If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? - Religion (10) - Nairaland
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If God Knew Satan, Adam And Eve Would Sin, Why Did He Create Them? / If God Knew That Adam And Eve Would Sin, Why Did He Create Them? / The Catholic Pope Francis- There Is No Heaven Or Hell And Adam And Eve Not Real (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by truthislight: 10:05am On Jun 22, 2012 |
@cyrexx Men, the bible at Romans1:20 has this to say, Depending on the translation u use " THE INVISIBLE QUALITY OF GOD IS CLEARLY SEEN FROM THE CREATION ONWARD BECAUSE THEY ARE PERCEIVED BY THE THINGS MADE THAT THEY ARE IN EXCUSABLE EVEN GOD ETERNAL POWER AND GODSHIP. This is what the bible say on the prove of God. U should really take note of this, 2corinth11:14. The use of Ur brain so far so good has kept u in good footing, so keep using it and dont look for supernatural sign. search of the bible is the key since Jesus said keep on seeking, keep on asking. For what? Food? NO. Since on matt6:33 he said the first thing we should seek for (priority 1) should be God's kingdom. So, keep seeking the truth (John 17:17) from The bible being the word of God. The following of men as spiritual leader leeds to exploitation and lot more. Though u can shear bible knowledge with persons. Peace. |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Kay17: 10:58am On Jun 22, 2012 |
And what authority approves the bible as the word of God?? Is it your own selfish need? Or desires?? |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by truthislight: 12:50pm On Jun 22, 2012 |
@key17 Should i really answer this? Well the bible says so, 2timothy 3:16, 17. So, where does my selfish desire comes in? Or is it the anger in u hearing me express my views? I thought there was what is call freedom of speech? Have i not read severally where U freely aired ur views? Ur freedom starts and stops where mine begins. Why is my own view then a function of my own selfish interest? I thought it was only religiouse bigot that insist all to be like them and get pis off when it does not suit them. Anyway, what has been said has been said, if u dont like it complain to Jesoul. It is call religiouse forum. Peace. |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by cyrexx: 2:37pm On Jun 22, 2012 |
@ truthislight do you know about God of the Gaps theory There will always be unknowns in our natural world. Many religion followers see these unknowns as reasons for believing in their various God. The argument usually goes something like this: "We don't understand how the universe got here, therefore God must have created it." (This is today's version of the argument, years ago it was "We don't understand thunder, therefore the thunder god like Shango, Amadioha or Thor must have done it." ) But is saying "God did it" really an explanation or a proof of God's existence? No, it isn't. An explanation is a description of something we don't currently understand in terms that we do understand. religion followers will usually admit that they don't understand their god, saying things like "God works in mysterious ways". Well if we don't understand how God does something, then "God did it" is just about meaningless. It is like trying to solve a mystery with a bigger mystery. We will never have all the answers, but postulating an infinite god and pretending that this provides the answers is just irrational, at least to me as an atheist, though I respect your point as a christian. It is much better to have the intellectual integrity to simply admit that we don't yet know. therefore, what you have shown in the bible is not a proof of god's existence if god truly exist, it should not cost him anything to manifest himself as i have prayed to him earlier. god of the gaps theory also can be used to validate any other god apart from christian's god. thanx a lot, bro |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Kay17: 3:12pm On Jun 22, 2012 |
truthislight: @key17 No!! Bro!! I'm not insulting you o! I was merely looking at some of the motives. The Bible can't be an authority for itself. Also the Bible as it is, did not exist at the time timothy was written. Still no authority. |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Image123(m): 9:23pm On Jun 22, 2012 |
cyrexx: John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice, that's the Word and promise of God. If you are true, God will reveal Himself to you, location is not a problem. If you are not true, you can't deceive God. |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by cyrexx: 10:03pm On Jun 22, 2012 |
Image123: i hope you are not setting yourself to accuse me that i am not true in case your God refuse to manifest himself. you will rather believe i am not true than find out that he had not manifested himself to prove his existence so convenient. |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by HeKnows: 12:29am On Jun 23, 2012 |
cyrexx: [b]Cyrexx...Simply said ? If you failed with your relationship with God(For any specific reason), this doesn't mean you can come to a conclusion that he doesn't exists... Others(saints, prophets, servants of god, call them whatever you like) didn't fail. & came to a conclusion that he exists...So please, we appreciate the experience your claiming you had with God, and the so BORN AGAIN one too... and if in any way or another it did not work out for you, this doesn't mean that he doesn't exists...Actually, it's more about the individual than about God. This only means that you were not worthy of him(maybe you were living a double life), or you were expecting something from him and you waited so long with no answer, or you name it...Go ahead...But am sure it was something out of your part that did not work this relation out...So think again my friend, & just reading what you said right now and thinking that all you care for is for him to manifest himself for you in order for you to believe in him is really disgusting...No wonder why he never showed himself to you, you surely were taking him for granted in everything. And everything you said till now shows that you feel disappointed by him, which means you were expecting something from him(again taking him for granted). So before you start blaming God for everything, make sure the problem was not found in you from the beginning & through all the journey you claim you had with him (I) & I know I might sound a little bit rough, but I am being rough on you for one reason and you surely know why ! Peace bro [/b] |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by truthislight: 1:07am On Jun 23, 2012 |
