₦airaland Forum

NGN broke the 1480 resistance today closing at 1476.35.

We await strengthening below the 1450 level in the coming days.

Q4 is shaping up to be sweet!

jonnysessy:
Today's market is just too dull. We are almost at the end of the month and also almost at the last day of the Q3, yet there was no significant changes in the market. I was expecting reshuffling of portfolios and end of month window dressing. But, can't see any of these. Maybe, by tomorrow the market will live up to expectation.

I was up 1.83% today.

1.83% of my entire portfolio 😁😁

KarlTom:
Can we really avoid it? 🤔

CBT is one part, PIT is another one which most seem to overlook.

e.g. the dividends accrued over 12months will be used for PIT...

Welcome back KarlTom.
How was Seychelles?

GeneralDae:
Yeah most big players would likely reinvest and that’s the aim actually.

Yes sir.

Agbalowomeri:
Seems we won't escape bears towards year end with this tax issues

Most players aren't just gonna exit na, so we should be good.

Even ACA, If they plug the proceeds back to FIDELITY or SEPLAT, Their gains won't be tax chargeable.

Hedgefunds:
This is wrong. kindly use chatgpt.. Only WHT TAX IS DEDUCTED AT SOURCE WHICH IS NOT NEW.
No source deduction . You file Annually .
Even USA don't deduct at source .

Please o, in that post you quoted, where did he talk about deductions?

He only talked about FIRS being copied na.

I think we shouldn't create arguments when they aren't warranted.

Yemy3m:
.. fllw on utube ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueynd-F0zWA

Thanks for sharing.
It was really awesome.

I've liked that man since his time at PwC.

And I agree with him:
If you're on 800k annual salary and you "accumulate" a family of 6, you certainly have a personal problem 😁😁😁

By the way, there's really no such thing as CGT any more under the new tax law.

The CGT law has been repealed, and CGT is now reckoned as PIT for individuals and CIT for companies.

ACA's 24bn investment in ARADEL was exited at about N400bn. About N370bn gains will be taxed at 10%
(37bn)

If they had waited 4 more months the rate would have been 30% (N111bn)

crownprince2017:
My question is

At what point will government tax an investor? Will you be taxed immediately you banked the cash or they will wait for you to submit your tax returns.

From what I heard from Mr Taiwo a while back on Channels TV:
they will wait for you to submit your tax returns

emmanuelewumi:
I thought one would pay CGT if the profit cashed out was N10 million and above

I don't think so sir.
But maybe there are lawyers in the house that can clarify.

Based on the statements of the law, the N10m clause applies to the overall profit not the just portion cashed.

But your strategy already reduces the tax burden quite significantly. (Less than 1%)

emmanuelewumi:
If you got a loan of N100 million to buy shares and then sold the shares within a year from N200 million.

Then used N130 million to liquidate the loan, thereby making a profit of N70 million.

If you reinvested N65 million to buy more shares and then cashed out N5 million, you are not going to pay CGT

I think so.
The only issue is that the sales proceeds are N200m and your profits are N70m both of these violate clause 1.

If you choose to now settle for clause 2, you would pay tax on the N5m .
First 800k -> #0
Next 2.2m at 15% = 330k
Last 2m at 18% = 360k

Total taxes due = 690k
Actual profit = N70m.

Effective tax rate = 690k ÷ (70m) × 100% = 0.985% (less than 1%)

Showing another classic example of how the rich pay a significantly lower effective tax rate than the middle class.


Much better than the 25% folks here have been fearing 😁😁😁

What if you didn't reinvest the N65m, that would be a different story.

If you have the gazette, it's on page 32 or page A418!


This is super exciting!

For whatever reasons NGX didn't stream the session with Mr Taiwo yesterday.

However, I have good news:

Straight from the official gazette:


1. Our loots are never taxable as long as we reinvest, only the univested portions are chargeable gains.
That's the part relevant to me 😁😁😁


2. The 150m and N10m gains thresholds are there too.

Seun:
Lift him up higher
Lift him up higher
My Lord is good, I will lift him up higher.
everywhere I go, I will lift him up higher.

---

Abraham's blessings am I (2x)
I am blessed in the morning,
I am blessed in the evening,
Abraham's blessings am I.

---

Take glory father,
take glory son,
take glory holyghost,
I am born again.

---
Lifted, I am lifted, I am lifted, by your grace.
Out of sin and sorrow into the presence of the Lord

Isn't it "Abraham's blessings are mine"?
That fits the context better?

emmanuelewumi:
Maximum income tax is 25%.

yeah, but you don't use the "maximum income tax" in this sort of analysis. You use the average.
The amount involved needs to be higher than 50m before you even use 25% at all, and even then the effective tax rate still isn't 25%

Odunharry:
Chief, Holla if you need more or attractive FD rate. Renmoney

Sure thing.
Will do in the morning.

chimex38:
Please who audits, gives or issues credit report?
Deposit money banks of one's account or official specialised agencies?

