TerryCarr:

most of the worlds standard of beauty is Caucasian thats a fact it's not opinion. why do you think the Horn of africa is held as the pretty in africa? because a lot of them don't look too black.




why would you accept the way it is? thats a problem, it's a shame that half of the population is left out for being too "black" but that's not uncommon in mixed nations. the whitest rule while the rest are just there, the black you are worst off you are.
http://thewip.net/2010/10/15/not-too-dark-and-not-too-light-the-deadly-balance-of-skin-color-in-sudan/
http://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/hala-al-karib/politics-and-culture-of-skin-bleaching-in-sudan


if the government didn't kill them off yet

Terry, i think you are waaaay over your head in this one. This sounds it is more about you than anything else, than cultures, and societies you are not familiar with. i leave this one alone and have you rethink or self- evaluate.

gallivant:


Those Africans are European nationals so they are representing their adopted countries.I don't know any African country that participates in European contests.It's only horners that feel the need to be part of Arabian events and daily lifes.It's pathetic that you also in Arab league, when did you become Arabs?

It's only horners that feel the need to be part of Arabian events and daily lifes

Actually this is incorrect. In Fact, over 65% of Ethiopians are orthodox Christians, so they are hardly into Arabian events.

It's pathetic that you also in Arab league, when did you become Arabs

Arabic is a unitifying language in all of Sudan, hence the reason why it is in the Arabic league. Likewise Sudan and Egypt were one country until the 1950's, infact the first independent president in both countries was Sudanese.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Naguib

Also there is a obvious overlapp of people in both countries, so there is a kinship between both nations, and both nations obviously know that. So it makes sense.

Sudan been part of the Arabic league since 1956.

You lost half of the best land in Sudan already. It's called South Sudan. wink

But the North is a little bit more historically significant.



They got best land, but we have other things going for us. LOL

Regardless, South Sudanese are great people and i am proud i have some of them as friends.


Cheers

gallivant:
What are Africans doing participating in miss arab contests? Do the Arabs send beauties to miss Africa? It is mental colonization at its best. It's sounds stup!d to try and comply to beauty standards of Arabia when Sudanese are considered Africans by everybody. .

@Gallivant

Let me turn this question to you as well. Why are Africans competing for Miss England and France? Since the majority of the population is native Europeans.


The contestants is not only within the Levant or Arabian Peninsula, Most North African countries participate including Somalia. Also both countries are part of the Arab league, so yes they participate. As i mentioned you have some individual in Sudan that fit what is considered beautiful in the arab world

For example Nancy Ajaj




She fits within their standards. Is it biase? yup. But these silly beauty contest is indeed biase. Because each of us individually have our own idea what is beautiful. Honestly we should look at people inward appearance instead of the outward appearance which matters the most.

Fulaman198:


I don't agree with how you put West and Central Africa together as one, because it's wrong.

West Africa is a very diverse region (so is Central Africa in a way).

Are you saying that the Standard of beauty in neighbouring Chad (which borders both Sudan and Nigeria) would be the same as the standard of beauty in a country like Congo?

Or the standard of beauty in a country like Nigeria which has thousands of standards of beauty be the same as say even our neighbours Benin?

Everyone has certain standards Fulaman within any group of people and society. Even within the same society you have individual who may not comply with the local beauty standards. As far as West and Central Africa, i am not throwing them together, but stating they have their own beauty standards like everyone else. Honestly, at the end of the day, majority people are drawn to people that look like them. Call it human tribalism as you like, but that's the way it is.

TerryCarr:


if a person of prominently "black" features becomes miss sudan they would trip balls[/img]

I do not have the slightly idea what you mean by this Terry. Firstly, Sudan never hardly participate in global beauty contest due to the lack of clothing in the contest. Secondly, we do participate in the miss Arab contest, and frankly most of them look way to local in order to win, and the contestant is usually Nile valley Sudanese.

EXamples.
Khartoum

[img]http://sudanembassy.com.pk/ar/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Afra-mool.jpg[/img]










and compare to Miss Arab Sudan.