Key17 the bible is not an authority  Kay17 is. Ok, we will see how long this ur authority last. max 80, minus ur current age, far less than 80. Why then should i take ur statment to the bank? Mortal that cant even add 1 cubic to his live span, or can u? I did say one should not follow man, but u looked for my selfishness, how? I had none (i need no follower, never) the bible is over 3500yr old and still the best seller. Though the best seller of all tym. The bible is an old modern book. The bible is far ahead of its tym. Will the Gods bend to suite human? Or mortals should bend? For a book that is not a scince text book, that was writted when there was no kwoledge of modern science to strike perfect note on science though focussing on God, perfectly describe natural laws, shape of earth, suspension of earth, descriptions of other galaxies, describe human nature perfectly, an uncanny prophetic details and fulfilment. But people just cant get it makes me wander. Maybe they just want to denied the facts. It seems more convenient, there are sure misuderstind on d scriptures that most people have against God of which they need back ground information as to what really happen, |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by mkmyers45(m): 4:13am On Jun 23, 2012 |
alexleo:Hahaha..I no fit shout  |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by mkmyers45(m): 4:20am On Jun 23, 2012 |
Demain_man:Help me ask o  |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by mkmyers45(m): 4:21am On Jun 23, 2012 |
haibe:Guy did you do elementary biology? |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Kay17: 6:49am On Jun 23, 2012 |
truthislight: Key17I didn't say the Bible not an authority, but not an authority for itself as the Word of God. The validating authority has to be external. For example, I write a love poem and within it, I write that the love poem is the greatest ever. Does that make it so?? 2 Likes |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by cyrexx: 7:51am On Jun 23, 2012 |
Kay 17: I didn't say the Bible not an authority, but not an authority for itself as the Word of God. The validating authority has to be external. beautifully worded. plus the bible has so many emotionally appealing elements like promise of a blissful second life, the assurance that you have a sky daddy who watches over you, and the greatest appeal of a loving heroic godman savoiur who sacrificed himself for you. if you were to be convinced of these statements, you cannot but fall for the "hero" who saved you. ladies especially like heroes. those and several reasons i cannot list here for lack of space are the reason that the bible has survived for so long. but like Kay 17 said, does that make it valid? the stories might have been beautifully crafted to capture human emotion. if one cannot prove its valididty here in this modern age, then it may not be a reliable book. i believe a book wriiten by an omniscient author should do more than what the bible has done e.g. it should specifically address issues of modern age by the way, do you know that the bible contains so many internal contradictions? |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by cyrexx: 8:12am On Jun 23, 2012 |
HeKnows: i am happy that you are willing to engage in conversation instead of insulting me. i must admit that you got right that I am sorely dissapointed with christianity who portrayed god as a prayer answering god. i will explain this fallacy shortly but i need your full honesty here, pls how much of your prayers have you received answers to.? Unanswered prayer is the valid proof that god is imaginary. This is a glaring contradiction between the definition of God and the God we experience in the real world. What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way: Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to remove poverty in Nigeria and stop the suffering of innocent women and children. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen. We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways. Will anything happen? No. Of course not. This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers. And Christians believe Jesus -- especially Nigeria If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says: Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him! If "every one who asks receives", then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If "our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him", then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens. In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says: For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. If "nothing will be impossible to you", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying. In Matthew 21:21: I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. If "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should dissappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little." The message is reiterated Mark 11:24: Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. If God says, "believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," and if we believe in God and his power, then what should happen if we pray to cure cancer tonight? It should be cured. Either that, or God is lying. In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be: "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." [ref] Look at how direct this statement is: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." This is the "Son of God" speaking. Have we taken him "too literally?" No. This is a simple, unambiguous statement. Have we taken his statement "out of context?" No - Jesus uses the word anyone. Yet Jesus' statement is obviously false. Because when we ask God to cure cancer tonight, nothing happens. We see the same thing over and over again... In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says: Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them. In James 5:15-16 the Bible says: And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. In Mark 9:23: All things are possible to him who