subjective atimes and might not be acceptable by some few or even many, so the best thing is to understand and respect people's opinion and either leave it or live by it since you were not induced or propelled to act against your will.

Do rules make people Moral or do moral people follow the rules (even when it is against good will sometimes)?

brainpulse: Sometimes a man's definition of morality could be different from the other man's definition and understanding through cultural, beliefs and enviroment. So your feelings about what is moral could be subjective atimes and might not be acceptable by some few or even many, so the best thing is to understand and respect people's opinion and either leave it or live by it since you were not induced or propelled to act against your will.

Do rules make people Moral or do moral people follow the rules (even when it is against good will sometimes)?

Yes, morality is subjective.

However, when someone's opinions and actions impose on my own rights, it is not to be ignored.

fellis:

Seun made that childboard for muslims, why are you asking if we think it is fair? It is Seun's decision, our thinking it's fair or unfair doesn't make any difference.

And how did you get that muslim section? Was it fair that threats had to be made to get it? Asking if it is fair makes a difference, by avoiding the obvious answer only shows how deceptive some religious people are.

How can it be fair that one religion gets special treatment?

fellis:
yup, there was a threat, and the muslims who spoke against it did so on the thread. Did you find that thread where Seun said he was threatened and posted the email containing the threat?
That happened about four years ago, do you honestly think people will still continue making threads till today to condemn that threat? People have forgotten it man, scroll back to threads made in 2007/2008, you might find a post condemning it.

Did you complain against the threat? Did you denounce it? I have been searching and havent found posts condemning it. However, I might find it.

fellis:
Muslims are not up for Qur'an 'bashing'. Whatever that means. It is common place on NL for non-muslims to utter many offensive insults to not just musli ms, but also prophet Muhammed (SAW) and Allah. This is something we find offensive and will never be able to accept. That is why mods are careful, and maybe change the title of threads to a more suitable one.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. When claiming that Your religion is the one true religion and Muhammad is a holy prophet, you should be ready to expect criticism and doubt. People are going to put muhammed's life and the Quran to scrutiny. They are going to ask; was muhammad's life sinful, did muhammadv have many wives, did muhammad have slaves, was muhammaed telling the truth, ithe quran truthful, is the quran fair to women, etc

Blasphemy laws are almost dead in the West. The only ;aws that could protect religion are hate speech. If some writes an article on Jesus's avoidance of talking about slavery, he wouldnt be killed in the West or arrested because the person is writing something factual. Should someone in a sharia country ask if Muhammad had slaves and why the Koran regulates slavery instead of calling it haraam, the person would be killed or live a very long time in prison.

My problem is not with muslims in general. My problem arises when people infringe on my rights;

-u have every right to follow your religion, and Ievery right to tell you that it is false, the same way you say that christianity/paganism are false without being killed

-u have every right to spread your religion and i have every right to tell everyone about atheism. I wnder if I hae that right under sharia.

fellis:
Ask your atheist brother seun.

logicboy:

And how did you get that muslim section? Was it fair that threats had to be made to get it? Asking if it is fair makes a difference, by avoiding the obvious answer only shows how deceptive some religious people are.

How can it be fair that one religion gets special treatment?

How does it make a difference? Are you expecting me to tell you that it isn't fair and Muslims shouldn't have their own section? Ok. Fine. Logicboy, It is unfair. Muslims should not have their own section while others share. It is soooooo unfair.
There.
Now please show me the difference it made.
I and other people on this forum can repeat that it unfair from now till tomorrow, unless seun decides to remove it or give others their own sections, nothing will change. That's why I said it makes no difference.[/quote]

logicboy:
Did you complain against the threat? Did you denounce it? I have been searching and havent found posts condemning it. However, I might find it.

