₦airaland Forum

@hakeem4


Yes evolution does not tell what is right or wrong . But do you agree that there must be logical implication of believing in evolution ? Pls tell me why robbery is not personally good for me

@hakeem4

If evolution is true, pls can you tell me the reason why the act of robbery is not personally good for me ? Or is it good for me to engage in the act of robbery ? Pls answer this very question

OBJECTION 1;
If the past generations of humanity can attain Islam without Prophet Muhammad, then what is the essence of his coming ?
REPLY;
God knew very well that Satan will incite some people to establish all other false faiths which would cause people to DEVIATE from original Islam (i:e believing in ONENESS of God and submitting to the will of God at any particular point in time). For example, Hindus believe in many gods, Buddhists believe that there is no need to believe in any God or god. Christians believe that God is three in one or one in three. Atheists believe that there is no God. Therefore, there is need for God to correct all these false teachings invented by Satan. This is one of the reasons God sent the Holy Qur'an through His last prophet to bring the humanity back to the original track. So prophet Muhammad (pbuh) came not to found a completely new faith but to REVIVE the original Islam.
OBJECTION 2;
So if Prophet Muhammad came to revive the original Islam with its MINIMUM requirements explained up there, then why ADDITIONAL requirements like five daily prayers, fasting, Zakat and other compulsory acts in Islam ?
REPLY:
Human beings are not in a position to understand completely the reasons why God commanded us to do some certain things. Yet we can still use our sense to fathom some of these reasons. The most obvious reason is that God want to test our obedience to His additional commands just like He tested the obedience of Abraham to the command of sacrificing his only son.
Another fathomable reason is that God want to create a specific mode of worship in Islam through which Muslims would be recognized among the people of other faiths.

Please which of the THREE PREMISES explained above is not true ?

Before you can become a sincere Christian, you must believe in ATONING WORK OF JESUS ON THE CROSS for your salvation.

But many generations of human being have lived and died BEFORE the arrival of Jesus and BEFORE his death on the cross. Hence, most of the PAST generations of human being are not opportuned to hear about Jesus and his atoning work on the cross; let alone believing in him as their Savior.
Therefore if, according to Christianity, Jesus is the ONLY TRUE WAY to reach God (John 14:6) and many generations have lived and died BEFORE his arrival, then Christianity also FAIL to comply with Premise 1 and Premise 2 because it was not started at the beginning and it is not within the reach of every human being.



Since we are able to FALSIFY all other faiths on the surface of the earth, the only faith EXPECTED to be approved by God for salvation of humanity is ISLAM.


But as we have done with other faiths, let us investigate whether Islam complies with Premise 1 and Premise 2 or also not.comply
Islam (from Arabic word 'aslama') simply means "Submission to the will of God at any point in time"

Qur'an declare as follows;
Yes- WHOEVER submits himself to God and is a doer of good,- he will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve ( Qur'an 2:112)

Therefore, the MINIMUM requirements for anyone to practice Islam (i:e Submission to will of God) and then become Muslim (i:e Submitter to the will of God) are;
1. Believe in oneness of God (which God has made known to every intelligent human being through many signs in His creation)
2. Submission to the will of God through performance of good deeds and avoidance of bad deeds ( which God has also made known to all human being through their conscience)

Therefore, if it happened that the past generations of human being were not opportuned to hear about any special revelation from God, then they can still become Muslims (submitters to the will of God) by fulfilling these minimum requirements.

But why these minimum requirements ? What about five daily prayers, fasting and other compulsory acts stipulated in the Qur'an brought by prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

God says in the Qur'an;
God does not impose upon any soul a duty but to the extent of its ability ( Qur'an 2:286).

Therefore, God cannot impose what is written in the Qur'an upon the people that never heard about any special revelation from God because it would have gone beyond their ablity.

Besides, it is not written in the Qur'an that Muhammad is the ONLY way as it is written in the Bible that Jesus is the ONLY way to reach God (John 14:6). So it is possible for the past generations of human being to become Muslims (i:e submitters to the will of God) just like Abraham, Moses and others have become Muslims even WITHOUT believing in Qur'an since it was yet to be revealed .

