₦airaland Forum

buzugee:
my friend you are swimming in shallow waters. when you take off the training wheels on your bicycle ? come see me. when you take off your training bra ? come see me. till then ? take this pacifier and suck on it till mummy comes home to change your diapers

Not everyone is still sucking his momma's [i]b[/i]reas[i]t[/i]s at the age of 50 like you . . . put on your pair of glasses - I ain't your elder brother.

guddsid:
tell shina to stop trying to put others down . when he sang all that garbage in the 80's the likes of victor uwaifo , onyeka and fela all knew he was singing garbage but no one tried to put him down . However 2face's songs are great and shina peters for no reason decided to hate on him . the bold words are the right words for shina peter : don't hate the unstoppable rather congratulate . . . but if you choose to hate then you'll get crushed . dem no dey stand for rail way wen train dey come . abi i lie ?

Touche . . .

Folks locked up in their self-deceit in here would never see this.

buzugee:
my self styled description of legendary status ? nah dude i didnt write the book, i am simply passing the message along. this is the worlds legendary standard.
you know the problem with all you youths in nigeria today ? your expectations are very low. you are raised in an era where everything in life from movies, music, etc has being watered down. you live in an era with no depth, this is why your expectations and standards are low. this is why you think tuface is singing good music.

You must really think you sounded smart when you went into that boring narration of what a legend is . . . you didn't.

Hehe, look at this one criticizing the "youth in Nigeria today" . . . and I guess you're an old and senile Methusela huh?? And your generation was 'watered up' . . . sorry but you don't sound like an intelligent person.

You must have Meniere disease not to appreciate good music . . . you need to listen well to 2face and see how he dumps s[/i]hi[i]t on SSP in the area of good vocal rendition.

when you grow up in an era with
1 luther vandross
2 barry white
3 fela
4 alexander o neal
5, jeffery osborne
6 majek fashek
7, yoursour ndour
8, shade adu
9, seal
10, anita baker
etc etc etc. come see me when you grow up in this era of music. until then ? your hands are too short to box with Yahweh

Hehehe, add the O’Jays, Gladys Knight, Ray Charles, etc to your list and it still doesn’t change the fact that 2face is a good singer . . . I won’t discredit EVERY young artiste of nowadays just to score a cheap point.

I’m not sure but I think that in Agege where you live, 2face’s CDs abound in the market . . . go cop some of his CDs and stop allowing Shanko Rasheed’s music to tinker with your reasoning 

ElRazur:
Are you kidding me? Attentions span of a fruit fly? Pay attention and see below

I said
You said

And I then mentioned the BBC documentary. Are you this daft?

Sometimes I wonder how you've managed to exist for so long without a brain . . .

BBC documentary shows your "data" on what majority opinion is??

You're even more s[/i]tupi[i]d than I originally thought you were.

Jesus wept. Appearing on BBC in itself means poo. Vocal slender was on BBC too you know. The difference is, this is a programme that was made to mark "Black History month" and part of BBC presentation was to present a documentary on evolution of music in Africa. Fucckkkkkkkk me. Do you not see the difference? Jesus wept, mohammed laughs! If your Artist was worthy of mention, he would have got a mention in that documentary. No? After all Tuface don dey make wave for sometime now. SMH.

Again, cognitive disabilities.

"Evolution of Music in Africa" does not translate to "Best Singers in Africa" . . .

Talking about History and you're mentioning 2face?? You must have the I.Q of your room temperature.

You are daft. He was mentioned because quite rightly he deserved so. This is history of music, get it? and his contribution to the evolution of music in nigeira is deemed worthy enough.

You're a dork.

Anyone can be mentioned as being part of a movement, an evolution, a history . . . that doesn't say much about their talent or artistry.

If you cannot remember asking for proof, then half of the things I say will go over your head. It is okay, I will come down to you level and explain it in simple words.

You need to quit walking on your head and use it for its real purpose - thinking.

All your exclamations of "Jesus wept", "Mohammed laughed", "Sango screamed" and bla bla will not add any more to your 2 weak brain cells.

Yes Shina have age against him - This is a known phenomenon. It will eventually happen to most artist at some point in their career. Especially in an environment where this is a new act all the time.

Shina have age against him?? What about 2face have weight against him?? Bloody illiterate.

Why am I not rating 2face above Fela, KSA and 'em rest?? Some demons must be gyrating in your thick head.

As for the rest of you ludicrous claim, all I said was that "Only time will tell if Tuface gets a mention about history of music in Nigeria". As to how that translate to your claims is beyond me.

Wait for that time before you come here to belch and fart.

Go back and read the post. It get tiring repeating myself. Shina - Multi instrumentalist etc. = Plenty technical abilities.

What sense does this make??

Tuface - Studio artist = Very little technical abilities.

