Happy Birthday CC!!  May this day be crowned with that X5 (upgraded to X6?) you have long desired!  Amen.

Not again!  I am confused.  I can't see/hear the attached.  Someone please tell me we are still not on this saga 

That is why I put it as 'if'.  I don't think he will be complaining otherwise!  I guess I am guilty as accused    Not blaming the wife, though, just calling for balance on her part, as I think it's her part to put her hussy's mind at rest by showing him the Holy Spirit has not come into her life to compete with him.  Besides, the best way the hussy can be won over is by truly experiencing first hand, through the wife, the transforming power of the Holy Spirit.  This is not by filling the house with tongues and 'going into the spirit' according to the husband (hope I won't be accused again?) but by living a transformed life which is evident for all to see, especially as the husband doesn't believe in them.  This, even the most critical husband cannot gainsay.  Let me quote something somewhat similar:

1 Peter 3:
1. In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives,
2.  as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.

Please note I am not against speaking in tongues (I do myself) neither am I saying the wife should not.  When it comes to such issues, this approach works.  My sister's husband was won by such almost in the same circumstance.

Jenny, certainly the husband has resentment now towards his wife, occassioned by his doctrinal stance of viewing speaking in tongues as strange.  This is a serious issue he has.  Looking also at the flip side, I won't heap all the blames on him if madam goes into 'the spirit' so often now with tongues of fire and all to even make approaching her so difficult a task for the husband.  That's why I feel there should be a balance.  I have seen where a wife cannot even cook again because she is in the spirit almost all the time!

@Ifyalways, you are right. Baptist is (or rather used to be) very laid back and anti-pentecostal. They certainly don't believe in speaking in tongues and the manifestation of other gifts of the Spirit. They believe the era is gone! This is changing however and I have seen shifts in their doctrinal stands.

@Gunshin and all, issues like doctrinal differences and church affiliations are things to be discussed and thrashed during courtship and not to be brushed aside as non-issues then, only to be instructing the woman now to stop and start attending your own. The truth is they are issues. They influence the way people view a lot of things. Having said this, let me give you a piece of advice: have a heart-to-heart discussion with your wife. But before that, please drop all prejudice and bias.

Since you are a christian and you are married to her, thankfully, you two have a common ground and the final authority in settling such differences should be the scriptures. Sit down and examine things without bias in the spirit of love, without any resentment from the scriptures and find out if what your wife is experiencing is scriptural or strange and don't let dogma drive a wedge in between you and your wife. Either of you should be ready to drop whatever is not backed up scripturally. This can be a rewarding exercise for both of you as you examine things together. If this is genuine, it will be futile for you to ask the 'spirit leave' her. Rather, humble yourself before God and ask Him to illuminate you about what you don't know and experience Him in a deeper and new dimension.

Having said this, I also have a word for your wife. The Holy Spirit has come to make life comfortable for us because He is the Spirit of Comfort. He is definitely not the author of confusion. The spirit of the prophet is also subject to the prophet. Speaking in tongues or being baptised in the Sprirt with that evidence is not synonymous to being a nuisance. She should become a better wife. The working of the Spirit should make her to bear the fruit of love, joy, meekeness, gentleness, patience, self-control, etc! She should be more sexy, inviting etc to her husband. It is certainly erroneous for her to 'whip' her husband with tongues or start prophesying in the bedroom when it's time for action! She should let it be evident in her disposition to her husband that value has been added to her life and stop playing religion!

I am sure things need to be balanced up. If the wife applies wisdom and tact, very soon the husband will be joining her in tongues! This is where action should speak louder than the tongues.

Moremi2008, that's okay.  Your last post told me what I needed to know.  I didn't want to derail the thread, that's why I inivited the chat.  I say amen to that your prayer request that God's will be done in your life and you make your way back to Him very soon.  My heart just goes out to you as I read that.  I certainly will be praying for you.

God bless.

@Moremi2008, seriously you mean you posted all that?       Thumbs up!  Poster, please take his advice seriously!

