₦airaland Forum

toba: I disagree. Most atheists would tell u that there's no scientific evidence for a God. arent those making the statement leaning towards science more for answers?

You rightly said most. The fact that majority follow a particular route doesn't make it the only available route.

BERNIMOORE: @Affiliated

sorry, you need to be patient with stories,as you call it...we cant just jump exegical holes of 'how' and 'what' culminate into slaving,and jumping into what you termed as encouraging it, i have just laid some foundations neccesary in that discussion so as to tackle it from the root.
ok, you dont want us to tackle it from the roots, as you can see, i tackle issues from their bases and that makes me sustain my argument!

are you saying that God should have stopped the act of slaving right from the time of isrealites?
then, you need to know that 'he allows that for reasons'.

OK. Carry on

BERNIMOORE: knowing through 'testing' and not just 'a state' and this it was started and championed by someone

im only considering an a more detailed meaning from WIKIPEDIA
(from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge" is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.


science involves testable explanations and predictions, and so,

OK. Science is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe. Agreed

To avoid confusion down the road. I'll take the liberty to drop the dictionary definition of knowledge [Merriam-Webster]

Knowledge: a (1) : the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association

toba: Why then do u still have issues with Christianity?

What issues I have with Christianity are the fact that I am on my way to eternal torture and torment because I choose not to follow it. That's not cool to put people in such bondage. If only they would leave everyone alone rather than try to convert them...

traeces: I know a few people who will literally develop headaches if they were required to provide answers for any of the following elementary science challenges.
X^3=9; solve for X
Tell the elemtary constitution of table salt.
Give an example of a mammal.
State Newton's 3rd law of motion.
But some of this people believe in Science they know nothing about other the definitions they can lift from dictionaries here and there, but in God they choose not to believe.
It beats the imagination of my small mind really.

Say what? Anyway that's besides the point. The choice to disbelieve in God has nothing to do with science. Modern science methods and religion are not the only alternatives [It didn't take me up to a minute to solve all your questions]

toba: Great. Meaning Jesus has a character that's worthy of emulation

Yes, Yes He did/does. Very different character from his supposed father

Most Christians I know in real life and see here have super massive egos. I don't know what they base their egos on. They just brag and act proud and feel better than everyone else.

I read about Jesus and Jesus was nothing like that. Christianity is now just a feel good drug. Something to indulge the ego with. This ego is the cause of all evil.

Subliminal message

1Godfather let me address free will from a religious point of view [Christian].

First of all the second definition of free will is freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention

We all know God has the habit of wildly interfering in human's choices. Such human choices are therefore determined by prior causes and divine intervention.

Examples

God hardening the heart of Pharoah so he wouldn't allow the Israelites go [Exodus 9:12]
Balaam who God wouldn't allow curse Israel [Numbers 22]

I think 2 examples are enough

The subsequent freedom of these people's choices is non existent due to divine intervention. Therefore they did not have free will

^ I don't see what all the long story has to do with the issue at hand which is slave trade.

You asked me what science was briefly and in brief. I gave you the brief meaning from a dictionary. Are you saying science isn't knowledge or the state of knowing?

Affiliated: And one of my guys in Nigeria called Ozone. He's good

Here's a verse off one of the tracks He did a few years ago called "keep on moving"

I get respect with these hit tracks
even Jimm Jatt had to do a quick scratch like he got a heat rash *
I've spit raps that make the club shake like a tic-tac *
since I was ten so call me prince of the pen
I freestyle fire , good when i'm holding a pen
took punchlines a mode higher . Now you can call me mode ten *
I've got the game open time for me to stroll in
But by now you wonder why my neck is not frost bit ? *
Well I don't bite so i don't have to floss, kid *
Call me the flavor man, who the hell is sauce kid ? *
And what's with the MC's claiming that they're weird ?
If she wants to be a man, i suggest she grew a beard

I can't remember the rest of the verse but it ended like this

The whole streets knows me, i've got no beef like a skeleton *

BERNIMOORE: im back from work now,i left few minutes after my answer to advocate666's post on so called pillars that the bible verse he quoted 'never mentioned'

Welcome back

BERNIMOORE: let me get you right pls, are you saying that God originated slave trade from the onset? pls explain in detail!

I don't know how slave trade started but it is in the records of the bible that God encouraged it and supported it thereby enabling the act of slave trading to grow

BERNIMOORE: are you also saying that God is responsible for what you termed as '' making slaves of our ancestors while subjecting them to inhumane treatment''?.

Yes, Yes I am. for the reasons I stated above and Britain being a christian nation...

BERNIMOORE: and lastly, can you briefly define what you understand as 'science' in brief?

A brief dictionary definition of science is 1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding [Merriam-Webster]

enilove: We should not allow satan to create religious war in this nation.It is knocking little by little. You cant be happy with me if I say bad things about your religion.
Likewise will I be happy with you when you say bad things about mine .That is the way it always start, as in Mali and other unsettled nation.
Face your God and others will face theirs.

