₦airaland Forum

okeyxyz: What can I say??

More than evolved, the laws you refer to have been totally and absolutely abolished!!

A common mistake. Paul, Peter and the rest of the apostles wrote letters to fellow christians, commanding them on doctrine. Now today's christians want to impose these doctrines on non-christians.

So what you are saying is that you have your own brand of Christianity? Lol. Interesting

Greatgenius I see you

okeyxyz: Your sentiments make "perfect" sense and god is wicked!! from a secular point of view, but alas, god is not secular. He is not a "man" of the majority but chooses a minority to reveal his ways and privileges to. Yes I say it again: "HE IS MEAN!!!". But what can you do? He is god and his laws are absolute. I'm only glad that I'm one of the few who have this privilege(with it's difficulties and responsibilities) to know him. I must divorce myself of all human sentiments.

OK. Good to know. So in summary God created humans in a particular way then would punish them for being "human"? or as you put it having human sentiments. About choosing a minority. God then created the majority just to punish them? That doesn't seem too God-ey to me. It sounds more Satan-ey. When you say God is mean, God says He is Love and just and blah blah blah. So are you talking about the christian God?

okeyxyz: And when I say god is for all, it means that he chooses people regardless of race, sex, ethnicity, etc. Human laws may evolve, but god's remain constant.

No laws have evolved more than God's laws from a biblical point of view

okeyxyz: Yet his judgments are righteous in that he judges everybody according to his/her conscience . Note that conscience does not mean convenience. He would not hold an atheist to christian standards, nor a moslem, Buddhist, etc, people who preach otherwise simply do not understand god and that is majority of humanity today, yes including our mainstream churches. People who glory in numbers and crowds(like they do in our "churches" today) have absolutely no understanding of god. When churches seek to appeal to popular culture in opposition to spiritual principles, then they have absolutely no understanding of god.

That isn't the standard the bible says God judges people on. Anybody who doesn't accept Jesus and follows all God's laws and some other things are going to eternal torment. Nothing to do with conscience

OK.I'll take it BERNIMOORE has no answer to our issue 2 and wants to ignore it rather than concede the backwardness and evilness of God's commands. Well, if that's what rocks your boat then carry on.

Explain how God supporting and encouraging slave trade isn't evil and backwards. God knows its evil which is why God said Israel shouldn't take slaves from themselves. God is racist and this was one of the justification Britain used when hey attacked our ancestors and made slaves of them while subjecting them to inhumane treatment.

Kay 17: If God granted man freewill why did he thereafter create commands?

Welcome to the conversation. Doesn't seem too free-willy does it?

Traeces when I say that I'm accountable to the creator/cause of the universe I don't mean it in any moral sense. All I mean is that I'm subject to all the laws of the universe.

I don't understand your sudden digression to the devil. I could also say that there is an evil entity called ignorance who is manipulating you into thinking that you are wise and so on...

BERNIMOORE I'm still waiting for your answer to issue 2

Explain how God supporting and encouraging slave trade isn't evil and backwards. God knows its evil which is why God said Israel shouldn't take slaves from themselves. God is racist and this was one of the justification Britain used when they attacked our ancestors and made slaves of them while subjecting them to inhumane treatment.

advocate666: says it all. they can't use their own brains. They just regurgitate what they were told like programmed zombies.

I agree with you. If Christianity was indeed meant for all mankind, then all mankind would have had it from beginning rather than a conscience which is subject to the morals of the time and place. For example one's conscience wouldn't prick if it was the acceptable tradition to have sex with siblings. Also other animals like dogs, cats, lions and so on have consciences too. Is Christianity also meant for them?

^Lol. Nice

^Are you saying Christianity has never killed people in the name of spreading and defending their gospel?

traeces: @affiliated, you contradict yourself. I find you holding very strong opinions about things you do not understand. why is that?

Point out the contradictions please

ijawkid: Let us ask logicboy the shape of the earth from the pix you attached below..............

Where is he sef??.......

The earth is a circle when viewed from all corners(directions).............which makes it globular........

You guys should at lease respect the bible even if you've decided to be atheists(wanting to do what you like with the thinking that you're not accountable to the Creator of the universe)................

I'm accountable to the creator/cause of the universe. The creator/cause of the universe is not a big man like being sitting on a white chair in the sky just above the earth [Bible definition of God] What is the creator/cause of the universe then?
The shape of the earth from the pic is still spherical to advanced minds. Only children would say that is circular

traeces: I actually do not understand your last paragraph. Anyway, to convince on the bolded, you might want to investigate science from all the references available to you.
Science is beautiful but very limited.

For a long time now there has been quantum physics which isn't physical as we know it. And what exactly is spiritual? Just a reality that is beyond our natural senses. Science would still find it out just the way we made x-rays to access visions outside our natural physical senses.

