₦airaland Forum

CapitalCee:
Honestly i dont kniw which game people have been watching. Rice has stood strong in that Midfield position.

Mount and Walker are struggling

Mount especially is struggling. This 3-4-3 bus no favour am. Saka would have been a better choice.

Kilishihunter:
No problem, but you and I know individually Pele holds few candles to Messi minus the ballon d ors, 2 more goals and he'll overtake him as south America's highest goal scorer though Pele has a better goal to game ratio and Neymar might still top both of them

It is not only about the goals but when and where you scored them.

For instance you can compare their goal scoring record at World Cups and Copas.

96forever:
Brazil have always been about the World Cup.. that’s why they never really rated Ronaldinho in that Brazilian team despite winning the Copa America for them.

They were expecting him to bring the World Cup like R9 and Pèlé did, but he disappointed in 2006 .

Yeah they never really rated it. Pele played for over a decade for Brazil and went to only one Copa i believe.

Kilishihunter:
But I didn't state his left foot was the stronger na, Only said he had a great left foot Btw rivellino didn't even play in 1958 and 62 na, Well It's only a few clips and info I have on garrincha so I'll leave it at that

Garrincha did not have a great left foot. It is known.

Brazilian. Left foot. Curve..................equals Rivelino till the end of time.

randomperson:
Lol.

The comment was not even directed at you.

But it's true... if ten years from now, someone tells mbappe is greater than Ronaldo, you will probably not agree because of all the great moments Ronaldo gave you as his fan. That's how nostalgia works...

The difference is that there are very few people who are alive now who watched Pele while all the footballing world have seen Messi, meaning the Nostalgia vs Recency bias battle is skewed in Messi's favour.

It also helps that Messi gets to play the Copa CaraboAmerica every year, getting many extra bites at the international trophy cherry.

96forever:
As in.... them no the rest, they even invited Japan in one of them to make up the numbers lololololololololololol

There was a time Brazil sent a state team to Copa America.

Brazil no send that tournament for years.

Kilishihunter:
Well you may be right doc but on FIFA TV, when they were talking of his story before the sad end to his playing days, loose lifestyle and depression, Im damn sure I saw garrincha scoring with his left in that mini documentary

I have seen Messi score with his right foot. I have seen Robben score with his right foot. i have seen Rooney score with his left foot. Doesn't mean they were masters with that foot.

The Brazilian legend with a powerful left foot and curve mastery was Roberto Rivelino. And he was also the master of the elastico dribble.


Like i said you are mixing up your legends. In this case combining Garrincha's life with Rivelino's technique.

If you are mixing up Roberto Rivelino and Mane Garrincha you need to sit out any debate about Pele.

With all due respect.

Kilishihunter:
Well from what I watched on videos and read about him, didn't he score goals or dribble with his leg foot, was he not a Master at curving the ball, I didn't even say it was his stronger foot, this one you'll want to kill me,

That was Rivelino. You need to go back and do more research........you are mixing up your legends.

randomperson:
Lol... it was not a mistake

And the point still stands...

Pele wey be say if anybody breaks any of his scoring records, na when he go remember say he score another 1000 goals against his nephew in one match like that.

He knows that his legacy has been overtaken by Messi and even Ronaldo

That is understandable. He played so long ago it is a miracle people are even still considering him. Indomie and twitter generation believe the world started with them. Nobody mentions Cryuff, Di Stefano, Puskas e.t.c anymore.

Di Stefano that won 5 straight UCL/European Cups scoring in all finals but gets overlooked in conversations.

The same craze that was making people rate VVD as one of the greatest defenders ever. Recency bias in the age of tiktok, slay queens and kings is a dangerous thing.

The old man is trying to make sure people don't forget him, and that is a very human thing to do. But like i keep saying, that you didn't see it does not mean it never happened.

96forever:
na this people the argue Pèlè greatness lololololololololololol how can’t you know the strong foot of Garrincha that guy is the skillful Antonio Valencia na

True talk.

Kilishihunter:
Ah garrincha with the vicious left foot, one of the greatest dribblers and R2 specialists of all time

You shouldn't have posted this and exposed your ignorance. I say this with all love.

randomperson:
Abeg, you know what I mean. He didnt play any major role.

He got injured two games in and Garrincha led them to the title.