Shush . . . he sings well live on stage.

Go get a ticket to attend a good show and stop attending every Obesere, Pasuma and Saheed Osupa concert you get to see when sitting on that fence to peep.

Jesus wept again!

Have you gone for a check-up lately?? Seriously . . .

Your problem, not mine. If KSA rates him, he must be doing something right. Deal with it.

KSA can like his dancing and dexterity at playing instruments . . . I'm talking about singing . . . are you a guinea fowl in disguise??

Once again, it went over your head. I am far from that. But I am telling you, Tuface have it easy when it comes to making a hit record compare to What Artist like Shina have to go through. And yes, I have an idea what I am talking about hence why I made reference to the music stuff.

You cannot even make a sensible sentence in English Language . . . 2face have, Shina have . . . ElRazur have a communication problem

Go attend some communication class or sumn and stop talking like a lummox.

buzugee:
a legend is someone who can withstand the 20 year test and still be relevant. like say fela, sunny ade, sir shina peters, barry white, luther vandross, ll cool j, jay z etc etc,  your music is so original that even after you are gone people will still jam it and talk about you. all these tuface and p square guys lack originality and quite frankly i think they are riding on the wave of a new crop of  young nigerians who are desperately searching for something to call their own . . . .and lastly let me say this. because this is the most important thing in music. the voice does not make the man, it is the man that makes the voice, what this means is that there are a million people out there who can sing and who can rap but what seperates the wheat from the chaff is the personality. this is the stuff that legends are made off. a strong or unique or appealing or enticing personality. it is not just enough to have a good voice. there is a reason why people like luther vandross, barry white, jay z, fela, KSA, sir shina peters, dr dre, snoop, chuck d, lenny kravitz, tupac, biggie etc etc there is a reason why they will stay in the collective consciousness of the world or their countrys forever, it is because they have presence. they have an enticing personality, their aura oozes charisma. this is 90 percent of the stuff legends are made off. the actual singing is only 10 percent of it.  
the new crop of nigerian musicians lack that presence or personality. they all look like they are manufactured in a cookie cutter establishment.

This your self-styled definition of a legend gives me a feverish bout of laughter . . .

Well, I agree with some part - longevity, etc . . . but what about impact/legacy?? I honestly don't see the substance in SSP's songs to make me label him a "legend".

the only person with even an iota of personality will be ikechukwu

Hehehe, did you hear yourself say that??

patrotism is being whipped into nigerians by people like fela durotoye and as a result, home grown musicians are starting to rise from this new wave of patriotism. but i am afraid this is a fad and it will vanish soon enough. what is also promoting this patriotism is that currently the american music scene is dead. they no longer produce world heavyweights like dr dre, snoop canine, jay z, nas, instead they produce crap like drake, souljah boy, lil wayne, gucci mane etc and as a result the people from around the world who used to look to them for their music are now looking inwards

I strongly disagree . . . Patriotism was not developed or imparted by Mr Durotoye and his colleagues in the "Motivational Speaking" industry . . . the youth of Nigeria determined themselves that they've had enough of the years of suffering, poverty, neglect, etc inflicted on them by the older generation . . . and they developed that patriotic spirit themselves . . . hence the average Nigerian youth says "I be Naija" with so much nostalgia these days.

When you also listen to the songs of a handful of artistes like 2face who make meaningful music, they boast openly about Nigeria in their songs.

actually let me change that, tuface persona is not forced, he simply does not have any persona. he has a bland personality.

He is himself . . . and your personality might enhance your performance on stage, it does nutin to your raw talent . . . MJ was excessively shy and although his personality (in your context) helped his stage performances, it did nutin to his singing abilities . . .

My point?? 2face may not be a wonderful performer but he's a good singer. Performance is one point of the game.

who talks about sir shina peters ? are you serious ? the guy is a household name in nigeria even after 40 years of playing music.

I ain't disputing that . . . I'm talking relatively . . . how often do you hear him get mentioned when compared to the frequency with which KSA, Obey, Fela and co get mentioned??

ElRazur:
You mean, I should play along with your emotions that is getting weaker and what not. Sorry, I am calling a spade, a spade. Half of your replies bears nothing to the debate at hand hence why I chopped them off. If that struck a nerve, trying making your post relevant instead of beating about the bush.

Emotions getting weaker and weaker?? Hehe, you need to cup your palms over your ears at times and hear yourself before you release some statements into a public domain . . . sorry I have nutin much to say on this bit rather than to say you and Shina Peters have one thing in common - Illiteracy and Cognitive/Communication defects  

You asked for proof. I gave you one. It was about 3 hours worth of documentary examing music evolution across Africa. When it came to Nigeria, Shina peters was mentioned as one of the people who shaped the music scene. This documentary was done last year. If Shina can get a mention, then he is doing something right. In the same way, the artist you so much put up was not given a mention. I guess that is saying something.

