Zhul-fiqar:


People that have been programmed in Africa for centuries that there is only one Islam.when in fact the Islam they follow is a diluted one that has been tampered with.

my friend you can call me or if you are hateful you can refer to the entire Shia Muslims around the world,the different names you want.

you got to get one thing clear in your head.if following the commands of the Prophet (s) as he wanted us to do after his demise is sedition,then i am very proud to be called a "seditionist".that i proud of that.i hope you're satified.that is something i am proud of.

but in reality the true seditionists who strayed from the path and laid their grip on muslims and impose the teachings in Islam Muslims must follow ineither total disregard for the commands of the Prophet (sa) in Hadith ath-Thaqalain or concealing what the Prophet (s) ordered,are the people Sunnis generally have come to honor and hold in high esteem at expense of the words of the Prophet (s).

if you want to blackmail me,or using childish tactics to feign ignorance or trivilized a deep (Shia-Sunni) division over 1400 years old,then think again.

what i would sinecerely advice you Maclatunji to do and i doing it as a brother,is to find the issues of contention and sit down and research and read about them.remember,no knowledge is wasted.

bashy_demy: ^^ My Question is that are the Shia,Sunnis, Wahabis etc not the same Muslims? are they not practicing the same Islam? If you can enlihten me more.. Who is the Prophet of the Shia, of the Sunnis and of the Wahabis... this situation sometimes make me happy that i did not learn alot of Arabic in Arabic school back maybe i would have put myself in one of this section.

maclatunji:

LOL, let it be known that maclatunji has no problem with any individual or group based on their identity. However, I will not tolerate foul language, incitement and deliberate breaking of forum rules from any individual with no sentiments attached. Once we can follow the rules, we will have no problems.

Thank you.

maclatunji:

LOL, let it be known that maclatunji has no problem with any individual or group based on their identity. However, I will not tolerate foul language, incitement and deliberate breaking of forum rules from any individual with no sentiments attached. Once we can follow the rules, we will have no problems.

Thank you.

maclatunji:

LOL, let it be known that maclatunji has no problem with any individual or group based on their identity. However, I will not tolerate foul language, incitement and deliberate breaking of forum rules from any individual with no sentiments attached. Once we can follow the rules, we will have no problems.

Thank you.

Zhul-fiqar:


keep jumping or rather running from one lie to another.why is Vedaxcool is roaming the forum unchecked?what about BetaThing who would refer to an entire group of Muslims as idolaters?what are you doing?

shiloh: .
Am really disappointed in the OP....how can u say islam has two branches!!! Am really shocked!. Islam is islam....prophet muhammad s.a.w never said anything about sect during his
time,except dat it will crop up when d end time is near. And I guess dats what we r experiencing now. I don't knw why we have all dis Shia,Wahabis n Sunnist crap!! It doesn't make sense.

Then all dese animosity from u guys!! Damn!,is dat what prophet taught us?. Am shocked.

maclatunji:

I am sure the question is not meant for me because I don't recognise such divisions. We might want to ask OP to tell us about these 'divisions' because division seems to be his forte.

maclatunji:

I am sure the question is not meant for me because I don't recognise such divisions. We might want to ask OP to tell us about these 'divisions' because division seems to be his forte.

BetaThings:
And whether we like it or not, we are by virtue of some people calling themselves names
Are you an Ahmadi? Boko Haramite? Shia?

Some sects encourage us to pray to the dead for assistance. The Shias typically call on their Imams for help
This is shirk

The Shias forbid fasting on the day of Ashoora
This is a day on which we are encouraged to fast

The Shias consider it a religious duty to curse Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman (RA)
The Prophet (PBUH) cautioned us not to slander his companions

The Shias love Ali (RA), but into excess and they ascribe divine powers to him
This is shirk

The Nasibiis hate Ali (RA)
Again, this amounts to disobeying the Prophet (PBUH)

So if we are not educated about these tendencies, we run the risk of blindly following the teachings of these groups and committing grievous sins in the process
May Allah save us from misguidance and His punishment

maclatunji:

I am sure the question is not meant for me because I don't recognise such divisions. We might want to ask OP to tell us about these 'divisions' because division seems to be his forte.

bashy_demy: Not at all, The question was for the OP and his Shia member

olawalebabs: Enough of this thrash. Thread should be lock

Carmall: I dont even know if anything like shia, sunni or wahabi exists, all i know is that i'm a muslim, i believe in Allah, His prophet, quran and the hadiths...chickena!

maclatunji:

I see that you are irritated by the monotonous ramblings of OP who is like a programmed automaton who has been placed on autorun. LOL, just see it as your daily dose of entertainment.