Practicing what is written in the Qur'an is ONLY a condition for the present human beings to become Muslims since it has now been revealed.

So being a Muslim just depend on submitting to the will of God base on what God has revealed at any particular point in time.

For example, one of the God's will that was revealed to Abraham is "Sacrifice your only son for Me". Since Abraham was able to submit to this very will, he has practiced Islam (i:e submission to God's will). Therefore, Abraham was a Muslim (submitter to the will of God). Yet we cannot say Abraham was a Christian because he has lived and died before the arrival of Jesus Christ, the person that make Christianity to be possible ( see John 14:6).

Qur'an States as follows;

Abraham was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was an upright and devoted Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists (Qur'an 3:67)

Hence, Islam (i:e submission to the will of God) is attainable by every human being irrespective of the place and time of his existence on the surface of the earth.
Therefore, Islam complies perfectly with Premise 1 and Premise 2.

This is the reason why Qur'an 3:19 declare as follows;
"Verily the only faith in the sight of God is Islam"

Do you think it is just a COINCIDENCE for Qur'an to contain this very verse while all other scriptures do not contain the names of their faiths talk less of saying their faiths are from God ?

Do you think it is just a COINCIDENCE for Islam to be named "Islam" rather than "Muhammadanism" ?

If the name of Islam is Muhammadanism then it would be in the same category with all other faiths that got their names from the names or title or locality of their founders (e.g Buddhism from Buddha, Hinduism from Hindu, Confucianism from Confucius, Zoroastrianism from Zoroaster, Christianity from Christ etc).

But Islam is UNIQUE among all other faiths on the surface of the earth. Its name is not derived from the word 'Muhammad' because Islam was never founded by him. Islam was founded by God Himself.

Premise 1: Any true faith from God that is meant for the salvation of humanity must have been in existence from the beginning of humanity

Why ?

Since the faith was meant for the salvation of humanity, it would not make sense if some part of humanity have lived and died before the establishment of that faith. In fact, they would have a genuine excuse to tender before God



Premise 2: Any true faith from God that is meant for the salvation of humanity must be within the reach of every human being irrespective of the place and time of his (her) existence.

Why ?

Since the faith was meant for the salvation of humanity, it would not make sense if that faith is not within the reach of some part of humanity. Again, they would also have a genuine excuse to tender before God.

Presently in the world we have Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Sikhism, Jainism, Bahaism and Shintoism

Now let us test the compliance of all these faiths with the two premises cited above.

Premise 3; Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Sikhism, Jainism, Bahaism and Shintoism all GOT THEIR NAMES from the names (or locality) of their founders. That is to say Buddhism came from the name Buddha, Hinduism from Hindu, Confucianism from Confucius, Zoroastrianism from Zoroaster, Judaism from Judah etc
Since all these faiths got their names from the names or locality of their founders and their founders are not the first set of human being on earth, all these faiths could not have been in existence from beginning of humanity. Therefore, they all FAIL to comply with Premise 1. Again, all these faiths are not within the reach of every human being. Therefore, they also FAIL to comply with Premise 2.

Therefore, we are left with Christianity and Islam

OBJECTION 1;
If the past generations of humanity can attain Islam without Prophet Muhammad, then what is the essence of his coming ?
REPLY;
God knew very well that Satan will incite some people to establish all other false faiths which would cause people to DEVIATE from original Islam (i:e believing in ONENESS of God and submitting to the will of God at any particular point in time). For example, Hindus believe in many gods, Buddhists believe that there is no need to believe in any God or god. Christians believe that God is three in one or one in three. Atheists believe that there is no God. Therefore, there is need for God to correct all these false teachings invented by Satan. This is one of the reasons God sent the Holy Qur'an through His last prophet to bring the humanity back to the original track. So prophet Muhammad (pbuh) came not to found a completely new faith but to REVIVE the original Islam.
OBJECTION 2;
So if Prophet Muhammad came to revive the original Islam with its MINIMUM requirements explained up there, then why ADDITIONAL requirements like five daily prayers, fasting, Zakat and other compulsory acts in Islam ?
REPLY:
Human beings are not in a position to understand completely the reasons why God commanded us to do some certain things. Yet we can still use our sense to fathom some of these reasons. The most obvious reason is that God want to test our obedience to His additional commands just like He tested the obedience of Abraham to the command of sacrificing his only son.