When did I ask for your proof??

You have a way of spewing nonsense and at the same time applauding yourself for it . . . I noticed it in the Hammer V. Jay-Z thread.

2face and a lot of other acts of the younger generation have all appeared on BBC so I wonder how that deserves the ringing of bells . . . how many times did Fela appear on BBC before he died??

And if someone is featured as a part of the history of a craft, it means he was once an active player in that craft . . . doesn't mean he's a legend . . . whatever happened to your cognitive abilities??

As to whether Tuface gets mentioned in years to come remains to be seen. In the mean time, Shina is down as one of those who contributed to the evolution of music in naija. Deal with it.

Why not wait for those years to elapse?? In one breath, you're saying people feel Shina ain't relevant cos of his age . . . in another, you don't even want to wait for 2face to get mentioned in the next decade or two . . . you're always in a hurry to nowhere.

The excellent ability to move goal-post must be an awesome one. YOu said "the issue is that whether morally or technically, he has no standi to say that to 2face."   I pointed out to you how shina have many technicalities that surpasses that of Tuface, and what did you do? Latched on to something about dexterity? Jesus wept.

Another case of mumbling soliloquys and then going ahead to applaud yourself for it . . . which technicalities surpass 2face's?? One plays instruments better, the other sings better . . . what's your point??

Many people disagree with you on this. Sunny whom you rated speaks in highly of shina (He also made reference to a style he introduced in that same documentary)

The fact that Goodluck Jonathan or KSA rate Shina highly mean nada to me . . . I have my opinion and you have yours . . . if you disagree with me, skip ma comments and move on to the next one . . . I dislike dumbass arguments.

A thing or two you may not know about me, I am into music production as a hobby and over at the music section I have posted one or two things in the past. My point? Tuface's track is heavily engineered to appeal to the autotune generation. Shina had no luxury of those in his days (apart from reverb and a bit of high, mid and low gain on Eq)

And you must think that other folks in the Music Section are geeks?? And sorry, we should all gather and celebrate ElRazur the greatest producer ever to have traversed Mother Earth??

Ok, some other things I know about you:

1. You argue blindly
2. Your communication and comprehension abilities are in the realm of zilch
3. You sound too much of a sissy when engaged in a debate

Your assertion of 2face's use of autotune has now become "he appeals to the autotune generation"?? Your words should be sold for nada in the Potosi parts of Bolivia.

[b]OMG you got me there! **Insert roll eyes here** The shock that a modern day musician writes his own material is news? Jesus fuckkking bleep me. Here allow me to break it down for you. Remember how you claim I have nothing to teach you? Here, learn this now:

Tuface's tracks are recorded in multiple takes and then combined for that "Perfect cut".

Tuface's tracks are maximum an average of 5 mins long (radio play edit)

Tuface works with the best producer out there for most of his records. In the words of Nas, but a bitchhh on a bomb beat and she will go platinum.

In comparison to Shina - His tracks are about 10-15 mins long (Hence why it is called LP Long play) and all done in one cut. Meaning, there is no room for error.

He composes the music (there is a difference between writing lyrics and actually composing music sir), write his own lyrics, he acts as a "conductor" while orchestrating the whole band, he worked with one of the least known music producer then "Dudu music" using mostly analogue stuff - Instruments fed into mixer and then a Digital audio tape.

You see, Shina did it the way people like me will respect him. Whereas, while I respect Tuface too, he is however not in the same league that I place shina. [/b]

Shina's music speaks for itself.

(But I am guessing you know all of these and need nothing to learn)

Nothing up there is of any value or substance . . .

Lemme just reply all that crap with one line - Fela's songs should have been worse than Shina's, using all the parameters you used up there, but I will never, in 20 lives, compare Fela to 2face.

Now, sip a cold drink, relax, and come up with a better reply!

bababuff:
which one be Sikira Sikira?
The wordings were, "dig it right", "dig it left", oya were were kia mosa.

It was prolly the way Shina pronounced it  

buzugee:
never quite understood the whole hoopla about tuface . . . their music sucks. their persona is forced. etc etc.

I would like you to explain how 2face's music "sucks" or his persona is "forced"?? He might have baby momma issues amongst others but technically speaking, let's give credits where they're due . . . I've seen him perform live n acappella and honestly, this dude is a raw talent.

Lyrically, he also makes meaningful songs, so I dunno how his music "sucks".

and as per shina saying tuface is empty, what he prolly means is that their is no depth to tuface. an analogy will be chuck d or rakim saying that souljah boy is empty.
 or celine dion saying that britney spears is empty.

No depth?? He might have appeared in an era when digital music is the order of the day, but can you blame him?? There's a time and a chance to everyone and everything . . . and even with the fact that he's going digital like everyone else, why does he stand out amongst his peers??

