₦airaland Forum

Newton's Laws of Motion are only valid in classical physics. They are not valid for quantum physics or before time and space existed. Hence, the premise of your assertion about the big bang is inherently faulty.

The kid is obviously a smart kid. Please don't recommend beating a kid into accepting an idea; doing so means you will create a kid with subdued curiosity. The OP should first answer that question for himself: if the complexity of the universe implies a creator then this means the complexity of Yahweh implies a creator too right? So who created Yahweh? And who created Yahweh's creator? And that creator's creator? You get my gist. Please find your answer to that question first and then tell the child. But please don't use force on him.

Suggestion for the OP: start getting ready to do lots of reading on human history, the history of religion, and the history of Christianity. Also do lots of reading on the physics behind the universe, and the evolution of species. And then maybe, just maybe, it will shed light on the depth behind the question the kid asked.

coolebux:
Oya carry that pikin go una Church children department shapaly,

mek them use things like

The book of my Bible stories

Children's Bible

Christian songs

And Koboko (if need be)

Show am say Baba no be fake

But if to say the pikin been dey naija since, e for don know Baba God tey tey.

Ok, the issue is that your thread didn't address it head on. The same justifications you gave for why it is ok for Yahweh to command the Israelites to mass murder people is the analogous to the justification that ISIS gives for its mass murder of innocent people in Syria and Iraq.

But if you feel you already sufficiently addressed the topic, then it makes sense we don't go over it again (no matter how unsatisfied I am with your position).

KingEbukasBlog:
Bro , I said these arguments were brought up on that thread , its no use going over what has been dealt with before . You can read the OP of the thread and then the comments that followed, and if you have new questions let me know on that thread .

Your post doesn't address or justify the specific verses I posted here.
But it's ok if you have no morally justifiable response.

There's no need to wow anyone; these are basic moral arguments for which a doctorate degree is unnecessary.

KingEbukasBlog:
I was expecting to be wowed and all you did was rehash the same arguments .

These were brought up here

https://www.nairaland.com/3031728/reasons-why-god-not-subject

We can continue from there .

lepasharon:
Oh Really? what's so abhorrent about it : |

lepasharon:
Everyone hates Jews, the only ppl who like them are ass- kissing Africans

It is abhorrent because your phrase appears to support the unjustified hatred of Jews. You write as though it should be completely normal to hate Jews. This is the same exact kind of thinking that led to the Holocaust, and the same sort of thinking that normalized viewing Africans as subhumans to be enslaved and treated like property for centuries. You shouldn't promote normalizing hatred. The world would become a better place if we viewed each other (those similar to us and those different from us) with empathy and humanity.

Let's not ask each other obvious questions na. There are several examples of Yahweh implementing murder on people who did little to nothing.
Here's are a few examples:

2 Kings 23-24
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.
Do you support this sort of mass murder supposedly implemented by Yahweh? Isn't this cruel, unusual, deeply unjust, and inhumane?

One of the most common examples given is Yahweh commanding King Saul to kill all the Amalekites, including their babies.
1 Samuel 15:3
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.
So what did the babies do to deserve such death? What did the animals do to deserve such death? Would you consider these murders to be just?

Deutronomy 25:11-12
If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.
Do these sort of commands appear moral and humane to you bro?

2 Chronicles 15:12-13
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
This is exactly equivalent to what ISIS does. Do you think it is justified for Yahweh to command his followers to murder someone because they believe in a different deity?

Isaiah 14:21
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.
Is this justified?

KingEbukasBlog:
What was the reason for why Yahweh commanded the Israelites to kill them ?

If you think that it is ok for Yahweh to command one group of humans to murder another group of humans, then to be intellectually consistent you are probably ok with ISIS claiming their god (Allah) endorses their mass murder of innocent people in Syria and Iraq?

Please think about this for a bit before you respond. If you would indulge me here, just think about this from the perspective of someone who is an outsider to both Christianity and Islam. To the outsider, saying that it is morally ok for Yahweh's followers to mass murder another group (supposedly under the commands of Yahweh), is exactly equivalent to saying that it is morally ok for ISIS to mass murder another group (supposedly under the commends of Allah).

KingEbukasBlog:
Bro , you mean the God that gave them life does not have the right to take what He gave them ?

Nice sleight of hand there. You are implying she said that because she's atheist?

You do realize that her comment is just as bad as all your justifications on previous NL threads for why Yahweh shouldn't be held to basic human moral standards, right? I would argue your justifications are even worse. Based on your arguments, mass murder of young babies is ok because Yahweh did it. You now want come back around holier than thou when you yourself support mass murder in the Bible? Pot calling the kettle black. You ought to be morally consistent.

KingEbukasBlog:
If she were wise she would have expunged that after I told her about the pogroms . Well you know , she's an atheist . So...

This is probably the second time I would agree with you about anything. @lepasharon's post about Jews is absolutely abhorrent.

