₦airaland Forum

Agbalowomeri:
You do not understand my premise

Foreigners brought religions with lots of lies and manipulation. Naija religious leaders took over with prosperity gospel, still promising hope of wealth "if you pay your tithe diligently". Religion sells hope. However, the proponents of this "hope" do not belief in what they preach. They only use it to swindle the gullible. Don't see it as an attack on your faith

Same scenario with Oando. Wale has been selling hope for over a decade while fleecing the company

‎Then blame the so called pastors and religious leaders na. Nobody denies that their dealings can be terrible.
‎
‎Even if 99% of them are guilty of one fault or the other, the guilt is solely on them not the faith.
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‎Some of us will do our bit to correct the anomaly.
‎
‎I will pastor a church one day where we never collect any form of offering. Like no offering time ever. And any inflows and outflows to church accounts will be made publicly available in downlable bank statements.
‎
‎So that folks can see that money isn't at all the essence of church.
‎
‎Then as for foreigners bringing religion, yes that's true, but even before they came, and till now, folks here believed in the metaphysical based on their own experiences.
‎
‎Also the foreigners brought other things like internal combustion engines and the idea of proper sanitation leading to better health. But it was up to us to try all those and make our own judgements, if people got more horsepowers from their donkeys, they wouldn't have adopted internal combustion engines, if proper sanitation did more harm to them, they would have ditched it, and likewise if sango or amadioha helps anyone better, then let him stick with it. We're not idiots that just merely adopted what they brought without trying and drawing our own conclusions.
‎
‎You can recommend a restaurant to me, but only the value I get there would determine whether I continue spending my money there.

presiade:
What are you smoking these days? Did you change your plug? It seems this supply is to heavy for your brain to handle.

How does this solve your fundamental issue of foo*lish*ness??

presiade:
At the bolded, because we haven’t gotten proof that (carbon-based) life exists on other planets is not a confirmation that life exists only on our planet. As exploration continues in our vast universe (with sextillions of planets), the possibility is open.

Then you people should shut the f*ck up till you find your non existent proof.

Agbalowomeri:
Hope is a powerful too

Wonder why/how some people waiste (abi waste ) their lives on the hope of a heaven in the afterlife

How does having a belief amount to a waste?
This isn't at all logical.

A belief or lack thereof doesn't cost any of life's essences. It's a matter of choice, and for a lot of us, the choice is well founded.

If you showed me proof of alien life of even simply successfully synthesize properly folding proteins from a random chemical reaction, then maybe the alternative explanation of life would have basis.

There are trillions of planets out there, only a fool would believe life happened by accident and Earth conveniently happens to be the only instance whereas there statistically should be over a billion alien worlds.

Trying to mention waste in relation to belief here is completely illogical.

Oasisblue:
Atlass platform is down, or is this only from my end?

The issue is probably local to you.

Raider76:
Ok. Then I really can't see what objective will be achieved by giving 1 share to someone who held 10 shares and 1 share to the one who held 1m shares. We shall see.

Have you wondered why the program is indeed named Retail investors incentive program?

It's not meant to incentivise deep pocket holders.

Raider76:
Since we are guessing, let me throw my hat in. The intention is to slow share sales after listing so as to reduce volatility immediately after listing. The 1 for 10 is because the minimum shares everyone must have is 10. It will be futile to expect someone with 50,000 shares to hold for a whole year in return for only 1 bonus share. So it must be a 1 for 10 bonus. The condition must also be that if you sell even one share you are disqualified. Otherwise it defeats the purpose.

You're the only one guessing. The prospectus is written in plain English, take 2 minutes to read it or ask AI to help you interprete. It's on page 65 Ask as many questions as you want from the AI to clear your doubts.

ghm:
No. If you sell and your holding falls below 10 shares, you lose eligibility for the bonus share. You must hold at least 10 shares continuously for the period.

If you buy 10 or 100 or 10,000 or 1 million, you still only get one bonus share after year one and one after year two – capped at two shares total.

The incentive is not impressive. It only makes sense for people buying the minimum 10 shares. If you're buying more than 20, just ignore it completely and run your own portfolio – buy, sell, or hold on your terms. IMO

why did you answer "no"? even though you gave the correct explanation. His question is based of if he holds 10 shares.

WhizdomXX:
So if one buys 100 but sells 90 later on and holds 10 for two years, he gets it?

yes

SonofElElyonRet:
I guess the J actually stands for juvenile..
Why the rant?
O well

Just make sure to double check information next time before you post on public forums.

