₦airaland Forum

“In the beginning, God became the Heaven and the Earth... And God said, 'Let Me be light," and He was light.” - Kurt Vonnegut

“. . . but the Universe is an awfully big place. There is room enough for an awful lot of people to be right about things and still not agree.” - Kurt Vonnegut

There's another long quote from the same author which I think is so profound as to deserve its own thread. Its too long to put here anyway

https://www.nairaland.com/1150973/good-summary-history-beginning

Reyginus: Don't you think something is wrong with the way you argue?

To me, The point of this conversation isn't to argue. Its not like I'm trying to win or anything. I just want to exchange ideas and if my idea has been considered and rejected then that's fine by me. All along I've been trying to make the idea I was passing along clearer. I've also considered the alternative which is God being a man like being sitting on a white chair in the sky like the bible said and I like wise rejected it.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, My guy, why are you trying to stir up a conversation that has died.

it is like arguing with somebody who says that 2+2=5 and when you correct him, and show him that 2+2=4 he replies that 4=5 and that another name for "4" is "5".
What more do you want to tell him?

He says that God=everything and everything=God. He has insisted that another name for "God" is "everything". There is nothing left to argue about.[/quote]I never insisted that another name for God is everything. I told you God is everything and then you said God is a synonym for everything and I said if you want to see it that way, I can't argue with you. Why lie against me?
My point is God is Everything not God is another name for everything. If however you decide to call them synonyms I won't argue with you. When did I start insisting that they are synonyms?
OK. God isn't everything. Tell me what God is and where God can be found please.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]We have nothing more to argue about.[/quote]OK Sir. Safe

wellsaid: Can u swap it with my samsung galaxy ace duos? 23383C18 or call 08134723890

Can you please give me details of the phone like I did with mine?

Mr_Anony I would have replied but Greatgenius has already said all I would have said so no need to reply that. About your phrase that "God is a synonym for everything". If you choose to view it that way I can't argue with you on that because in a sense you are correct and they are the same thing.

Truthislight. I know its easy to sit on the sidelines comfortably inside your mental box and question and talk and so on. I have no problem if that's what you really want to do. but to answer your questions, I'm afraid I would have to use questions too. My questions are however answers of some sort.

I'm going to assume by mind and intelligence, you mean consciousness.
Energy is conscious. We as energy are conscious.

How did we start having a consciousness?
When do we start having a consciousness?
Finally, what are we really and what is this consciousness that we possess?

By the way I follow the scientific community closely and many experiments are pointing to the fact that without a brain, many organisms possess intelligence. [A microscopic slime was just discovered to possess intelligence. This slime has no organs or brain however scientists put it in a maze with its food at the end of the maze and the slime learned the way to the food and followed that path consistently. When scientists put it in a new different maze, it took the slime 10 times longer than before to find the food and after a while it also learned the new maze and started going directly to the food] Also things like light are baffling scientists because it behaves as if it possesses a consciousness. Lets leave personal experiences out of this but I have also had some personal experiences that changed my paradigm to support my claims.
How about you? have you had any personal experiences or are you just a tool to someone else?

That song "Its OK" is on His very first album called "Infinite" released 1995. So If you are going to base his new found Christianity on a song that's 18 years old, what kind of journalism is that?

kabasa77: can it go 4 25k?

No it can't. Thanks for the offer though 30K is pretty low already

I have a black torch 3 which I bought on the 18th of September 2012.
I have used the phone in a rubber casing for the whole period I have owned it and the phone is still very clean.
I bought the phone UK used for 40,000 and I still have the receipt.
The phone has no problems or faults whatsoever.
Now I am willing to give it away for 30,000 because I want to change phones.

If you are interested, reply

[quote author=Mr_Anony]God by nature is not a physical entity yet physical entities were made by him in the same way I see nothing amiss with a physical entity creating a non-physical entity as in the case of you and your story.[/quote]Well I believe God to be the smallest indivisible thing from which all things are made up of. Both physical and non physical. To the best of my knowledge for now I'll call God energy. If I or any other thing is broken down to its most basic subatomic particle It'll also be energy [String theory]. Following that logic, Everything is made from and of God and God is everything
I refuse to believe in a God that is smaller than everything. That being isn't infinite and can't be God

truthislight: noted.

I was just being curious.


3. And one last question. Is the life form of humans or animals the only life form that exist in the WHOLE COSMOS?

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another." (1 Corinthians 15:40).