SSP can never be the equivalent of Chuck D or Rakim here . . . and 2face ain't no Soulja Boy . . . how does SSP tower above 2face in "lyrical substance" or even technically speaking?? They both belong to different eras and if you wanna blame 2face for going digital, blame the era and not the artiste.

one is a legend, that was a superstar when people actually played real music with instruments, the other is a star in the era of computer manufactured music. big difference

Pray, tell me what it takes to be called a legend??

Who talks about Shina Peters these days?? On the other hand, folks still talk about KSA, Obey (even years after relinquishing his secular music for a pastoral calling), Orlando Owoh (though dead), Fela (also dead), IK Dairo (also dead) . . . these are folks who excelled in the area of lyrics and melody/rhythm . . . their words are like those of a sage . . . I just can't see Shina Peters on that list.

No one is disclaiming the fact that he plays instruments, I'm just saying that doesn't mean he's a better musician than 2face in the overall sense . . . one is a performing artiste/instrumentalist but not a good singer, the other is a recording artiste/good singer, though not an entertainer . . . and, SSP shouldn't be the one to point out 2face's defects - technically or morally.

mystikal:
. . . If 2face is empty, D'Banj is a bottomless pit then.

Wait till D'Banj's fans come here to dismember your joints, bones and sinews  

@Eldee

I got your message . . . my apologies mahn.

Done!

ElRazur:
I won't indulge in your weakening emotions so, pardon me if some of your replies are chopped off.

Mr ElRazur, in a debate, when will you learn to just open your mouth, speak up, shut it when you're done and wait for another chance to say more when the opportunity comes again??

The way you keep referring to "goal posts", "weak emotions", "age" and what-not in here, you cut the picture of a sissy . . . and I say that with modesty.

"History of Music in Africa" Featured on BBC three. Reference was made to Shina (This was aired last year)

What's the relevance of this bit?? The fact that Methusela was reported in the Bible as having attained millenia in age did nothing to Bible History . . . going by the reports from the Scriptures, he came, begat and left the scene . . . how does that relate with being good at a craft??

Have 2face and a lot of other Nigerian acts not appeared on BBC or even CNN??

You are just going round. The point is anyone who can play instrument will know that it requires dexterity and a technical mind. Shina had all of those, and to now claim Tuface is more technical with little substance to back it up other than "watch him tear the roof up" is a joke.

Relax, breathe easy and understand what I said - I've never criticized SSP's dexterity on instruments here . . . I only said he ain't a good singer.

In the field of singing . . . in vocal renditions generally, 2face beats him hands down, legs up, belly flat . . . insert the rest  

Shina is proficient at playing Keyboard - Not touch play like you have in a music studio. He plays a leading guitarist with his band - This requires very good ears and coordination abilities. etc (All of these are technical attributes)

So does Carlos Santana . . . but technically speaking, I doubt that Santana will ever come out to say "Chris Brown is empty" . . .

With all due respect. Tuface is rarely an Entertainer, but I will group him as such. Shina on the other hand Sings well. He was singing from a young age following the likes of Prince Segun Adewale (If this goes over your head, look him up. He is another legend that you probably know nothing about) and co, so he will understand a thing or two about singing than Tuface.

Agreed that 2face ain't an entertainer . . . Shina is . . . Shina ain't a good singer . . . and his entertainment value doesn't give him any edge over 2face.

And you must really think your mention of "Segun Adewale" was an excellent idea, copyrighted by you in this thread . . . you'll do well to go and read some of my comments on page 1, where I had already mentioned that name . . . forget it ElRazur, I dunno of other subjects, but if it's Music History, you ain't got nutin new to teach me.

Shina had no autotune or pitch correcting software. He sang with passion in his music etc. So yeah, FOR ME Shina is probably the better singer.

And 2face uses autotune, right?? Or you're the engineer who corrects his pitch?? Erm, I forgot that 2face doesn't sing with a passion . . .  

For a dude who churned out soulful and yet meaningful songs like "One Love", "See Me So", "True Love", "African Queen (yeah yeah Blackface composed the lyrics, what else d'you have to say??  )", etc . . . are you not forgetting stuff in a hurry??

@Chamotex

I agree with you 500% . . .

We're not only on da same page, we're on da same paragraph, column, line and dot . . .

I said it - both dudes came out good but Vec's ad libs being too much didn't cut it for me . . . also, whlist he focused on a mellifluent flow, he didn't really work on being in sync with the beat . . . Ice Prince sacrificed a mellifluous flow to be in sync with the beat, "body soul n spirit" . . .

It depends on what each listener prefers . . . for me I just liked the way Ice Prince allowed the beat, the hook, and the verses to maintain their own 'spots' - none intruded the other and the overall sound was cool.