KingEbukasBlog:
I'm sure you are in support of the pogroms against the Jews .
smh

I don't understand your style of debate. If you want to have an honest conversation, what's the point of accusing someone of lying when he says he met two Israelis? What about that is so incredulous? This is exactly why debating on NL Religion threads always devolves into rains of insults and abuses. I think you should venture to argue with good intent, the way the character of Jesus would have you do.

If I were an alien from another planet reading the NL debates between atheists and Christians, I definitely wouldn't want to become Christian because a large fraction of the Christian debaters on here are very quick to troll massively and rain down insults. @KingEbukasBlog and @winner01 and @Naijadeyhia, three of you are Exhibit A for this sort of behavior. I particularly can't understand how you guys can even consider yourselves Christians or Christ-like. If Jesus was divine, then I can't understand how (based on your NL attitudes) he would consider you guys to be people who "Love Your Neighbors As Yourselves"; the bile that comes out of your mouths is legendary.

But then maybe the Yahweh character would be fine with your behaviors, since his behaviors in the Old Testament can not be seen as moral by any stretch.

Jay542:
This 1 na ode sha. When you interact them you'll definitely know who they are and their belief Guy I no come here come preach. Just to clear you that you did not meet any Israelite talk more or 2. You don't have to lie to prove any point

What you just explained is, in loose terms, deism. I have no problem with deists & deism, this position is defensible.

The problem is that theists make giant but illogical and indefensible leaps away from deism. For example, Christians (of which I assume you are one) make the leap that their god didn't just create the universe but he impregnated a virgin to give birth to himself so that he could die and resurrect himself and then levitate into space solely for the purpose of saving just one specie of his creation from an eternal fire he prepared for them.

What??!?!!! This just makes no sense.

To add insult to injury, Christians claim that this same supposed god favored just one ethnic group of people and for their sakes murdered millions of their neighbors (also his creation) and additionally commanded atrocities such as cutting off of people's hands for petty crimes and non-crimes. Huh??!?!!!

I could go on and on about more absurd Christian claims, but I won't go further. I can respect deism, but theism is neither logically defensible nor sound.

shadeyinka:
If at the beginning the total energy in the multiverse is zero. The source of the energy CANNOT be of a material origin. Theist will call this Source GOD!

shadeyinka:
You see that both of us have scriptures we follow:
You, the report of Scientists (who claimed they did experiments in the quantum states)

Me, the report of Spiritual men (who claimed they received information from God)

However, you chose NOT to believe the report of the " spiritual men" because they are not scientific in their presentation. Forgetting that, the spiritual is NOT scientific.

Note that the "so called evidences and data" did not originate from you..and except you are an experimental nuclear or plasma physicist, the number of experiments you personally did in quantum physics is limited indeed. You trusted that the mass and charge of electrons are exactly what is presented in book of constants and you use them for calculations without question...isn't the kilogram a choice of scale for mass?

My point is that you discard every attestations of spiritual men simply because they are not scientific. If you turn the table around, suppose I discarded every scientific report because they are not spiritual would you not see me as unreasonable?

Actually you don't need to be an experimental nuclear or plasma physicist to observe the effect of quantum mechanics. The operation of semiconductors, emission spectroscopy, etc demonstrate quantum mechanical effects. I have done experiments on both semiconductors and emission spectroscopy to know that quantum mechanics isn't a lie. I also have done simple experiments to demonstrate the wave-particle duality of photons. But that's besides the point. The computer/phone you use to type your work would not work if not for quantum mechanics. This debunks your assertions clearly and definitively! Quantum mechanics is not speculation. It is fact. Notions about the spirit world are arbitrary and unfounded; you have zero proof for it, whereas I have proof for the physical world. The proof about the the correctness of quantum mechanics is in your hands!

shadeyinka:
Its like saying, Drive your Bus through this Fence without breaking the walls, then I will believe in quantum Physics.

shadeyinka:
You mean that the spiritual has not been scientifically proven?
Suppose my argument had been that the scientific has not been spiritually proven, you will see me as obstinate, wouldn't you?

The spiritual and the scientific/physical are more or less synonymous to the relationship between the quantum and classical states. They operate on different rules.

Your claim about a supposed spiritual world is just a claim. You would have to agree this physical world is governed by a set of provable physical laws. There is proof everywhere (e.g. your car, lightbulb, phone, airplane). The scientific method is extremely reliable as demonstrated by most of the technological tools that you use. You attempt to equate the quantum/classical mechanics dichotomy to the physical/spirit worlds is incorrect. There is repeatable quantifiable proof for quantum and classical mechanics, and you can't deny this. There isn't any proof for claims about a supposed spiritual world. Your claims are subjective and arbitrary. Proof is all I ask, not subjective emotional experiences or hallucinations.

shadeyinka:
Suppose you woke up one day and began to SEE, HEAR, and SPEAK to beings who can only be seen and heard by you, how can it be scientifically proven that YOU speak the truth? Now, to you what you see is reality however, science will conclude that you are hallucinating. Suppose you are not hallucinating, will science not have been sincerely WRONG?