^^^ there are spiritual bodies and there are physical bodies.

^^^ That is what the bible says, and it profit me not to go beyond that.
Peace.

OK. I can respect that

[quote author=Mr_Anony]I am afraid you are wrong here: Creating something out of yourself does not mean that that thing is you. For instance when you imagine a story and tell it, the story emanated from you but the story is distinct from you even though it came from you. The story is not you and you are not the story. God is distinct from His creation.[/quote]Using story is a bad analogy because stories don't have physical properties. If for instance I cut off my arm and gave it a part of my consciousness or mind isn't that arm still me?

lagerwhenindoubt: I am amazed u remembered.. a lot of people are either too happy they made it into the new year to think much of anything else or too drunk to remember..

I'm thoughtful like that. Its a soul thing

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, I believe you mean to say that "everywhere=nowhere in particular"



You are making another bad jump again......God is everywhere is not the same as God is everything. Don't try to equate the two to each other.[/quote]1. Yes thank you for the correction.
2. I know everywhere is not the same as everything and that's why i put both everywhere and everything. I believe God is both everywhere and everything. It only makes sense that way.

To expatiate on the above, If there was only God at the beginning of time and nothing else, with what materials did God use to create everything that exists? The only possibility is that God created everything with Itself ergo everything is God.

^^^ Funny as hell

truthislight: now, it is God that sustain the man by its power, yes.

But the current is produce from the genset/turbine.

Just as the spirit is sent from the father.

The current is not the turbine.

The spirit is not God.

When Nepa takes its light the bulb, fan, tv etc that the current from the gen powered will not travelled back to the substation, it simply disconnects and the appliances goes down or dies out.



but the spirit of God is not God.

Unless you want to use the handle of the trinity that does not work here since that will make the current = the generator.

But we know it is the father that sends the spirit.

Please, dont call the father the generator o! Lol.

Just kidding.

OK.I see your point of view now. I thought you believed in the trinity doctrine that states that God, The Spirit and The Son are the same thing "God"

truthislight: how?

When i said the light from the bulb i am refering to the illuminating from the bulb that is a product of the bulb and the current and when there is no curt the illuminations simply died out.

OK. You claim that the current is the spirit from God and that is what powers the bulb and enables it to be alive. So isn't the actions of the bulb when producing light just the current animating the glass filament?
Just like the spirit of God animating man?

Truthislight your analogy left me more confused than before. It seems from your analogy, you agree with Greatgenius but you are however afraid to admit it outrightly

^^^ Nice

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, all you have succeeded in doing was an exercise in semantics. You agree that it is illogical to ask where in particular and yet you want to magically turn it into nowhere. (I hope not)
Anyway I'll grant you your 'victory' but just realize that "everywhere is nowhere in particular" is at best a manner of speech and is not in anyway similar in meaning to "everywhere = nowhere"[/quote]*Dancing Azonto because I've been granted victory*

Lol. Just kidding I wasn't looking for victory. I was just trying to pass a point across. Anyway somewhere along the argument it got mixed up and changed from "everywhere = nowhere in particular" to "everywhere = nowhere".
The initial point which I supported was
1. Everything = Nowhere in particular.
2. There's really no such thing as nowhere. God is all there is and there is nothing outside of God. Where we would classify as nowhere still has God in it and therefore has a location even if its one we can't classify or understand.
God is infinite and all there is or all there is possible of being.
So God is "everywhere or everything" and "nowhere in particular or nothing in particular". That's because you can't classify God as something. That's the beginning of error

greatgenius: yea i have read some of it a while back. it dates backs to the atlantean period i believe..

Yea. it absolutely fascinates me. Maybe I'll send you a mail later and we can talk about it

obadiah777: THE BOLDED IS THE SMARTEST THING YOU HAVE SAID ALL DAY

I CAN TELL YOU EVERYTHING ABOUT HOW THE BIBLE WAS PUT DOWN AND ITS JOURNEY ALL OVER THE WORLD INCLUDING HOW IT GOT REVISED AND BASTARDIZED AND THEN BROUGHT TO AFRICA ETC ETC ETC. YES I BELIEVE AND ACCEPT THE APOCRYPHA BOOKS. A PERSONAL FAVORITE OF MINE IS SIRACH, ESDRAS AND MACCABEES. AND THEY DID GET COMPILED. THEY ARE PART OF THE 1611 KJV. HOWEVER THEY GOT REMOVED IN THE 1800s BY THE BIBLE DESTRUCTION GROUP