believes. In Luke 1:37: For with God nothing will be impossible. Nothing could be simpler or clearer than Jesus' promises about prayer in the Bible. Yet, when we pray to eliminate poverty and suffering of the innocent women and childern, nothing happens. And keep in mind that this is Jesus talking here. These are not the words of human beings. These are not the words of "inspired" human beings. These are supposedly the words of God himself, incarnated in a human body. Jesus is supposed to be a perfect, sinless being. And yet, it is obvious that Jesus is lying. What Jesus says is clearly incorrect. Jesus is supposed to be God. God is supposed to be perfect. When Jesus speaks, he should speak the truth. Yet when we look at what Jesus says about prayer, he is clearly lying. If you would like additional proof, gather a million faithful believers together into a giant prayer circle. Have them all pray together in Jesus' name that God ends poverty in Nigeria and stop the pain and suffering of the innocents . Pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways. Now, we certainly have two or more people gathered together, and they have asked in Jesus' name, and we have not one but a million faithful believers who, by definition, have faith and believe. We have fulfilled every one of Jesus' requirements. Will Jesus answer the prayer now? Of course not. Your prayer will go unanswered, in direct defiance to Jesus' promises in the Bible. In fact, if you pray for anything that is impossible, your prayer will always go unanswered. If you are an intelligent, rational human being, all of the examples mentioned above show you that the God of the Bible is imaginary. The Bible clearly promises that God answers prayers. Yet when we pray, nothing happens What Jesus says about prayer in the Bible clearly is not true. Therefore, one of two things must be happening: 1. God is imaginary. 2. God does exist, but he never answers prayers. Unfortunately, God is defined by the Bible to be a prayer-answering being. The contradiction between the reality of God and the definition of God proves that God is imaginary. In fact, we have ample scientific evidence to demonstrate that the belief in prayer is nothing but pure superstition, The reason why God does not answer prayers is simple: God is imaginary. |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by cyrexx: 8:25am On Jun 23, 2012 |
A favorite Christian rationalization for why God does not answer our prayer to eliminate poverty and suffering of the innocents is because "it would take away free will." The logic: If you pray and God answers your prayer, then God would have revealed himself to you, and you would know that God exists. That would take away your free will to believe in him. Of course, if this is true, then by default all of Jesus' statements about prayer in the Bible are false. It means that God cannot answer any prayer. Also, why is a God who must remain hidden like this incarnating himself and writing the Bible? If Jesus is God, and if God is perfect, why aren't all of Jesus's verses about prayer true? Was Jesus exagerating? Was he fibbing? If Jesus is perfect, why wouldn't he speak the truth? Why doesn't a prayer to eliminate poverty and sorrow nationwide tomorrow work? Believers have many different ways to explain why all these verses in the Bible do not work, even if you are praying sincerely, unselfishly and non-materialistically, and even if the answer to your prayer would help millions of people and glorify God in the process. They will say things like this: "You need to understand what Jesus was saying in the context the first century civilization in which he was speaking..." or: "When Jesus talked about 'moving a mountain', he was speaking metaphorically. When someone says, 'it is raining cats and dogs,' no one takes him literally. Jesus was using a figure of speech rather than speaking literally..." or: God is not a thing. He is a being. He has a will. He has desires. He relates to people. He has personality traits. Prayer is a fancy word for talking to God. God, who knows everything, even before we say it, knows the difference between our thoughts and wishes, and when we are actually addressing him. He hears our prayers and responds. His responses are based on his personal decisions. We cannot predict how he will respond to our prayers... The primary problem with these rationalizations is that they miss the point. The fact is that God never answers any prayers, as discussed here. Going one step further, the problem is that all of these rationalizations miss two other important points: God is supposed to be an all-powerful, all-knowing, perfect being. The statement, "Nothing will be impossible for you", along with the other Bible verses quoted above, are false. The fact is, lots of things are impossible for you. If a perfect being is going to make statements about how prayer works in the Bible, then three things are certain: 1) He would speak clearly, 2) he would say what he means, and 3) he would speak the truth. That is what "being perfect" is all about. A perfect, all-knowing God would know that people would be reading the Bible 2,000 years later, and therefore he would not use first-century idioms (he would say what he means). He would know that normal people will be reading the Bible and interpreting it in normal ways, so he would speak in such a way as to avoid mis-interpretation (he would speak clearly). He would know that when you say, "Nothing will be impossible for you", that what it means is, "Nothing will be impossible for you" and he would make sure that the statement "Nothing will be impossible for you" is accurate (he would speak the truth). If God says it, it should be true -- otherwise he is not perfect. Unfortunately, the fact is that thousands of things are impossible for you no matter how much you pray, and no one (including Jesus) has ever moved a mountain. In order to see the truth, you need to accept the fact that all of the above verses are wrong. The fact is, God does not answer prayers. The reason why God does not answer your prayers is simple: God is imaginary. prayer is like throwing a dice praying to get six. one out six tiimes, your prayer is "answered" but 5 out of six, "god works in mysterious ways". all the testimonies you ever hear about are the 1/6 probabilities while they hide the rest 5/6.