Hallucinations are real to the patient, but not a correct objective observation of the world. Please all I ask for is proof. Science is willing to learn and improve itself, and will turn its back on whatever is found to have been incorrect. Religion however is the obstinate free-wheeling arbitrary counter-party to science. So please, proof or evidence.

shadeyinka:
I used the illustration of driving a bus through a wall without breaking the wall as an example of an Atheists expectation of proof Theists must produce to prove the existence of God. If one need a proof of the quantum state he should not rigidly think in the classical state.

No evidence or rational explanation means your claims are arbitrary. Most young students don't enter a quantum mechanics class having expectations about quantum tunneling; yet they are convinced of it because data and empirical observation and/or credible evidence.

shadeyinka:
You keep saying zero evidence because the only explanation that would have satisfied you is the physical. Like if a massive lightning wrote in the open sky: I AM GOD!!!!....and 20 16feet tall Angels with wings like swans fly around the writing. If science can explain EVERYTHING, your stance would have been understandable. Unfortunately the best you can hope is that probably in future, science will have satisfactory answers to them.

Example:
How come some people have an explicit experience of reality when they have an NDE? (Science cannot theorize that the experiences are dreams because people seldom dream the nature of their kind of experiences).

Science can't explain everything yet, but this doesn't give you the epistemological authority to assume that it is YOUR god (or your specific conception of the spirit world) that is responsible for whatever we don't yet understand. "God of the gaps" is a receding pocket of ignorance, and it will continue to recede.

shadeyinka:
Still the same thing, you can only accept scientific/physical evidences. However, the truth remains that not everything in life can be measured.


Examples:
Consciousness, Conscience, Faith, Love, Emotion, ...How can YOU scientifically verify any of the above. However, even though these cannot be scientifically verified or quantified, does it make them figments of imaginations?

Hahahahaha. We can turn off parts of your brain and you lose all consciousness. Consciousness/conscience/love/emotion (etc) are due to physical processes. For you to attempt to ascribe these traits to the "spiritual" when they are in fact undeniably and provably physical is mind-blowing. These traits you infer are "spiritual" are easily distorted when the brain experiences physical trauma.

shadeyinka:
Every Physicist know that ENERGY does not exist in ISOLATION.

There is usually a SOURCE or a CAUSE of Energy.

POSTULATE 1:
If Energy can spontaneously exist in the Universe at the beginning of time, then
God can spontaneously exist.

POSTULATE 2:
If Energy cannot spontaneously exist in the universe at the beginning of time, then God is the source of ALL Energies.

Don't forget that Energy is intangible until it acts on matter but it is Real.

God is intangible until He acts on matter yet He is Real.

Matter itself is Energy (Energy in its passive state).

Which god? Thor? Sango? Amadiora? Obatala? Vishnu?
Let me help you out here:

POSTULATE 1:
If Energy can spontaneously exist in the Universe at the beginning of time, then
God Invisible spiders can spontaneously exist.

POSTULATE 2:
If Energy cannot spontaneously exist in the universe at the beginning of time, then God the transcedental invisible spider is the source of ALL Energies.

Don't forget that Energy is intangible until it acts on matter but it is Real.

God The invisible spider is intangible until He acts on matter yet He is Real.

I am 100% atheist although I guess I don't fit your definition of "100% Nigerian". However a very close family member is 100% atheist and is 100% Nigerian by your definition; my discovery of our shared disbelief surprised me.

Here are my opinions for why the percentage of "100% Nigerian" atheists may not (yet) be as high as it is in the West.
1. Social factors: most people don't even consider questioning religion because it could lead to significant social fallout.
2. Education: our educational system does not encourage questioning authority, and does not encourage unbounded critical thinking.
3. Superstitious culture & mental inertia: Most Nigerian traditional cultures believe in the spirit world so most of our minds are deeply brainwashed from birth. Additionally, our society has not even yet entered a scientific "age of reason".
4. Our collectivist culture: Our collectivist culture is very good when it comes to bringing family and friends together, but it can be stunting when it comes to asserting one's individualism. This collectivism is a generally good trait (as it helps stave off loneliness and depression that is rampant in individualist western countries) HOWEVER this communal approach fosters groupthink and can impede truly independent thinking.
5. Scientific illiteracy: A lot of Nigerians are scientifically illiterate. Even certain so-called people trained in the sciences think only within their training domain, and are unable or unwilling to process and synthesize any scientific information that doesn't fit their predetermined intuition. The debates on the Religion thread about the factuality of evolution is an example of this.

It is the "100% Nigerians" that are truly radical thinkers or boundless readers that end up unconvering the scam that is theism.

shadeyinka:
Quoting You: The problem though is that both physical and spiritual mechanics exist in the physical realm (and have be verified repeatedly),...deleted
Although as Atheists, no explanation satisfies you..."except If a Bus is driven through a Wall and the wall did not break down".