OK. I'm sure you must have done a lot of research and thinking to attain such a paradigm. I have no problems with your claims anyway, I think at the most basic fundamental level we mean the same thing.
We are all learning so continue on your path.
The soul people can take over once more.

obadiah777: YOU DO ERR. THE HOLY CONSTITUTION WAS PUT DOWN BY GOD THROUGH MEN. SEE THESE SET OF MEN CALLED THE ELECT, WHO PUT THE HOLY CONSTITUTION DOWN IN PRINT AS REFERENCED IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION CHAPTER 10, THESE MEN ARE THE FIRST FRUITS. THEY ARE SEALED MEN OF GOD AND THEIR SPIRITS HAS BEEN DONE TO WHERE IT IS PERMANENTLY RESIDENT IN HEAVEN. THESE ARE HEAVENLY MEN, IF YOU WILL. THEY ARE THE FIRST FRUITS OF THE LORD. THEY ARE HIS NOW. HOWEVER THE MEN WHO CAME UP WITH RELIGION ? THESE ARE MEN WHOSE SPIRIT STILL RESIDES IN THE WORLD. THEY ARE CARNAL MEN. THEY ARE MEN WHO ARE DRIVEN BY LUSTS, COVETOUSNESS AND POWER. THATS WHY THEY TOOK THE HOLY CONSTITUTIION AND THEN USED IT TO CREATE A SYSTEM OF CONTROL AND EXTORTION OVER THE PEOPLE

If I understand you correctly, God doesn't want religion for man?

On another note, do you know how this modern bible you claim was put down by God came about?
Also do you read, believe or accept the apocrypha [Books that didn't get compiled in the bible]

greatgenius: lol lets see how this ends..two gods playing

Great fun... great fun
Greatgenius By the way, have you read or heard about the emerald tablets of Thoth? If you have, what are your thoughts concerning it.

obadiah777: YOU DO ERR NOT KNOWING SCRIPTURES. THE BIBLE IS A HOLY CONSTITUTION NOT A RELGION. SATANIC PEOPLE MADE IT A RELIGION SO AS TO CONTROL PEOPLE AND DOMINATE THEM AND FOR MONETARY GAINS AND POWER AND SUBJECTION.

THIS IS THE RELIGION THAT GOD ENDORSES JAMES 1 VS 27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. <<< THIS IS WHAT GOD COUNTS AS RELIGION. ALL THAT OTHER STUFF YALL DO WITH THE ORGANIZED RELIGION ? THATS A BABY OF THE FOURTH BEAST IN THE BOOK OF DANIEL AND THE BEAST IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION THE 13TH. THE ROMAN EMPIRE THAT IS

This holy constitution was it man made or did God write it with his hand?
I know you will say it was inspired by the Holy Spirit and if you say that then I'll claim the religion was also inspired by the Holy Spirit including all the evils perpetrated in the name of God by all religions.
Its better for you to even believe the emerald tablet of Thoth to be the work of God

obadiah777: MY EXPLANATION IS INCONSISTENT WITH THE RELIGION OF CHRISTIANITY BECAUSE CHRISTIANITY THE RELIGION IS MAN MADE.

2-YES ALL HUMAN BEINGS HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BE SATAN

3-ALL OTHER PERSONIFICATIONS OF SATAN IN THE BIBLE FOR EXAMPLE THE RED DRAGON IS THE GRECO-ROMAN EMPIRE. THEY ARE EMPIRES OR PEOPLE

4-JOHN 8 VS 44 IS REFERING TO CAIN WHO WAS A MURDERER AND LIAR FROM THE BEGINNING. DEVIL SIMPLY MEANS 'LIAR'.

5-THE DEVIL AND DRAGON IN REVELATION 20 IS THE ROMAN EMPIRE

OK. Then don't argue from the bible at all if you are going to base your excuses on the fact that religion is man made. Because the bible was not only man made, it was politician compiled. There's no such thing as a separate personality called Satan or God. Its all BS. There's only consciousness

Greatgenius the thread would go back to souls soon enough as soon as Obadiah777 admits he's ignorant about that aspect of the bible and his nutritious food of life isn't so healthy to the brain.
And what's with the typing in all caps? Is that a plea for attention or a desperate attempt to differentiate yourself?
We can read well enough in small letters

obadiah777: YOU DO KNOW THAT WHEN IT SAYS 'SATAN STOOD UP AGAINST ISRAEL' WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT AN EVIL PERSON STOOD UP AGAINST ISRAEL. YOU KNOW THAT RIGHT ? ANY KIND OF ADVERSARY TO GOD IS SATAN. ANYBODY CAN BE SATAN.