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| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by HeKnows: 1:13pm On Jun 23, 2012 |
@ Cyrexx Does God answer prayer? Every changed life of every believer is proof positive that God answers prayer. Anyways, your example that you took was a really bad example actually...Not to mention if just 10 billionaires gave 1% of their money possessions to feed these innocent people their..it would be more than enough to do so(500+ years surplus for food !) But that, you see, is how arrogant and self-centered these billionaires are...Any who, let's get back to the prayer and take your example seriously... Tell me something, if you prayed for something, and that something came into existence not directly, but let's say it took about 2-3 months+... would you then believe that God answered your prayer yes or no ? [b]If yes, then I can kindly assure you that these people in Nigeria are getting help each and every month as much as possible from other people's prayer(even though you wanted for all of them to get help instantly, since saying that whatever you ask you shall receive..but no where in the bible it says that the moment you ask you shall directly receive(unless your faith is so powerful, such as to some prophets and saint..) Anyways, some receive directly, others it takes them weeks, months or even years!...Actually it's not about whether or not you receive directly or not...it depends on the faith that these individuals have) "If I regard wickedness in my heart, the Lord will not hear" "When you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord" "If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you" So to answer your question, not everyone who prays means his/her prayers will be answered...You can check all the prophets, whenever they asked for something, 5/6 they get it  ...why ? Because their lives was made to praise and worship Jesus. From morning till noon ! Each and everyday ! A total life dedicated to Christ(followed with fasting and prayers and praise and worship). Now how many true disciples of Jesus do you see nowadays ? Ill answer that, they can be counted !  If a person truly devotes his life for God/Jesus then in no means, he/she will be granted many things that he asks for(maybe directly or not directly depends, but sooner or later they will) The problem with you is that you are taking average so called "Christians" and putting them to test...& you know no average being is worthy of his prayers to be answered(only when repenting), but once your asking a favor from God it's totally different then asking for him to forgive you, both are 2 means in contributing with God, one is asking for forgiveness(being humbled & approving that you are a sinner) & another one is getting even with God and asking for whatever you want (I)... So seeing some people going to church and bluntly claiming that they have devoted their lives totally for Jesus, can be not taken into heart so seriously...Some might be true about it, but as am seeing nowadays, I can assure you that many of them are maybe just living a hype ! But little/few have really devoted their lives to him and everything is working just fine... So, if you gathered 1 million Christians, and set them to pray, or brought 10 truly devoted disciples of Christ and set them to pray...I can assure you that the 1 million will not be heard, not even 1 of them maybe And as for the other 10 ?...you can see where am going...A lot of Christians nowadays call themselves Christians, and a lot of ones who are TRYING to live with Christ accepted him already, thinks that if they will pray now for anything, they will be granted..But we both know that's not true....The multitude in whom Jesus addressed, were the ones that are worthy of being called "Disciples"...Not everyone who reads the bible and pray from now and then, is called a disciple of Christ...If you are not taking Jesus seriously in Spirit, then why should he take your prayers seriously and manifest them to you ?....[/b]Anyways, let's say, that the multitude you talked about(in which they gathered to pray for Nigerian children) were all devoted 100%, & in no means they were filled with any doubts...And they all prayed but nothing happened....Now, if they were truly as they claim to be, then in no means nothing will happen...But if they were not as they claimed and only some were worthy, then you got your answer for that...Once again, Nigerian children gets help each and every month as much as possible from health/food/medical institutions as mush as they can...Who told you that these helps were in no means some of the prayers that were answered ? Okay I've been talking too much...But i think you got my point... So to be bold and honest with you, I don't care about the things that Jesus said about prayer(for average people)...why ? Because these things were meant for the truly(devoted in spirit people)...And for you to see how dead serious Jesus was about it... " Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it : and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Now how many devoted Christians you can point out and say, they truly denied themselves completely completely for Christ ? Once again, they are really really few(compared to the world population) maybe not even 0.9%...Anyways, anything more I add will be