And if you do make mistakes, accept correction without necessarily displaying your frustrations.

emmanuelewumi:
What happened to Aradel and Seplat when they were initially listed.

Dangote Refinery shares will also come down to N300, after that it will climb to N400 and then stabilize

Remember Otedola and his ways though.
Let people put account for that possibility as they make their projections. Sometimes sentiments aren't rational.

SonofElElyonRet:
Nasty J
Haven't you had enough of the ad hominems?

You do realize that name calling doesn't automatically solve your problem right?

Your core issue is that you're either too stubborn to read or too d***m*b to comprehend.

Name calling doesn't help you with either of those.

Plus when you make d***um*b investment decisions based on your foo***l:sh...ness, it's only your portfolio that suffers it. Name calling won't pull you out of losses, having se:n*se would.

SonofElElyonRet:
Okay "Numbsome J"
You should've noticed that I changed my position to admitting to the possibility that I was wrong and told you to hold dangote responsible for my initial position.. further "evidence" adduced have since made me drop my earlier position.. good morning

Next time, take corrections with maturuty rather than this sort of sheer frustration, I'm not responsible for your ignorance, I only helped educate it.

SonofElElyonRet:
You are mundane not awesome. And the J probably stands for joke of the century...
You would blame me for believing what I heard dangote himself say right? I now concede I was wrong thanks to reasonable refined people who pointed it out. I did not concoct the statement. Blame Dangote, Awesome Jester

No, I blame you for being too stubborn to read. Cos I clearly showed you the section in the prospectus, but you preferred to advertise your folly.

SonofElElyonRet:
1. Doubting Thomas isn't name calling
2. You are overly sensitive
3. Nairametrics reported it, posted a video in which dangote stated it
4. If quoting dangote is spreading false news then hold dangote responsible since you know more than dangote and vetiva the lead advisers
5. Did you even bother to watch the video that nairametrics posted?
6. Your aggression is uncalled for
7. Didn't ask you to believe or not believe me since I didn't originate the news.. you may choose to doubt or believe dangote. Your choice
8. Selah
9. Shalom

Buy on your false information and share evidence of your illusionary bonus when you get it in your imaginary world.

I wonder why reading is plain English is this hard for you.

emmanuelewumi:
Not sustainable. Margin will come down whenever we have peace in the middle east

This may not necessarily be true.

Cos the petrochemicals business has better margins, they might have ramped that up significantly before things normalize in the oil markets.

Also H1 results were only helped by 4 months of the war not the entire 6 months. H2 will also get at least 4 months of elevated oil prices, cos the market likely won't normalize by next month. So FY '26 should at least be 2x what they reported in H1.

Their biggest win in my opinion is breaking into advanced markets and pulling strong demands from all those geographies.

That's just me adding a perspective, I've never dealt in the primary market, my own is to help the stock's liquidity once they list and I love it like that.

SonofElElyonRet:
Mr doubting Thomas, I just heard dangote quote vetiva boss (lead advisers) in a video that there'll be bonus of 1 for every 10. Nairametrics carried the story as such..
Go fact check ...
▶️ Watch Aliko Dangote explain why investors who hold their shares for one year will get 1 bonus share for every 10 held, and why he believes the IPO could be fully oversubscribed.

Why the name calling?
Who are you that I should believe or doubt whatever you say?

Part of my contributions here is to correct misinformation that folks like you peddle.

I believe you can read simple English clauses.

I also believe you know which statement hold water in the court of law between what's in the official prospectus and whatever else you hear from whomever

SonofElElyonRet:
Has said he'll give 1 for 10 scrip within 2 years of listing

It's not 1 for 10. It's 1 bonus share regardless of the volume you hold from 10 and above.

1 bonus share for 12-month holding
A second bonus share if you continue holding for a total of 24 months.

So whether you hold 10 or 10,000, you get 1 share bonus so long you're a retail investor.


You saying 1 for 10 would make someone holding 10,000 units expect a bonus of 1000 shares, that's wrong, such a person only gets 1 share.

jonnysessy:
Good evening everyone, I have a sister abroad and she knows am into stock investment. While she was in Nigeria she was not interested in stocks. But, i am surprised she interested in this Dangote IPO. In fact, she said i should use my daughter's name and buy for her. This was because i told her she needs to register with a stockbroker and would have BVN, NIN, clearing house number and CSCS number. I know in the past people had used multiple identity to buy IPO for fear of over-subscription and they eventually lost their shares. I also what to avoid issues of shares transfer. You need to visit the Registrars those days in Lagos when you have issues with your shares. The thing used to be very stressful. I guess such bottlenecks no longer exists as electronic media and digital age had improved the way we share business is being conducted.