Zhul-fiqar:

sunnite? wahhabi? hanbali? shafi'e? maliki? hanafi?


you have being told we do not pray to the dead but to Allah (jj).and you're still lying.do we worship the big cubic structure (Ka'ba) when we face it to pray?or may be you worship the black stone in the Ka'ba as the christians too accuse Muslims of doing because we face the direction of the Ka'ba when praying?or may be it is the dead people buried in and around the Ka'ba that you worship?

if that is not shirk,then why is tawassul or visiting the grave of holy Imams shirk? oh,the wahhabi accuses anyone of shirk as it pleases him.

visiting the grave and building a mosque over them is not shirk as it is allowed in the Quran:

"And similarly, We caused them to be found that they [who found them] would know that the promise of Allah is truth and that of the Hour there is no doubt. [That was] when they disputed among themselves about their affair and [then] said, "Construct over them a structure. Their Lord is most knowing about them." Said those who prevailed in the matter, "We will surely take [for ourselves] over them a masjid."(18:21)

Tawassul or using the purified servants of Allah (jj) as intercessors is encouraged in the Quran:

"None will have [power of] intercession except he who had taken from the Most Merciful a covenant".(Holy Quran 19:87)

"That Day, no intercession will benefit except [that of] one to whom the Most Merciful has given permission and has accepted his word".(Holy Quran 20:109)

"He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they cannot intercede except on behalf of one whom He approves. And they, from fear of Him, are apprehensive".(Holy Quran 21:28 )

"Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by his permission" (2:255)

"Say, "To Allah belongs [the right to allow] intercession entirely. To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. Then to Him you will be returned."(Holy Quran 39:44)

"And how many angels there are in the heavens whose intercession will not avail at all except [only] after Allah has permitted [it] to whom He wills and approves".(Holy Quran 53:26)

you are encouraged to fast by whom? by the banu umayya,the killers of Imam Hussain (a),Prophet Muhammmad's (s) grandson.Banu Umayya gave other meanings to the day of Ashura to conceal the martyrdom beheading of Imam Hussain (a).

the sunni hadith you rely on to justify fasting is fabricated upon examining it.the hadith holds that when the Prophet (s) entered Medina after the hijra from Mekkah he found the jews fasting.upon enquiring why they were fasting,he was told that Musa (a) commanded them to fast.thereupon he ordered Muslims to fast because Muslims have "greater right upon Musa than the Jews".ridiculous hadith of how Prophet Muhammad (s) alledgedly is copying the actions of the jews.this is how sunni hadith books are full of insulting fabrications to the Prophet (s) and then we wonder why the christian missionaries are always insulting the Prophet (s).they read sunni hadiths!!!

that hadith is false for the following reasons:

1.) the Prophet (s) is said to be copying the jews and no mention of Allah (jj) commanding the fast
2.) there is another sunni hadith which says we must not copy or act like the jews and christians.thereupon,Muslims are even encouraged to shorten their moustache and grow their beards to look different from jews.
3.) upon reaching Medinah using mathematical calculation,the Prophet's (s) arrival did not coincide with the jewish fast (yom kippur).so then how can this hadith say the Prophet (s) met them fasting?


we do not slander or even send la'nat on the righteous companions like Salman al-Farisi,Miqdad al-Aswad,Ammar Ibn Yassir,Bilal al-Habshi,Abu Dhar al-Ghifari,Hujr Ibn Adi,Zuhayr Ibn al-Qayn e.t.c.