Don't we teach tunnelling in quantum Physics? LOL!

Tunneling is a quantum phenomenon and makes no sense in the classical world. This has been proven mathematically and experimentally. How is this related to "spiritual mechanics"? Quantum mechanics has been independently and consistently verified thousands of times, to an extremely high level of accuracy! The notion that the spirit world exists, to state it kindly, is just an arbitrary hypothesis that is born out of a human desire to have explanations for things in nature that s/he does not understand. But the hypothesis of the spiritual world is one that has not been shown to have any empirical basis in reality.

shadeyinka:
No amount of illustration and patience will convince a lay man concerning the quantum state (try it) except he is first willing to accept the possibility of non classical events which may contradict his earthly experiences. I think Atheist have concluded on the fact that there is ZERO probability of the spiritual existing. This conclusion make them unteachable. Just consider a lay man who believes that the quantum state has
ZERO probability of existing, how can he comprehend quantum phenomenons even if well explained.

I was once a lay man, but I eventually became convinced about the factuality of quantum mechanics because data! Before that I never even considered the possibility of non-classical events operating under different rules, but data swiftly changed my mind. I have not met any physicist who wasn't blown away by the weirdness of quantum mechanics; yet they have to accept it because of the preponderance of data and experiments that prove it to be correct. The notion of a spirit world existing is not and has never been repeatedly and reliably proven, ever. No claims about the spirit world have ever passed the test of empirical scrutiny. BUT most atheists would change their minds if there was ever proof of the existence of one. If you indeed have a test to prove the existence of the spirit world and miracles, then you stand to win a ton of money & prizes (click link)! I will celebrate with you if you can win any of these prizes!

There's this unfounded idea that atheists are just stubborn people who would refuse to believe even with the evidence right in front of them. This is far from the truth. Most atheists are "agnostic atheists" in that they don't claim they have all the knowledge, they just disbelieve all the unsubstantiated or falsified claims by theists. I don't have to be convinced that the sun exists, I don't have to be convinced that the internet exists, heck I don't even have to be convinced that quantum mechanics is true. Why? Because evidence, data, logic, etc. Claims about the spirit world are held to this same standard.

shadeyinka:
This is usually an Atheists conclusion. You don't have to believe in the existence of the spiritual rhelm, but to acknowledge the POSSIBILITY ..PROBABILITY that it could exist. Then, evidences COULD make sense when logically presented. Other than that no progress can be made.

In the broad & abstract philosophical sense, anything is possible. But in the pragmatic sense, not everything is plausible. For example, in an unnamed planet in an unnamed hypothetical universe it could be possible that if I jump I will keep going up and up and end up in space BUT on planet earth there is a 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999...% chance that this would never happen. As a matter of fact, all objective human observations have shown that this is not a plausible scenario. For this reason, I would not pragmatically entertain the idea that if I jump I will levitate from earth into space (unless extraordinary evidence is provided, given the extraordinary nature of the claim).

For the same sort of reasons, I have no reason to believe in the existence of the supernatural. I used to acknowledge and in fact believe in the existence of the supernatural, but I have since thrown it out of the window because I realized that all the claims were arbitrary and with ZERO evidence. The notion that any idea should be seen as a possibility (even if it is not plausible whatsoever) is itself very problematic. I could use your line of thinking to propose to you that our galaxy was formed by an invisible spider residing at its center black hole; based on your rhetoric this is possible, yet you probably won't entertain this view because it sounds silly. I don't believe in your claims of the spiritual for the same reasons that you don't believe in my hypothetical invisible spider. Extraordinary evidence is needed.

shadeyinka:
How did you get to comprehend quantum physics? We trusted the Text books and our Teachers, then we acknowledged the possibility of events beyond the classical happening, then we applied logics...then quantum things began to have meaning. Imagin that as students, anything beyond "Isaac Newton" is discarded...

I comprehend and accept physics because I trust well-performed science & experiments (but I am still skeptical and subject any claims in physics or otherwise to scrutiny!). Quantum mechanics as a field of study would not survive if experiments proved it incorrect. I acknowledged & accepted the possibility of quantum mechanics when the evidence was provided!

shadeyinka:
PARANORMAL experiences and activities actually show that the PROBABILITY of another rhelm of existence present with us is NOT ZERO!

Please prove any paranormal experience and you get one or more of the prizes in the link above.

shadeyinka:
OK, I give it to you...but, the answer still is meaningless! Just suitable for illustrative purposes for technically the deBroglies wavelength of a Bus and a Ball are not different. At this point, we have crossed the boundaries of quantum physics

True.

shadeyinka:
Quantum mechanics came about because the Classical Mechanics could not explain some physical phenomenon. Scientists were wise enough to recognise that the Classical Physics was valid BUT there may be need to think out of the Box to solve problems the classical physics couldn't solve. I guess it takes some humility to come to terms that the well respected and Tested Classical laws are not ABSOLUTE. So also the rhelm of the Physical versus the rhelm of the Spiritual.