considered words full of void, for I have already mentioned basically everything.... [b] P.s : Even I when I pray for him, i know that he wont still answer my prayers directly...Cause am still not worthy of him in any way or another ! Am not even close ! But this doesn't mean that I deny his existence and say that God does not exist...Nah...You know what I say ? He does exist. We are just not worthy enough of his LOVE, we are all filthy if you really took a look at this world.. and the thing that we're missing the most which is LOVE, we are all denying it's existence, maybe that's why LOVE(God) is not prevailing so much in our lives anymore, cause we're busy trying to proof his existence rather then truly abide in him...And that's what made Love(God) not answering or not showing to some...They have denied, rebelled, mocked, cursed...call it whatever...Actually some people should be thankful that God is still tolerating them! If i were in his place, I would CRUSH! this whole earth and the hell with all that is within it! But i guess that would be a harsh act(even though they all deserve that). "Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. " But you always take the great majority into consideration(which we both know wont be saved due to their hearts and deeds), and you throw of the real devoted in Christ Christians and consider them mere chances...Is it a mere chance that 90% of the world is living in vain ? Nope it's not...Is it a mere chance that 10% are experiencing God ? Once again, Nope it's not. There exists no mere chance here on earth, and you know better. Anyways tc [/b] |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by cyrexx: 3:51pm On Jun 23, 2012 |
HeKnows: dont worry, you have said enough. thank you. no more need to be said |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by HeKnows: 4:02pm On Jun 23, 2012 |
@Cyrexx That's really a childish act...anyways...if you continued the rest of the sentence... Even I when I pray, i know that he wont still answer my prayers DIRECTLY [b] See? Your busy catching/creating everything NEGATIVE that you are missing the whole message...Never mind, I wont bother replying anymore, I've already said enough, & anyone who reads your response will approve on how "ignorant and childish" it was...never mind...take care fellow |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by cyrexx: 4:33pm On Jun 23, 2012 |
my bad, sorry. HeKnows: isnt that what you mean "mr ignorant and brainwashed mind" |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by HeKnows: 5:42pm On Jun 23, 2012 |
cyrexx: my bad, sorry. Yes, he might not answer my prayer directly cause am still unworthy of him, this doesn't mean it wont be answered later on...You totally know how to twist things up don't you ? & watch your filthy mouth will you (K) thanks |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Kay17: 10:10pm On Jun 23, 2012 |
^^^ Being the omniscient God, he already knows your wishes and he has a divine plan, so why bother praying?! |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by HeKnows: 11:08pm On Jun 23, 2012 |
Kay 17: ^^^ Being the omniscient God, he already knows your wishes and he has a divine plan, so why bother praying?! I LOVE praying for him. Does this offend you in any way ? |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Kay17: 11:49pm On Jun 23, 2012 |
No |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by truthislight: 6:40am On Jun 24, 2012 |
Cyrexx this was u at ur very best kay17 ur Q is very rational, if God knows what we need befor we even pray why then do we have to pray? Hmmmmm! I must confess that this Q got me rattled some times back. Let me start with kay17 Q since it will lead to cyrexx's the assumptions that is made about prayer is that it is only almighty God that human can pray to but that is not true, case = moses in egypt and the egyptian magician both prayed and both got answers with the snake. So, there are two masters, almight God and satan the devil, the both can be access by human in prayer and they are happy when human pray to either of them. The issue of freewill comes in since God will not force human to pray to him, but he is happy when u consider the options and choose him(trust him) instead of satan, when u pray to him u have taken a stand on Gods side. So, u have to take side, no neutral ground. Cyrexx, note what Jesus said as a conditin for God answering of prayer : "whatever u ask the father according to his will he will answer" the condition for answering of prayer is that it should be according to Gods will. What then is God's will? MTT6:9,10 shows that God's will is for Gods kingdom to come. The bilbe consistently says that satan is the one ruling over planet earth currently and the failures we see are his. The problem is that people are asking that those things that God promises to give as blessing or attraction for God's kingdom that is what people are asking for in this satan system, are they saying that God shoul fixe satan's government? No, for God says he will remove satan and his system Daniel 2:44 then In Gods kingdom the blessings are then made Rev 21:3,4. (Infact, the bible message is a paradise lost and how God went about restoring the paradise) Jesus himself recongnise this condition for prayer that is why on his last night befor his death in prayer he said " not