I hope am not digressing too much, my question is how can my sister abroad be able to take part in this Dangote Refinery IPO herself. I don't want to use my daughter's name to buy for her. Moreso my daughters are not even having BVN (which i feel is one of the requirement). I also like to maintain my integrity with her, i don't want the buying of shares to bring issues between us. Please the gurus in the house should help a brother.

There are 4 full weeks till it closes. That's enough time for her to get the regular BVN or diaspora BVN, whichever one is easier for her.


Also the stock will be available to buy from November, people should not see it as if you miss IPO, you're never getting in. The stock is indeed listing, so that's a backup option.

The only risk with the second option is Otedola. He might have some cash to burn and push the price to unrealistic levels.

Agbalowomeri:
Oga you wan borrow trillions
We are not slashing anything for you

Before nko? Since you've gone to park inside fixed income, what would you advocate for?

I'm just speaking on what's healthy for the economy, at this point what Cardoso is doing with this prolonged elevated rates is probably worse than the ways and means printing they complained about.


Imagine a company growing earnings at just 10% per annum but is fond of always doing a 1 for 3 bonus every year, whereas their ccounterpart with comparable assets and earnings only always does 1 for 20 bonus.


At the end of 5 years, it's not rocket science to know which of the share would trade a a steep discount.

GeneralDae:
Yes but the question is where is the flow of the 10 trillion as opposed to the 20 trillion? The 20 trillion would likely stay in OMO bills and NTB to keep earning that 20% as the people who do these investments now are incentivised to hold it there due to high yields. The 10 trillion would likely chase USD because the real rates of having USD would give more returns.

Where is stays isn't the point here, the point is whether the money supply grows or not? And now we've established a higher rate grows it faster.

If you simply plan to keep mopping up, you're just delaying the inevitable while ultimately ballooning your cost of money management to unsustainable levels.

Imagine two central banks starting with a base N100trn money supply, one decided on a 12% rate, the other does 26% and plans to keep rolling over mop ups, run the numbers to see the reality in 10 years:

The healthy bank has N310trn in money supply, while the other has an economy crumbling 1 quadrillion naira.

If the reserves were at $60bn in 10 years, N310trn would price the currency at N5166 to the dollar, while the latter would have be at N16,700.


Remember the FPIs you keep rolling over aren't bound by any contract to hold their funds with you perpetually.

If at a point they decide to pull out of your country, they hold N150trn instead of what could have been N70trn, there just would inevitably be much more naira than you have dollars for.

Then as for more the more credit angle, you're right.

Cos in a fixed period of time, interest is equally a function of principal as it is of rates

1. However if rates get slashed by 50%, Principal would have to grow by 100% to yield the same level of interest

2. Slashing rates by 50% is something that can happen within 6 months if the CBN means business, but growing credit by 100% would take many years. Cos for instance, there are people and even businesses who wouldn't automatically take loan just cause it's now priced at 15% instead of 30% , they simply won't take it cos they have no need for it.

3. If the banks due their due diligence and are able to indeed grow credit by 100%, a significant chunk of that would have translated to more manufacturing plants and more businesses and job creation which is a delight for the economy.

4. Portions of finance cost savings for businesses would either get directly passed to their customers or shareholders in terms of higher net earnings and dividends.


5. Finally how many developed economy with valuable currency do you know with rates above 5% talk less of 10% or this outrageous 28% effective? Even in africa, I think only Zimbabwe had a higher rate, and now they might even be dropping theirs below ours cos nice things were recently reported about their inflation numbers.

Like what exactly are they thinking to be doing 26.5% at this point, you want to keep FPIs happy with juicy yields but do you really need them that much anymore with a $54bn buffer? Why not begin normalizing?

Even Emefiele, after his elevated yields from 2017 through 2019, he started tapering eventually, only that 1. He overdid it by taking yields below 1% like below even 0.5% at some point 2. Covid with negative oil price then added salt to his injury.

GeneralDae:
I understand your point but like I said the last time we had this debate, I still don’t understand how slashing interest rate reduces money supply, if anything there would be credit expansion and a higher demand from the private sector competing with Government borrowing from the local market.
I would agree with you that we can begin to cut it down, I just want to understand this part of your premise.

If you have a N100 trn domestic debt volume.

You could price it at 10% and create new N10trn in interest payments or you could price it at 20% and instead create N20trn in new money.

Same dilution happens with OMO mop ups as well as private sector credit. A higher interest rate translates directly into more naira getting printed.

I hope I communicated this well.

