Emusan:


But there must be the FIRST COPY which is original.

You're lying

Majority of manuscripts are the same.

So why do you want me to read it, if you don't believe what was written there?

This has not proved your point that THE NEW TESTAMENT was created to make Jesus God.

Now, can we agree that The New Testament actually attested that Jesus God?
So that we move to next line.

Stop this lies.

Majority of the manuscripts we have in possession read the same and this is the reason why people can compare them to each other.

Manuscripts are the written of the olds we found and are using today.

The original writer wrote it.

Copied from the Original.

Those in possession of it during their time preserve it.

Each have the date as we know today.

Yes! They are all Christians.

Or is it Muslims who wrote them?

This is senseless question.

All manuscripts are their own original but the first WRITING where those manuscripts copy from are different.

Yes! Just like Quran too but the fact that we have different manuscripts written at different time and places shows there are not manipulated to much extended.

We're talking about the New Testament and who it was created to make Jesus God.

So, do you agree that reading the New Testament one can actually conclude that Jesus is God?

So that we move one.

You lied!

I don't need to be directed to another thread.

In Summary:

1. You can't proof that the New Testament was CREATED to make Jesus God.

2. One reading the New Testament can actually conclude that Jesus is God.

These are the two points.

LordAbove:
AbuTwins,
SIRTee just provided you with other verses of Scripture that show that Jesus is the Creator.
There are other verses too that haven’t even been mentioned.
Please do your due diligence first, before trying to refute Scripture with Scripture that only prove Scripture.

Let him who reads, understand.

Riskymarvelous:
you and yarimo with Reno omokirikiri should go sleep Abeg tell me the meaning of breweries simple!! olodo

Ken4Christ:


You asked, how can Son of God be God?

Is like asking, how can Son of man be man?

Use your common sense.

LordAbove:


Do I have to go over what I already said before?
I told you that God took on human form and called that form the Son of God. We know that as Jesus.

So prior to that, Jesus could not have been seen in the Old Testament except you mention the rare occasions he appeared to Abraham as Melchizedek. Or when he wrestled with Jacob as The Angel of the Lord, and afterwards, Jacob even said I have wrestled with “God”. Or when he appeared to Manoah as The Angel of the Lord, and Manoah said “We have seen God”.
These are all the pre-incarnate forms of Jesus before he ever took on flesh.

When he declared himself as God, I am, he said to the Pharisees;
“Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
This is the meeting of Melchizedek and Abraham as he returned from the slaughter of kings. This heavenly event recorded the first tithe, but most importantly, the first communion of our Lord and God, Jesus Christ.

The Pharisees claimed he was too young to claim he ever met Abraham, and what did Jesus answer?
He declared himself God.
“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
He used the very first name God used when he spoke to Moses on the burning bush. I AM!
That is why the Pharisees got mad and tried to stone him because they thought he was blaspheming. But he wasn’t.

About Jesus being the Creator, have you ever read John 1?
The verse 3 of it says;
“Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.”

Colossians 1:15-17 also says the same thing.
“The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

I already explained to you why he didn’t declare himself as God outrightly. It was because he had taken the form of human, therefore he had become human.
After the resurrection, he could walk through walls and even ascend. He glorified that human form he called the Son. And that is why when Thomas worshipped him saying “My Lord and my God”, he answered Thomas and said "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Jesus is the Creator. Jesus is God. Jesus is the Son of God.

SIRTee15:


Another gbagaun.
I will show U where Jesus said worship me and also where he's called creator in the new testament.

Jesus as creator of life

Colossians 1
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in Jesus all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him
and for him.

1 Corinthians 8
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Acts 3
15 You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.

Jesus demands worship.

John 5
22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honour the Father who sent him.

Abu twin has no shame. This is someone who can not defend the Qur'an but denied it. First go and read the Qur'an and answer my simple question

If Jesus is the indeed the son of Allah, should he be worshipped?

Your knowledge of the bible is zero and very embarrassing for a Muslim apologetics. U dont know the bible.
Take this as a sincere advice.