my will but according to ur will" (note: Jesus is not almighty God) so, when prayers are made out of what Gods will or plans are it CANT BE ANSWERED by God. Human dont set the standered, they can either fit in or go astray. Cyrexx, there is no human that have or will ever perform miracle greater than what Jesus did, the greater thing he said that his followers will do greater than him is, as a preacher that preach in Judea and it environ he later sent his followers to preach to the most distant part of the earth MTT 24:14 and for good reason. So, the discilple's work will then be greater. What should they preach? "the kingdom of God is at hand" (which is according to God's will) and Jesus promise to be with them as they do this work, MTT 28:18to20. The instructions u were quoting in Mattews are giving to those adjusted to this will of God, that they should not be anxiouse about what to wear, eat, etc that there heavenly father knows they need this things, food, clothing, sheltar, though they are still in satans world, It is those that are adjusted according to Gods will that those words apply and there prayers will not go out of what has beel outline since they are seeking Gods kingdom first. Mtt6:33 all those saying that the greater things are miracle = error, 2thessalonian 2:9to12 kay17, on the bible's authority. When taking oath people swear to greater entities as a guaranty that they are saying the truth, in the case of God since he says he is almighty he can not swear to smaller entities that he has once taken a challange to and destroy to show that there is no other greater than he is, as such he usually swear by himself or to hlmself. since he said that the bible is his word who does he need to attest to lt to varify what he says? However, Jesus christ is called the faithfull witness. Do u want to stand on his way to default him on what he says in the bible? I dont wish u take such chances. Concerning ur poem can the same things be said about u and ur poem? Cyrexx/kay17 this particular apprroach is an example of how criticism shoul be made with qoute and quetions. The blame is for those carrying the bible for what it out not to be use for, that is what give rise for criticising it out of context. *If the cited scriptures are not red the sense will be lost. *I may not have address all issues, remind me were i did not. Peace |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by edicolove: 8:19am On Jun 24, 2012 |
Kay 17: And what authority approves the bible as the word of God?? The Word of God approves itself as the Word if God! It doesn't need any authority to approve it. When you believe it, it transforms you into a higher being. A being that can live above sickness or failure. A being that can walk and live in the supernatural. That is why miracle are very real. You may choose not to believe in it, but it doesn't chnage its existence and occurrence. Man's existence and life is totally based on faith. Even science is faith. You are told that a virus exist. How do you know it is true? Have you seen a virus before? How are you sure someone is not trying to deceive you? Well you simply believe because you are a faith being. You even allowed someone to inject you with a fluid with the claim that it will forever immunize you against the same virus you were told exist but have never seen. What a great faith! You are told the world is round and you believe, yet you have never seen the world by yourself. In fact your life is based on it. You were told pluto is a planet. You believed too and even based your life (horoscope) on it. Your daily decisions were based on it. Oops! Now you are told they were wrong. You still believe! Ironically, you say those who believe in God are fools and are being deceived. But those who told you pluto was a planet deceived you and you didn't mind. You see, its all a matter of choice. The problem with atheists is they are afraid of the unknown. They don't want to face it. Secondly, the thought of God makes them feel unrighteous and unworthy. But that is what religion made them to believe. That God is angry with them and wants to destroy them. Thirdly, they are also angry with God, maybe for pains they faced and couldn't explain or understand. But as the saying goes, "to know me is to love me". To know God is to love God! God is not the picture that Islam and "religious christianity" paints. God is love. God is grace. God is light. It is not in His character to kill or destroy. He is a life giver. When you understand that, then you will understand the whole life and sacrifice of Jesus. And then, you will understand the whole purpose of man. The earth is God's training ground to raise men who will rule and administer for him. He is training kings. But everything is based on choice. Choice is the key to life! |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Image123(m): 8:25pm On Jun 24, 2012 |