Sunnis on the other hand slander Mukhtar al-Thaqafi,a righteous companion.Muawiya,the person who gave sunnis their sectarian name killed Hujr Ibn Adi.a righteous companion, for refusing to slander Imam Ali (a).

also,even abu bakr,umar and usthman,we Shia do not insult or slander them.that is not part of the akhlaq (morals) that a follower of the Prophet (s) and the Ahlul-Bayt (a) displays.we only send la'nat on them.sending la'nat is not slander because even Allah (jj) sends la'nat upon the disbelievers and the misguided oppressors and tyrants as we read in the Quran.those three oppressed the Ahlul-Bayt (a)-Family members-of Prophet Muhammad (s) including his daughter Fatima (a) whose land of Fadak was confiscated by abu bakr and also the assault on her house by the laeen,Umar,that led to her early death.


can you show us how that is? i am Shia and to me Imam Ali (a) is a servant and creature of Allah (jj),the one true Creator.whatever Imam Ali (a) does is by the permission of Allah (jj).Jesus (a) raised the dead to life by the permission of Allah (jj) as we are told in the Quran.does that too make Jesus (a) divine?to the christians that makes him divine.but to Muslims Jesus (a) is not divine because what he did was by Allah's (jj) permission and authority.now the wahhabi is believing the same thing as the christian that when a servant of Allah (jj) is said to have performed wonderful acts,that makes him divine and whoever believe that servant peformed such an act is doing shirk.he forgets that he is the only one seeing that as divine and shirk.



anyone who hates Imam Ali (a) disobeys Allah (jj) Himself.in the Quran in the "verse of mawaddah" we are commanded to show affection to the family members of Prophet Muhammad (s).so if any nasibi hates Imam Ali (a) starting from those you Sunnis hold in high esteem like abu bakr,muawiya and co.,then you are disobeying not only the Prophet (s) but Allah (jj) Himself.

Zhul-fiqar:

.and you're still lying.

BetaThings:
Now I would be glad to be suspended for 1 week if you, Zhul-Fiqar, can produce evidence that I have committed the offences succinctly summarised by Bro Mac
I hope you too can offer to be put to pasture for 1 week if we can produce evidence to show that you have not conducted yourself in a manner befitting of this section
Meanwhile, you are reporting that I have called some people names. I want you to produce the evidence for all you accuse me of because this matter is very important
If matters that are clear, recent and verifiable can be so easily misrepresented and falsified, I wonder how I am expected to be believe your stories of distant-past events that underly the Shia aqeeda

Zhul-fiqar:


ignorance is bliss,right? LOL

it is enough to be Muslim,true!

but sad enough are those who do not know that what they consider enough to be Muslim was not all that Allah (jj) wanted you to follow and includes what Allah (jj) did not reveal.

by not paying attention and wanting to acquire knowledge is doing the enemies of Islam a big favor.Islam does encourage us to learn and seek knowledge.there is no harm at all in knowledge.

BetaThings:

BTW, you never answered my challenge

BetaThings:

The major problem I have with your posts is that you claim that the sunni ahadeeth are fabricated. SO you will never convince me and I will not be able to convince you
You contest the ahadeeth in Bukhari when they don't accord with your position
But you refer to it when it supports your position

Let me just summarise
Nobody who is dead can intercede with Allah; the person can intercede while alive (like the Prophet making dua for rain) or after all of us are restored to life on the day of Qiyama. Your posts say on that day
I have asked you this simple question: if it was permissible to ask the dead for intercession, why would anyone ask another person beside the Prophet (PBUH) to intercede on his behalf. Just answer that question

that is not taking it to another level.calling Ya Muhammad is to gain the attention and mercy of Allah (jj).Muhammad (s) is a mercy to humanity as the Quran says.even if he is dead and does not hear us,then Allah (jj) does hear us.

now,i have not really touched on the subject whether or do according to the Quran and Islam,the dead can hear.that is another topic entire we can touch on or you can research.using the Quran would be enough to see that the pious servants of Allah (jj) even after physical death,they live on by the permission of Allah (jj).Allah (jj) says:"do not consider those slain in the path of Allah as dead.nay! they are alive and sustenance is given to them by their Lord".i am sure you will see that a prophet of Allah (jj) is far greater than a martyr.let me just stop there.

