₦airaland Forum

Nihilist:
Let's do a brief recap.

A40: if a set of players keep failing regularly on the international scene despite winning individual awards, then they are overrated

Nihilist: What of Aguero, Di Maria, Messi and co.

A40: Messi is not overrated because he reached the final.

Nihilist: But Messi failed 3 times in a row; using your definition Messi is overrated

A40: There are levels to overrated. Aguero is overrated. Di Maria is overrated. Messi is not.

Nihilisr: so why are Aguero and Di Maria overrated while Messi is not. Afterall they also reached the final.

A40: it's no longer about failing at tournaments. It's no longer even about reaching finals. It's about qualifiers. Aguero and Di Maria are overrated because they did not score against Paraguay

Nihilist:

You are chasing your own tail at this point.

You listed four tournaments where Argentina got to the Finals and lost two shootouts as an example of Argentina's failure. I showed you England not getting out of the group stage at a WC, Failing to qualify for the Euros in a group with Russia, Andorra, Israel and Croatia, losing to a country the population of Oke Odo market on a busy day. Equating Argentina's scenario with England just tells me you are trolling or genuinely confused. One national team has not played a final in 50 years, the other played in 4 in less than a decade.

In the Argentine side can Agüero's and ADM's contributions be compared to Messi's? Who is the irreplaceable component out of the 3?

Not outrightly winning a tournament does not equate to automatic failure I have never indicated that in any of my posts. If you don't or are unwilling to grasp that simple concept then abeg stop wasting my time

Nihilist:
That's a pretty silly question because have they played any tournament without Messi?

More pertinently has the presence of Messi at any tournament changed their fortunes anyway? Was he not missing PKs in thr final?

So why should they be required to do something without Messi when the same Messi has done nothing of note?

Can you see how you're twisting yourself into knots of poor logic?

All you have to do is recant your earlier statement..because it's pretty obvious that you can't defend it.

Chale you need visine because I included WCQ in that post. Blindness is not contagious last I checked

Since you are trying to be pedantic. Two can play that game. Messi missed a penalty kick not kicks like your statement is implying.

Maybe you need Adderall for your attention deficit. I have asked you to show me what they have done (Agüero/ADM) by themselves in Messi's presence or absence bar Agüero's Pk in the WC semis where Messi also scored and you have been drawing nothing but blanks

I'm not recanting zilch. And I have been defending my points with Steven Seagalesque ease

Nihilist:
I don't even understand where Serie B came into the discussion as it's pretty clear here what the main line of argument was

I put that myself for insurance. Else I wouldn't use almost 20 to begin with

airmark:
Keep lowering the numbers . For how many seasons did he score 20 penalties ?

Apoche cra cra you are a blind and dangerously daft mofo. What is the meaning of 'almost 20' you stewpid douchegoblin. You saw 'almost 20' and 'more than 15' and you are still asking me for how many seasons did he score 20 penalties. Your case na Labe Orun tins. Didn't they teach you how to count in that Ile keu ni?

Dosgbe. Why you dey run nau? Make I chop your money as e dey hot. Ewu Zambia

airmark:
If i ask you to back the highlighted lines with your 4 months salary now , your lips will start shaking.

Apoche cra cra I would gladly engage you on the Batistuta tip. He scored over 15 goals in League play (Serie A and Serie B) make I use your money collect room and carry kpekus go Renaissance. Game?

Nihilist:
I noticed that Dayo left him to stand alone on that one...

Aguero Overrated

When you lot start mentioning raumdeuter that is usually a surefire sign that confusion don set in.

Nihilist:
So there are different types of failure now?

See how your poor logic is making you engage in a dance macabre.

So if Argentina's failures are not that serious, then on what basis are the likes of Aguero and Di Maria overrated?

If Argentina serial finalists are failures what do we call England? You are simply trolling now

I gave you a clear instance that highlights Agüero and ADM being overrated. Show me any tournament/WCQ where these guys have come through for Argentina in the absence of Messi. I repeat if you choose to deliberately misunderstand me that's on you

airmark:
So you had to read several times before realising your line where you stated batigoal's penalties gave him an edge in goal stats was senseless, hence you deleted it. I will give you 24 hours for further editing. Buzz me when you are through with something reasonable. Always think deeply before you reply next time or ask dayo to vet for you, before clicking the submit button.