Brazil won 3 world cups in 4 attempts. That's how strong that team was

Thank God you accepted your mistake humbly

I was going to ask you how he scored a goal in the group stages in a tournament he didn't play in. Maybe he spoke it into existence like Pastor Adeboye.

randomperson:
This is why it's a logical fallacy to use trophies as the major determinant in discussing a player's greatness.

Pele won three world cups and he didn't even play in one of them, which shows that the Brazil team was so good in a time when international football was not that competitive.

At the period Pele played, the quality of football was not that great so standing out was not as difficult as it is now.

Thank God we have clips of both Messi and Pele and even people who were alive during Pele's time still say Messi is better.

No player has combined scoring, dribbling and passing to such a high level as Messi... that's why he's the GOAT.

Name the World Cup Pele won that he did not play in. I want this to be a cautionary tale to younglings to stop making careless statements.

If they played the World Cup every year like the Copa CarabaoAmerica Pele would have 10 Word Cup titles.

Top competition in Pele's time was the World Cup. 3 wins in 4 attempts. 75% success rate. Transforming a country that had NEVER won into a juggernaut.

Messi. Playing the Copa CaraboAmerica practically every year. 1 win in 2,894.5 attempts. Transforming a country that was perennial champion into strugglers praying for an ogiri gbamila victory.

PELE..............The G.O.A.T!

Oasis007:



Doc...... are you really a Messi Fan?!


Cc Afrodoc2

I am a fan of all them. You will hardly see me slandering any of the G.O.A.T candidates. I really like CR7 as a United great but i think Messi is the better player but the difference is that CR7 got to his level with stronger mentality which means on most occasions he is more likely than Messi to deliver when the going gets tough.

If you call Messi the G.OU.T ahead of CR7 i can't argue that but a CR7 fan says the same about CR7 i can't really argue either. I draw the line at G.O.A.T because i see people trying to sideline O Rei as the generation that watched him play starts to die off. Luckily we have historians of the game like yours truly to remind people that O Rei did live and perform miracles in his time.

96forever:
I’m not trolling, he’s “your GOAT” not “The GOAT”

The UCL that you’re hyping upadan Ororo still bests him.

As a Messi fan even i have to confess that you do make a fair point there.

TheLequte:
Ronaldo over Messi. Messi doesn’t make the difference in a team like Ronaldo does, especially when the going gets tough.

Dude participated in how many COPA finals before he could win it?

Let me put this to you: if the COPA were a four year tourney like other respectable National tourneys, the midget will still be searching.

As a Messi fan even i have to confess you do make a fair point there.

Oasis007:


I don comot hand for GOAT matter. Truthfully, though YouTube Clips can be misleading, Pele was apparently a great Footballer.

Most people who watched Pele say the Youtube clips don't do him justice. Imagine if the only clips of Messi that are available in 50 years time are only games he played for Argentina, games he played in his 30s, and a few league clips from between ages 17 and 30.
Imagine if almost all Messi's Barca clips from 2004 to 2017 were wiped out.

That is what we have with Pele.

patrickmuf:
The world cup is rated for the emotions it generates amongst fans but the UCL is the standard right now and Messi has won more than a fair share...

Watching that clip, the defending back then was comical, Pele was a good dribble but Messi is better.

If we are to rate them based on goal scoring, dribbling and play making, I think the score will be 2 vs 1 in favor of Messi...

The pace of the game then was really slow sha.

The World Cup is the ultimate. You can't use an annual competition like UCL which gives Messi an unfair advantage. You are in effect giving Messi 4 opportunities to shine for each opportunity Pele got.

If we are to dive deep into Messi's UCL stats and we find out that he scored a huge chunk of his goals in the group stages whereby CR7 scored a huge chunk in the knockout stages you might cool down on touting this UCL achievement.

Pele didn't play UCL. The top competition they both played in which was the World Cup Pele still holds the record for most assists and most titles.

Oasis007:


Doc..... why?!

I conceded that Messi is a GOUT nah.

patrickmuf:
Is the world cup really the highest level of football right now? I think not...However, it was in Pele's time.

Whilst Pele is arguably a slightly better scorer, Messi beats him in dribbling and play making in general...