Another fathomable reason is that God want to create a specific mode of worship for the Muslims through which they would be recognized among the people of other faiths.


Please which of the premises and the analyses explained above is not true ?

Before you can become a sincere Christian, you must believe in ATONING WORK OF JESUS ON THE CROSS for your salvation.

But many generations of human being have lived and died BEFORE the arrival of Jesus and BEFORE his death on the cross. Hence, most of the PAST generations of human being are not opportuned to hear about Jesus and his atoning work on the cross; let alone believing in him as their Savior.

Therefore, if according to Christianity, Jesus is the ONLY TRUE WAY to reach God (John 14:6) and many generations have lived and died BEFORE his arrival, then Christianity also FAILED to conform with Premise 1 and Premise 2 because it was not started at the beginning and it is not within the reach of every human being.



Since we are able to FALSIFY all other faiths on the surface of the earth, the only faith EXPECTED to be approved by God for salvation of humanity is ISLAM.


But as we have done with other faiths, let us investigate whether Islam conform with Premise 1 and Premise 2 or not.
Islam (from Arabic word 'aslama') simply means "Submission to the will of God at any point in time"

Qur'an declare as follows;
Yes- WHOEVER submits himself to God and is a doer of good,- he will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve ( Qur'an 2:112)

Therefore, the MINIMUM requirements for anyone to practice Islam (i:e Submission to will of God) and then become Muslim (i:e Submitter to the will of God) are;
1. Believe in oneness of God (which God has made known to every intelligent human being through many signs in His creation)
2. Submission to the will of God through performance of good deeds and avoidance of bad deeds ( which God has also made known to all human being through their conscience)

Therefore, if it happened that the past generations of human being were not opportuned to hear about Qur'an or any special revelation from God, then they can still become Muslims (i:e submitters to the will of God) by fulfilling these minimum requirements.

But why these minimum requirements ? What about five daily prayers, fasting and other compulsory acts stipulated in the Qur'an brought by prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

God says in the Qur'an;
God does not impose upon any soul a duty but to the extent of its ability ( Qur'an 2:286).

Therefore, God cannot impose what is written in the Qur'an upon the people that never heard about any special revelation from God because it would have gone beyond their ablity.

Besides, it is not written in the Qur'an that Muhammad is the ONLY way as it is written in the Bible that Jesus is the ONLY way to reach God (John 14:6). So it is possible for the past generations of human being to become Muslims (i:e submitters to the will of God) just like Abraham, Moses, Jesus and others have become Muslims (submitters to the will of God) even WITHOUT believing in Qur'an since it was yet to be revealed .

Practicing what is written in the Qur'an is ONLY a condition for the present human beings to become Muslims since it has now been revealed.

So being a Muslim just depend on submitting to the will of God base on what God has revealed at any particular point in time.

For example, one of the God's will that was revealed to Abraham is "Sacrifice your only son for Me". Since Abraham was able to submit to this very will, he has practiced Islam (i:e submission to God's will). Therefore, Abraham was a Muslim (submitter to the will of God). Yet we cannot say Abraham was a Christian because he has lived and died before the arrival of Jesus Christ, the person that make Christianity to be possible (John 14:6)

Qur'an stated as follows;

Abraham was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was an upright and devoted Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists (Qur'an 3:67)

If believing in Muhammad (pbuh) is ABSOLUTELY a necessary condition for any one to become Muslim (submitter to the will of God), then why did Allah call Abraham( who came BEFORE Muhammad) an upright and devoted Muslim in the verse quoted above ?

Hence, Islam (i:e submission to the will of God) is attainable by every human being irrespective of the place and time of his existence on the surface of the earth.
Therefore, Islam conform perfectly with Premise 1 and Premise 2.

