₦airaland Forum

Demdem:
there is nothing in this opinion of this politician that suggest that the man in question was corrupt. Please kindly bring one that suggests such.

Sagamite:
Nah, I am very reasonable in debates.

I will not ask for the impossible considering the thing happened in 1983 before the internet and in a country like Nigeria. That was why I was very lenient with the level of evidence I asked for. Even a PDP claim would have been sufficient.

I am always objective. It is my religion. 

Join my religion, The Religion of Objectivity and Intelligence, and pay just, merely 80% tithe only (30% discount for you). 

Sagamite:
Honestly, the article is only lowly-fractionally acceptable. I would have preferred even a PDP press release.

The first thing I did was to try and find out who Ayodeji Abiola is to verify his credibility.

Even though he is an admirer, he does not have sufficient background for me to hang on every word he says/uses as "written in stone" truth. He does not have the background to suggest he is responsible enough to choose his words carefully, worse still, he is highly susceptible to generalising. Dumbos do it all the time on NL for example.

There is no way, absolutely no way, a government will have the time, resources and will to try ALL politicians. He obviously is not someone cautious with his words or eager/obligated to provide highest clarity. He seems like an average Joe of the street with an opinion.

The fact that no reliable newspaper exists that has highlighted this claim and my applying judgement of the most likely typical African military approach (i.e. lock up all politicians first of all, then release some later leaving only the most wanted), leads me to believe it is most likely hearsay.

I would be happy to reconsider if there is any evidence he served more than 4 years in jail. That is there was a sentence he saw through and he was not released as collateral jailed person or as a political prisoner by the next government.

I have the time for a shapely woman anytime, anyday. 

Sagamite:
Is there any newspaper report of it?

Even any that is reminiscing about the paradox?

I am really not the type to just accept hearsay. It would be useful to know he was one of those court marshalled and not just assume.

. . .The young Buhari attempted to fight corruption by being hard on corrupt persons. In those days, banking was not this popular, so politicians typically keep their stolen money in cash (like Barkin Zuwo did), Buhari reprinted all currencies in different colours forcing everyone to change their money in the bank - if you change a questionable amount, beyond your legal income, you are arrested. This measure was effective as it briefly curbed thieves (until IBB came). Special military tribunals were set up to try all politcians; everyone was adjudged guilty unless otherwise proven; which was difficult in a culture that was becoming culturally corrupt. The young Buhari introduced forced Nigerians to clean their environment - through WAI. He launched full scale War Against Indiscipline on every sector in Nigeria in a bid to sanitise it. He was in so much hurry to change the system that he failed to watch his back as members of his ruling Supreme Military Council led by Ibrahim Babangida (IBB) will eventually remove and imprison him when he insisted on investigating allegations of fraudulent award of contracts in the Ministry of Defense.

Had Buhari been more careful

Sagamite:
I never said being corrrupt under military courts is different from under civilian courts. There is a very fine distinction between facing a court/tribunal process and being jailed arbitrarily without trial. That was the difference I was making.

And me saying a government was "hopelessly and shamelessly corrupt" does not in anyway imply every single soul was corrupt. No way will you in this world hear me say such.

Demdem:
Thank God u used the word alledged. any evidence please to this effect?

Demdem:
First and foremost, no-one has called Buhari a saint and he is definately not one. secondly, its a known fact that the not all that were arrested during the military regime of Buhari were trully guity of the offence they were charged with (characteristics of a military regime not perculiar to naija alone).
There is no double standards here.

Sagamite:
Ok.

Do you have any news report confirming this or is it an assumption?

Sagamite:
What I said was "Being jailed for corruption under a military government is different from being jailed for corruption after a conviction by a court" is different from your intepretation that "being jailed under military govt is different from being jailed under democracy".

My point is that a military government coming into power and then jailing all the top civil servant in a govenrment parastatal is different from putting them in front of a court or tribunal and putting evidence against them forward and allowing them a defence before jailing them. One is structured, legal approach, the other is ad hoc and likely unlawful.

Demdem:
@Agba
remember that this was a military government coming to play here. all those peps were in one way or the other part of the previous civillian govt that was generally believed to be corrupt. there was a sort of blanket arrest. some of them were (e.g Dikko and his likes) while some werent.

Sagamite:
Ok. What was the man's post in 1984?

Also was he convicted? Being jailed for corruption under a military government is different from being jailed for corruption after a conviction by a court.

Sagamite:
1) He got rid of a[b] ridiculously and shamelessly corrupt democratic government[/b].

Demdem:
ok if its so, so many peeps were jailed for this same corruption charge then that includes Ekwueme, Pa Ajasin, ambrose Ali etc. the question is were they trully corrupt (at least the three i mentioned now)? better still, show me evidences that these three gentlemen were corrupt.