If Science cannot answer the questions below, then maybe there is another rhelm of knowledge in existence with rules vastly different from the physical.

This is classic "God of the gaps" apologetics. "God of the gaps" is a receding pocket of scientific ignorance that has been getting smaller and smaller since the scientific revolution started five hundred years ago (modified Neil Degrasse Tyson quote).

shadeyinka:
NDEs, MAGIC(not all are tricks), Miracles, Demonic possessions and Deliverances, Ancient Technologies cast DOUBT on the absoluteness of Classical Sciences.

Check out some of these things : I will probably send some links. With a skeptic mind judge and truely ask the question relating to PROBABILITY!

There has never been any evidence that any of what you mentioned above is any more than tricks or exploitation of psychological vulnerabilities and biases of people. If you can provide any incontrovertible and convincing evidence, you will be a rich man (see link to prizes above). The best miracle proof you can give though is the regrowing of an amputated arm; I have asked almost every theist for this unfalsifiable miracle but no dice!

shadeyinka:
Oh yes. In quantum Physics, nothing is impossible. There exist always a probabilityvof an event occurring EVEN when it defys the normal classical sense. The Spiritual is the quantum side of existence. Nothing is impossible. Quantum physics is not always verifiable in the classical state, so also the spiritual is not always verifiable in the physical state.

I think I see the analogy that you are drawing. The problem though is that both quantum and classical mechanics exist in the physical realm (and have be verified repeatedly), yet all claims of the spiritual world have never been verified.

shadeyinka:
Is it possible to demonstrate quantum physics to a lay man? My argument was that one cannot remain in the classical state and believe quantum phenomena. You cannot remain the the physical state band comprehend the spiritual.

With patience and simple illustrations, it is possible to demonstrate quantum mechanics to a lay man. Admittedly, most people (almost every physicist actually) find quantum mechanics incredible, but the incontrovertible evidence quenches doubts. Claims about the spirit world have zero evidence (and are arbitrary), in contrast.

shadeyinka:
No class teacher will ask a student to calculate the deBroglies wavelength for a bus not because it cannot be done but because the answer is meaningless. The purpose answer for the deBroglies frequency is "impossible". Is it even possible that an electromagnetic wave will exist at that wavelength.

Actually in one of my physics classes, we calculated the de Broglie wavelength of a moving baseball. The purpose of the exercise was to show that classical mechanics is a "macroscopic" approximation of quantum mechanics.

shadeyinka:
If you perform a LOGICS experiment, you will discover that before the physical, another rhelm seem to have existed. We theists will callbit the spiritual rhelm.

This claim is pseudoscience.

shadeyinka:
Usually for an Atheist "waves" the "spiritual" doesnt exist. An Atheist want to force an answer limited to the Physical...which is not possible.

Are you attempting to equate "quantum" to "spiritual" and hence religion?

shadeyinka:
Correct. Are you a Physicist? Colour doesnt exist at quantum scales. But an Atheist who doesn't understand the "quantum state" (spiritual state) will want to force an answer in terms of Black, White, Rd, Or, Yel, Grn, Blue,...An Atheist say "show me a demon, a spirit, god...and I will believe"

Yeah my area of academic specialization is very physics oriented. Hmm... one doesn't need to know jack about science to be an atheist. The term atheist is typically used to mean "lack of belief in god/gods", that's it. Also, your analogies using quantum mechanics are not particularly convincing. There is evidence for quantum mechanics but there is no evidence for the existence of gods.

shadeyinka:
Perfect answer! De Broglie Hypothesis..relations show that the wavelength is inversely proportional to the momentum of a particle. But an Atheist will ask this kind of question. "What is the wavelength of a luxurious Bus?". Forgetting that De Broglie's law work's only at atomic to sub-atomic scales. You agree with me that it is impossible to answer correctly the question without a change in frame of reference from Classical to Quantum Physics.

Actually asking about the wavelength of a luxurious bus is not a bad question. The bus actually has a De Broglie wavelength except that it is approximately zero (probably something like 10^-20 meters) and hence is approximated to exhibit classical behavior.

shadeyinka:
...but you know what, an Atheist want to remain in the "Classical rhelm" (physical rhelm) so that any answer beyond the physical is discarded. Just as there is the Quantum state in the Physical sciences, there is a Spiritual state in existence.

I still don't follow. There is no evidence for a spiritial realm, but there is evidence for quantum states.

shadeyinka:
I am happy that you seem to speak the language of Physics. So, let's slow down, forget the big grammer we learnt in school and pick logics. Let the questions below be answered.

1. Where was the law of Entropy before and when when the Big Bang occured.?

2. Where was the law of Conservation of Energy before the Big Bang occurred?

3. Explain the cause (i.e. why does it occur for atomic and sub-atomic materials?) of "the waves-particle duality of Matter"?

I hope tour answers will not violate the fundermental laws of Physics.