Keep searching. I highly doubt that Seun deleted the posts. I did not condemn the threat, I was a child then and more of an observer on NL. Didn't post a lot.
[/quote]

logicboy:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. When claiming that Your religion is the one true religion and Muhammad is a holy prophet, you should be ready to expect criticism and doubt. People are going to put muhammed's life and the Quran to scrutiny. They are going to ask; was muhammad's life sinful, did muhammadv have many wives, did muhammad have slaves, was muhammaed telling the truth, ithe quran truthful, is the quran fair to women, etc

You are right, people will ask questions when you present unusual info to them and ask them to accept. The thing is that, people fail to ask questions in a civil manner. They do so by insulting things they know are sacred to Muslims and uttering profanities. That is why their posts are edited. You can be curious but express your curiosity in a civilized manner.

logicboy:
Blasphemy laws are almost dead in the West. The only ;aws that could protect religion are hate speech. If some writes an article on Jesus's avoidance of talking about slavery, he wouldnt be killed in the West or arrested because the person is writing something factual. Should someone in a sharia country ask if Muhammad had slaves and why the Koran regulates slavery instead of calling it haraam, the person would be killed or live a very long time in prison.

Really? I didn't know that. I guess they do that because they have laws that forbid such things in their countries since the countries are predominantly Muslim. If anyone wants to write material that is considered blasphemous in that a particular country, he should move to another country to do that. A secular country like France for instance does not permit wearing skull caps by jews and hijabs by Muslims in schools, if anyone wants to do these things, they have the freedom to move to another country instead of whining about it.

logicboy:
My problem is not with muslims in general. My problem arises when people infringe on my rights;

-u have every right to follow your religion, and Ievery right to tell you that it is false, the same way you say that christianity/paganism are false without being killed

-u have every right to spread your religion and i have every right to tell everyone about atheism. I wnder if I hae that right under sharia.

Yes, you have the right to do what the law of the land permits. If you're not happy about the laws, move your asss elsewhere.

fellis:
How does it make a difference? Are you expecting me to tell you that it isn't fair and Muslims shouldn't have their own section? Ok. Fine. Logicboy, It is unfair. Muslims should not have their own section while others share. It is soooooo unfair.
There.
Now please show me the difference it made.
I and other people on this forum can repeat that it unfair from now till tomorrow, unless seun decides to remove it or give others their own sections, nothing will change. That's why I said it makes no difference.




Did you complain against the threat? Did you denounce it? I have been searching and havent found posts condemning it. However, I might find it.
Keep searching. I highly doubt that Seun deleted the posts. I did not condemn the threat, I was a child then and more of an observer on NL. Didn't post a lot.



Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. When claiming that Your religion is the one true religion and Muhammad is a holy prophet, you should be ready to expect criticism and doubt. People are going to put muhammed's life and the Quran to scrutiny. They are going to ask; was muhammad's life sinful, did muhammadv have many wives, did muhammad have slaves, was muhammaed telling the truth, ithe quran truthful, is the quran fair to women, etc
You are right, people will ask questions when you present unusual info to them and ask them to accept. The thing is that, people fail to ask questions in a civil manner. They do so by insulting things they know are sacred to Muslims and uttering profanities. That is why their posts are edited. You can be curious but express your curiosity in a civilized manner.

Blasphemy laws are almost dead in the West. The only ;aws that could protect religion are hate speech. If some writes an article on Jesus's avoidance of talking about slavery, he wouldnt be killed in the West or arrested because the person is writing something factual. Should someone in a sharia country ask if Muhammad had slaves and why the Koran regulates slavery instead of calling it haraam, the person would be killed or live a very long time in prison.
Really? I didn't know that. I guess they do that because they have laws that forbid such things in their countries since the countries are predominantly Muslim. If anyone wants to write material that is considered blasphemous in that a particular country, he should move to another country to do that. A secular country like France for instance does not permit wearing skull caps by jews and hijabs by Muslims in schools, if anyone wants to do these things, they have the freedom to move to another country instead of whining about it.

My problem is not with muslims in general. My problem arises when people infringe on my rights;

-u have every right to follow your religion, and Ievery right to tell you that it is false, the same way you say that christianity/paganism are false without being killed

-u have every right to spread your religion and i have every right to tell everyone about atheism. I wnder if I hae that right under sharia.


Yes, you have the right to do what the law of the land permits. If you're not happy about the laws, move your asss elsewhere.

Thank you for your answer, there is not much to debate here. You know that it is unfair for only muslims to have their own section

You also will not see anything wrong/unfair with Sharia law and so, I will leave it there for now

@timchuks87

I am yet to find a so-called Athiest, whose reasoning isn't flawed.