This is the reason why Qur'an 3:19 declare as follows;
"Verily the only faith in the sight of God is Islam"

Do you think it is just a COINCIDENCE for Qur'an to contain this very verse while the names of all other faiths in the world are no where to be found in their scriptures takless of saying their faiths are from God ?


Do you think it is just a COINCIDENCE for Islam to be named "Islam" rather than "Muhammadanism" ?

If the name of Islam is Muhammadanism then it would be in the same category with all other faiths that got their names from the names or title or locality of their founders (e.g Buddhism from Buddha, Hinduism from Hindu, Confucianism from Confucius, Zoroastrianism from Zoroaster, Christianity from Christ etc).

But Islam is UNIQUE among all other faiths on the surface of the earth. Its name was not derived from the name 'Muhammad' because Islam was never founded by him. Islam was founded by God Himself.

Premise 1: Any true faith from God that is meant for the salvation of humanity must have been in existence from the beginning of humanity

Why ?
Since the faith was meant for the salvation of humanity, it would not make sense if some part of humanity have lived and died before the establishment of that faith. In fact, they would have a genuine excuse to tender before God



Premise 2: Any true faith from God that is meant for the salvation of humanity must be within the reach of every human being irrespective of the place and time of his (her) existence.

Why ?
Since the faith was meant for the salvation of humanity, it would not make sense if that faith is not within the reach of some part of humanity. Again, they would also have a genuine excuse to tender before God.

Presently in the world we have Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Sikhism, Jainism, Bahaism and Shintoism

Now let us test the conformity of all these faiths with the two premises cited above.

Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Sikhism, Jainism, Bahaism and Shintoism all GOT THEIR NAMES from the names (or locality) of their founders. That is to say Buddhism came from the name Buddha, Hinduism from Hindu, Confucianism from Confucius, Zoroastrianism from Zoroaster, Judaism from Judah etc

Since all these faiths got their names from the names or locality of their founders and their founders are not the first set of human being on earth, all these faiths could not have been in existence from beginning of humanity. Therefore, they all FAILED to conform with Premise 1. Again, all these faiths are not within the reach of every human being. Therefore, they also FAILED to conform with Premise 2.

Therefore, we are left with Christianity and Islam

Paabakp

Explain first how Christianity conform with my premises 1and 2 above in my analysis

Enilove


You refused to explain how Christianity conform with my premises.

If you believed that God can establish all those CEREMONIAL mode of worship for the followers of Moses why do you think it is idolatry for such mode of worship to be established for followers of Muhammad ? God has promised to send a prophet LIKE MOSES in Deuteronomy 18:18. So such ceremonial mode of worship in the message brought by Muhammad should not be strange to us.

Enilove


Our forefathers tend to deviate from original Islam because they were yet to have a permanent reminder(Qur'an). Now that we have gotten a permanent reminder, the level of Idolatry has reduced compare to former times.

Yes, there is nothing special in Qur'an that Moses could not have delivered. But remember that Moses was never sent to the entire world.

During the time of Moses, there are also CEREMONIAL mode of worshing God which may look idolatry to people of nowadays; especially all the ritual acts involved in atonement sacrifice . Read what is written below; Leviticus 16:1-34