There are credit bureaus like CRC.
Banks may also have their internal algorithms.

emmanuelewumi:
Why getting loans from Renmoney and Oxygen X, when you can get cheaper loans from United Capital and Orange One Finance

3.5% interest per month is crazy

It's cos those ones just give based on credit report and bank account cash flow. No security required at all. Simple and fast.

United capital wanted me to move to their brokers, but paying 1% brokerage fees would even cost me more. Like extra 0.5% on N300m monthly trades is extra 1.5m in brokerage fees.


Anyways, the whole loan situation was due to a heavy real estate project that drained my liquidity, I have cut them way down now since my liquidity has improved significantly.


But if I see a 5% monthly offer, I'll certainly still take it. Cos I need to hit 0.2% of all retail trades soon 😁😁😁.

I love the market like that.

We've actually talked about this loan vs tax situation in the past.

The maths is straight forward: the cost of the loan needs to be lower than the potential tax rate for it to make sense. The lower cost is the attraction.


In advanced economies, loans are priced below 5% while taxes are often above 20% so there's a 15+% positive spread in favour of debt.


In Nigeria, prime lending is above 30%, when you add 1% management fees and other sundry fees, it could be nearing 32%

I have personally paid 156% annualized this year with Oxygen X, and I still even pay over 80% with Renmoney (long story)

So prime lending at 32% , average effective tax rate at about 22% implies a 10% negative spread against loans. So taking loans is worse here!

That's just the simple maths.


Except they've changed the meaning of "greater than", "less than" 😁😁😁

emmanuelewumi:
Hope keh, might decide to buy at the right time when it might be a carcass

😁😁
As long as I can exit at 500+

megawealth01:
Abeg if you see any seller let me know even if na CROSS DEAL

Okay. But only deep pockets know other deep pockets. My pocket isn't that deep yet.

Mention Agba.

mikeapollo:
He said Lafarge has been repatriating money from Nigeria to France for over 60 years. So telll me how that was possible if Lafarge came into Nigeria 25 years ago.
It is better he says Lafarge has been repatriating money since they came into Nigeria 25 years ago, not 60years. That is my point

Your point is valid 💯💯
It just wasn't in context.

Streetinvestor2:
So u follow the people way place that permanent offer below 600 every day.It was not like that in the past..lo

576 everyday for the past 2 weeks or so 😁😁😁

But while it was liquid too, I enjoyed the movements, so I can't complain.

megawealth01:
Sacrifice keh? I'm buying sir

I know 😁😁

But still if e no gree close higher, you won't find volume to buy na.

It'll just stay stuck on full bid.

You or someone else need to sacrifice to sell at 1.66, then again at 1.82 like so, like so.

Then at N3+, it will trade more freely.

sterlingD:
Has your stockbroker settled or onboarded you unto NASD ?l no understand the English wey my stockbroker dey talk.l have some small units of the stock.

I'm referring to TOTAL.
you seem to be talking about a different stock.
Maybe MRS?
I don't have MRS.

megawealth01:
💯

I wanted someone else to announce the goodness...

All UNITY BANK haters because MEGAWEALTH01 is heavily loaded in it are silently SILENT

My sweet Jesus 😍

Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉

I thought you would need to sacrifice 200k by selling at a discount to make it close higher.

But as @mcy pointed out, it's a CSCS issue that's delaying trades.

mikeapollo:
All what you typed above are irrelevant to the matter in contention.

I referred to your comment that Lafarge was mostly repatriating money to France in over 60 years that they had been in Nigeria instead of investing in Nigeria.
And my point is, you cannot say they have been in Nigeria for 60 years because Lafarge only acquired WAPCO in 2001, which is just about 25 years ago, and they could only repatriate money from Nigeria to France after that acquisition.
There was no French (Lafarge) ownership in WAPCO in 1959-2000 so they could not have repatriated money to France during that time.

His core point wasn't to establish when lafarge started repatriating money. That was not the substance of his argument.

His point is that Lafarge(as well as some other foreign companies) preferred to repatriate profit rather to build capacity here like the locals did.

The timeline of when that happened is secondary.

emmanuelewumi:
I have a feeling that Total Energy might later exit the down stream sector and the business will be bought by MRS.

MRS is Dangote's cousin and a major player in the downstream one of the few players to align with Dangote Refinery

Meaning there's hope for those of us stuck with the stock 😁

Let MRS pay us 700.

yMcy56:
Full bid, no single drop yet....
The rejected stone....

If na you, would you sell?? 😁😁
Good thing is it only needs a 200k sacrifice per day to move up. Mega can easily sacrifice that.

Unlike Airtel. Nobody's willing to forgo 200m.