Emusan:


This why you should know that you're not making any sense.

So far, idol is attached it means it's not the same Allah.

Very simple.

I know you want it to the same Allah but it's not.

If one those you claim mistakenly enter Mosque and shout Jesus is Lord, I know it will only take the grace of God for such to come out alive

Pimine:

Well, I am a son as well. Jesus Christ brought me and countless other Christians into Sonship so we can call God Abba Father.

You guys are only "slaves" to Allah. You dare not call Allah father!

Worst part is Allah doesn't have a clear plan of salvation for you... As you need to taste hell like every other person in that false religion.

Mohamed himself didn't know what eternal fate awaited him.

For us, children of God, who call God Father, we know that as a result of our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, we are guaranteed eternal life.

Choose ye this day, my brother...

Life in Christ or certain death in Allah?

I advise you to pick life.

Azazyel:



Obi is a 100times better than Bello. If bello isn't convicted, it would be a big stain on the Tinubu led government. If you're a true supporter of Tinubu's development policies, you shouldn't be supporting Bello. That kogi state is the worst state I've been to in my life.

LordAbove:


“ It would have been better if you had done it as usual.”
I don’t comment on Nairaland that much, so I never cared to understand how the attributes work.
You may have to deal with this for now, please.

And the verses you just put down do not disprove anything I said. It is only reiterating that Jesus is indeed God.
Look at the verses you put down, and see how God says that there is no other God apart from him. But then in Hebrews 1, he calls Jesus God.
Whoa, did God just lie?
Or could it be that truly Jesus and God are one and the same?
The latter is the case, my friend, because Jesus also declared that when he said “I and my Father are one”, and “The Father is in me, and I am in the Father”.

And since you’re springing out verses from the Old Testament, why did you leave out the part where God is the Creator?
Then in the New Testament, Jesus is called the Creator.

You do not understand the doctrine of God. No one can. Know this and know peace.

Jesus is God, and the Son of God.

Pimine:

Lol. I think I like you. And it's not your fault that you were born into a false religion. I don't fault you at all.

However, there's an opportunity for redemption my brother...

Forget whatever you think you know, and whatever you think you've learned...

Jesus is The WAY to the Father.

And He died for you.

Riskymarvelous:
you are just hearing breweries,,,,can you tell us the meaning of breweries One of your useless brother they there now Reno omokirikiri dey talk trash for mouth say OBI never built a classroom building from toe to head and dey gave him 100+ evidence since then he never come outside talk again awọn eleribu eleleya radarada oshi alaini lakaye set of awọn foolishness

Emusan:


It's not the same Allah. To them Thier Allah has A SON, does Muhammad Allah has a Son? No!

To them their Allah is A Father, does Muhammad Allah a Father? No!

Just as, as a Yoruba Christian I don't call on the same ỌLỌRUN that the traditional worshippers call.

This is intellectual dishonesty to claim so.

SIRTee15:


So I should believe U instead.
Joker.....

LordAbove:


“Did God in the Old Testament did same? Why the change? Does God change?“

I do not understand this question of yours. Could you rephrase it for me?
And it’s funny you’re saying I’m translating the verses when I just said them as they were written. You’re the one who is translating and claiming they were tailor fit.
Thomas called Jesus God, and here you are saying that he meant “god”. Who is the one trying to translate it to fit our own view? It is you, my friend.
You just tried to misinterpret it to make it fit into your narrative. So do not project that onto me.

Jesus later said “Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’” John 20:17 So Jesus had a God who is your God too! God does not have God!”