Then there will be peace.

Thanks.

Agreed

LemonBoy1: well, if u dnt believe in heaven y raise it in ds debate nah? Nd i was already api dt smbdy here wil gv me a gud score on ds one

Once again I didn't raise it. Benodic did

enilove: It is evil to love violence even if you don't take part in it.

I know the whole story of Israel and the Amalekites. I was just trying to show where God commanded killings in the bible.
The part I quoted is the part I praise you for. However you can't deny that God did a lot of killing in the bible through humans for whatever reasons

^Wow. I just got refreshed

greatgenius: it is not possible for an all powerful God to set commands and not have it obeyed IF she wants it obeyed. then he ceases to be all powerful.

homesteady: I'm sure u've read in d BIBLE dat Israel is GOD's own nation....cause deir Founding fathers have dedicated this places to GOD,they promised GOD dat their children children willl serve Him!! And GOD has protected them to the fullest!!

Or did u hear dat GOD killed people in ethopia cauz dey were worshipping anoda god??...u'll only hear that GOD killed d israelites because dy were worshipping anoda god because dey were breaking the convenant their fore fathers had with GOD.

Besides,those baal prophets dat u said were wrongly killed, if not fOr GOD,will they be alive? D baal prophets were men and d pharoah of egypt ordered d killing of all male children of israelites...bt GOD delivered dem awt of egypt,therefore saving deir lifes.

If not 4 GOD,will d baal prophets be able to cross d red sea?? They would have gone back to egypt to suffer!!

If not 4 GOD 'll d baal prophets be able to survive the 40yrs in desert??

So wat naw gives dem d right to serve anoda god?? Don't even bother to say freedom of worship cauz dey were GOD followers b4 dey turned to baal prophets...so dey creid to GOD wen oda israelities were crying to GOD 4 one basic need or anoda

OK. So you've changed the claim from God doesn't do such killings to God can do such because of so and so.
Well from your logic all religious killings are justified because I could say if not for God nobody would be alive so if God asks me to kill the whole world, no qualms.

Genghis Khan who was responsible for the death of about 40 million people would say things like "I am the punishment of God. if you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you" just before He starts his killing spree.

About God not killing non Israelites. How about Sodom and Gomorrah. Nineveh. [I know God didn't kill them but He would have] and so on

^Benodic said that. I was just asking a question and stating an opinion. I personally don't believe there's a place called heaven where souls go and live in eternal paradise. It would be extremely boring.

I'll leave the issues you raised to Benodic

LemonBoy1: bros abeg, is it only on earth a soul can learn to love nd acquire spiritual maturity? What happnd in heaven? Y cnt d soul learn it in heaven? Is there no teacher in heavn? Who is d teacher on earth? What if d soul does'nt learn these tin or achieve spiritual maturity nd mayb d pesn dies untimely or evn refuses to learn at all (as par freedom)? He wil remain on earth? Religion too much oh

Are heaven and earth the only two places? Soul is from the universe[s] and will experience all the universe[s] Its the universe[s] experiencing itself
cc benodic. What do you think?

benodic: @ Affiliated



I read with a very sad heart what was written above. the way souls are being condemned to eternal torture by the same God that Christians claim loves soul so dearly and this is where we differ. ECKANKAR teaches that God loves soul dearly that it gives soul total freedom to live it life at it deems fit. soul came from heaven to earth to learn how to love and to reach spiritual maturity after which soul goes back to heaven where it came from. no one is hell bound.

God has given each soul perfect freedom of choice to choose when it wants to come back home. there is no compulsion, there is no threat and there are millions of chances and opportunities which are of course endless. soul is also very free even not to believe in the existence of God. it really does not matter to God.

I find your beliefs very interesting. I'm intrigued

homesteady: was dat d only part u read??...didn't u read verse 3??
When d Israelites left egypt,while on deir way to d promised land,the amalekites attacked dem....so...dats why dy went back to attack dem....
And besides i don't see hw dis verse relates to christains killing to spread d gospel....cauz d israelites did not force dem to Bow down before GOD or to change deir religion.....dat's more like a jihad nd GOD does not support jihad....

I could have picked any of the multiple scenarios in the bible but I picked that one because of its brutality. All God inspired killings to me are wrong Be it for revenge or evangelism or whatever. But straight to the point, When Elisha or Elijah called down fire and killed all the prophets of baal in the name of defending his gospel. Is that good enough?

jackname: But this has nothing to do with boko haram.
Boko wants to convert everyone to be like them. Everyone should bow to Allah or die. Yahweh no dey by force man to observe or worship him. A proof in the verse above.

First of all I don't classify religions killings and try to make excuses for some. Religious killing is religious killing and they are all wrong to me.
What do you mean by Yahweh no dey force man to observe or worship him? Bringing death, destruction, diseases and curses on countries that do not worship him fall under what classification?

traeces: So if for all intents and purposes, you are now an atheist, it is sad but true that you are not walking in faith as such unless you return God, am afraid you are not presently heaven bound.