You are a ret@rded egret. Batistuta scored almost 20 penalties in league play. Elber was never Bayern's default P.k taker. When I tell you Batistuta's numerous penalties also helped him edge Elber on goals try to STFU and listen. You have never had the upper hand against me on any debate and that is not going to change anytime soon. When I speak your only response should be Church. Preach. Tabernacle

Phoolish apoche cra cra

Nihilist:
These are your words verbatim:

"this collective keep failing every two years like clockwork only a certified crazeman like you would not see that these players are overrated"

Messi 2007 Copa - Failure

Messi 2014 World Cup - Failure

Messi 2015 Copa - Failure

Messi 2016 Copa - Failure

Oya explain how based on your own logic in your own words, Messi is not overrated.

2002 Korea/Japan England - Quarter Final

2004 Portugal
England - Quarter Final

2006 Germany
England - Quarter Final

2008 Austria/Schweiz
England - DNQ

2010 South Africa
England - 2nd Round

2012 Poland/Ukraine
England - Quarter Final

2014 Brazil
England - Group Stage

2016 France
England - 2nd round (Lost to a country the population of Abule Egba)

If you cannot tell the difference between this kind of failure and the one you listed above of a team that got to the Finals of all 4 tournaments you listed then I'm afraid there's no point continuing this debate

Nihilist:
Aguero Higuain and ADM are overrated...

Are you listening to yourself at all?

BTW Messi is also on the list, and your Logic also applies to him. Afterall he has loads of individual awards but can't win anything internationally.

Are you asking me if Higuain, ADM and Agüero are overrated? Go and ask Messi, Barca fans and the average Argie on the street what they think of the players I listed above. My logic doesn't apply to Messi. You have taken it upon yourself to turn the argument on its head and O.Y.O is your case in this instance

We have seen Argentina that cannot beat ordinary Paraguay at home in Messi's absence. We have seen Argentina on the brink of WC disaster with ADM, Agüero, Higuain present and you are still asking me if they are overrated

Nihilist:
Before A40 was talking about why Beckham and co did not win anything.

The fact that it has now changed to 'make final' already shows how illogical such a stance is to begin with.

Now you guys are playing cut and paste.

Before the argument was

Now it has turned to...you can fail on the international stage but not be overrated...

My friend there is levels to overrated. I am inherently aware of the difficulty of winning these tournaments but you can't sit there and tell me a supposedly World class bunch of players from attack to defense are combined together and consistently fail to even get to the latter stage of comps never mind winning it

If you choose to deliberately misunderstand me then how is that my fault?

I keep looking at the Raptors and wonder if I am guilty of criminally underrating their players

lolawilliams:
He made Smith looked better, lets be honest..
The current Smith is diff from the Knicks Smith i used to know.

Smith is still rubbishly inconsistent, infact in the last finals it was on defense that Smith had any impact

Nihilist:
This line of argument is very very poor. If we apply thr same question to Argentina, the conclusion is that the likes of Messi Aguero ADM Higuain Macsherano etc are overrated

Agüero, Higuain, ADM are very much overrated. But again you are missing the point like a free throw. Argentina can at least boast of narrowly losing out of all 3 trophies. Losing in the finals (close games) England cannot even get to semi final FFS so your example na offside

airmark:
So dont try to shy away from your ish and dont bring terry and co into it. Have we not seen bayern against unknown rostov players suffering for boathand's stvpidity? It is possible for a group of great players having the likes of boathand around, spoiling their efforts.

Apoche cra cra is a very senseless individual. Boateng was terrible in that match but when he left the pitch what was the scoreline? And what was the final score?

Just show us the Boateng among the Three Lions of England. I don't know when you would stop your senseless, burukutu analogies

airmark:
Mr. man, my shock was how any human being would put elber over batigoal. Nobody is arguing with you on him being overrated. So dont try to shy away from your ish and dont bring terry and co into it. Have we not seen bayern against unknown rostov players suffering for boathand's stvpidity? It is possible for a group of great players having the likes of boathand around, spoiling their efforts. The issue here is elber and batistuta, below stats you dropped murdered you a long time. But like ajakaja that you are, keep disgracing yourself.

I was also shocked when you came onto this forum and did not know the difference between a DM and a deep-lying playmaker.

The argument on who is better is moot. At the end of the day the titles and Elber's contribution to them are lucid for all to see.