Sagamite:


Who be im DG of campaign?

coolpapa:
Smart Dude! So What is your point?

Because "Userlist" will likely bribe since he's a Nigerian like GEJ then we should all clap for PDP and Jonathan and celebrate their bribery and corruption?

So no need to condemn a man that gave $7,000 each to delegates out of Public money, because it is the common thing to do shey?

So no need to obey the law now, since we are all potential law breakers?

Only GEJ is more MUMU than you. You are a very sensible MUMU.

Because you like GEJ, and your PDP family spends Government money as they like does not mean USERLIST should keep quiet.

Efulefu Asswipe like you.


==================================

provided that hypocrites like you and your master Buhari has refused to die, it will take Nigerian decades to embrace positive change. How could you be so hypocritical that you could mention that GEJ gave detegates during the primaries 7,000 Dollars, without enunciating the face that Buhari disbursed 5,000 Dollar to each delegate on the same purpose the same day. If Buhari could scratch out 5,000 Dollar for each delegate, if finds himself in GEJ's position, he will multiple it by 5. accounting by the amount of desperation shown by Buhari during the primaries, attempt for rigging will be inevitable and i am fully sure that he will make no headway.

beloveeed:
Toa!! me oh am still on the fence with the various revelation which least of them is
[size=15pt]GEJ+BODe george(ex-con) vs Buhari+Hammel(ex-con)[/size]

thanks for this revelations

anathemia:
i need to lose about 8kg.
Last two years, i had mild ED-NOS, i used to eat once in 4 or five days, workout 2hours daily except sundays. It was crazy. I lost 20kg in two months. I'm dead serious. I weighed 80 at first then 58 at the end.then school went on strike for 4months and i gained it all back It destroyed my life! My optimal weight is 65kg. I weigh 73kg now & i've started eatin once a day and if i continue, i'll stop eatin again. I already feel suicidal! Help!!!
They say my body still remembers the starvation i put it thru thats why i can't lose weight fast anymore.

Evil Brain:
[b]You clearly didn't read my post properly so I'm going to repeat myself. The PDP needs to lose massively to establish the principle that if the leaders mess things up for the people, the people will vote them ou[/b]t. This is the basic principle underpinning all modern democracies. The leaders have to be taught to fear the wrath of the people. How will they ever learn if we keep rewarding them for stealing our commonwealth? If Buhari messes up, he'll be easy to get rid of in 2015. Eventually a good leader will arise from somewhere.

Sagamite:
Rubbish!!!

Absolute rubbish!!!

1) He got rid of a ridiculously and shamelessly corrupt democratic government. Even though the ideals and qualities of military rule is limited and low, from the rule he set during his tenure, one could see his intentions were more on the positive side even if delivered harshly (but I am one that thinks only harshness works for Nigerians, hence my belligerent approach on NL). Furthermore, to back his intentions, he was not corrupt.

2) He served early on in Abacha's regime when the intention was still unknown to anyone. And he served honestly.

3) I don't know any rule available to most parties that prevent anyone not convicted of anything joining the party. He has made it clear with all his best and robust efforts that he does not want Abacha's reetarded son as a candidate of his party.

4) Stop lying. He was not the one that put Nigeria in OIC, you bloody liar. It was IBB. And joining OIC does not make one an Islamic country. Go and read the charter of the OIC to educate yourself before chatting rubbish.

aisha2:
No vigilnate, we are not saying he handled the election perfectly no situation can be perfect even in science there is the . 1 percent left for error. There was a system error and he handled that well. Iwu would have avoided the situation where he would get the blame Jega is getting now and gone ahead with an election which would have been highly rigged and the results hotly contested

Evil Brain:
Nobody is saying that the other parties are full of saints. Politics is never black and white. What I'm saying is that PDP has been in power for 12 years and since then things have gotten worse for the vast majority of Nigerians. Jonathan has been commander-in-chief 1 year and has not been in any way different from his predecessors. Democracy means that the people can punish bad leaders when the government makes the masses suffer. PDP has to go!

And without massive rigging, there's no way in hell GEJ is winning by a landslide. He's only guaranteed to win the SE and SS which are the smallest zones terms of population. At best, he'll split Kaduna 50:50 with Buhari and lose badly in the rest of the north. The SW is likely to decide the winner and there is a massive anti-PDP sentiment there thanks to their rigging and their useless governors. Buhari and Bakare have made huge inroads there and Ribadu is no longer reckoned with so there'll be little splitting of the vote. In the end, I think it will come down to the 1-2 million ibos living in Lagos. The PDP expects them to vote for GEJ along ethnic lines. They may be in for a rude shock. Nigerians are not as stup.id as you think.