“I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
[b]This is the mystery of the Godhead that I tell you we cannot possibly fathom. You cannot make it make sense, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
Yes, Jesus said “My God and your God”, but God also said the same thing about Jesus!
Hebrews 1:6-12;
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
"Let all God's angels worship him."
In speaking of the angels he says,
"He makes his angels spirits, and his servants flames of fire."
But about the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
•You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your
companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.
10 He also says,
"In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the
earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
"They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same, and your years will never end."
Did you see that?
But about the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
•You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your
companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.
He calls Jesus God. And in the latter parts of that chapter, he goes on to say that Jesus laid the foundations of the earth. Thereby, solidifying him as the Creator, God.[/b]

“Jesus said the father is greater than him!“
As I said in the first comment I made on here, God took on the form of a human and called that the Son of God.
Humans hungers, thirst, sleep, and they get tired. The Son(God in human form) was subject to all these, so that’s why he said that the Father(God in his true form) is greater than the Son.
In other words, when he said “The Father is greater than the Son”, he meant “My divine nature is greater than my human nature.”


You cannot understand God. But Jesus is God, and the Son of God.

PS: I can’t get some parts of this to highlight. I hope you don’t mind.

Qasim6:


What is it with the If?
God says he has no son, so why waste your time with the ifs?

Q 21:26
And they say: the Merciful has adopted a son; glorified is He, but they are honoured servants.

The term "son of God" is just honorific title. That's how the Jews understood it, it's the pagan Romans that took the term to another level with Jesus.

SIRTee15:


U don't answer if questions BUT YOUR QUR'AN ANSWERED THE IF QUESTION.

YOUR QUR'AN WHICH IS THE MIRACLE OF ISLAM ANSWERED THE IF QUESTION I'M LOOKING FOR

But you here saying U can't answer if question that's already answered in your Qur'an.
Are U greater than the Qur'an?
AbuTwin are U greater than Muhammed who answered the if question? Are U?

Walahi...not only are U ashamed of the Qur'an but you are embarrassed by what's written in it.

Even me I'm now ashamed for U...walahi.

Breaking news...
Abutwins denies the Qur'an: says it's wrong for Muslims to answer if questions.

Emusan:


So the person doesn't have a name.

You claimed there's no ORIGINAL!

So to you all the NEW TESTAMENT copies we have today ARE ALL FAKE, RIGHT?

So you believe what RSV wrote and don't believe their translation.

Well, this isn't where we're going.

So what makes it complicated?

Are you serious?

So you don't know we have manuscripts that dated back to the early 2nd century.

If they are copies it means there's original.

Or are they copy from empty space?

But there are manuscripts to back it up.

So, definitely it can't be manipulated without changing the manuscripts.

You don't have point here.

Pure lie.

Provide your evidence.

Your claim that New Testament was created to make Jesus God is false.

Pimine:


Who said this? Your alter ego?

MaxInDHouse:


That's the difference between Jehovah and your Allah!
JEHOVAH only asked for Canaan because He is reasonable there are other places where those people can settle and they've all known that the land of Canaan is where JEHOVAH promised Jacob's descendants so why are they dragging that portion with God's people?

Your Allah wants the whole earth yet it's using Muslims to fight so that most of them have died fighting for your Allah who supposed to use angels in fighting if truly he is the Creator of heaven and earth. Before Jehovah ordered the Israelites to start killing anyone who won't leave Canaan He has displayed His power by rescuing the Israelites from Egypt without a single fight. Your Allah did nothing other than Muslims dying each time your people goes out to fight for your Allah.

JEHOVAH is reasonable you can't compare Him with any human ruler. What miracles did Hitler performed to prove that he is Almighty God?
JEHOVAH performed a lot of signs in Egypt this is like sending a warning message to all other nations that wherever Israelites are going He is with them.
What supernatural sign did your Allah show before asking for the whole earth?

Emusan:


Story!

The fact is Arab Christians don't call on Muhammad Allah they call on The God who has a Son and Send His Son to die for mankind.

LordAbove:


You forget that the God who didn’t wait for recognition before declaring himself openly went on to take on the form of a human, and then called himself the Son of God. Why?
Because in humbling himself to take the form of a human, he could get hungry, he could get tired, he was like humans were.
So he didn’t declare himself God outrightly due to this. Instead he interchangeably declared himself to be God, and the Son of God. And that is where confusion sets in for most.