let us see from sunni hadiths if the Prophet (s) can hear us or not:

Hafiz ibn al-Qayyim writes that the Prophet of Allah (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) said:

"Send salutations on me, but send more salutations on Friday. When you recite the salutation, your voice will reach me wherever you are. Some Companions asked, "Even after your death?"The Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) replied, "Allah has made it unlawful for the earth to decompose my body"

[Ibn-al-Qayyim, Jala-ul-Afhaan, page 145]

Imam Nasa'i narrates that there are specific angels who visit the earth and whose sole duties are to go to the people who send salutations upon the Prophet Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) and then to take those salutations to the Prophet Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace).

[Mishkat, chapter on 'salat al Nabi']

The above mentioned Ahadith indicate that if anyone were to send salutations to the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) he himself would either hear the salutations, or an angel will convey them to him. In both cases salutations will reach the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace).

Hafiz Ibn Kathir, Imam at-Tabari and Imam Ibn al-Athir all wrote:

" During the Khilafa of Abu Bakr as-Siddique (may Allah be pleased with him) there was a battle against the false prophet, Musaylima of Najd. When the battle commenced, the Muslims lost their footing at which point Khalid ibn Walid (may Allah be pleased with him) and the rest of the Companions called out 'Ya Muhammad!' (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) and proceeded to win the battle"

[Tabari, Ta'rikh at-Tabari; Ibn Kathir, Ta'rikh Ibn Kathir; and Ibn al-Athir and Ibn Jarir, Ta'rikh Qamil, chapter on 'Musaylima Kazzab']

From Abu Hurayra: I heard the Prophet (s) say: "By the one in Whose hand is Abu al-Qasim's soul, `Isa ibn Maryam shall descend as a just and wise ruler. He shall destroy the cross, slay the swine, eradicate discord and grudges, and money shall be offered to him but he will not accept it. Then he shall stand at my graveside and say: Ya Muhammad! and I will answer him."

Abu Ya`la relates it with a sound chain in his Musnad (Dar al-Ma'mun ed. 1407/1987) 11:462; Ibn Hajar cites it in al-matalib al-`aliya (Kuwait, 1393/1973) 4:23, chapter entitled: "The Prophet's life in his grave" and #4574; Haythami says in Majma` al-zawa'id (8:5), chapter entitled: "`Isa ibn Maryam's Descent": "Its sub-narrators are the men of sound (sahih) hadith."
https://www.nairaland.com/954767/honour-muslims-lost-lives-dana/4#11125656

So what is the purpose of your asking them for intercession.

He (Allah) is close to us and we undoubtedly can pray directly to Him.there is no doubt about that if you choose to do so.but it is wrong for you to call Muslims who perform tawassul "idolaters".

tawassul could be perform not because Allah (jj) is far off from us.rather because we are far off from him due to our actions and we intend to get closer to Him.also the feeling of guilt from sinful acts or feeling bad in not doing enough to please Allah (jj) could lead one to plead with Allah (jj) to favor him for the sake of those faithful and exemplary servants of Allah (jj).
https://www.nairaland.com/954767/honour-muslims-lost-lives-dana/4#11125656

BTW when a Shia wants to ask another Shia for a favour, he prefers to ask in the name of Ali (RA), rather than ask in the name of Allah and/or His messenger? Why?

The most authetic ahadeeth book used by Shias is Usool Al Khafi by Kailani
According to him, "Islam is based on 5 pillars: prayer, fasting, pilgrimage, poor-due and Imamate. Out of these, the most important and the most preferred one is the imamate" Sunnis do not believe this imamate concept.
Sunnis insist that you have to be present yourself to Allah and recognise Him as your Creator and the only One worthy of worship and also accept His messenger (PBUH) before you can become a muslim. That is the reason why we say shadattain is the most important

According to your ahadeeth book (usool al Kafi),
'I heard Ali(R) saying "We are Allah's eyes, His hand, His sides and His gateway""

'It is narrated by Abu Abdullah (R) (Imam Jafar) said, "I do whatever was brouht by Ali (R) and refrain from whatever was forbidden by him. He has the same superiority of rank as the Prophet (S) himself"'
"After the Holy Prophet (S) Ali (R) has the same rights of obedience and respect as the Prophet (S). This is also true of all the successive imams."