The correct answers prove that..

I still don't see the point of your questions.

The OP copied 100% of the post from someone else, this is plagiarism regardless of if he cited it or not.

It stops being plagiarism if the OP had written majority of the content himself/herself and only used (and cited) someone else's work for a small portion of his/her post. Unfortunately, most of the threads on the main NL page are 100% & fully stolen from other sources (citation or not).

hardbody:
An academic work that the source is acknowledged ceases being a plagiarized work Sir.

I have no way of determining though whether a vast number of popular topics on NL are copied but if they are, it behooves the copier to acknowledge the source. An original intellectual owner can sue even on things we think are so minor

A way to check for plagiarism is to copy a phrase in the post and paste it into google and then you will see the actual source.

shadeyinka:
Is an electron a wave or a particle?

Behaves like both. Wave-particle duality.

shadeyinka:
If it is a particle, what is its colour?

Color doesn't exist at quantum scales. The illusion of color is a classical phenomenon.

shadeyinka:
If it is a wave, what is its wavelength and frequency?

De Broglie Hypothesis answers this with an elegant equation.

shadeyinka:
This is the kind of questions Atheists ask. The questions above betray Ignorance Physics (due to half/elementary knowledge). To the un-intiated in Physics, the questions seem fair and logical.

Sir, slow down and like Einstein, do a logic experiment about the universe, existence, ...if you are not afraid of the truth, you will find God.

It is impossible to do a deep sea underwater research in the desert. You cannot sometimes dictate the location of your research. You cannot remain in the physical laboratory and decide to prove the spiritual.

..and don't get me wrong, I am strongly a Christian. I only feel that rubbing Jesus in your face is too drastic an action. The fundermental lesson you need is to understand that there is a software fabric that hold and rule the Physical.

I will strongly propose Jesus...but surely not at this stage.

I don't understand the intent of this post. What point are you trying to make? That science implies there must be a god and that God must be Yahweh?

hardbody:
Why did you not copy and post it yourself for the benefit of readers. You could then have cured it by acknowledging source and yet let people have the benefit of the knowledge...

Plagiarism is dishonesty. It passes off another person's work as one's own.

If the OP had included the link s/he copied it from, it would have made a difference but not a big one. A large fraction of NL front page posts are copied from another website. Even when the source is acknowledged, the problem is that the content is stolen without authorization from the author. It's one thing for the OP to create a post that is inspired from another online source, it's another thing to just copy 100% of another person's writing and paste it on Nairaland. This is stealing.

It is stealing because it robs the website that was authorized to host the content from advertising revenue.

The biggest issue with chronic plagiarism is that it is a sign of intellectual laziness, an unwillingness to think and come up with one's own ideas and writing. A copycat mentality. This attitude spills into many facets of one's life, work, and society.

It befuddles me that a vast number of popular posts on NL are completely copied from other websites. I hope @Seun does something about this before he gets sued sometime in the future.

Plagiarized post.
Here's the source: https://www.datsi.fi.upm.es/~frosal/docs/25mdq.html

Someone needs to do a study to see how many front page threads on NL are plagiarized from another website.

oglalasioux:
Thanks for your response. It shows you read my post thoroughly. I also read yours and there is nothing in it that is untrue.

First off, thanks for not responding angrily... it seems angry responses are the default tone on NL when there is disagreement. Kudos.

oglalasioux:
But do you believe in entanglement of subatomic particles? Why do you think native doctors need a piece of cloth of someone before they can charm him?

Yes subatomic particles behave in ways that make no intuitive sense, and entanglement is an example. I don't even have to believe in it for it to be true, it is a measured confirmed phenomenon. BUT this property is a quantum phenomenon (i.e. it only happens to particles that are subatomic) NOT classical-sized objects. Therefore it cannot be applied to anything native doctors do.

To give you some perspective, the radius of a Hydrogen atom (known as the Bohr radius) is 5 x 10^(-11) meters; that's two million times smaller than the width of one strand of human hair. Quantum particles are even much smaller in size than this. Quantum phenomena like tunneling or entanglement or "spooky action at a distance" don't work for objects that the nakéd eye can see directly.

oglalasioux:
I don't claim evidence of any of my assertions therefore my idea can't be science. But I'll tell you one thing; the reasons the African gods cannot die yet were helpless in defending us against diseases and the white man is because they are nothing but manipulations of the laws of physics.

This is quite a creative paragraph. It is incorrect that African gods are manipulations of the laws of physics. Religious people would consider them to be supernatural, although it is clear that these gods are powerless because they are not real and are just a figment of the human imagination.

oglalasioux:
My idea can never hold water in academics. But if you search your heart of hearts, away from trying to make me look uneducated, you'll find it dwelt on some fundamental things that have been bugging your mind since you realized you were a citizen of the universe.

Well, the idea that supernatural acts happened used to bug me especially because they supposedly violate physical laws. Now I have mental clarity and know that these supernatural claims are untrue. Most of what is claimed to be supernatural have simpler physical explanations.