Even his disciples didn’t know this at first. Philip said to him “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us”.
What was Jesus’ response?
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’.
Jesus in this verse declared himself to be the Father who is God.

When Thomas saw Jesus after the resurrection, what did he do?
Thomas worshipped Jesus. But only God is to worshipped, so why did Jesus allow himself to be worshipped?
Thomas worshipped Jesus and called him “My Lord and my God”.

Or do we talk about Isaiah 44:6 where the Old Testament God as you put it called himself the “First and the Last”?.
Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the Lord says-Israel's King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Then in the book of Revelations, Jesus uses the same name that the God of the Old Testament uses too.
Revelations 22:13 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.“

So we see here that Jesus declares himself to be God, yet again. But Isaiah 44:6 just said there is no other God apart from the God of the Old Testament. Well, this just proves that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament that you mentioned yourself.

You see, the Godhead is a doctrine we can never understand. And if you try to define God in a way that fits your human thinking, then you would be only confining God and not believing him to be all-powerful.

God is God. Jesus is God. Jesus is the Son of God.

SIRTee15:


I've never seen an obstinate ignorant fellow like yourself. Your knowledge is wack yet U refuse to learn.

I will disgrace u with facts today U won't have the confidence to debate bible anymore.

Now on YHWH, I will show U both biblical and scholars evidence that YHWH is well known outside of Israel even b4 the later became a nation.

Biblical evidence

Egyptians (Exodus 1-15): The Egyptians are called to “know that I am YHWH” throughout the plague narrative, showing they knew of the deity.

Jethro (Exodus 18): The Midianite father-in-law of Moses knew YHWH. Jethro was a Midian priest who acknowledged the mighty of YHWH and mentioned his name multiple times on the book of exodus.

Balaam (Numbers 22-24): Balaam recognized the power of YHWH, had direct encounter with him and mentioned his name when giving his supplications.

Caleb (Num 32:12): The great hero of Judah was a Kenizzite, one of the Canaanite tribes (Gen 15:19).

Gibeonites (Joshua 9): The Canaanite town of Gibeon employed deceit against Israel, but perhaps had some measure of faith in YHWH

Jael (Judges 4-5): The killer of Sisera was a Kenite, a tribe of Canaanites who knew YHWH by name. (Gen 15:19)

Scholars evidence is highlighted below with links...

To say YHWH became known after Moses is intellectual laziness.
If anything modern scholars believed YHWH was introduced to Israel by the Canaanites and a Semitic nomad tribes called Shashu in the levant region.

People had known YHWH long before there was a nation called Israel, they just don't know him well and worshipped him in the midst of polytheism- amongst other gods.
Abraham was the first person to worship YHWH as a monotheist- post the flood era. That's why he's called father of faith.
God called him out in the midst of polytheism civilisation to start a journey of monotheism- worship ONLY YHWH.

SIRTee15:


It's obvious U are ashamed of your Qur'an.

U cannot answer a simple question. A question that is already answered in your quran.
Your Koran has the answer to my question but U are too ashamed to say it.

This shows not only are U ashamed of the Qur'an but U are embarrassed by what's written in the Qur'an.

I will report u to your colleagues... Ohyoudidn't, expanse, Qasim6, antichristian

Your friend here Abutwins is embarrassed by what's written in the Qur'an.
I have asked him a question lifted from the Qur'an but he's too ashamed of the Qur'an to answer it.

A Muslim who is ashamed of the Qur'an cannot be called Muslim. He's left Islam.

AbuTwin redeem yourself and answer my question. Look into your Qur'an and give me my answer.

If Jesus is indeed is the son of God, should he be worshipped?
If Allah has a son, should the son be worshipped?

Answer the question.

Forumites:
so owners of Heineken also gets people drunk? Ur a jargon writer.

Greattha:
Selective fight against corruption.

What about other known rogues like OUK, AUG etc?

Brendaniel:
Imagine a Tinubu supporter boldly saying he would rather have Yahaya Bello as president than to see Peter Obi as president and they want Nigerians to believe that they mean well for Nigeria by voting Buhari and Tinubu