Talking about the pitch, we can also agree that the standard of football and quality of players have improved overtime thanks to the role of science in sports...Whilst we may not be able to say how will perform had they been born in either generation, one thing is certain, we can at least assess their overall game play in their respective eras. Pele in his time was a fantastic goal scorer with good dribbling skills and good playmaking added to it...

Messi as we have seen over the years is fantastic at all he does and I think that's where he edges it.

Pele was fantastic at all he did too and he maintained it at the World Cup on multiple occasions. Something Messi has not done.

You can't be on a similar level with someone and that person has 3 World Cup victories to your ZERO and you claim you are greater. E no enter.

If we are comparing Messi to Totti or another obviously inferior player it would be different but we are comparing him to players on his general level. It can't be 3-0 at World Cup and you are claiming greater.

Oasis007:
Messi is better than CR7...... that's a Fact. I didn't watch Pele, Maradona and Co but I watched R9, Zizou and Co.

To me, Messi duly deserves GOAT Recognition. I never admitted it until he won Copa. World Cup or no World Cup, he's a fuckin GOAT.

He might be a GOUT (Greatest of ur time) but the GOAT is Pele.


Watch him nutmeg, dribble, and lob people for fun. That you didn't see something happen does not mean it never happened.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioA0DwrriWM

patrickmuf:
For me, Messi is the G.O.A.T. He combines perfectly the qualities of all the other contenders for the G.O.A.T. crown and isn't lacking in any...He can score as well and as much as Pele and CR7, he dribbles with pace and mastery of the ball so much so if not better than Maradona, Garrincha and R9, he is as good a player maker like any other in history...

His vision and technical ability is right up there...It goes way beyond winning the world cup which can be influenced by many variables. For instance, this Argentine team is not the most talented in recent times but there are the once to deliver on the big stage. In Scaloni, they found a pragmatist whose style of play is in sync with the players at his disposal, they can play when they want, they can roughen things up if it demands...

I think away from trophies, a players ability to play football at a level that is unmatched should be the determining factor when discussing who is the greatest...And for me, I haven't seen anyone who is as complete a footballer as Messi, he dribbles, scores and creates chances like no other in the history of the beautiful game. If you think otherwise, I'll wait for you to point at someone who did it better...

Pele was a slightly better scorer (especially at the highest levels), Messi was a slightly better dribbler (especially with the smooth pitches we have these days), Pele was far better at the highest level of football (the World Cup) and he scored more, assisted more and won more than Messi at this highest level of football.

Pele is the G.O.A.T


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwmrwHwxiKc

Let Messi try to dribble people on such terrible surfaces.

R.I.P Sound Sultan.

In any fair and balanced debate Pele is the G.O.A.T

He dominated at all levels and his combination of stats, achievements and eye test is unmatched.

Both are great. They are both all time greats that inspired each other to superhuman levels of greatness. We have been blessed these past 15 years.

Roland17:
Hopefully McGregor can give us a break with the noise after another disaster! No excuses… His leg buckled because of those ferocious kicks from Poirier, more importantly, Poirier controlled the fight throughout, especially when they went to the ground which was a bad decision by Connor..

Like the Marvellous one said it is hard to get up at 5am for roadwork if you have been sleeping in silk pyjamas.

McGregor has been done as a serious fighter ever since the Mayweather windfall. With his investments now vomiting money like human sacrifice no way will he get back to the top.

Roland17:
I disagree! You can argue that he has discipline issues, can be erratic and disruptive but no be say he no sabi ball or na only to cut inside. His left foot is his dominant foot but he has scored some impressive goals that are not just cut back and shoot.

GabiGol na otu.

The first time I watched them was at the Olympics when we were linked to him while City was linked to Gabriel Jesus.

Within the first 1-2 games I confirmed that our scouting department was led by blind men. Like has been said he is just Andros Townsend (without peak Townsend’s speed).

TheLequte:
He was hauled off at half time. That guy na otu

You say what?

Frederalists won’t like that o.

patrickmuf:
As you suggested last time out, Brighton will be a good destination or Norwich to form a partnership with Gilmour...

As for Elanga, I hope all that body building won't slow him down.

Fair point. However gym work if done smartly could be advantageous. A lightweight like Chong could have benefitted from gym work early on.
He can get stronger without getting slower but a slightly slower but stronger Elanga is not necessarily a bad thing either.