Boateng had a bad game vs Rostov. Big whoop! In 2013 we lost to phucking BATE Borisov from Belarus you daft he-goat. Didn't stop Bayern from a CL and didn't stop Germany from a World Cup title. Big players know how to rise to the occasion

The question I have been asking and you are yet to give a coherent answer to is why do the all star Lampard, Beckham, Owen, John Terryble and Ferdinand keep failing at the biggest stage. Who is that 'Boateng' sabotaging their efforts? Why is that Boateng not doing so for Bayern and Germany and who are the daft coaches that keep picking him?

Apa. What stats murdered me? If we exclude penalties I'm sure the difference would be non existent.

Weyrey alaso

Ogbono FC

airmark:
If you are not a great player fifa and uefa will not bombard you with individual awards. Anybody can hide under the umbrella of a team and win trophies, but you cant do that when we are talking of notable individual awards. That's why the individual awards' shelf of calamitous boathand is almost empty. There are thousands of players that have won ucl and world cup trophies, compared to the exclusive individual award winners. I can name many average players with trophies but uninspiring individual awards. Kids like you will not know who weah is , i dont blame you. You and your master will soon start writing boathand's name and beckenbauer on the same line.

You will never understand the concept of overrated players with that your brain wey dey always do paku paku like I pass my neighbor generator. Why have those individual awards not been converted to titles? Owen, Beckham, Ferdinand, Lampard, Terry have all won multiple individual awards so simple logic dictates that these amalgam of stars in one team should be beasting and destroying teams like the 92 Dream Team. The question then for any intelligent mind is why do they keep failing year in year out? The odd outlier or bad tournament is understandable but when this collective keep failing every two years like clockwork only a certified crazeman like you would not see that these players are overrated

You that thought all DM's were deep-lying playmakers as at 2014 want to tell me about George Weah. Ori e ti gbale

airmark:
Funniest thing is A40's boss, dayo, would leave the f00l to continue disgracing himself. How a man in his senses would rate elber above batigoal, is still a mystery.

Apoche cra cra the village eediot. Batistuta was overrated. This has been proven beyond reasonable doubt

You are the same phool that claimed Weah is better than David Villa.

Judging players solely on individual awards without discretion or common sense

Play play play play Leipzig go win this league oh

birdman:
shoulda let jr walk. lebron makes guys look better than they really are

Better ke? He is only there cos they share the same agent

lolawilliams:
klay still better pass our JR smith na

Lol perks of sharing the same agent with LeBron. Parapo tins

raumdeuter:
Wolfsburg, Leverkusen Bremen Mochengladbach are all having a torrid season

Next season in the CL we might see 2 new teams from Germany

Wolfsburg lost too many players. Didn't see them going too far. Hoffenheim and Hertha especially are showing last season wasn't a fluke

I don dey observe that Toljan since the Rio Olympics. That is another guy I would nominate to replace Lahm

Chei see Chicharito pk miss, later apoche cra cra go come here dey yarn nonsense

Wetin do Cavs now? Maybe you guys have started feeling yourselves too much.

Roland17:
@ A40

Shey una go chase away Bradley just like that? Klay dey really fall my hand this year. The guy is not improving at other aspects of the game and his shooting has gotten worse

afrodoc2:
All these would have held water if the argument was Batistuta vs Shevy or Batistuta vs Romario.
But so we don't lose context let's pause to remember this debate is about

Batistuta with 0.57 league goals per game vs Elber with 0.51

Batistuta with 56 international goals vs Elber with 7

Batistuta with 10 World Cup goals vs Elber with 0

Batistuta with goals against Brazil, Netherlands, England, Mexico, Colombia vs Elber with goals against El Salvador and Ecuador.

Batistuta honoured with a bronze statue erected by a grateful club vs Elber with a brazen defence engineered by a grateful NL fan

Lmao. Batistuta cannot shine Romario's boots abeg. No point joining them in the same sentence

Elber - 25 Champions League goals
Batistuta - 7

Elber - 4 BL titles
Batistuta - 1 Serie A

Elber - 1 CL
1 Intercontinental Cup

Batistuta 10 World Cup goals 8 of them vs Greece, Japan, Jamaica, Nigeria

No goals from open play in the K.O stage
No semi final appearance

Overrated. Batistuta ko Batshuayi ni

Opelope penalty the Greatest Batistuta would not have scored a single goal in the Knockout stage of the World Cup.