Now the Lord spoke to Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they offered profane fire before the Lord, and died; 2 and the Lord said to Moses: “Tell Aaron your brother not to come at just any time into the Holy Place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, lest he die; for I will appear in the cloud above the mercy seat.
3 “Thus Aaron shall come into the Holy Place: with the blood of a young bull as a sin offering, and of a ram as a burnt offering. 4 He shall put the holy linen tunic and the linen trousers on his body; he shall be girded with a linen sash, and with the linen turban he shall be attired. These are HOLY GARMENTS. Therefore he shall wash his body in water, and put them on. 5 And he shall take from the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats as a sin offering, and one ram as a burnt offering.
6 “Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering, which is for himself, and make atonement for himself and for his house. 7 He shall take the two goats and present them before the Lord at the doors of tabernacle of meeting. 8 Then Aaron shall CAST LOTS for the two goats: one lot for the Lord and the other lot for the scapegoat. 9 And Aaron shall bring the goat on which the Lord’s lot fell, and offer it as a sin offering. 10 But the goat on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make atonement upon it, and to let it go as the SCAPEGOAT into the wilderness.
11 “And Aaron shall bring the bull of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make atonement for himself and for his house, and shall kill the bull as the sin offering which is for himself. 12 Then he shall take a censer full of BURNING COAL OF FIRE from the altar before the Lord, with his hands full of sweet incense beaten fine, and bring it inside the veil. 13 And he shall put the incense on the fire before the Lord, that the cloud of incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the Testimony, lest he die. 14 He shall take some of the blood of the bull and SPRINKLE it with his finger on the mercy seat on the east side; and before the mercy seat he shall sprinkle some of the blood with his finger SEVEN TIMES 15 “Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering, which is for the people, bring its blood inside the veil, do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and before the mercy seat. 16 So he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions, for all their sins; and so he shall do for the tabernacle of meeting which remains among them in the midst of their uncleanness. 17 There shall be no man in the tabernacle of meeting when he goes in to make atonement in the Holy Place, until he comes out, that he may make atonement for himself, for his household, and for all the assembly of Israel. 18 And he shall go out to the altar that is before the Lord, and make atonement for it, and shall take some of the blood of the bull and some of the blood of the goat, and put it on the horns of the altar all around. 19 Then he shall sprinkle some of the blood on it with his finger SEVEN TIMES cleanse it, and consecrate it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel.
20 “And when he has made an end of atoning for the Holy Place, the tabernacle of meeting, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat. 21 Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man. 22 The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to an uninhabited land; and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.
23 “Then Aaron shall come into the tabernacle of meeting, shall take off the linen garments which he put on when he went into the Holy Place, and shall leave them there. 24 And he shall wash his body with water in a holy place, put on his garments, come out and offer his burnt offering and the burnt offering of the people, and make atonement for himself and for the people. 25 The FAT of the sin offering he shall burn on the altar. 26 And he who released the goat as the scapegoat shall wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward he may come into the camp. 27 The bull for the sin offering and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the Holy Place, shall be carried outside the camp. And they shall burn in the fire their skins, their flesh, and their offal. 28 Then he who burns them shall wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward he may come into the camp.

29 “This shall be a statute forever for you: In the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether a native of your own country or a stranger who dwells among you. 30 For on that day the priest shall make atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before the Lord. 31 It is a sabbath of solemn rest for you, and you shall afflict your souls. It is a statute forever. 32 And the priest, who is anointed and consecrated to minister as priest in his father’s place, shall make atonement, and put on the linen clothes, the holy garments; 33 then he shall make atonement for the Holy Sanctuary,[a] and he shall make atonement for the tabernacle of meeting and for the altar, and he shall make atonement for the priests and for all the people of the assembly. 34 This shall be an everlasting statute for you, to make atonement for the children of Israel, for all their sins, once a year.” And he did as the Lord commanded Moses.

WHY WEARING OF HOLY GARMENTS?

WHY SPRINKLING OF THE BLOOD WITH FINGERS SEVEN TIMES ?

WHY CASTING LOTS FOR THE TWO GOATS?

WHY BRINGING THE CENCER FULL OF BURNING COAL OF FIRE INTO THE VEIL ?

WHY BURNING THE FAT ON THE ALTER ?

WHY SENDING SCAPEGOAT INTO THE WILDERNESS ? etc

Do all these not look idolatry ?




If you believe that Islam is nothing but idolatry, now explain to us how Christianity conform with premises 1 and 2 in my analysis.

Enilove


God knew very well that Satan will incite some people to establish all other false religions which would cause people to DEVIATE from original Islam (believing in oneness of God and submitting to the will of God at any particular point in time). For example, Hindus believe in many gods, Buddhists believe that there is no need to believe in any God or gods. Christians believe that God is three in one or one in three. Atheists believe that there is no God. Therefore, there is need for God to correct all these false teachings invented by Satan. This is one of the reasons God sent the Holy Qur'an through His last prophet to bring the humanity back to the original track. So prophet Muhammad is not a founder of Islam but a REVIVER of Islam.