ElRazur:
So if you think Shina ended up with a fast paced "Juju-type sound". I guess using your logic,It is fair to say ended Fela ended up with "A high tempo Jazz sound with African chants".   Please listen to early jazz to get an idea.    Again, Fela and Shina are two different artist who express their music differently in different Genre, to compare them both is like Comparing Apala with Drum and Bass style of music. Wtf man.

Holy Christus . . .

Peter tried to invent a car that walks on water . . . he did.

James also tried to invent a hydraulic material that prevents a car from getting smashed in an accident but ended up with one that only reduces the impact . . .

What is the difference between Peter and James??

Only that Majority is said to "win" the vote. All men may not have manliness, but heck I do and so are majority.

Ok, well you're free to follow your "majority" then . . . just that I even wonder who this "majority" are . . . are they your kinsmen??

You have a d[/i]ic[i]k?? You really do??  

That's good enough for me. Shina is rated by more people than one bloke on the net taking shots. I will take the view of others over yours.

Who rated him?? Forbes or what rating agency?? Well, just phucking with you man but I ask again: What data are you relying on??

Edris, to be honest is irrelevant to the debate at hand. Elvis can dance, so can Boy George, heck anyone can dance. Whether they dance well is something else. What exactly is your point?  

I don't understand this bit . . . and the main subject is not even dance . . . it's just a minor part of it.

Technically? Are you kidding me? Shina plays multi-instrument. Guitar and Keyboard being one. He makes his music and beats the hard way without the use of fruityloops and those computer generated sounds and you think Tuface is more technical? Jesus. Okay.

Give 2face the instruments and watch him tear up the roof . . . Shina might be a good instrumentalist, Abraham Laboriel, Alex Acuna and some others are - but they'll never come out to claim that they're good singers.

Figure of speech sir.

Nah . . . I'll prefer "Impediment of speech"  

Listen, it is well known that he rocked the scene at the peak of his career. It is just not true to say otherwise is my point.

Look, call it shifting post or whatever again . . . play any Shina Peters song for me and I'll dance . . . I know his songs well, from the "Ace" era to "Experience" and what-not . . . he's a good entertainer, but he ain't a good singer.

eldee:
A right to free speech means a right to spew gibberish, I can come out not and say 'BAMSYLE IS SMART' and get away with it.

Well, let me take that to mean you agree that SSP just spewed gibberish . . . so tomorrow if he comes out to say "Eldee is a dunce", he's just exercising his right of free speech . . .  

I'm not saying he was as good as Bob Marley, don't misquote me.
I've heard him live once, and he was perfect in my own opinion.

Maybe you and I listen to music differently.

So you're saying the band covered him with one tongue and then, nah, the studio covered his flaws in another??
I've not heard him sing acapella, so I can't comment on that part, but I know that there was nothing off-key bout him when he played live.

You're just "fleshing out" every bit of what I say to make up your argument . . . when I say "band", I'm referring to the fact that he played live - with a full orchestra - in a studio (doesn't have to be a rough stage recording like Fela used to do) . . . that's what they call analog recording as opposed to digital - the drums are live, the guitars, the violins, the sax, everything . . . compare that to digital where drum kits, etc are used from a keyboard . . . even fruity loops.

And how hypocritical are you, accusing me of 'lumping' SSP and Bob Marley into one category only for you to go on and mention SSP and Tony Tetuila in one breath.

I said that to show you how your theory of churning out "national anthems" and touring continents does not work here . . . of course I rate SSP above Tetuila.

SSP is no Fela or Victor Uwaifo, but coming here to call tell me he's a 'wacko' and 'makes noise' is just wrong on every level.

I'll borrow a thousand tongues to say it . . . I expect you to recognize that fine line between making 'good music' and being a pro.

You said he was all engineers and good band, and I pointed out the fact that not only does he compose and sing great music, he also plays instruments . . . now the goalpost has shifted to, it's only because he recorded his music live.

I don't know about this your 'goal post' thingy . . . abeg you and ElRazur should carry your monkey post back to where you started it - the MC Hammer/Jay-Z thread  

Abeg, drop the sentiments jare . . . SSP is one of the greats of Nigerian music, there's no question about that.

I dunno what's hard to understand here . . . some folks can play instruments (e.g D'Banj), some can dance (a la P-Square), etc . . . but when it comes to the grand scheme of things, they are not sound enough to be referred to as professionals.

ElRazur:
You are contradicting yourself. You are refusing to credit him because you do not regard him - That in itself na emotion right there jare. If you agree that all Genres over lap and duplicates idea from each other. The one can use your logic and say Fela invented "nada". After all, Fela's music was nothing but Jazz that was done to death in the 30-70s.  You see, your point is not worth the paper it is written on lol.