Just to comment on some wide and wild misconceptions on prayers and the promises of God, seeing the likes of cyrexx's post on prayers. What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way: Jesus is supposed to be God. God is supposed to be perfect.Please, get this into your brains, GOD IS NOT A MAGICIAN. God's acts are not acts of magic. In magic, you just play a particular tune or say the famous magic word, and magic happens, like a door opens or something appears/disappears, or some tricks. In magic anybody is entitled, all you need is to know the magic word or process. What to rub, where, when, how many times etc. Prayers is not just to say some set of words and bingo, there you have it. The promises of God are conditional and MUST be in line with God's Word(the Bible) and Will. If everybody will unconditional receive what he prays for, that would be utmost chaos. Then i would ask to be the president, and you would ask, and the other would ask, and God must grant all our requests. If i ask for your family to die, and you ask for me to die, and i ask that my house be moved to Canada, and you say God i don't want to see this third mainland bride again, this is chaos. The promises and the Word of God is CONDITIONAL. i can show a hundred instances. Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Job 22:23 If thou return to the Almighty, thou shalt be built up, thou shalt put away iniquity far from thy tabernacles. Job 22:24 Then shalt thou lay up gold as dust, and the gold of Ophir as the stones of the brooks. Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: Clearly the scriptures should not be cherry-picked for our convenience. There is responsibility. If someone comes or some people come and say we pray to you to remove poverty in Nigeria and stop the suffering of innocent women and children. We pray in faith. Such a person should realise that faith without works is a dead faith. Besides God has given us the resources that we need, the brain, the time, the intelligence, and all else to get solutions to most of our problems. It's almost like asking your dad to help you wash your clothes, or tie your shoe laces. We have reached an advanced stage where such request may not be granted. Requests are granted to those in true repentance and faith, a working faith, not a lazy faith. You cannot be asking God to take away all the poverty in your country while you fold your arms and don't obey the basic rules that God has laid down for prosperity. Those who obey God's rules for prosperity prosper, whether you are born again or born against, atheist, muslin, nigerian, arabian, american, swede, wherever and whatever. Wisdom and education is key and central to prosperity. If anyone neglects wisdom, he cannot prosper in the sense of removing poverty from nigeria. Those nations that value education, we can see what they are doing. Hear what God's word says on wisdom Proverbs 3:13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. Pro 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding. Pro 8:11 For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it. Pro 19:2 Also, that the soul be without knowledge, it is not good; and he that hasteth with his feet sinneth. You can't be asking God to remove poverty and you do not have regards for acquiring wisdom. No regards for the improvement of the educational sector, all the political leaders are praying and are chopping all the money that should be directed towards training, research, scholarship, building of good schools and excellent learning centers, higher institutions are dilapidated, we are busy chasing rubies and storing up forex in our bank accounts. We are praying God to take away poverty, stop the pain and suffering, but we ourselves have little or no regard for lives and property. We disdain hardwork and diligence and are more interested in the national cake share. It is diligence and hardwork that would fight your suffering and poverty. Look again at the Proverbs. Pro 6:4 Give not sleep to thine eyes, nor slumber to thine eyelids. Pro 6:6 Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: Pro 6:7 Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler, Pro 6:8 Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest. Pro 6:9 How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep? Pro 6:10 Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep: Pro 6:11 So shall thy poverty come as one that traveleth, and thy want as an armed man. We love sleep in this country no doubt. You would see people who are sleeping till 11am under whatever guise. How won't the nation be poor. The whole system is slow to do things, and in a slumber. Even the NASS are sleeping on duty, and full of procrastinations and allowances for every shifted meeting, and you want God to come and help you remove poverty? Pro 3:28 Say not unto thy neighbor, Go, and come again, and tomorrow I will give; when thou hast it by thee. There is unnecessary procrastination everywhere. Bills that ought to be passed, judgements that ought to be made, decisions that ought to be taken, iron that need to be formed while hot, papers that need to be signed. Look at thee way lecturers and NASU are messing with people's lives and results, and you expect God to magically roll away all the problems of your country. Time would fail me to speak at length on our corruption Pro 11:1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight. Everybody is corrupt, even to the kids. There is no repentance, but you want a gathering to pray together and if nothing happens, it shows that God exists or doesn't. There is dishonesty and sharp practices everywhere in business. Thieves are been celebrated nationally and on the dailies, crimanals are vying for prestigious position and are winning elections. The next man wants to play the fast