[img]http://www.mohammadi.ca/photos/albums/userpics/10001/Miss%2BArab%2B3.JPG[/img]

This miss Arab Sudan among many looks very local, and we were discussing this some time ago on facebook. Although she is represents about 50% of the current population, they should had got somebody the complied to Arab beauty standards, because everyone has their own standard, there is a European Standard, East Asian Standard, Arab standard, West and Central African standard, and Horn of African standard. Her beauty standard is a Horn of African beauty and not a Arabian one nor possibly other African group Standard. She among others i have witness in Horner specific, but that will not win in any contest in the Arab world.

They should have chosen someone close to these types.

http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/122/2470a03eb17d4bb2a8500429dac9bed4/l.jpg
http://tasneemalsultan.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/IMG_0256-900x600.jpg

Although they represent 10 percent of the population, but individual such as this comply to the supposedly beauty standards of the arab world. Is it biase? Yup. But measuring beauty is biase, hence the expression beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

Now if we are talking about within the Continent of Africa or International beauty contest (if Sudan ever enter such a thing) or the Miss Muslim World contest, and since they are somewhat unbiase in comparison to the contest i mentioned, sure why not have a person from South Kordofan or Darfur represent the entire country. Which is not a problem for most people here.

if a person of prominently "black" features becomes miss sudan they would trip balls

So, this quote you stated really does not make sense nor hold any validity. Since most the the supposedly beauty contestants are extremely local.

TerryCarr:

i don't think their could ever be a "unity" between north and south. they are different racially, culturally, & mentally. and lets not forget the whole racial slavery thing which is still going on in Sudan & Mauritania the slaves should take not from Haiti, Zanzibar and other revolts blacks did

Actually, i am here now, and i did not see thus far any evidence of a active slave market. The situation in Sudan is very different from the Mauritanian reality. Like anywhere in the world, you have a underground, so Sudan is no differences from other parts of the world.

For example this in the western world

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/05/19/modern-day-slavery-america-must-fight-epidemic-human-trafficking-here-at-home/

It is not only a third world issues, it is happening in supposedly developed nations to.

KidStranglehold:
Most of the population in (Northern)Sudan are black but have become Arabized. They're still black but are what we call "Afro-Arabs". People use the term "Arab" very loosely as if its a race. Arab is a pan-ethnicity and Arabs do not have a homogeneous origin. Egyptians and Maghrebis are not true Arabs in the sense that they are from the Arabian peninsula. Their just an Arabized people.

Not to rain on your parade, what i find ironic sometimes is Afrocentrist. At one moment we are black, and other times we are mixed breed arabs, especially when a large part of the population look similar to these people.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBveQ84hC6A



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x16SYu-uHBo



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFkE1kYXohY


It should not be about appearances, i noticed in some sudanese videos, the same tire as racially remarks come from you area of the world. In defining who and what is Nubian. Which is pretty ironic, if you ask me, especially coming from alien who do not have a clue of the culture.

It gets annoying and old after a while, and very predictable. Although i think the Somali poster is wrong with his post, and some respects i can understand where he is coming from about certain issues.

Rafikizolo:


I agree, the attempts of the likes of Gaddafi and Mugabe to try and rush a political union of all African countries would be absolutely ridiculous. But that is actually something that was discussed at several African Union meetings and the regional blocks forming countries was supposed to be the "phase 1" of the proposed future union.

I don't know if it would work with North Africans at this stage. In modern urban african culture and pop-culture the North is almost never referenced in the many pan-african commercials and billboard ads that we see on our continent (the likes of DSTV, Coca-Cola, Airtel) so I think there's a very large disconnect in the consciousness of unity and what pan-africanism is between the two regions. Also, I have only met 2 North Africans in my whole life who acknowledged that they were African and considered themselves African first instead of exclusively affiliating their identities with North Africans or Arabs. The rest of the North Africans I've met have found more brotherhood with Israelis than Sub-Saharans.

I don't think the language thing will be as much of an issue as you think it will be for a pan-sub-saharn nation to thrive. Almost all of our Sub-Saharan nations are very new (Libya, the first African nation to get independence will only be 64 years old this year) and there are many countries such as Nigeria with nearly 250 tribes that are doing very well (Tanzania for example has 125 tribes).

yeah it is a divide btw North Africa and sub saharan Africa, which is sad in a way. One country could have bridge that divide would had been "Sudan" because it has elements of both regions within her populations, and possibly Mauritania as well. So two countries could had been that bridge of the divide. Oh well.