Dude for once be as objective as you can abeg . . . I don't have the luxury of time like Eldee had on that Hammer V. Jay-Z thread abeg  

You might be in haste to type a response but you'll do better when you read the point you're trying to counter well before you do - I said SSP tried to create a new genre but ended up with a fast-paced juju sound . . . on the other hand, someone like Fela ended up with a totally fresh sound . . . period.

I don't wanna type essays . . . Did you get that??

Check this out, Shina is widely accredited for creating a new Genre. And now some bloke on the web disagree. Lwkmd. Okay I will just go with the general notion that he created a new Genre.

You can go with what you wanna . . . and i'm going with what I want too . . . the fact that the 'general notion' says "all men have a p[/i]eni[i]s" does not make the statement right . . . it just means that 100 million folks or more are either living in ignorance or are too lazy to dig out facts.

Dude. Compare like for like. You know, apple and an apple! And not apple and a wide-screen tv. lol.  Shina can dance, sing etc. If he didn't Sunny Ade won't say good things about him.

Shina can dance and sing . . . can't Eedris "dance and sing"?? I'm tired of flogging this issue abeg.

First he's past his date, or something along those lines and now he aint a pro? Make up your mind and stop moving the goal post jare.  He may not be a pro, but jesus! In his field he was like an Einstein with his style of music.

Did i even talk about him being "past his date"?? And even if someone says he is, are they lying?? The fact that he's "past his date" or month is not the issue here . . . the issue is that whether morally or technically, he has no standi to say that to 2face.

Einstein?? With all the "7 is a number", "Ese meji l'oke" and the rest?? LWKMDFH.

Lol You are funny. Shina did all of those. You know, invented and did it well.

Well, we can laugh it off and just call it one of those things . . . but I mean every bit of what I'm saying.

rhymz:
. . . .shina Peters made that comment to stay in the news. . .

Though I ain't sure what his motive was when he spewed that trash, I also suspect so . . .

I remember clearly how dude ran to Kenny Ogungbe for help on his marketing and ish when it was evident that he was sinking . . . yet the Kennis magic touch failed to bring life to his 'weak erection' . . .

ElRazur:
No sir.

He created Afro Juju. As with most music, it comprises a fusion of one or two genre. Shina's Afro juju  is a fusion of rhythmic keyboard, Leading guitar solo, tempo beat flipping (Where he sings and then changes tempo. For example when he says "Haba" "Thomas" etc)


Remember the Good, the bad and the ugly theme? That was so mesmerizing? That was one of the defining style of Afro Juju.


There is no denying he had influence from Fela (Shina's Open and Close was a reflection of this)

Also it may be worth adding that he was the first mainstream musician of his era to actually Rap in Yoruba (Where he sings about Ese meji and a lady came and rapped a line too)


Etc.

Shina did a lot and those are just the few I can remember.


Please explain to me how he is a flop?

Every musician come and go. He held it right in his own time and still doing so - He regularly tours abroad etc. Surely, there must be a demand for him to carry out these tours. No?

Lookie, I ain't the type to disregard a real talent for any sentimental stuff . . . SSP created nada . . . he just fused stuff and even though nearly all music genres have some degree of fusion or the other, SSP's end-product was just a fast-tempo kinda juju to me . . . all the intermittent screams of "haba" and the yoruba raps were just embellishments that anyone can use.

Can you compare his 'invention' to what Fela created?? Afterall, Fela had jazz influences and samples, but he created a totally different sound altogether . . . I rate someone like Barrister above SSP by miles . . . Barrister never tried to create another genre but he took Fuji Music to new heights (mind you, he also rapped in yoruba - Fuji Garbage) . . . with a great voice and dance skills, that's what I'm talking about!

SSP might be touring millions of shows and headlining others . . . that doesn't mean he's a pro . . . Eeedris in his hey days used ta rock shows and even still does.

It ain't compulsory to "invent" any new genre . . . do what you do and do it well.

eldee:
Hehehe . . . it's called the right to free speech my brother.

The right of speech is not literally translated "the right to spew gibberish" . . . SSP just did that.

You don't need a 'good voice' to make good music. . . if it were that simple people like Fela and Bob Marley won't be music legends.

Agreed that you don't need a good voice to make good music . . . but I'm not even talking about good voice only - SSP has this constant flaw of singing off-key and transposing at random when singing - forget about his studio renditions, you need to hear him live to understand what I'm saying . . .

And how can you lump that rat with legends like Fela and Bob Marley?? I'm yet to hear any music note of Fela's that was rendered off-key, same for Marley . . . you don't need to listen to both dudes for too long to understand that their talents run deep.

He made one of the nation's anthem of the early 90s, customised speakers?? are you seriously comparing those speakers to today's autotune softwares??