Blazing99:
If you're looking for saints, go to Vatican city or something. Everybody has his own weaknesses. But the outright fact is that the ruling party - PDP has more ills than any other presently in charge of Nigeria. It'll be dumb to give them another chance after they steered this country in no direction for the past 12 years.

bodejohn:
, hmmm, I see. If anybody complains about Mohammed Abacha, it sure should not be coming from a pro PDP/GEJ member because I do not know how to explain Ex convict Bode George who stole 89billion only to be sitting beside my fresh air president after two days of discharge from prision or shall we mention Ibori, Alams, Ohakim, Akala, OGD, Olisa Methu, Chris and Andy Uba, what about Oyinlola, Agagu, haaaa,  Baba Iyabo, Iyabo herself, Ette, Bankole, PDP/GEJ is a stale product, fresh air my foot!

aletheia:
Irrelevant drivel that has zero bearing on the matter at hand. Military orders still remain military orders whether in 1953 or 2011. As always obfuscating issues. Fact: He disobeyed direct orders. That is insubordination (It would behoove you to read up on General MacArthur - I am sure you will find it instructive). By failing to assert Civilian authority over the army, President Shagari unwittingly laid the groundwork for the subsequent coup that removed him from office. Is it any surprise that the insubordinate General removed him from office?

Your ends-justifies-the-means mindset is the slippery road to the Stalins and Pol Pots. But then again my interaction with BB (Buhari ^deceiving Bakare) drones leads me to believe that[b] most are closet Fascists[/b].

How Buhari jailed his campaign DG in 1984, by Daiyabu
NewsMar 21, 2011
 
*Says Buhari may have lost opportunity to become president
BY JIDE AJANI, EDITOR, NORTHERN OPERATIONS
ABUJA - Further insight was given yesterday into General Muhammadu Buhari’s style of leadership with a revelation alleging that the Director General of his campaign organisation, Dr. Sule Hamman, was sent to jail by the former in 1984 as part of those he hauled into detention immediately after taking over through a military coup on December 31, 1983.
This was part of the views expressed by fiery politician from Kano, Mallam Abdulkarim Daiyabu, in a telephone interview with Vanguard yesterday.
Daiyabu, who was a protégé of late Mallam Aminu Kano and the Yoruba sage, Chief Obafemi Awolowo, also revealed that General Buhari, who is the presidential candidate of the Congress for Progressive Change, CPC, may have lost a golden opportunity to win the presidential election slated for April 9, 2011.
The Kano-based politician told Vanguard that Buhari remains an uncorrupt and incorruptible individual but alleged that “it [size=24pt]is for people like Buhari to answer why the person he sent to jail in 1984 when he took over as Head of State and Commander-in-Chief of the Federal Republic of Nigeria should today be the Director General of his campaign, Dr. Sule Hamman. [/size]
He sent many people to jail for looting the treasuries in their states when he became Head of State and Commander-in-Chief.
“That is a question he would have to answer and tell Nigerians the reason.  In fact, it remains curious for me and I suspect that there are some people in Buhari’s campaign organisation who may be advising him wrongly”.
Asked to provide evidence of his suspicion, Daiyabu explained that “what I expected Buhari to have done, as a man who is respected by many because they see him as being clean, is to have accepted the platform provided by the Action Congress of Nigeria, ACN

President suspends Campaign Director for insulting Buhari
The director of research and strategy of the oodluck/Sambo campaign organisation, Mike Omeri has been suspended for ignoring the president's directive not to engage opposition parties in smear campaigns.

The suspension was ordered by President Goodluck Jonathan The letter, dated March 22, 2011, which conveyed Mr. Omeri's suspension yesterday, was signed by the director general of the Presidential Campaign Council of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), Dalhatu Tafida, who said he (Omeri) was making pronouncements without clearance from his superiors.

BetaThings:
So a man who calls leaders of SW rascals is playing national politics
A man who cannot tell Akpabio to let his opponents campaign in his state/local government area is playing national politics?
A man who looks on while Elecho of Ebonyi refuses Atiku and thereafter ANPP opportunity to campaign has national outlook?
A man who allows Anenih to threaten South South delegates who wished to vote for Atiku at PDP primaries is the best?

Kobojunkie:
Please compose yourself woman -- there is no need to get your unmentionables in  a wad! I am sorry but I disagree with you!!! However, that is no reason for you to call my assertions lies. You have to do more than that . . .  you actually have to SHOW your CASE -- You cannot bully me into accepting, your view, you know that right?

Again, get the context right . . . in 1983/84 ---- Nigeria's biggest issues were the economy(There was a global recession we NEEDED to recover from -- I am certain you know what that means), and corruption, which has by then become  a hindering factor. Electricity, not so much of a problem because we were actually not experiencing blackouts and all you have come to accept as the norm now, back then.