Maximus69

Honestly, the way you judge things looks very ridiculous. How many JWs and how many Muslims we have presently in the world ? You are comparing millions with billions. Again, your own version of Christianity is not older than 200 years while Islam brought by Muhammad has been in existence for more than 1400 years. Don't you know that things tend to deteriorate as time pass by ? Don't you know that it is easier for small set of people to coordinate themselves than large set of people ? How are you sure that the brotherhood you laid emphasis on has not once existed in the history of Islam ? How are you sure thathat this brotherhood you are talking about is not existing among some few group of Muslims like Tabligh brothers whose their headquarter is in Pakistan just like you have your headquarter in America ? Please which area are you living since you claimed that you have never seen Tabligh brothers who used to travel from village to village for dawah(preaching). I find it very difficult to believe that you were once a Muslim. Because every Muslim know about Tabligh brothers.


I am still waiting for the reply of your assignment

Maximus69

Before you tagged me a liar, please read the first part of the post I used to reply Enilove.

So all what you have to authenticate your version of Christianity is this;

" The true religion from God will tell you what to expect RIGHT NOW that other religionists can't see! "

So which gains do you have now that others cannot have presently ?

Well let it be known to you that benefit of praticing true Islam is not only in the hereafter. You can also enjoy it INDIVIDUALLY in this world. God says as follows:

Now surely the friends of Allah-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve. Those who believe and guarded against evil. They shall have glad tidings(i:e happiness) in this world's life and in the hereafter; there is no changing the words of Allah; that is the mighty achievement (Qur'an 10:62-64).

Whoever does good whether male or female and he is a believer, We will most certainly make him live a happy life, and We will most certainly give them their reward for the best of what they did.
(Qur'an 16:97).


I have already given you one assignment up there: You and your colleague. If you are to able to falsify my premises, I promise you one KUDOS.

Maximus69 and Enilove


Here is another logical analysis to recognized the only true faith approved by God for humanity


Premise 1: Any true faith from God designed for humanity must have been in existence from the beginning of creation of the first human being.



Premise 2: Any true faith from God designed for humanity must be within the reach of every human being irrespective of the place and time of his (her) existence.



Premise 3: Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Confucianism, Taoism, Sikhism, Jainism (etc ) GOT THEIR NAMES from the names (or locality) of their founders. Since their founders are not the first set of human being on earth, all these religions could not have been in existence from beginning. Therefore, they all FAILED to conform with Premise 1. Again, all these religions (or faiths) are not within the reach of every human being. Therefore, they also FAILED to conform with Premise 2.



Therefore, we are left with Christianity and Islam.



Before you can become a sincere Christian, you must believe in ATONING WORK OF JESUS ON THE CROSS for your salvation.
Furthermore, according to Christianity, Jesus is the ONLY TRUE WAY to reach God( John14:6). But many generations of human being have lived and died BEFORE the arrival of Jesus and BEFORE his death on the cross.
Hence, most of the PAST generations of human being are not opportuned to hear about Jesus and his atoning work on the cross; let alone believing in him as their Savior.

Therefore, Christianity also FAILED to conform with Premise 1 and Premise 2 because it was not started at the beginning and it is not within the reach of every human being.



But what about Islam ? Islam simply means "Submission to the will of God at any point in time (see Qur'an 2:112).

Those who submit in this manner are called Muslims.

If the past generations of human being;
1. Believe in the the existence of one God (which God has made known to every intelligent human being) and
2. Engage in righteous acts and forsake the sinful acts ( which God has also made known to all human being through their conscience), then they have already become Muslims (submitters to the will of God) even if they NEVER heard about any special revelation from God.


It is not written in the Qur'an that believing in Muhammad is the ONLY way as it is written in the Bible that Jesus is the ONLY way to reach God (John 14:6). So it is possible for the past generations of human being to become Muslims ( like Abraham, Moses etc) WITHOUT believing in Qur'an since it was yet to be revealed .

Believing in Qur'an is ONLY a condition for the present human beings to become Muslims since it has now been revealed.

So being a Muslim just depend on submitting to the will of God base on what God has revealed at any particular point in time.