Rafikizolo:
Hi friends, I have lurked on this site for a long time but decided to create an account today after some recent disturbing and disheartening posts I've seen in the culture section these past few weeks (not going to name people or even the threads I am referring to).
I am a Kenyan-American (dual citizenship) who has lived in South Africa and the United States and visits Kenya regularly. Admittedly, in all these countries, all of the Africans I associate with are fairly progressive so maybe I have a few misconceptions about the things I'm about to discuss here.

In all my time, I've never seen so much illegitimate and unprovoked childishness and hatred from people as I have on this forum with the exception of radical white nationalist groups like the KKK and Stormfront, etc. I'm being very serious right now. People on this forum are better at spitting hatred towards black people than some white neo-nazis, and WE ARE BLACK.


I'm not saying everyone on this forum is like this of course, but why are there so many people who are? Why attack South Africans/Kenyans and tear-down their looks and cultures because you're Nigerian and feel that you are superior? Why dehumanize "bantus" because you are Somali and feel that you're different and more culturally/genetically advanced? None of it makes sense, and one offense is not better than the other. Why must posts that are dedicated to praising our beautiful African women always devolve into tribalistic nonsense?


I'm only 20 years old, but in my opinion, no functioning adult should even be involved in a debate about which country has the most beautiful women... everybody knows they've seen both ugly women and pretty women everywhere they go, and it doesn't matter what you think anyway. Right now there is a white guy somewhere who only finds Swiss women attractive and will swear on his life that they are the most beautiful people in the world, but obviously everyone here would probably disagree with him. Nobody here who thinks, Nigerian/Ghanian/Angolan/Somali/Kenyan/Tanzanian/etc women are the most beautiful are any more correct than that white man.


All of these unnecessary divisions are foolish in my opinion. National identities are created and destroyed constantly. 100 years ago, there was no Kenyan national identity, no Nigerian identity, no Malawian identity, there wasn't a Pakistani identity or a South Korean identity either. And 1000 years ago there wasn't even an overarching black identity in Africa. All of these internet wars that are fought between nations are so arbitrary. Right now countries like Kenya, Rwanda, Tanzania, Uganda and Burundi are working towards a political and economic union to form a new country, while leaders of the African union are constantly working towards African unity and have spoken in favor of creating a unified African state. Why are people on here so backwards?


When I listen to Nigerian music or South African music I do not feel inferior or jealous or unworthy. I feels so proud. I feel proud of all African achievements. Yet some people on here have written posts claiming that Nigeria is the best country because it has the best music and everyone else is jealous and it has the biggest economy and is therefore untouchable and all other African countries are sub-par and nobody can match Nigeria's excellence etc, etc. By that "logic", the United States is undeniably the best country in the entire world and every African country can suck it (including Nigeria) because the United States has the most popular musicians in the world (and that's not changing any time soon) and has the world's largest economy (Nigeria isn't even in the top 25 largest world economies).


So please, can we move on from this childishness? As Kenyan, i see all African people as my brothers (even Cushites, idk what Axum says) and I know literally dozens, perhaps hundreds of people who see things the same way. So why so much foolishness here? We are all family. One Africa, One Fate.

Not to rain on your parade i don't think it would work. Question, will North African countries be included? In a one Africa. I can see regional integration for example west African has ecowas, but minus Mauritania, and east African is developing a union and with a common language Swahili and English, and a possibility South Sudan may join them once the dust is clear there. The horn of Africa, i don't know. It is a likely hood Egypt and what is left of Sudan may join forces in the distance future, especially in Business, since many Egypt companies are starting to invest in Northern part of Sudan, and a new road connecting the countries as well, but mainly for tourism. I think it will be more regional than anything else or regional blocks.

Let me say it is pretty obvious, considering the proximity, and they take a look in the videos and compare.

Hm, let see Northern Sudanese.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBveQ84hC6A



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5cJdp1cx2w


Nubian association Sudan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxO26pe7izw

Khartoum is a bad example especially among the sufi order which consist of multiple ethnic groups, which is over hundred.


Now ethnic Ja'alin which number 3 million, one of the largest group in the North.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duTaW4Wb2v0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ja%27alin_tribe

AmunRaOlodumare: I won't force you to accept anything you don't want to know or believe in, but books published by the Cambridge University Press are peer-reviewed.