On the imams,
'Imam Raza said, "Allah created us with the best of stature and gave us the best of faces. He made us the trustees of the earth and the heavens. We thus talk (even) to the trees. Allah is worshipped because of our prayers. If we were not present, Allah will not be worshipped."

Khomeini, in The Islamic Government, said
"One of the basic and essential beliefs of our religion is that the imams occupy such (distinguished) position that the most honoured angels and (even) the Prophets cannot reach it"

Actually Shias insult the Prophet (PBUH), the most. They place other people on the same rank with him and, they claim (may Allah forgive me for repeating it) that virtually all his companions apostatised. Is that not saying he was a failure?

I don't want to spend time quoting sinful words. Just to highlight our areas of departure which if you don't refrain from, we would never come to agreement.

bashy_demy: This thread as begin to irritate me i swear. What really is the problem or i would say what seperate the Sunnis, Shias, Wahabis, etc believe? I think its the Hadith right? the OP should answer this Question.. Are they using the same Quran? if yes then the main problem here is the Hadith narrated by diffrent people, And each group believe there own people Hadith as long as the Narrator of the Hadithe belong to the section...

Zhul-fiqar:


please stop being childish.

you have severally called other Muslims "mushrikeen".

11june: I have only opened 2 threads here which i never used any insulting langauge. They were both deleted. Muslims what are you fearing? You cant defend your faith hence resort to deleting threads? Yesterday I asked the moderator whether its their own family who will slaughter them or other muslims if they apostate. The thread was deleted. Dont even you moderators realise that there is something amiss with your faith? And if so why bother to defend your faith when you know it does not pass scrutiny? I guess you are afraid of being murdered by other zealots. Then you will claim victimhood by saying sufi or salafis misunderstood the glorious teachings of the prophet.

BetaThings:
[b]BTW when a Shia wants to ask another Shia for a favour, he prefers to ask in the name of Ali (RA), rather than ask in the name of Allah and/or His messenger? Why?

Zhul-fiqar:

i have never experienced that.

LagosShia:
Dear brother Zhul-Fiqar,
please i want to beg you for the sake of the Imam Ali (as) to stop posting any further on these fatwas and hadiths in sunni books.

seguun:
@LagosShia, why do you have to beg by the name of Ali(ra) before you later beged by God.

LagosShia:
before? i never made any such comparison as you are implying.
begging in anyone's name or for anyone's sake is not a bad thing.it is just a matter of preference and how dear the person is.i can beg someone for the sake of his father or mother,if i know them.
as for me using the name of Imam Ali (as) to beg,it is because the love of Ali (as) and loyalty to his imamate that sets me and brother Zhul-Fiqar apart from others here.so i expected him to receive my plea and accept it by showing my similarity to him.

BetaThings:

Really?
Why don’t you learn to tell the truth. It is good for you
This is where YOU (Zhul Fiqar) and Lagos Shia engaged in it
But I expect you to try and wriggle out of this, rather than admit the truth

LagosShia:
before? i never made any such comparison as you are implying.
begging in anyone's name or for anyone's sake is not a bad thing.it is just a matter of preference and how dear the person is.i can beg someone for the sake of his father or mother,if i know them.
as for me using the name of Imam Ali (as) to beg,it is because the love of Ali (as) and loyalty to his imamate that sets me and brother Zhul-Fiqar apart from others here.so i expected him to receive my plea and accept it by showing my similarity to him.

BetaThings:
BTW when a Shia wants to ask another Shia for a favour, he prefers to ask in the name of Ali (RA), rather than ask in the name of Allah and/or His messenger?

BetaThings:
Please allow me to continue to be childish
Zhul-Fiqar, please bring the evidence for what you say I have severally done
Or are we just to accept because the great Zhul Fiqar asserts it?