Yes . . . and some other mediocre songs like Tetuila's "You Don Hit My Car", Maintain's "Blah", etc were 'national anthems' . . . anyone can make a hit song but when it comes to the grand scheme of things, we know the difference between boys and men.

People don't know the trick behind live music . . . there's an effect that live music has that digital production would never have . . . the echoes, the live drum kits, the bass guitar effect, the harmony of voices in the live band, and the list goes on . . . all these would easily cover up flaws . . . ask peops who know SSP very well, he has a horrible voice, not just hoarse n gritty but is perpetually off-key - he's got tone deafness or sumn . . . his mics n speakers are customized - peops who know him well would attest to that.

He was good at making music, I can't believe you can come out and publicly argue against that.

I'm not arguing against the fact that he makes "good music" in a context . . . Eedris, Maintain, Ayangba Boyz all make good music but are they really professionals??

This same guy, I've seen playing instruments live??
And you keep talking about bands, what next will you come out to say?? Those composers just had great 'violinists'??

Yes he plays instruments . . . that's one-tenth of the game . . . KSA plays virtually all the instruments, he's got a great voice and dance skills to match this . . . same for Fela and some other greats . . . SSP is not in that league.

Pfff, you might grin all you want . . . but I'm not one to label an artiste as good based on a handful of parameters . . . those who have ears to decipher the fine line between making noise and singing know the dilly.

Plus if KSA, Obey or some other credible act had said what SSP allegedly said, I'll not controvert it . . . it does not lie in a wacko's mouth to call another wack, simple - take it or leave it.

And to reiterate my point on how analog recordings enhance certain performances (juju n fuji benefit the most from this), have you listened to how SSP murdered "Like a Bottle" with his horrible voice and delivery?? Thank God that MI and Ice Prince saved the day . . . for a second, I thought it was Baba Sala on a track with a young generation of artistes

eldee:
SSP invented a genre . . . what more doe he need to do to be considered a legend in your books.


Yeah, Amy Winehouse is a junkie, MJ is prolly a child molester, Kels is the urinator . . . does that make em any less talented??
I don't care if he was Sergeant Roger or if he was Abacha's first born, he was good at what he did.

Which genre?? A fusion of afro[/i]beat (Fela takes the credit there) and juju (the likes of KSA, Ebenezer Obey, Dele Abiodun and even a young Micho Ade take the cake there)??

He was just trying to fuse already established genres but ended up with nada.

I ain't even talking about his character only . . . I 'ont care if he's a serial [i]r[/i]apis[i]t, music-wise he's a flop . . . and I mean that with every fibre of my being.

eldee:
It must be a problem with the way he expressed his views . . . you can fault him for not using the right words or being arrogant

Maybe . . . but whether he expressed it in Ogbomosho or Ijesha dialect is not the issue here . . . he said it and HE HAD NO RIGHT to say it.

but you can't knock this man's music skills.

Christ . . . which music skills?? He might have used a 500-man band but that doesn't add ish to his skills . . . SSP ain't a good singer by all standards - always singing off-key and has never had a refined voice . . . don't be deceived by what you hear through his customized mics/speakers . . . his engineers are his saving grace . . . have you ever heard him sing live?? Peops who know him wella would tell you how horrible he sounds.

If you do your search well, SSP started out with Segun Adewale . . . the latter was the star of the duo but SSP just got lucky . . . SSP had such a wacky voice folks said he must have used jazz . . .  

I don't know if what he's talking about is musical content, he trashes 2face on that level . . . he comes from a generation of Nigerian music where artistes used to actually make their own music, play their own instruments and tour like their lives depended on it.

His musical content?? His was the usual "shikishiki" and all the vulgar/lewd nonsense that prevailed during that era . . . technically speaking, he had good engineers and a nice band and that made up for his flaws.

Senility must be setting in on the "Grammar nor be my language" crooner . . .

I haven't read the full interview but I ain't interested either - what has Shina got to tell me?? The fact that he can't bother to speak proper English?? That he had to lick Abacha's a[/i]s[i]s to make sleazy money?? Or that he keeps sowing his wild oats all over the place??

He's long dead and forgotten and Posterity does not even have him in its good books . . .

I dunno why some artistes just don't understand the need for mutual respect . . . yeah I have a peck in my eye but you've got a log in yours - deal with it.

2face might even be a dunce but it doesn't lie in Shina's mouth to say it . . . how is he any better??

SSP shouldn't even talk when musicians of substance are gathered . . . the only music legends in Nigeria are Fela, KSA, Obey, IK Dairo . . . and I know I'm forgetting some but SSP ain't one of them.

@ElRazur/Eldee

Erm, I may not be able to comment on the many angles in which this debate has been swung . . . I haven't read many of the comments after my last post . . .