This is coming from someone who doesn't see anything wrong in Abraham beheading his own son all in a bid to show his "faith" in what he believed in.

There is this gaping 'hole', they invariably fail to see in their address of faith.

Google up the definition of Atheism and educate yourself my friend. Atheism has nothing to do with faith.

As your name implies youngman, i reckon you think you have found that profound practical knowledge that makes you immune to Faith?

No OLD MAN! He is bold enough to make use of his common sense rather than deluding himself with imaginary forces.

Even believing in no God is a trial of 'Faith' in itself.

Really? In what sense? Do you people think typing nonsense here makes a valid argument?

Because you will always probe God,

Which god? Is it the biblical one that says "thou shalt not kill" and yet urges "his people" to go to foriegn lands and annihilate every man,woman and child all in their insatiable greed for land that doesn't belong to them and as if that is not bad enough, he tells them to plunder their livestock and burn their cities to the ground. Is it that god you're talking about or the god of the moslems/buddhists or toasists? You deluded zombies all seem to think your biblical god is the only religious story been told. You seem to forget that if the slave traders hadn't come, you would still be worshiping Sango,Amadioha and Ogun like your forefathers did. If the raiding slave merchants from the middle east hadn't come, there would be no moslems in this geopolitical joke called Nigeria. Perhaps you need to enlighten your mind a bit more. The only reason you are a Christian today is because of slavery and isn't it funny that this religion was brought by the same people that took away your forefathers as slaves and on top of that, they brought in all sorts of vices which include illicit alcohol and guns (so that the tribal chiefs will kill of themselves in competition).

you are ever probing His works to discount it, keep searching you will find HIM, all i ask is probe with an even mind, logic demands it!

There is nothing to probe. Everything about Christianity (and other religions) is bull$hit and you have nothing to prove otherwise except come here to type sentiments and all sorts of nonsense!

Rubbish!!!

Logic and religion sha.

escobar07: Logic and religion sha.

logicboy:


Thank you for your answer, there is not much to debate here. You know that it is unfair for only muslims to have their own section

You also will not see anything wrong/unfair with Sharia law and so, I will leave it there for now

Complain to seun if you have a problem with that.

fellis:
Complain to seun if you have a problem with that.

Do you mean I should give Seun death threats? Is that what yo mean by "complaining"...

One of the reasons for the Islam for Muslims section was as the name implies, for muslims to discuss and interact on matters that concern them (as muslims).

I don't bother visiting a lot of sections 'cos of the 'terms of debate' a la arguments and curses. Unfortunately, just like Nigerians in real life, most are interested in showing how their religion is better than the other and never seeing any g in the word 'good' in other's beliefs. Everyone has different objectives and methods of how to 'enlighten and learn' on the internet but well, the setback of the net is that any Tomiwa, Dickson and Haruna can post anything behind a pc.

logicboy:

Do you mean I should give Seun death threats? Is that what yo mean by "complaining"...

logicboy how old are you?

Additionally, there were not any THREATS by Muslims for a separate thread. When Muslims wanna have discussions that requires the understanding of a Muslim, Mr. Davidylan appeared then to be someone who had an issue with that and kept posting 'counters' on every thread. To each his own.

Mustay: One of the reasons for the Islam for Muslims section was as the name implies, for muslims to discuss and interact on matters that concern them (as muslims).

I don't bother visiting a lot of sections 'cos of the 'terms of debate' a la arguments and curses. Unfortunately, just like Nigerians in real life, most are interested in showing how their religion is better than the other and never seeing any g in the word 'good' in other's beliefs. Everyone has different objectives and methods of how to 'enlighten and learn' on the internet but well, the setback of the net is that any Tomiwa, Dickson and Haruna can post anything behind a pc.

Either a section for all religions or each religion has its own section.


The muslim section will only act as as a testament to muslim intolerance.

fellis:
logicboy how old are you?

Old enough to make you see your position from a non-religious standpoint

Mustay: Additionally, there were not any THREATS by Muslims for a separate thread. When Muslims wanna have discussions that requires the understanding of a Muslim, Mr. Davidylan appeared then to be someone who had an issue with that and kept posting 'counters' on every thread. To each his own.