About the illogical-faith thing. Santa Claus is very much as real as a big man like being sitting on a white chair in the sky just above the earth [Bible definition of God]

BERNIMOORE: good, im not trying to win argument either, but to let us fairly consider things bible says, and how credible it is or not!


it depends on what you refer to as accuraccy, we believed that we are not the only thing that God created and yet he cares to give a hint of truth and not put us in darkness as found in the bible, we as christians too make sure that we work by digging out corresponding truths to compliment,the way archeologists do! i personally dont expect everything to be perfect, but at least near-perfect!

OK. Can we move on to issue 2 now?

Explain how God supporting and encouraging slave trade isn't evil and backwards. God knows its evil which is why God said Israel shouldn't take slaves from themselves. God is racist and this was one of the justification Britain used when hey attacked our ancestors and made slaves of them while subjecting them to inhumane treatment.

Traeces. The story you put there isn't yours. Is it?
Anyway the points there are valid except " What's more, it [Science] can only investigate the natural, physical world. Nothing more! "

That's just false on all accounts. On the basis of following illogical things on the account of faith. That method would work for anything. Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, God, Allah and so on...

And from a religious point of view, God is always almost interfering with the freedom of humans to 1. make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention or 2. our voluntary choice or decision.
So I wonder on what basis religion claims that God gave us freewill.

okeyxyz: Bros., Abeg what's the difference between "freewill" and "Freedom"?

Merriam Webster dictionary.

Free will
1 : voluntary choice or decision *I do this of my own free will*
2 : freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention

Freedom [Relevant definitions picked]
1 : the quality or state of being free: as a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b : liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : INDEPENDENCE c : the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous *freedom from care*

By free will I mean that I should have been able to choose if I wanted to exist in the first place. But once I can make that choice, I already exist. Therefore I do not have free will as regards that aspect. Existence was forced on me

1. Well your post about Job not seeing gravity and concluding nothing was there is understandable so if that's the way it was I'll leave it at that.

2.

Affiliated: OK. First of all let me say that the bible wasn't wrong by claiming "He sits above the circle of the earth". If you view a sphere and refuse to take into account its volume then it would look like a circle. Just like those who don't know would say the moon or sun is a circle.
The bible didn't give the shape of the earth there but it didn't make a mistake either.

Notice I didn't say the bible was wrong. I already know that a sphere can be viewed as a circle. [Refer to image of earth below].
The bible isn't wrong in these claims but it isn't accurate either. And its even worse for a supposed perfect book

The first image is a circle. The second image is a sphere. Let's take it back to elementary education.

I hope you understand the difference now

okeyxyz: @Op

To start with: What is freedom? Maybe we should first learn to define this concept before assuming to make judgments.

Freedom is simply the capability to make a choice. It is not the capability to escape your responsibilities or consequences of your choices, which seems to be your idea of freedom and this does not exist. Your concept of freedom is simply a fantasy.

If you choose god, then it is with a eye on what you hope to benefit(and lose) by that choice. Likewise, if you choose an alternative to god, it is also with an eye on the benefits(& costs) of that choice.

The subject matter at hand is freewill and not freedom. Read the initial post again

Logicboy03: Go and look for the image of a circle.

Thank you. Maybe that's what I should have done since as these guys have no idea what a circle is no matter how much I tried to explain it to them


BERNIMOORE The fact that I can't see the gravity doesn't mean it doesn't exist. From your logic God doesn't exist because I can't see God.

Once again. There was science long before the bible or God. God came about as a result of primitive science. Long before the bible, people knew that it was water in the clouds. So what's your point?

If you are done please explain how God supporting and encouraging slave trade isn't evil and backwards. God knows its evil which is why God said Israel shouldn't take slaves from themselves. God is racist and this was one of the justification Britain used when hey attacked our ancestors and made slaves of them while subjecting them to inhumane treatment.

turnstoner: @bolded: This pettiness and jealousy......

Are'nt those well known human characteristics?

Can a truly all-knowing and all-powerful be this petty?

No, No it can't.

What's wrong with you people though. The bible did not even exist when science was born. In fact the idea of God didn't exist when Science was born. God is one of primitive science brain child. Once again, the bible did not directly say the earth is flat. The bible said the earth is a circle. All circles are flat. Therefore the bible indirectly said the earth is flat [Like a disc]

And even if the bible correctly stated that the earth is spherical, almost 2000 years before that, Someone had already stated that the earth is spherical.

Image123: you missed the definitions.

Define them please

Out of 17 translations below only one says globe. They almost all say circle. I like the international standard version though, it says disk which conveys the idea of flatness. King James is over 4 centuries old compared to your rogue translation.
I'll get to the Paul Vs. Jesus issue later today when I awake.

New International Version (©1984)
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

New Living Translation (©2007)
God sits above the circle of the earth. The people below seem like grasshoppers to him! He spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them.