[size=3pt]Moremi2008, I think we need to have a chat.  I mean what happened to you? [/size]

queensmith:

@analytical AH it was not advice ooooooo, im telling her what she SHOULD DO!

i did not even see this before writing my essay! Well done woman! i was in the process of posting pictures of beaten wives and battered girlfriends after reading the first few nonsense posts!
I wish you the best of luck and hopefully you get all the support you need from your family and friends.
We can only be hopeful and pray of some miracle your husband hits his head on a post somewhere and becomes a new man. If we're to be realistic I will say- your own man is coming to you, just make sure you don't pick the wrong one next time.

It's like you didn't read what she wrote very well.

kungiya:

My people i don the table to him, he has been beging since yesterday, but live me sef i sabi do shakara.

Thanks for all the response(s) it worked magic for me. But the reality is that i really hope and pray (i have committed that one to God) that there wont be a [b]second time.[/b]

She did what was advised and it worked magic for her! It got her hitherto unremorseful husband to start apologising. They can both pick it up from there and start working on their marriage by resolving the issues. She certainly isn't looking for a 2nd marriage.

queensmith:

The question begs to be asked. How far along is your pregnancy??

I'm sure there is a Yoruba adage that fits this situation perfectly, unfortunately I do not know it

long story short, o girl the warning signs are there it's your choice on whether you want to pay attention to them.

I'm yet to see a happily beaten wife oooo- unless you want to top that list you better find your way out of the marriage fast fast.

Dunno why you married him in the first place. I'm more than sure he has been aggressive towards you before.

Ladies should take note.

Queensmith, wrong advice. She doesn't want to get out of the marriage. She actually wants to fix it. Check her update just a couple of posts away from from yours.

Now to my good friend, TV01,

TV01:

No Analytical, I implied nothing of the sort. And what I said is clear. The course of action I suggested did not include begging or apologising. I didn't even use the latter word.

The apology aspect of it is minor and will come as reconciliation is effected. It's actually parlayed more in it's playground sense here. "You were wrong, so you say sorry first" being the point? regardless of true remorse or a long-term fix?

Many are calling me out as a "typical Nigerian", which is amusing, as my claim to being Nigerian is at best tenuous. One begs for what one wants. One apologises for wrongdoing or error. Not the same thing although I appreciate your "typical naija" may conflate them.

Let me reserve the right to quibble with your response for now .

@Busy_body, hi and thanks for being objective.

Best
TV

Maybe you didn't realise the way you put the statement somehow implied you wanted her to beg!  My solution involves true remorse on the side of the husband, hence my advising her not to be cowed by his tantrums.  Begging for what she wants, according to you, in this case will be misconstrued by the husband.  So it's better to totally avoid that approach until he has apologised or shown true remorse.

On your other responses, I didn't imply she employs deceit.  Far from it.  When I advised she shows strength, I meant exactly that.  She has to dig deep and find that inner strength to deal with the issue.  She needed to encourage herself and enjoy herself.  Why would she continue to punish herself after receiving slap?  The man should be made to see what he is missing.  Hence, my advise to her to enjoy herself in the process; not forming, but actually making up her mind to as well enjoy herself!

What is wrong in teasing with passion your husband that was avoiding you?  He is her husband.  No pretense here.  Apregnant wife can be attractive if she gets creative.  The man was being unreasonable by avoiding her, so she can as well make it worth his efforts!  Marriage is a loong journey, not a sprint.  Eventually the man will learn not to but it's good to make him see what he is missing    Singing is therapeutic.  She better employ it.  Why is this a pretense?

I have not advised her to be deceitful.  I encouraged her to change her approach.  Instead of allowing him to weigh her down, why not refuse to be weighed down and let him see/know it.  You see, men sometimes need to be jolted back from their ego trips.  When he sees he is not having his desired result and he is merely punishing himself, he will come to his senses.

That is my drift.

Busy-body,

Of course, humility should be an ingredient if any one wants the best out of her/his marriage. I didn't suggest the opposite. We were devising a strategy to get her husband back. Going outrightly to beg may not have worked and I believe it wouldn't have been a good approach, giving that the man wasn't even talking with her and hardly stayed at home. Also, I still believe it's really not about differences between men and women, but more of differences in temperaments and maturity coupled with ego issues.