My suggestion to you, go to the annual conference, and really see what going on, because these are the people that do the actually ground work. BTW, half the monuments in that region is also written in Egyptians (Jebal Barkal, nuri pyramids, El kurru tomb and temples among many others is deciphered. At the same time it will be good to have the meroitic texts deciphered as well, it can answer many questions.

I like your enthusiasm, and i check with people who studied this and they have not heard of it, and i tried to check in the internet, because this is a very very big deal in Egyptology/nubiology and so far no reputable articles has been produce or any mainstream news outlet reported this. This would be a good example because these people would know, and scholars everywhere that study languages or studying the history of ancient cultures would be scrambling everywhere, and start decipher the hidden text.

https://www.britishmuseum.org/research/research_projects/all_current_projects/berber-abidiya_project/the_site/the_site_the_temple.aspx
https://www.britishmuseum.org/research/research_projects/all_current_projects/sudan/berber-abidiya_project.aspx
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/35-ancient-pyramids-discovered-in-sudan-necropolis/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/07/pyramids-discovered-sudan-graves-artifacts_n_2637525.html





because many scholars throughout the world are trying to decipher the meroitic texts, so far they are able to identify names of gods and rulers. Until there is a peer review, and it gets a stamp of approval throughout the academic community everywhere in the world including where the languages is spoken, your news is just fluff.

The Meroitic language (/mɛroʊˈɪtɪk/) was spoken in Meroë and the Sudan during the Meroitic period (attested from 300 BCE) and went extinct about 400 CE. It was written in two forms of the Meroitic alphabet: Meroitic Cursive, which was written with a stylus and was used for general record-keeping; and Meroitic Hieroglyphic, which was carved in stone or used for royal or religious documents. It is poorly understood owing to the scarcity of bilingual texts.


A hieroglyphic Meroitic inscription adorns this royal votive plaque of king Tanyidamani. It is from the temple of Apedemak in Meroë. Circa 100 BCE, Walters Art Museum, Baltimore.
The classification of Meroitic is uncertain due to the scarcity of data and difficulty in interpreting it. Since the alphabet was deciphered in 1909, it has been proposed that Meroitic is related to Nubian and similar languages of the Nilo-Saharan phylum. Claude Rilly (French: [ʁiji]) is the most recent proponent of the Nilo-Saharan idea: he proposes that it is Eastern Sudanic, the Nilo-Saharan family that includes Nubian (Rilly 2004, 2007, 2012). Rowan (2006, 2011), on the other hand, notes that the Meroitic sound inventory and phonotactics (the only aspects of the language which are secure) are similar to those of the Afroasiatic languages, and dissimilar from Nilo-Saharan languages. For example, very rarely does one find the sequence CVC, where the consonants (C) are both labials or both velars. This is similar to consonant restrictions found throughout the Afro-Asiatic language family, suggesting that Meroitic might have been an Afroasiatic language like Egyptian. The issue is unresolved and most classifications list Meroitic either as questionably Nilo-Saharan or as unclassified (as Joseph Greenberg did).[1]

TerryCarr: Egypt is probably the only nation in Africa with a national holiday that has "pagan" influence/origin

Actually, not only in Egypt, but this holiday is practiced in Sudan as well. It is part of the national holiday. As i remembered people usually take a break and some go to the parks and basically have family gathering.

http://sudan.usembassy.gov/holidays2.html

Sham Al Nassim (Spring Holiday) is the first Monday following Easter. The origin of the holiday is obscure but is believed to be descended from one of the ancient Egyptian festivals in connection with the beginning of spring. This is a non-religious non-national general public holiday, designed mainly to give a welcome break to the tedium of work. It is very much a family holiday and many families pack picnic lunches and spend a day in shaded areas by the river. It is also referred to as the day to “sniff the breezes”.
The information on holidays was taken from Maria Baba’s CROSS CULTURAL STUDY OF KHARTOUM, April 1981 mimeograph

KidStranglehold:

Um...I was not the one who brought up lookism, that was Ajuran. I was just warning you of his racial agenda which almost everyone on this site is aware of, even OTHER SOMALIS!!!

I was strictly talking about the ANCIENT Nubians and not modern Sudan like you and Ajuran.

What is funny we are all the same race but simply different variations of it. That is what i think and believe. but anyway lets get back with the dinka people, which i understand it consist of many different groups.

KidStranglehold:

Yes I agree. Nubian is actually a ROMAN origin word.