Hence, Islam is not the religion of the Qur'an alone, nor is the name of a faith started by prophet Muhammad. Rather, ISLAM (i:e submission to God's will) is the NAME of the faith ever brought by all the true prophets of God. Therefore, Islam conform with Premise 1 and Premise 2.

This is the reason why Qur'an 3:19 declare as follows;

"Verily the only religion in the sight of God is Islam"

Do you think it is just a COINCIDENCE for Qur'an to contain this very verse while all other religious scriptures do not contain the names of their religion talk less of saying their religions are from God ?



Now state with reason which of the three premises is not true ?

Enilove

I have already determined not to have any dialogue with you. But at this point in time, I must let you know how you get it wrong.
If you have read my REPLY to the first OBJECTION in my original post, you would not have brought up your point.


It was still God that taught Adam those names just like God inspired our names in the minds of our parents or guardians

And He taught Adam all the names (of everything), then He showed them to the angels and said, "Tell Me the names of these if you are truthful." ( Qur'an 2:31)

God cannot start mentioning our names or the names of all his creatures in a divine book. It would not make sense especially when we consider the number of different languages possessed by human being This is the reason why God inspired Adam and his children on this aspect of naming.

But in case of only one faith that came from God, it makes a perfect sense for God to name his own religion by Himself in his divine book. This is because the author of anything is the right and appropriate person to give a name to that thing.

But if you think I am wrong, see below another irrefutable analysis for you and your friend.

Maximus69

But how could you have judged the truthfulness or falsehood of one faith simply by bad behavior of some of its adherents ? If I am judging
the entire Christianity base on how some pastors are impregnating their female followers, would you agree with me ?

Despite the fact that I implored you for the sake of God to pinpoint what is actually wrong with my premises, you still refuse to do so. Yet if something is false, there is no way it can agree with true premises that follow each other deductively. Can it ?

Well let me turn the table round to the only logic you believe it works. Please set it out in form of premises of argument so that everyone can see its workability.

Budaatum

Yes I am saying it NOW that non-muslims will be condemned by God and it makes a perfect sense to say so.

Maximus69

You cannot continue to be saying that a logical analysis is wrong without pointing specifically to what is actually wrong in that analysis. If something is false, there is no way it can agree with true premises that follow each other deductively.
So for the sake of God which of the three premises in my original post is not true ? Please kindly state with reason(s).

Budaatum


Yes those who failed to become Muslims(i:e submitters to the will of God) will later be condemned by God. But did I specifically say that in my original post ?
Let it be known to you that all sincere followers of Muhammad are Muslims but not all Muslims(like Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc) are followers of Muhammad.

Blackfire


I am a Muslim

Budaatum

Where did original post says God will condemn everyone except Muslims ?

Blackfire

Point of correction; we used " Subhanahu wa'taala" for God(Allah) not for Muhammad(pbuh).

Concerning your 'pure contradiction' let me assist you ;

Muhammad is not the way but Islam is the way because ISLAM ( submission to the will of God at any point in time) has been in existence BEFORE the arrival of Muhammad.

Blackfire


Read the last part of my original post. There is no contradiction in my statements

So why did you say God will condemn everyone except the Muslims if you don't know the meaning of Muslims ?

budaatum

Who are the Muslims ?

Blackfire

Muhammad is not the way. Islam is the way!

SlotA4

If the only true way to God is Jesus Christ, then what about Abraham, Moses and other Old Testament saints that have lived and died BEFORE Jesus arrival ? How did they obtain their salvation WITHOUT Jesus ? What about millions of people that do not have the opportunity of believing in Jesus ? Are we to assume that they will be automatically condemned by God ? My friend think very well !

EmperorHarry

Then what do you have to say about the two verses below ?

And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.
( Qur'an 3:85)

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me (John 14:6)

Don't you see that either of the two verses must be FALSE ?
Yet you claimed that all faiths lead to God

EmperorHarry

Even if two or more faiths CONTRADICT each other ?

EmperorHarry

Do you mean ways and faiths are the same ?

If you think this analysis is wrong, please kindly state with reason(s) which of the THREE LOGICAL PREMISES explained above is not true.