one on the other man, everybody wants to be sharp guy, very smart. Is that how it is been done in countries that you call developed? You know, God is not a partial God, anyone who obeys His basic laws would get rewarded. You reap what you sow, you don't sow trouble and corruption and come to pray for blessing and abundance. You don't sow nothing, and be asking God according to His riches in glory by Jesus Christ. Check up any 'developed'/prospering nation, they have followed these basic laws. they have been diligent, they have sought after wisdom, they are not majorly fraudulent, dishonest, corrupt people. Pro 22:29 Seest thou a man diligent in his business? he shall stand before kings; he shall not stand before mean men. Pro 20:13 Love not sleep, lest thou come to poverty; open thine eyes, and thou shalt be satisfied with bread. Pro 21:20 There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up. Do you see our leaders spending as if there is no tomorrow? DO you see people behaving without regard for the future and the coming generation, and you think all that would solve it is to prove if God exist, let Him remove nigeria's poverty and suffering? Unbelievers are even more deluded than many deluded 'believers' Pro 22:28 Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set. Are we not a country that has lost all its virtues and values? Where is the honesty, hardwork, respect for authority, wisdom, and contentment that our fathers had? The ancient landmarks that even without the discovery of oil, without dollars, our progenitors were hardworking, honest and content. Were they into politics with do or die? Where are the words of wisdom, the parables, wise sayings and stories, where is the market where you could leave your wares and someone would still come to buy and you would meet your money. That generation is not far far far away, some of them are still alive. Just some years ago, if you had a post, you got it from the post office easily and intact. If you gained admission into school, they brought your admission letter before you even see it on some notice board. Today, we have to push for everything, you have to know somebody. Know somebody for your admission, know somebody to get letter of admission, know somebody for it to be sent, know somebody at the post office so that you will not get your letter after the second session/year of school, know somebody at common entrance board, nysc, know somebody to get anything. You have to push them to help you quickly in the bank, the hospital, governmant house, know your way(whatever that means) to pass your exams. All these is happening and you think God should remove poverty from nigeria at your request and agreement? ithink not. Please get your queries and perspective right, and read the Word of God in its full context, thanks. |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by cyrexx: 8:58pm On Jun 24, 2012 |
^^^^^ everything you have done is to rationalise a lying god who promises to answer prayers but didn't therefore he is imaginary. everything i posted earlier still stands. |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Avicenna: 12:03am On Jun 25, 2012 |
@cyrexx You are really a patient man. I would have lost it at 'you are not worthy of God's response' or something like that and the so many insults being thrown at you. |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Image123(m): 1:51am On Jun 25, 2012 |
cyrexx: ^^^^^i tell you what you've done, you've rejected the truth of the Word of God, and chosen to believe a lie. You have picked the words that you like to misrepresent God as a magician, and refused the verses that clearly state your responsibilities and necessary actions in the contract. Good luck to you in your quest for relevance/purpose. |
| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by cyrexx: 6:51am On Jun 25, 2012 |
Image123: listen well again. i didnt portray god as a magician or a prayer answering god. i didnt put those biblical promises in his mouth. go and read again those verses i listed earlier about his own promises from his very own mouth to answer prayers. and those extra responsibilities and "necessary actions in the contract" have been purely invented by you to justify why he does not answer prayers. god is imaginary and its believers will fight tooth and nail to justify him, because the idea of a big sky daddy is so comforting, like a santa claus to a child. i fully understand you @ avicenna, i understand their mentality, i used to be like them. i just feel i have a responsibility to tell the truth, even though it will be extremely difficult to make them objectively examine their childhood indoctrinated dogmas.
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| Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by truthislight: 8:14am On Jun 25, 2012 |
@cyrexx bro i wander if u saw my write up or even red it, u have been so busy with the born again. Kay17 i did ask u if ur poem and u does follow in like manner to what is describe about God. Waiting for ur feed back. Peace truthislight: Cyrexx@cyrexx bro i wander if u saw my write up or even red it, u have been so busy with the born again. Kay17 i did ask u if ur poem and u does follow in like manner to what is describe about God. Waiting for ur feed back. Peace |
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