On a lighter side, 'softly-softly' with that your testerone levels and yanking table off to disconnect someone's artery o. Very scary!

dayokanu:

I disagree that you cant have an argument or a disagreement with your wife when she is pregnant

Dayokanu, I learnt that one early in my marriage. Trust me, pregnancy hormones play a lot of tricks on a woman's body. Maybe I overgeneralised a bit. But I have learnt it is not advisable to. I have watched many women change drastically during pregnancy and do/say things they don't really mean. Not because they mean to. Many make requests that are so odd and inconsistent with their normal nature. Husbands should learn to understand with their wives at this period.

I know women react differently during pregnancy, but majority do funny things as well. Many have nausea almost all through. Some may not even be able to stand the smell of food in the kitchen. Many avoid cooking entirely. Some prefer strange foods during the period and all sort of things. Having a disagreement or quarel upsets most pregnant women. Don't be surprised to see her crying for seemingly innocent disapproval of how she dressed!!

ThiefOfHearts:


This is great advice here.

Analytical, one quetsion though, what if she hasnt forgiven him? should she still say she has?

Thanks TOH. I assumed she has already forgiven her or willing to. If she hasn't, then she has to start from there! She is the willing partner in this case, so the initiative has to come from her. Being in marriage means you have to have your chest full of forgiveness in advance! It is an important ingredient of love which is the bedrock of marriage.

Hi Kungiya,

I was posting a reply to some posts when I saw yours, so I have to respond to yours first. I am glad for you. I thought as much that the approach was going to break him down and bring him back to his senses. Good for him, let him beg and mean it. It's your time to organise your home. You are in a better position now. Don't do the shakara thing for too long. Get him to commit more to his responsibility as head of the home and that includes making sure you are secured and protected, not slapping you. Make sure he vows never to repeat it, then ask for compensation for the one he already did!!! He needs to give you a treat to settle the deal.

While you are at it, the two of you sit down and discuss what caused the argument that led to the slap in the 1st instance. Discuss what the two of you could have done differently to avert the situation and learn from it. Also, he owes your brother an apology and a make-up.

All the best in your marriage.

Busy-body,

Busy_body:


This is what i was driving at when i was saying men and women are different and handle things differently and this was what i was supposed to be discussing with Maclatuinji time-permitting about men retreating into their cave when faced with issues they cannot presently handle. Hubby knows he has messed up, hence reason he has now reluctantly involved a third party cos his expected expectations that wifey would come crawling back to him had not manifested.

I don't think this is just about differences between men and women! The husband didn't just retreat, he is reacting! If he knows he messed up, he should send the friend to apologise on his behalf, as a prelude, not sitting on his high horse and sending someone to find out why the wife told her brother. That in itself is insulting. It shows he wasn't ready to admit any wrong-doing.

I wonder why some people will not just stay in the romance and jokes sections! 

Busy-body, early in marriage is when issues are better dealt with before the differences get out of hand and become irreconcilable.  I am for the OP initiating the process in this case but with a caveat.  If it is a blank cheque, she stands the risk of burying the husband's underlying stubborn ego and anger issues while pretending all is well.  The problem with such is that they normally resurface later.  So I say, what I said before, she should initialise and/or show signs of readiness for such but the man has to be willing to admit and make amends for his actions too.  Very important.  That is what shows remorse and willingness to change.

Nashville, I said as much in my advice to her some posts back.  I wasn't referring to you when I said 'some men'.  I meant some men generally.

Moremi2008, please tone down your language.  I believe we can make our points without resorting to name-calling and all.  This is family section and we are dealing with people with real problems seeking solutions.  The least we could do is to offer them without distracting from the issues at hand or discouraging people simply because we don't agree with others' opinions.

Nashville:

I can swear he is feeling bad, ashamed and guilty, so my question is are you willing to help him. You are newly married so this is an opportunity to establish conflict resolution procedure for your marriage.

I am not too sure about the bolded part.  Someone feeling bad, ashamed and guilty would have initiated a resolution and won't abscond  from his pregnant wife.  Yes, this is the opportunity to establish conflict resolution procedure and that involves either party learning to admit when they are wrong.  The husband has not clearly done that but as it is with some men, expects the wife to come kneeling down, crying and begging them since he is the head of the home.  It could have been different if his actions show some remorse and he is finding it difficult to say he is sorry.

Busy-body, we were not there when it happened.  The husband is not here to tell us his version.  We can only advise based on what the OP wrote and she needed the advice she could get and fast too, because she wants to save her marriage.  While I don't know what the argument between her and the husband was initially about (she may be wrong for all we know!), the actions the husband took were not the best, especially considering her condition.