It's time for Cardoso and his team to seriously start considering a steep cut in the MPR.

There really isn't any rational keeping it at 1000bps above inflation at this point.


I imagine cost of OMO issuances on their balance sheet alone to already exceed N2trn per annum, not to mention the huge cost of domestic government debt due to this their persistent elevated rates.


The biggest downside I've always mentioned is the dilution of the money supply which is now approaching N140trn if not already above that.


I hope they begin to see reason at this next meeting and start with at least a cut, no matter how little.

It would be healthy for the economy and for our market as well.

If not, naira might just be sitting on another delayed explosion, cos money supply would grow faster than the reserves ever could especially if things ease up in Iran.

mikeapollo:
Misplaced, irrelevant digression and analogy.
What we are discussing is about whether govt is collecting revenue enough and adequate to take care of governance responsibilities with the inefficiencies (waste, corruption) in the system.
The inefficiencies are not going away soon.
So tell us how reducing govt revenue (hypothetically from N100 to N70) would enable govt build more schools, roads, hospitals, pay slaries etc.

This is not about an entity in the private sector which may even decide to liquidate and wind up

At this point, you're no longer worth a response, you're just taking up valuable space on the thread with your cyclical incoherent back and forths.

mikeapollo:
Na wa oo!
Okay, I agree the main issue is inefficiency in utilization of funds!
Will the "inefficiency" be resolved or eliminated when the funds (hypothetically) is refuced from N100 to N70?
If the inefficiency, (wastage, corruption etc) would still be there, then why or how would you think that the lower amount (N70) will be enough to fix roads, schools, etc where N100 was never enough?

Your idea is to scale up the failure??

You have a company. They did a RI at N70 per share.

6 months later, their results are out? Losses doubled, administrative expenses quadrupled, balance sheet shrank 50%. The market reacts and your portfolio bleeds 60% on the stock.

Then they announce another RI plan at N100 per share, shebi you will gladly take up your rights with them cos you like to argue 😁

mikeapollo:
Someone receives N100 and he is unable to fix roads, schools, hospitals etc.
Now, the same person is expected to receive N70 and give N30 to others (called shareholders). Do you now expect him to be able to take care of the same (or even more) roads, schools, hospitals etc with N70?

Wish you good luck!

This thing isn't rocket science.

Why not explain why that person who is unable to do much with the N100 they currently receive is adjudged as being efficient by you??

Cos I clearly stated that the issue here is effective utilization, but you seem to like arguments.

mikeapollo:
Even when the govt alone is collecting 100% of all these revenues, taxes, royalties etc, the roads, hospitals, schools etc are bad.
Now you want to give part of the funds to other ''shareholders''

Govt is busy borrowing because of ''inadequate funds'', but here you are, saying the issue is ''efficient utilization of funds''!
We like speaking grammar with terminologies in this country, just to twist narratives and support our position!

Your opinion is that borrowing more money is proof that they're utilizing their revenue efficiently??

You seem to like making statements that contradict yourself.

It's not hard to see that if the funds they currently get were efficiently utilized, they won't need to borrow at least not as much, why you think otherwise is strange.

megawealth01:
3 reasons why I'm not buying Dangote refinery IPO.

1. Money does not make noise.
2. Wealth does not invite you to 'join us.'
3. [b]The people who will make money in the short term are those who bough[/b]t private placement. This is not financial advice

© Praise George

And traders of course 😎

mikeapollo:
Okay ooo. Imagine NNPC getting listed and HNI like Otedola, Elumelu, etc buys like 50%-70%+ of the shares. And they collect billions of naira as dividends every year with most roads, schools, hospitals in Nigeria still bad!

Again, if they collect 70%, it only reduces the profit portion of FG's income from NNPCL, It doesn't at all reduce the taxes and Royalties, if anything it will likely increase those cos the entity will have significantly bigger operations.

Then out of the 70%, the government still gets 10% minimum as taxes when those billionaires take the profit.

Ultimately, the issue with Schools, hospitals and roads won't be availability of funds but largely efficient utilization of funds.

And this is not just theory, cos you and I know that US which is the largest producer of crude and produces over 12 times what we produce has no NNPCL equivalent, but their schools and hospitals aren't on the same level as Nigeria's.


This is not to mention that in reality, elumelu and otedola can't raise the liquidity to by 30% of NNPCL talk less of 70%.

Where do you think the 10 richest Nigerians outside Alhaji and RABIU would get $50bn combined?

What is there's no Yari to buy another overpriced Otedola's stake, isn't his asset mostly just paper valuation?

Fbn isn't really worth 5x accesscorp na.