I'll follow the guy, seems interesting.

Anyways sorry for being a bit wild, but I was actually trying to save you from Ajuran. He's trying to claim Nubian history for himself, while saying us Bantu's have a obsession, when hes the one with the obsessions. I posted facts about the early Nubians just to rain on his parade. Since he has a dislike for those type of Africans. Just be careful of him. He uses Nubians/Northern Sudanese for his racial aganda, like SOME horner supremacist do. Not all them though but those like Ajurans.

But anyways I'm going to check the link out.

This is the last time i will comment on this. I consider Sudan the fault line of the whole of Africa. It borders with its northern neighbor, the Horn of Africa, and the people further south and the Sahel Zone or Chad. In other words, every single last African faces is well represented. A Tigray or Somali can come there and get confuse for Sudanese, Likewise a yoruba can come there and again get confuse for Sudanese, and so a fairskinned berber or tuareg or and American celebrity Halle Berry can be confuse for Sudanese. So, this argument of lookism is quite quite silly,since Sudan is a fault line country of the whole African continent.

Only group we don't have is the Khoisan but then again who knows.

KidStranglehold: @ababda

Fulaman I know this is offtopic and forgive me, but I have to ask ababda this because its been boggling my mind.

Does this have any truth And does Al Bashir really thjinks like this? I just read this...


Source:
http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_3474.shtml

This actually surprised me a bit. Was the situation of Darfur a black vs Arab thing, or was the Western media trying to make it into that? I thought Bashir considered himself Arab?

Interesting, I have not seen or read that report. So i cannot really comment. However the situation in Darfur is very complex, it has a great deal to do with resources, which is the main problem, and people being marginalized.Having said that, this black and arab issue, again it is complex, because there are some tribal issues going on with the different factions within Darfur. Also, over 60 percent of the Sudanese army is of Darfurian origin, so you can see the complexity of the issue, it is not simply Black and White, there are many gray areas.

Fulaman198:

Yah a lot that do not grow up in the forest do not have those markings, some basketball USA players are Dinka none of them have those markings

Yeah, it seems like none of the ones in the West as far as i know have the mark, however i met a few in Egypt that had the mark. I need to talk to one of my Dinka friends and ask how common are these marks? I am assuming it is more so within some village, than in places such as Juba.

KidStranglehold: Okay Afro-Asiatic language? Egyptian? Still does not tell us that Cushite type people were in Nubia.

And are you not aware that before the formation of the Kushite Empire, the Ancient Egyptians ruled over the areas south of Upper Egypt and had colones too? The Egyptians greatly influenced the Kushite, even in their own script which I said before. So its no coincidence that you see Afro-Asiatic writing in Kush. Also some of the first temples in Nubia were build by the Egyptians. Not only that, but Kush ruled over Egypt...So again no coincidence that we see Afro-Asiatic writing in Nubia. Still no proof of Cushite type people influencing Nubians like Ajuran and that poster from the Sudanforum are saying.




Anyways back on topic.

I think these Europeans scholars have us all confused, and we need to get off the language bubble, and the nubian term is very i[b]naccurate.[/b] Here is a interesting comment from a guy by the name of (Ta Seti), he is actually Dinka extraction. follow the conversation with him and nubian king, and what he said is pretty much accurate, and scholars even quote this.

http://www.sudanforum.net/showthread.php?t=89291&page=5

Fulaman198: I feel bad, we have derailed this thread too much. A different thread should be opened up. What we are discussing has absolutely nothing to do with Dinka people and their ethnic markings.

I agree this is about the Dinka, and they are great people, and i have some dinka friends, but none with those marks. lol

KidStranglehold:

I'm just stating facts so that Somali supremacist doesn't get any ideas that the Ancient Nubians were his people when they were not. YES! The Ancient Egyptians adopted a Afro-Asaitic language, but that came later though, because the earliest pre-dynastic Egyptians were of Nile Saharan type. And what monuments are you taklking about? Because IIRC the Kushite language was indignous Nubian, but the script itself was Egyptian writing derived. But again the language was Nubian which=Nile Saharan. Or else are you talking about the Ancient Egyptian monuments?

For example the meroitic language is not fully deciphered, however there are monuments that is written in the Afroasiatic languages, a good example is the nuri pyramids, temple of soleb, el kurru tomb, and parts of the temple of jebal barkal, which was written in the Afro Asiatic language among many others. Which some scholars draw to conclusion from archaeological evacuation that the region was linguistically diverse, which was probably a array of different people.