I agree mostly with what TV01 wrote, save for those highlighted.  I am for marriage and its sanctity.  Telling the OP to go apologising (for getting slapped) will not help the husband deal with his fragile ego that tripped out of control so eagerly.  At the same time, since she is the one seeking advice and willing to reconcile, I gave my advice as I did above.  It has to be done without condoning the wrong acts of the husband nor debasing her own self-esteem.

Cheers.

TV01, I'm cool.

My post was becoming long, so I couldn't post parts of yours I didn't agree with.  Here they are:

Many are counseling you not to beg. Even the worldly know that when it comes to engendering harmony in relationships – let alone the apex human relationship of marriage – pride should be the last thing in view. Even TLC knew to sing “I ain’t to proud to beg”.

Am I saying beg? Not as such, what I am saying is “humble yourself”. Approach your husband (how and when is peculiar to the dynamic between you. Please consider the best way and time to broach this).

You implied somehow she has to beg or she wasn't humble enough, which I disagree with.  I think there are ways other than begging or apologizing for being slapped.

Now about your husband. You are wondering  why he is behaving as if he was the one that got slapped. That’s because in a way he did. He see’s himself as the head of “his” home. Your reporting him to your brother and his sister and their taking him to task over this was an “ ego slap”.

He didn't get slapped.  No one is contesting the headship of the home with him.  Part of that headship entails temperance/self-control which he didn't exhibit.  She didn't report him to her brother.  He reported himself when he gave a slap to his brother-in-law's hearing!  At that point, the reaction he got from the brother is totally out of his wife's hands.  While I won't encourage her bringing 3rd parties to resolving their private issues, you have to consider the fact she is pregnant and so physically and emotionally vulnerable.  In this case, telling his sister may not be so out of order, considering he didn't even feel remorseful after!  He may just need someone to bring him back from his ego trip!  If he didn't think twice to slap a preggy wife, he may do worse later!

Please, except in extreme case always try and contain incidents between yourself and your husband to just the two of you in the first instance. Outcomes. Remember, always be your husbands staunchest and most loyal supporter.

Agreed.  However, you have to realise they are still adjusting and setting boundaries.  With time and benefit of hindsight, they will learn to keep issues strictly private, but violence should be a no-go area.

Feel free to show where you don't agree with me.

. . .

So,what is the way forward?  The man should apologize to the wife not the other way round.  This is where I disagree with TVo1.  And not only the wife, he should apologize also to the wife’s brother and to his own sister as well!  Then he should make amends for passing the wife through such unwarranted turbulence at a time she needs all the love she can get and make sure this is the 1st and the last slap he will ever give the wife.

Hungiya has not done anything wrong.  So I won’t go advising her to apologize to the man, however fragile his ego might be at this point.  The first years of marriage are boundary setting ones and as such trying, because frictions are bound/prone to occur.   That is when most marriages that fail break up.  The husband is the one to apologize and he ought to do it without reservations or being coaxed.  This is the time for him to learn that.

But the husband is not here and is not the one seeking advice on how to save his marriage.  So I will rather advise Hungiya what she could do.  Yes, she can make the move for reconciliation or show him she is ready to reconcile, while not condoning his wrongs or tantrums.  First, Kungiya, let him know he has been forgiven by any means you could.  Since you are not talking right now, you can drop notes where he can see them.  You may send sms to him.  You may send his friend back to him.  Let him know he is forgiven but he needs to realize how much he has hurt you.  If he actually loves you, this should work.

Another thing you can do is to actually show some strength and not weakness.  Don't give in to his tantrums.  Show him you are enjoying yourself anyway.  Cook nice meals for yourself and relish eating it.  Watch your favourite program and be seen to enjoy it.  Dress (or UnCloth) to entice him but don’t give him the chance to even come near!!  Except he is playing ‘away matches’, he surely needs his wife at some point.  Sing loudly and be cheerful about it.  The essence is to send a signal to him that you are not moved by his tantrums but enjoying yourself as he can see!  This is also good for your baby!  The earlier he realizes his error and makes-up the better for him.

If he doesn’t respond, then let him know you have decided to go stay with his sister till you deliver since he can’t offer you physical, emotional and psychological support.  This should speak to the man in him that he is not fulfilling his responsibilities while not demeaning you and hopefully jerk him up to wake up.