Stop lying! Even your fellow muslim has confirmed that there were threats!

As for Davidylan, each to his own.

^Mustay said that there were no threats by Muslims for a new section he didn't say there wasn't any threat at all. Stop accusing him of lying.

logicboy:


Old enough to make you see your position from a non-religious standpoint

No, seriously, how old are you? Because I never said I support anyone threatening Seun and here you are saying you want to make me see 'my position'.

fellis: ^Mustay said that there were no threats by Muslims for a new section he didn't say there wasn't any threat at all. Stop accusing him of lying.
No, seriously, how old are you? Because I never said I support anyone threatening Seun and here you are saying you want to make me see 'my position'.

That's the point weren't the threats there for a new section or am I wrong?

Who claimed that you supported threatening Seun? I was only asking for clarification

^ There was only one email, only one threat by only one person. At least that was what Seun said in that thread. And no, the person was not asking for a seperate section. He was asking Seun to do sth abt the way non-muslims throw insults at Muslims and everything they consider holy.
Seun started a new section cos he thought that would be a way to stop it.

What do you do to virus that refuses to die why trying to find the solution to finish it off?
You quarantine it.
That it what seun did to the islamic section. It has now become the most boring section on nl. i wonder what their paradise would look like.
i used to call seun all sorts of name for surrendering to their empty threats but with hindsight, i think this was a wise move. there is a need to separate the corn from the weed. despite all the drawbacks of christianity, it is not to be compared or mixed with a religion of hatred, intolerance, mistreatment, terrorism etc; not only in texts, but also in deeds.

As far as I know and being the first moderator there, Seun was not coerced or threatened to create that section. If someone else who says he/she is a Muslim threatened Seun, that I can't verify (and that's left for the owner to disclose) but am writing based on the interactions I had then with Seun as the object of that section. It's not everyone that wants to 'fight a supremacy war' or the sorts. Its purpose was for 'enlightenment' but like I wrote earlier, some people have different reasons for being online. If other faiths want their particular section, I see no problem with that but the problem is where/when mischievious people are always keen on derailing the section even when the 'reason' for the section is CLEAR. It's like writing about D' banj consistently in the Sports section.

fellis: ^ There was only one email, only one threat by only one person. At least that was what Seun said in that thread. And no, the person was not asking for a seperate section. He was asking Seun to do sth abt the way non-muslims throw insults at Muslims and everything they consider holy.
Seun started a new section cos he thought that would be a way to stop it.

Okay, and I stand corrected then.

Okay, one last question; did this while issue of threats, censorship and a separate thread showcase Islam in a good light?

Mustay: As far as I know and being the first moderator there, Seun was not coerced or threatened to create that section. If someone else who says he/she is a Muslim threatened Seun, that I can't verify (and that's left for the owner to disclose) but am writing based on the interactions I had then with Seun as the object of that section. It's not everyone that wants to 'fight a supremacy war' or the sorts. Its purpose was for 'enlightenment' but like I wrote earlier, some people have different reasons for being online. If other faiths want their particular section, I see no problem with that but the problem is where/when mischievious people are always keen on derailing the section even when the 'reason' for the section is CLEAR. It's like writing about D' banj consistently in the Sports section.

Thank you for your answer.

Even prophet Muhammad says that we should not be silent towards evil

4. "What actions are most excellent? To gladden the heart of human beings, to feed the hungry, to help the afflicted, to lighten the sorrow of the sorrowful, and to remove the sufferings of the injured." (Bukhari)

The purpose of me making this particular thread is for two things;

-I want to show that religous people can be immoral as well.
-the unfairness in the religion section in nairaland with bullying from both christians and muslims

What is your definition of "derailing". I am proud of derailing religious threads- I debunk lies about false miracles, tithing, morality, atheism etc. I derail by debunking and in that sense, derailing is not bad. Your definition is needed

logicboy:


Okay, and I stand corrected then.

Okay, one last question; did this while issue of threats, censorship and a separate thread showcase Islam in a good light?

This is a rhetorical question isn't it?