Nuri pyramids

[img]http://orientenresor.se/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2011/10/Nuri-F-31-700x350.jpg[/img]

El kurry tomb


temple of soleb.



Buten temple in Sudan national museum.

The wall inscription was in ancient Egypt, which scholars are a to decipher. Whereas the meroitic monuments such as the pyramid fields of Meroe among again many others others scholars are not able to decipher the script in its entirety, but they are getting close. What i am saying, that the area was obviously linguistically diverse, which most likely had both Nilo Saharan speakers and well as AfroAsiatic speakers, and you can see that with the faces today. It is quite obvious, if you are objective.

lets not further derail this thread, and stay on topic.

KidStranglehold:

That poster does not know what he is even talking about.

1. Modern day Ethiopians and Sudanese people are NOT the one Ancient people, not even close. The Haplogroups that Ethiopians carry like E-V12 is rather recent and new. Heck the E1b1b is younger than the E1b1a group which most West Africans carry. Also the title of the most Ancient people goes to the Khoisans and that is even debatable. Because new studies shows an African American male carried the OLDEST Y-DNA ever found, which is not even found in Khoisans, and lets forget Ethiopians.
2. Modern Ethiopian people and Nubians(including Modern Sudanese) were never one people or one ancient civilization. That claim sounds typical of someone thats a Horner supremacist, because I noticed they always try to claim Nubian civilization for their own, just like Ajuran does.
A. Like I said a million times...Cushite people were never on the Nile Valley, but Nile Saharans. Until of course the Axum Empire came into play, but that was rather latter one and I mean very late and it was not even permanently.
B. Pre Dynastic Nubians again were many different Nile Saharan type people based on many studies that came out.
C. Cushite people ALWAYS lived in the horn.
3. More importantly if Ethiopians and Nubians were ever even related then show me a study where modern Ethiopians group with the Ancient Nubians or the ancient population of Northern Sudan. No one can, because no such study exist and because again Cushite people NEVER lived on the Nile Valley in antiquity. Not only that, but contrary to belief the Ancient Egyptians NEVER grouped with horners(before Nile Saharans that is).

Source:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19215865

Hate to rain on some peoples parade...But not even Modern Upper Egyptians group with the Ancient Egyptians really. Incidentally, many of the STRs used in this study are the same ones that tied ancient Egyptians to sub-Saharan Africans in the DNA Tribes analysis.

Well, that is his opinion, and to be quite honest many Northern Sudanese could care either way. Lets be realistic there is not any real border differences btw the nations. What i mean there was obvious interaction with other groups, whether it is the horn, or chad. Also some of the poster quoted similarites with other groups besides the horn, and they also talked about the genetic diversity which in some respect includes all African groups. Also historically, and i think i mentioned it, nearly half of the monuments are in the AfroAsiatic language as well, which we cannot deny, what i am saying that the area that is now Northern Sudan, most likely had people that was both Nil Saharan and AfroAsiatic groups. Which the monuments and today faces pretty much indicates, a diversity of different people.

Fulaman198:

Very interesting information, thank you. The Copt, that would mean you are of native Egyptian ancestry is that correct?

Technically speaking yes, but my family lived in Sudan for well over hundred years mainly in a place called dongola, and later during the British Khartoum, and i have a strange feeling there has been some mixing because my appearance don't stand out in comparison to the Copts i seen in New Zealand and now America.

Ajuran:


Do you know who you are more closely related to Bantus or Cushitic people?

Here is a quote and website, this is what some Sudanese think, this is not my opinion but of another poster (Swa Swa) in the forum i follow and apart of. It was a interesting discussion.

Genetic Diversity of a certain ethinic Group is done by DNA & Genetic studies. Rules & Etiopian has the highest Gene DIVERSITY = 24.
people of greece has the lowest = 2.

High Gene Diversity means that people are ancient & original.

This means that Sudanese & Ethiopian are the most ancient people in the world. It goes without saying that people of north Sudan & Ethiopian CARRY similar features .
You can not Differntiate between Dangla, Shwiaga, Halfaween, & other north Sudanese people & Ethiopian. a
I believe that once upon a time we were one country or you can say one civilization. So north sudanese are here since the start of history.

http://www.sudanforum.net/showthread.php?t=171155

Now everyone has a different opinion about it, but that is the opinion of that particular poster. So who knows.