afrodoc2:
It is a joke to compare these 2 players, you can only bobo those that did not watch them play and even Elber himself no go gree say e better Batistuta.
Batistuta was scoring these goals in the hardened serie A when serious defenders were running that city. Yet he hit 20 goals at least 5 times something Elber did only 1 time in the inferior German league.
Talking about international soccer Batigol scored 56 goals in 78 matches including 10 in the World Cup. He also scored against Brazil twice, against chile, Colombia, Uruguay, Netherlands, England , Romania and Mexico.
Elber scored a grand total of 7 goals for Brazil, we thank God for his life. But who did he score against? El Salvador, Ecuador hat trick, Wales and Russia. TALK ABOUT PADDING STATS
I don't know about you but 56 is waaaay more than 7 especially when Mr 56 also has 10 goals against World Cup teams while Mr 7 is padding stats against never do wells like El Salvador, Ecuador and Wales that had not even smelled World Cup in decades.

The numbers are there and in your face. Arguing about the difficulty of the league is moot. For a large part of Elber's good years Serie A teams were not the strongest teams in Europe. Between 97-2002 the Bundesliga was represented in the Champions League Final by 3 different sides, so turn the dodo to the other side it is burning.

Even if Batistuta hit 50 goals 10 times his total league goals are still 184 and work out at 0.57 goals per game to Elber's 0.51. Not forgetting Batistuta was a penalty taker as well which likely inflated his numbers

At International football Batistuta went to 3 World Cups! 3 with Argentina and never got past the quarterfinal. He scored 10 goals in the World Cup. Six of them against Greece (World cup debutants) and the mighty Reggae boys from Jamaica. Bwahahahaha

He went to Korea Japan and couldn't lead his country out of a group with England, Nigeria and Sweden. The O in his middle name stands for overrated

With a measly Serie A title and no International club title of note. 10 World cup goals. 80% of them vs Greece, Japan, Jamaica and Nigeria. Abeg don't make me cry

This Apoche cra cra needs a brain transplant. So he is equating Samuel Murray from Burundi league to Elber a CL Winner. I don't know when this phool would stop interpreting things with such a high degree of daftness. Anuofia

afrodoc2:
It is blasphemy for anyone who watched Elber and Batigol to come here and say Elber was better or to downgrade Batigol and hype Elber.
I am at a conference now, will respond at the end of the day.

Busting myths and popular urban legend is my forte. Too many people for here be sheep and would follow follow to their ruin if care is not taken.

I have brought out their numbers in league competition. Even at International level Batistuta is not as good as advertised. 3 World Cups. Not one goal from open play in the knockout stage. Just pumping goals vs Immortal football powerhouses like Jamaica, Japan, Croatia, Nigeria, Greece e.t.c

Ibime:
When someone said this boy is slow, he would not take it as fact.

To him 133 in 260 looks better than 184 in 318.

And he calls himself Excel guru?

In other words Elber scored 1 in 2 playing for the best team in Bundesliga where it is easier to score, whilst Batigol scored 1 in 1.7 playing for the 4th/5th team in Serie A which was harder to score in.

Idime the Dim one from Idimu. Should we take a bet and you show where I claimed to be an Excel guru? Let's see who is slower between the two of us. The good book says a phool and his money are quickly parted. Let us see if your consistently phoolish utterances would not leave you bankrupt.

Afrodoc argued that Batistuta was waaay better. At a closer glance we can see the difference is minute.

Elber - 0.51 goals per game
Batistuta - 0.57 goals per game

Considering Elber was not Bayern's default penalty taker like Batistuta was how can anybody argue Batistuta was waaay better?

Who cares if he was playing in the 4th placed team? Like its a given he woulda shone elsewhere

FBS:
But he won the race. Innit?
The media don't generally like people with extravagant lifestyles but who are they to judge?
Even Lineker was saying the same thing. Whats the hoopla about tactics. A winner will do anything to win as long as he didn't break any rules.

Mercedes wanted nico to win cos he was going to retire. A wonderfully kept secret. Such automated yampions wont be remembered for long.

He won but kinda looked like a jackass. Its one thing to not be liked by the public and another by the fellow drivers on the grid. Its not a popularity contest but in that race he kinda needed help

It was an exercise in futility and pretty sad to watch. He shoulda just crashed into Rosberg on Turn one and hoped his car made it out in one piece. That would have given him a better shot