Exactly. And I am therefore on my way to eternal torture and punishment. But yet

traeces: God’s Love for you respects your choice whether it agrees with his or not. His love for you is not selfless neither is it easily provoked. His love for you bears all things. What’s more, that love lasts forever.
You are the apple of God’s eye and you mean everything to him.

This just doesn't add up

^Thank you

1Godfather: 1) Once again, the Christian concept of hell is that it is some place of eternal separation from God's loving and warm presence, reserved for those who have voluntarily rejected God.

God does not delight in the death or loss of anyone - he is not a sadistic entity that has created a torture chamber for people.

The Christian concept of Hell is not only a place of separation it is a torture chamber for people. I don't know which concept of Hell you talk of but I'll be quoting the bible's description of hell in my next post

1Godfather: 2) You may need to reconsider what you are saying. There is NO SENSIBLE way of saying that you could be presented a CHOICE as to whether you should be born or not.

Freewill, or at least the principle which we are considering, operates only when we are appropriately in the domain of existing, sentient and rational creatures.

Once again you are making my point for me. In the christian idea people like me shall be subjected to eternal torture. It definitely isn't my physical body that would experience this torture, it is my Soul or Spirit [Anyone]
My Soul or Spirit is supposedly eternal.
So once again, what I'm saying is 1. There is NO SENSIBLE way of saying that you could be presented a CHOICE as to whether you should be born or not 2. I did not have free will in that matter 3. I do not have total and complete free will

Traeces let me ask you a question. I once accepted Jesus Christ into my life and so on but now for all intents and purposes as far as Christianity is concerned, I am an atheist.
Am I still going to heaven?

^^Haha. you're joking right? God's love is not easily provoked, is everlasting and eternal and so on while quoting bible verses. Lol. Nice post anyway

enilove: Tell me where you have seen such.You can state where it is in the bible.
I dont pray for evil to happen to any of your loved ones, are you in support of violence of religious war? Because I cant see the point you are making.

If know of any christisn group like Boka Haram ,post it and make direct reference of where christians are killing in the bible.

Thank you for your prayer and I pray the same for you. I am not in support of violence or religious wars. i am not in support of the evils done in the name of religion either.

As regards your request 1 Samuel 15:3 When God was supposedly speaking to Saul. Just the way God is supposedly speaking to Boko Haram and so on

3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’

OK. to 1Godfather. I am the original poster and I'll try to briefly address all the issues you raised.

1. All of the religions believe in God[s] as religion is the service of God[s] and even the religions that believe in many Gods all have a head God. Now many religions have the concept of this punishment by the Head God. I think my bad was saying God rather than God[s]

2. On Christianity God is believed to have created everything that exist including all possibilities. Therefore sending people to Hell and people choosing Hell are two different things. You paint the picture of people choosing Hell as if God had no hand in it and can't do anything about it when He was the one that set the system up. Based on Christian logic, it is God's wish for many souls to be separated from Him and that's why He structured the system so

3.

1Godfather: Pray tell, how can you be given a choice as to whether you would be born or not? To whom would this choice be presented to? Isn't it even clear to all and sundry that for any choice to be presented to you in a matter, YOU must at least first of all be here for the choice to be given to you?

Exactly. That's why I said its a paradox as one cannot have free will in that regards. You later go on to say that man has total and complete free will but I'm saying that's not the case since man didn't have free will from beginning [The choice to exist or not] So it is impossible for man to have total and complete free will.

Finally.
Paradox: An argument that apparently derives self-contradictory conclusions by valid deduction from acceptable premises

Free will: 1 : voluntary choice or decision *I do this of my own free will*
2 : freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention

Merriam Webster dictionary

Omerian Consult: There are so many fake men of God on the prowl but they can only fake it for so long before they are caught.

Even Albert Einstein, the greatest scientist of all time believed in God! Science should actually make u believe in God n not otherwise. Do u believe that satan exists?

Who gave Mr. Einstein the title of the greatest scientist of all time? And Albert Einstein was an atheist and a skeptic. *One of the lies I was talking about

*Grabbing popcorn and drink*

enilove: I have never seen any nor heard of such .Especialy at the levil of the likes of Boko Haram ,Jambs etc

But i have. And such records are even in the bible.

In no particular order

Lupe Fiasco

Rakim

Masta Ace

Nas

Eminem [At a certain period 1995 - 2004]

Soulja boy Just kidding before Seun comes and ban me from Nairaland forever

2Pac

Immortal Technique

Mode Nine

Big L

Jay-Z [Sometimes]

KRS-1

Ice Cube

Obie Trice [Sometimes]

Twista [Sometimes]

And one of my guys in Nigeria called Ozone. He's good

OK. Everyone should pause and take a moment to visit 1Godfather's website http://www.gfpanorama.com/

Its absolutely fascinating