Fulaman198: Ababda, are you Nubian? If so can you speak Nubian language? Can you understand Kanuri/Teda?

I am not nubian i am Copt. What i understand about cultural nubians in the north they have about 11 different dialects i believe. As i understand it, groups such as the Jaliyan were Nubians but more or less arabized, they are one of the largest groups in the North, then you have the walfa, dongola, among other groups.

Ajuran: If nubians and sudanese are more related to bantus, why did they try to kill them, over a million died. lmao
I wish this forum had people from sudan.

Actually there are 3 of us here i believe, me copt, a sudanese hausa person, and another sudanese. However we rarely post here, because we don't really understand the landscape here, and frankly what happens here is none of our business, so why should a Sudanese consistently post here, because it does not make sense.

We don't call them bantus or nilotes but simply Junub or Junubee or southerners, (trust me) there is differences in opinion in regards to relationship with southerners including the nuba in the kodorfan region. However i will not discuss that here. If you have questions simply go to our website.

http://www.sudanforum.net/showthread.php?p=2574785#post2574785
http://www.sudanforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=2

We will be more than willing to answer your questions, it may produce a lively debate among our members. LOL

I am there as well under the same name.

KidStranglehold:

Cherrypicked photos as usual...First off Nubians are not one monolithic group, but consist of many different tribes. Second off how do you even know people in your photos are even ethic Nubians?? Third...ACTUAL NUBIANS from Sudan.

[img]http://www.sudaneseonline.info/upload13/Jul13/Midob_NubianSchool_Malha_N.Darfur.jpg[/img]
[img]http://2.bp..com/_x3qhxPLWFE8/R1H23vu488I/AAAAAAAAAC4/PdnG9zA3ris/s200/worker+in+the+clinic1021.jpg[/img]



Forth...Again you don't even know what Bantu means, so stop using the word since you're humiliating yourself badly. SOUTHERN SUDANESE ARE NOT BANTU!!!!!!! Meanwhile these people are! HA!


Fifth...Stop putting words in my mouth, just because of your broken argument. When did I say Nigerians were closely related to the Nubians?? Where?? More projection and Nigerians are not Bantu.

Actually the first group are Fur, and they are from the Darfur region. If you consider them Nubian and that is another subject of debate.

Now these people are nubians from northern Sudan nile valley.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxO26pe7izw



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzc6GRSCf24


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IVqvJvlse4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5cJdp1cx2w



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6OERd05V5w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWIwh0D_TLY
This is everyday people. As far as who is related to who as far as people personal opinion , It depends on who you are talking to. Some people talk about greater unity with parts of Egypt and the Horn of Africa, due to similarity of look of some people, and to a certain extent culture especially with Eritrea. Some see some similiarities with the people of Chad, and other advocate greater African unity. Many cultural Nubians feel like a island to themselves or consider themselves unique, from other groups. So, everything depends on the individual.

MamiWata:

No it is not a western point of view my dear. It's the point of view of a woman who enjoys sex and who knows many other West African women who will never enjoy sex because of what was done to them.

I know FGM is carried out by women. And it is us who will have to put an end to it. Not westerners with too much time on their hands...full-blooded, right-minded, African women like me.

Dear, it is not only a west African Thing. My family is from North Sudan, and Egypt, and it is pretty much alive and well there. However we don't use FGM which is a western term, we say Pharaonic circumcision. I do agree with you that the practice needs to end, by educating local women, who are the ones that mainly promote this practice.

MamiWata:

FGM and scarification are two very different things. FGM is done to promote female subservience and diminish female sex drive. When practiced as infibulation it can result in shock, death, a lifetime of painful menstruation, complications during childbirth etc. Scarification, on the other hand, is done to beautify both males and females of all social levels. It is done to help identify ethnicity. It is not considered hideous by those of us who do it. I have heard of no cases of shock or death. There have been infections but getting your ears pierced can also result in infection.

Btw it's eurocentrism not eurocentralism.

Now, you can say it is about female subservience (fgm), but that is from a western point of view. Due to the fact that older women in my former country are the ones that mainly promote this practice or better yet known as pharaonic circumcision hence the possible origin of the practice.