MATTHEW 16 VS 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. <<< EVEN PETER CAN BE SATAN

ECCLESIASTICUS 21 VS 27 When the ungodly curseth Satan, he curseth his own soul <<< THE ACTIVE SPIRIT IN EVERY UNGODLY PERSON IS SATAN. SO SATAN IS ANYONE WHO IS BEING WICKED AND EVIL. NOT A PARTICULAR MAN CALLED SATAN. SO SATAN IS LIKE A TITLE FOR ANY WICKED PERSON. HITLER IS SATAN. BOKO HARAM IS SATAN ETC ETC

Your explanation is somewhat inconsistent with what majority of Christianity claims. "The claim is that the personality of Satan is acting through people or using them" But I'll accept your explanation.
The next issue is that I want some terms properly defined.
Who is an ungodly person if there's no alternative for God for the ungodly person to accept?
Who is a wicked person once again?
From your explanation all human beings are satan or have the potential to be satan.
Other than the term Satan, all the other personifications of evil in the bible, are they also human beings? The serpent? The great dragon? The devil?

According to the bible, the satan and the devil are the same personality and separate from humans.

1.
John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

2.
Revelation 20
1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


Jesus clearly states that Just the way He is the Son of God, evil people are Sons of Satan.

obadiah777: AND WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT TELL YOU THAT THERE IS SOMEONE CALLED SATAN ? CAN YOU SHOW ME THAT VERSE IN THE BIBLE ? I NEED TO SEE IT. YALL BRINGING IN HERESIES

1 Chronicles 21:1

New International Version (©1984)
Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Satan rose up against Israel and caused David to take a census of the people of Israel.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Then Satan stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Satan stood up against Israel and incited David to count the people of Israel.

International Standard Version (©2012)
Then Satan attacked Israel by inciting David to enumerate a census of Israel.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Satan attempted to attack Israel by provoking David to count the Israelites.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And Satan stood up against Israel, and incited David to number Israel.

American King James Version
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

American Standard Version
And Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And Satan rose up against Israel: and moved David to number Israel.

Darby Bible Translation
And Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.

English Revised Version
And Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.

Webster's Bible Translation
And Satan stood up against Israel, and incited David to number Israel.

World English Bible
Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.

obadiah777: WELL YOU BOTH DO ERR. JUST BECAUSE THERE ARE DIFFERENT MANIFESTATIONS OF THE GODLINESS OR WICKEDNESS OF A SPIRIT DOES NOT MEAN IT IS STILL NOT THE SAME SPIRIT. THE SPIRIT IN A SATANIC PERSON IS THE SAME SPIRIT IN A GODLY PERSON. ITS JUST THAT THE SATANIC PERSON CHOOSES TO USE THE SATANIC SIDE OF THEIR SPIRIT. WHAT TRUTHISLIGHT IS TRYING TO SAY IS THAT THE SPIRIT IN A WICKED PERSON IS DIFFERENT FROM THE SPIRIT IN GODLY PEOPLE. THATS WRONG. ALL SPIRIT IS BUILT THE SAME. ITS JUST THE CHOICE AND FREEWILL OF THE PERSON TO DECIDE WHICH PART OF THEIR SPIRIT THEY WANT TO SHOWCASE. THIS IS CALLED FREEWILL

Are God and Satan the same being? But people call one side of God "Satan" or people call one side of Satan "God"?

truthislight: words!

And words can talk.

Talk is cheap.

Talk is free.

Why not Mould an energy/material and pump oxygen into it and let it come to be "a living man"?

Afteral, man is made up of material/energy, that should be easy for you. No?

(Btwn, are you the same person as atheist D?)

1. I've done that already. With myself.
2. I'm not the same person as Atheist-D
3. And one last question. Is the life form of humans or animals the only life form that exist in the WHOLE COSMOS?

truthislight: add not just conscious but also intelligent.

Since it is alive.
Lol

What you don't realise is that you are also energy