Hope it works.

All,

Kungiya's husband committed a series of blunders:

1.  Having an argument with a pregnant wife and walking out: He needs to learn she is prone to mood swings and hormonal tricks and as such vulnerable at this period.  This is when she needs understanding from him.  Whatever his wife says or does to him in this state is not to be taken seriously.  Arguing with her is just out of it.  Moreso, it’s not too healthy to pass such negative emotions to the baby inside.

2.  Slapping her at all: He must be really out of his mind at this point.     Arguably, he thought she was reporting him to whoever, but hitting her is just madness.  Slapping her at all is so so gross, but slapping a pregnant wife is pure madness.  At a time when he should be treating his wife like a queen and dancing to every one of her whims and odd requests (yes, some requests can be very odd) at this time and enjoying the thrills of it all, being the first-time father-to-be, he is busy abusing his pregnant wife!  What if she fainted?  What if she fell down and injured herself?  What if she goes into premature labour?  What if she loses the pregnancy?  What sort of man slaps a pregnant wife?

3.  Slapping her when she was talking with someone on the phone: Knowing she was with someone on the phone, he should have exercised caution by controlling his anger.  How can you slap a wife, pregnant, to the hearing of someone on the other end?  What sort of impression was he creating?

4.  Slapping her to the hearing of her brother:  Now finding out that the person on the other end is her brother serves him right.  He reported himself.  Was he expecting the brother to praise him for slapping his sister?  He has messed himself up right before his in-law.  He deserves whatever he gets from the brother.  He is lucky he wasn’t beaten up, just to teach him a lesson.  He ought to have apologized to the brother instead of acting up like a baby.

5.  Not showing remorse or apologizing after the act: I wonder why some men feel it’s macho not to apologize!  If you are wrong, by every means you don’t have to wait to apologize, moreso to your wife.  It doesn’t remove from your manhood.  Everyone in a relationship should learn to use the words ‘please’ and ‘sorry’.


6. Acting funny and playing the victim: This is just so childish.  You don’t slap someone and still act up except you are a clown.

7. Absconding from home and avoiding the wife: You don’t do this to a pregnant wife, regardless of what she did.  She needs the husband, emotionally, psychologically and physically.

8. Sending a friend to discuss with his wife while he avoids his wife This is shirking your responsibility as a man and a husband.  Resolving issues with a wife whom you have wronged is a mark of maturity.

. . .

Hi TVo1.  Good to hear from you.  Have you come to stay?  I hope so.  Have missed our exchanges, but now I can see you have been 'busy'.  Congrats again.  I pray yours is a blissful one.  Regards to her.  Need to run.  I will watch out for you.

Cheers all.

Chaircover, you dey mind Sagamite?  I actually don't enjoy needless debates, especially coming from someone that cannot put his words across without name-calling and insults.  I am yet to see a better alternative to marriage he proposed.  He says it is not worth it but here comes someone in it that says he is enjoying it and he comes with such foul language! How else will he see anything good in marriage when mutual respect is so far away?

Debosky, posted before seeing your last post.

Let me make it clear this is not about convincing anyone they are wrong, except someone was bent on making it so.  OP requested in one of his posts reasons why marriage is worthwhile and some of the reasons were offered but obviously hit some at the wrong spots.

I am not given to trading insults with anyone let alone on a public forum, albeit anonymously.  What I say is matter-of-factly and no offences intended.  Sorry if it landed as such.  Also, I never said singleness is bad.  What I am against is singleness that is bordering on irresponsibility.  You can see such being spewed all over this thread.

My point has been made. People have the power of choice. Some choose to fail, others choose to succede. I wish all the best, including Sagamite.

Debosky,

Is it not obvious I wasn't blaming all societal problems on the decline of marriage but pointing out the ones that are directly products of warped relationships and eroded family values?  The analogy I gave about road accidents is to drive home the point about the 50% statistics being brandished around as the reason for the marriage phobia!  People might as well not travel by road since they might be part of those road accident victim statistics!

@Dayokanu,

That their marriage failed is not necesarily because they didnt do their due diligence.

. . .

Benny Hinn who was in marriage for 30yrs, have counselled millions into building succesful marriages yet failed in his own, What concept of building a succesful marriage do you think is strange to him?