I too was hoping that I wouldn't have to type up a rebuttal to the uninformed post but alas I had to type one because I didn't want other readers to keep praising the nonsense that the guy (girl?) posted.

It is indeed disheartening that some other posters think his post is intelligent even though it is instead full of misinformation that a mildly science-literate person can spot.

donnffd:
I scanned through this thread looking for a post like this just to save me the stress and time typing all this many many corrections, and the painful part of the whole matter was that people were praising him as one kind intelligent person...kia, NO HOPE FOR NIGERIANS AT ALL

I do agree that his post sounds educative because it is presented in a fancy way. However, the post is disingenuous, misleading, and mostly inaccurate.

aimuan:
the most educative post I ve ever read on nairaland.I love this post and the poster.no homo

This your post is full of both correct science and shockingly incorrect pseudoscience.

oglalasioux:
Let me give you a little insight about Schrodinger's equation.
The equation states, correctly, that the subatomic particles that makes up everything can exist in more than one place at the same time. Experiments show this is true. So scientists argue that since subatomic particles are the building blocks of everything, then what they built up can exist in the same way.

This is the only correct paragraph in your whole post.

oglalasioux:
The saliva you spitted out of your mouth is therefore still connected to you in the subatomic state. If it comes into contact with a disease, quantum mechanics prove that disease can affect you.

Classical mechanics and hence biology can be used to explain the germ theory of disease. Your attempt to use quantum mechanics here is redundant, unnecessary, and disingenuous.

oglalasioux:
Also consider telepathy. When you hear a little voice it means someone far away is talking behind your back. This also is true. How does your GSM work? Or let us use a simple wireless microphone as an instance.

Our voices (and thoughts) radiate and flow into the atmosphere at 670 million miles per hour. So when you speak, it takes a second for your voice to reach as far as the moon and it continues to travel forever in all directions of the universe. The path the voice follows is electromagnetic waves. So if I have a magnet, it can attract your voice in real time and you can hear it loud through amplifiers. That's how microphones work and interestingly your GSM.

When you make a phone call to someone in USA, it's not the phone that took your voice there. Your voice is already radiating through the universe. The phone simply sifts the voice out of trillion others because you and the person you are talking to are on the same frequency.

This post is full of both science and pseudoscience. It is indeed true that when you make an international phone call your voice is converted into electrical signals which propagate at the speed of light (typically via cell phone towers and then deep sea fiber optic cables in most cases).

However, it is completely UNTRUE that telepathy works because of this same principle; this is absolutely INCORRECT pseudoscience. You imply that telepathy works because one's voice directly propagates to the listener even if the two parties are a continent apart; this makes ZERO sense because an acoustic signal (voice) propagating through air would lose all its energy within a short distance. If I shouted your name in Nigeria and you live in America, there's NO WAY for you to know that I am calling your name because the signal would have lost ALL its energy before it even propagates one mile from you, let alone the 8,500 kilometer distance between Lagos and New York.

The "signal to noise ratio" of the acoustic energy arriving in New York from Lagos would be undetectable because it would be overwhelmed by the acoustic noise floor. Another thing is that the acoustic energy of your voice will travel at about 768 miles per hour and NOT the speed of light, which is opposite to your strange assertion that the acoustic signals from your voice would also travel at the speed of light (670 million miles per hour).

One more thing: the claim that telepathy ever works is itself búllshit. What people claim to be telepathy is merely the ability of one or two parties to be able to read and identify shared environmental or psychological cues, not via some sixth sense that violates the laws of physics. The prophets who supposedly read your mind are psychological experts who can already identify some basic information about you based on what you tell them, the way you dress, your facial expressions, and so forth. The idea that true telepathy is real is a farce.

oglalasioux:
...And shockingly, it's what our brains pick when we sleep which we know as dreams. People we call prophets and miracle workers just have the privilege of higher brain frequencies. When Einstein died, it was discovered that his brain was different. It's still in a jar at Princeton University.

Oh my goodness. This paragraph is COMPLETE PSEUDOSCIENTIFIC BÚLLSHIT. There is no evidence whatsoever that we dream because our brains pick up electromagnetic signals from the environment. A very trivial experiment that disproves this is to place someone in a very thick wireless-interference-free metal box for ten nights, it is very likely that the person will still dream at least one of the nights! (I propose a thick metal box because it would block off electromagnetic waves that are used for wireless communications).

oglalasioux:
Without messing with your belief, I must tell you that 90% of what religion do which we term miracles is actually solid science. The white people know but they won't just blow it up yet and expose religion because the existence of the state of Israel hinges on the belief that a being somewhere is controlling the universe. The contrary is the truth.

I am very shocked at the boldness of your misinformation. This is completely wrong. If "miracles" were indeed solid science, why is Nigeria still pathetically lagging in the fruits of science and technology?

Your post is extremely misleading and plain inaccurate as well as disingenuous. I would advise you to in the future not make bold & confident assertions on topics that you have very little to zero expertise in.