English Standard Version (©2001)
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
God is enthroned above the circle of the earth; its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like thin cloth and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

International Standard Version (©2012)
He's the one who sits above the disk of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He's the one who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in,

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
God is enthroned above the earth, and those who live on it are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the sky like a canopy and spreads it out like a tent to live in.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in:

American King James Version
It is he that sits on the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in:

American Standard Version
It is he that sitteth above the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in;

Douay-Rheims Bible
It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.

Darby Bible Translation
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a gauze curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in;

English Revised Version
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Webster's Bible Translation
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

World English Bible
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in;

Young's Literal Translation
He who is sitting on the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are as grasshoppers, He who is stretching out as a thin thing the heavens, And spreadeth them as a tent to dwell in.

BERNIMOORE: see youself now, instead of admitting your error and that you are shocked that the bible actually used globe/ or sitting on the circle of the earth agaist your claim that bible says the earth is flat, a claim that many who dont read the bible will just believe, you are here talking of afraid, who is afraid between me and you now, because i will continue to supply proofs till you are done, ok? dont take genuine christians for a joke, the bible facts has won you here, it really mention 'Globe' befoer a so called science!confirmed statement of fact!

Lol. I gave you a literal word for word translation and it stated circle and not globe. Circle implies flat. I never claimed "the bible said the earth is flat" I said circle implies flat and the bible implied it by using circle rather than sphere. Why do you just want to argue blindly when you think you are losing the subject matter argument?

BERNIMOORE: that your own word, and not my consent!


jesus did not come to abolish or totally remove or outrightly opened us up into a state of no control, that is what abolish means, if you read my post again, 'why the law' it is to make 'sin' manifest, that is what constitutes sin was to be defined! colossian 2:14 below gave us an interpretation that sumarises jesus purpose on law;

colosians 2:14
"[size=14pt]having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross".[/size]


Modified based on your modified post...
you seem to be economical about truth here, but you did not deny why more than 2000 US soldiers died there and for what cause?


churches cant be left out of what? shed more light pls

OK. I see you are trying to digress. Anyway Paul and Jesus were saying totally different things. I'll be going to bed now. If you want to get back to the discussion maybe you can sleep and think over it. The 4 points of discourse that is. I'll assume the first point is over even though you didn't give any reason as to why it isn't wicked and backwards, we can continue from the second point tomorrow. Goodnight

FISAYOADEX: I am quite sure the OP would not have been so uncomfortable if the driver was to be discussing something else. But because this time the man was preaching, you think he is not obeying the traffic law. When has it become an offence to talk while driving?
You are only being embittered probably because you are not fulfilling the great commission yourself or you felt the guy was preaching about your way of life. Whichever way, I want you to know that hell is much more uncomfortable than the driver's preaching.

I wonder if you work in a bank or something. And if you preach to all your customers. How many employed or self employed people here preach to their customers? Give the lord a wiper. *Don't worry if you keep getting sacked until you die of hunger, heaven is very comfortable.

About the subject matter, if I'm in a vehicle with a friend and i see that whatever he's doing is distracting him. I ask him to stop and focus on the road. And that includes gisting. talk less of engaging in verbal battle with someone

Hahahaha. Lol at your personal text. The thing tire me sef. I was just weak and didn't know how to respond again

FXKing2012: The early Christians preached in Rome even though they knew Nimrod would kill them.
Paul said nothing could separate him from the love of Christ - not even death. And he preached till he was killed.

That is what I call real Christianity and that is the kind of Christianity I practise, not the type propagated by mr_anony and co.

Lol at the Anony shot. I admire your courage. I'll be waiting for the Boko Haram report. with God all things are possible

BERNIMOORE: see one of the oldest bible translations,
isaiah 40:22

Douay-Rheims Bible 1899
It is he that sitteth [size=14pt]upon the globe of the earth[/size], and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.

globe of the earth cant be flat!ok?

OK. If you are in doubt about translations, there's a literal word for word translation. It's called Young's literal bible. And this is how its stated literally

22 He who is sitting on the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants as grasshoppers, He who is stretching out as a thin thing the heavens, And spreadeth them as a tent to dwell in.

Anyway this circle/globe issue is beside the point. Unless you are trying to digress because you are afraid to admit you are out of points

^Valid points. So in essence, in this dispensation the law is backwards?

Jesus speaks Matthew 5:17

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Has heaven and earth disappeared?

Modified based on your modified post... Sadaam Hussein was sentenced to death by the Iraqi special tribunal. No U.S soldier was present during the execution. Also churches are the supposed body of Christ on earth. therefore their actions represent the actions of God so they can't be left out of it

FXKing2012: Everywhere and anywhere is right to preach the Word, we have a calling and we must obey.

OK. God has called you to preach to the current Boko Haram leader. please find your way there during the week if not you are a double standard hypocrite. Please come back and tell us how it went... If you can... But God will protect you so GO