While I won't want us to discuss people instead of issues, I will say some things must have led to their marriage ending in a divorce. The couple must have neglected to tend to their garden again. Like I mentioned earlier, a lot of issues are involved in keeping a marriage going, which if you ignore, even the most anointed of marriages can crash. He may have counselled millions, if they refuse to work on their own, it will still fail. Or was it not the same Benny that was pictured holding hands, coming out of a hotel with a female preacher, in a compromising way, even before his divorce went through? Now, I am sure they themselves were not proud of that inappropriate behaviour. It is not easy to throw away a 30 year-old marriage just like that, it must have happened gradually.

@Debosky,

Your points are well noted.  Not everyone wishes to get married and one should respect such wishes.  But by all means, pointing to statistics of failure and closing eyes to be success flip side is being pessimistic and hypocritical.  What is the point of running away from marriage only to add to the societal ills by raising psychologically imbalanced kids outside a proper home setting?  Which is worse?

Now by that I am not referring to those who by chance of life find themselves as single parents one way or the other.  What is sad is seeing young chaps deliberately choosing to have baby mamas and babies instead of raising a family in a marriage.  Marriages fail as a result of so many things.  If I want mine to succede, is it not my duty to guard against such instead of throwing away the baby with the dirty water?

Sagamite, I will oblige you one more response.

I know my posts hit a very sore spot in so many people like you; people that think it is medieval and so uncivilized to believe in marriage and its virtues.  I will show you where such ‘civilization’ has ended us.  It has bred a generation that applauded  9 year olds that are impregnating underage girls.  It has given birth to 12 year olds that go on killing sprees.  It has bred a world where gals barely teens now get pregnant while the world cheers.  Now we have mothers and their teen daughters sharing boyfriends and they come before talk show hosts to argue who should have rights to the boyfriend!

If you believe marriage is not worth it, you are entitled to your own opinion.  You will actually be saving the unfortunate girl a life of misery by steering clear, with this your mindset.  You talk of 50% statistics as if you have to become part of the failure figures.  Some have asked you already about the other 50% that are successful.  You talked of reality.  The reality is that there are still 50% that are successful and mine happen to be one of them.  I am thoroughly enjoying and satisfied with my marriage.  If you see that as illogical and dogmatic, I wish you all the best.  And to burst your bubble, I did not have a relationship that failed in the past, neither did I date others before marrying.  I sought and discovered my other half and we have been happy since!

By that did I mean it was all easy to achieve?  No, by all means.  Whoever buys a brand new car 100% perfect without maintaining it constantly to keep it in good shape?  A marriage not worked on by the spouses is like a car not regularly serviced and maintained.  There are many things involved which people like you don’t want to ever be found doing.  Issues like love, tolerance, compromise, understanding, commitment, sacrifice, forgiveness etc are ingredients that make a marriage work.   No one is perfect.  That is where these virtues come into play.

Talking about statistics, do you know about 1.3 million people die in road accidents yearly?  And do you know 50 million more suffer injury and disability yearly as a result of road accidents?  That is grim if you ask me.  Now, with such statistics, is it really worth it to drive cars or travel by road?  Instead of making your mind and working to make sure you are not part of the failure, here you are playing the devil’s advocate.

Say whatever you may, the truth is that marriage is desirable.  I look at people that are leaders and majority of them are married.  Obama did not throw marriage out and produce kids all over the place.  Who would have voted for such an irresponsible (since you so much hate that word!!) playboy to lead?  The whole world watched as British prince wedded Kate and everyone wished them well.  You want to raise a family but you don’t want to give it legitimacy!  Only lower animals raise kids arbitrarily.  The largest elephant only possesses the intellect of a 2 year old kid and you would have us believe human beings should live in animal farms where there are no rules and boundaries?

I wish you well.

Dont get me wrong Coogar.  I wasn't referring to the dating phase here, except you are being mischievous.  They have been married for 30 years.  The same principles that kept them going for 30 years surely can still keep them, isn't it?  They must have done their diligence then, but you have to keep at it now.  You don't say because you planted a garden yesterday, you don't have to dress it today, else it will grow weeds.

It takes two to tango.  Marriage requires the spouses to keep working at it, else it will grow weeds.