I see your angle, but I also feel that from reading your posting history you are a critical thinker and you have your own creative thoughts that we can learn from. It's fine to read other people's works (no man is an island) but you can synergize all you've read with your own thoughts and then express it in your own words.

In the worst case, if you have to post someone else's thoughts it is usually best to post the link you got it from and even maybe post it in italics or quotes.

Maybe I am incorrect when I say plagiarism is the norm on Nairaland, but it seems that a significant fraction of the threads that make it to front page are copy and pastes (even when they include a link to the source).

Btw, I'm an engineer too! (though I'm also into applied physics and statistics sha)

hopefulLandlord:
I'm not saying it is the best bro

But you need to understand that being trained as engineer (which I am, well by certificate) involved one going to school, dedicating time and effort, researching on and on; but atheism is pretty different, I've known more and more from internet and questions from theists and atheists alike; there's no manual so you learn as you go, even you read and agreed with the content, that's what matters to me (the message)

Now, there's a very thin line between research and plagiarism, so thin that one can barely differentiate them these days, it happens every time, and its not the norm on Nairaland, its the norm almost everywhere on the internet

Lol. Yes it does matter big time. But yeah I am not willing to argue it because it is pretty cut and dry.
I explained why it matters a couple of posts ago.

There are other reasons why it matters though: it is a reflection of our society in a way. Plagiarism seems to almost be the norm amongst Nigerian graduates, and this trait seeps into every fabric of our society. An engineer who is a chronic plagiarist is likely to be a lazy thinker, leading to him/her not being able to create developments that are customized enough to his/her context. A writer who is a chronic plagiarist is likely to not reach his/her potential because plagiarism stifles his/her willingness to put thought to paper creatively. A teacher who is a chronic plagiarist would have a compromised ability to understand and explain concepts because he/she may be unwilling to think through things deeply enough to put thoughts to paper. ETC

Plagiarism is close to the norm on Nairaland.

The more plagiarism exists in a society, the fewer the new ideas the society will generate.

hopefulLandlord:
What does it matter? The thread itself was plagiarised. Are we going to argue this?

@cloudgoddess, this is an insightful post and I personally identify with most if not all of it.
You are an incredibly bright young woman.

If you had read my posts in the thread you are probably referring to, you would have realized that I defended all my claims. But then I also stand by my decision to not engage you in back and forths because it is a sheer waste of time.

KingEbukaNaija:
You are the one that made claims that you didn't defend on that thread even after I asked you several times to defend your claims . You told lies about religion and even claimed the religion deters you from thinking .

I think our threads against atheism have disconcerted the atheists and they can no longer dissimulate their feelings about this new development rather they chose to moan , concoct false stories against Christianity and ridicule their own misconceptions .

I deal with facts bro . Raw facts . I'm yet to see any atheists confute the facts we - winner01 and I- present . Oh wait ! Facts are irrefutable . Oops !

I don't post as frequently on NL, plus I avoid getting in back and forths with you in particular because I feel you don't respond to the points raised and you majorly just troll the counterparty. For this reason I've felt it has been a waste of my time to engage you. No offense intended. I feel that we can have more constructive conversations on this religion section only if we can be intellectually honest in our debates and address each other's points without going full ad-hominem as the default mode. We don't have to end up agreeing with each other in order to have sane debates. Cheers bro.

KingEbukaNaija:
First time you'll ever agree with me ? We don't really have discussions about anything . I have lots with dalaman and weah96 . I only remember you confronting me for showing belligerence .

Anyway , it is netiquette to state your source and he didn't . I expected his own view on morality as an atheist and not someone else's . I was disappointed though .

I would also like to add that a large fraction of @winner01's posts are copy and paste. It is pretty shameful that you can't make your own arguments and have to rely on copy and paste to make your points. Excessively relying on copy and paste is a sign of laziness; it is also a sign that you haven't developed your own complex thoughts on the issue at hand. That you post the link to your source does not justify your excessive use of "copy and paste". I can't take you seriously if the "thoughts" in your main posts are not yours.

Another problem with excessive "copy and paste" is the legal and financial angle. This action compromises the legitimacy of Nairaland because once the level of "copy and paste" on this site reaches a certain threshold, there will be lawsuits suing @Seun and @Nairaland for hosting and enabling this sort of behavior. Plagiarizing other people's writings means that the websites that host these original contents lose the advertising revenue that they would have gained if you didn't consistently steal their contents. (There probably aren't lawsuits or "cease and desist letters" yet because Nigeria is not really a country of laws so the foreign owners of these websites aren't willing to go through the pain of the Nigerian justice system.)

A better thing to do is to write your own posts in your own words and periodically reference other websites (your source) when needed. I understand that no one is an island and we all need to read other people's works, but this doesn't justify not being able to author your own unique thoughts and content.

@winner01, please take this a constructive criticism. This is not meant to attack you. Cheers.