But, on the popularity angle, Hammer doesn't even come anywhere near Jay-Z . . . plus Jay-Z floors him in many aspects of the subject called Rap . . . it's a no-brainer.

They're not even to be compared . . . Hammer only existed before him and of course, was a pioneer . . . "Pioneer" in several contexts, including being the first "Showman" of Rap . . . in an era when such was a taboo to Rap Music.

ElRazur, don't mind Eldee . . . the guy just likes to bully his 'aburos' . . . he's an opportunist 

Well, you're entitled to your opinions - just that, dude seriously I find your opinion on those lines very bizarre.

To debate this thing with you sef hard . . . the kinda way you're arguing, I don't even know where to start from

Well, you ain't down with the lines, I'm cool with 'em . . . and I don't expect err'one to like what I like . . . just that in criticizing stuff, I like to hear tangible reasons . . .

Adieus mahn . . . Stay cool!

Rhymstein, as Slim noted, I suggest that you take the pains to articulate the issues you have with Ice's lines . . . for e.g. if I'm appraising a track, I'll score on parameters like Flow, Delivery, Lyrics, Rhyme Scheme, Multies, Wordplay, etc. . . Maybe then I can understand you better.

If you and I have a debate, and you have a superior argument (after furnishing me with convincing points of course), believe me I'll accept your argument . . . I don't believe that any 'enemy' here is really an enemy in real life . . . never mind all the e-nsults and bla bla, as long as you don't cut the picture of what they say you are.

Rhymstein:
i neva said ice shld be complex,has he eva been?i feel theres a misin link dat ought to v been present.i'll giv an example
am a man ryt,am supposed 2 live it,since my mama brought me out,v always bin xquisite
arent d above lines simple n well arranged wit multies,is dis too much to ask frm ice?

Help me understand what you mean here - do Ice's verses not contain "simple and well-arranged lines with multies"??

tosinaded@:
. . . Ruggedman did wrong by leakn the phonecall . . .

I have never agreed with Tosin better than this.

Things had gone awry before then quite alright but the phone call escalated the crisis.

This whole saga is one of the instances where the protagonists involved in the drama should have just kept quiet and allow the issue to play itself out naturally - if fans on both camps or even critics on neither divide are fanning flames of war and the warlords remain quiet, won't the fans n critics get tired??

The phone call thingy just took the ish to another dimension.

eldee:
I'm sorry but erm . . . did you just say intelligently and refer to Rhymstein in the same breath??
You must be Chris Rock in disguise

Are you this vile?? How can you say any human has no iota of intelligence??

But honestly, Rhymstein sef dey fall my hand . . . with what I've been seeing so far, I can't even defend him on this one.

eldee:
Joker . . . give me a link to prove this.

You dey craze . . .

Ok, paraphrased "You used to argue a lil bit more intelligently . . ."

Anyways, the most posts I've seen from Rhymstein were in the Mode 9 threads and I thot he was just ok

Rhymstein:
@yoji
u r just myopic n a bitter fan.read bamsyl analysis n tell me it wasnt forced.i jst let sleepin dogs lie.

and tell me where ice proved his lyrical prowess in wordplay n poo lyk dat consiatently.i like how straight to d point he is.he keeps it real wit him.how m.i paved d way n how he wld take it further.i like his rhyme allignment xcept dis track.

u said one weak line,i go type plenty jst now,if u misyarn

Dude what the f[/i]cu[i]k is wrong with you these days?? You used to argue more intelligently than what you spew nowadays . . .

I fail to see how you can't see a connect between "interesting" and "next thing" in Ice Prince's context . . . for the umpteenth time, Zamani wasn't tryna be a Canibus but he still made sense with that line - even on a peripheral level.

If all you wanna do here is analyze the lyrical weight in Ice Prince's every line, mucus and urine, you have a lot of work in your hands and I wish you good luck whilst you're at it. I've said it time and again and I'll say it here again - Music, even Rap, ain't always about extraterrestrial lyrics, whatever happened to Rhythm, Structure, Rhyme, Melody, Tone, Vocal Rendition . . . etc??

@Eldee,

Well I really won't say much to you than ask you to go dare Ice Cube to his face in his LA home to "stick a knife to your neck" . . . when I don't live under the same roof with someone, I refrain from saying stuff about his personal life.

Rappers are amongst the most opinionated set of people God created . . . every rapper at one time or the other has said sumn that was way overboard . . . if you're irked that he called anyone fake thugs, let those peops fight their own battles - chances are 99.99% of the time, they know him more than you do.

Facts are facts and can never be eroded . . . Cube is a very much respected MC and as an actor, he still proved his worth . . . casting general aspersions about him won't touch any of those facts.

I didn't agree with Kanye when he staged a protest at the MTV Awards . . . but I will never come out to say sumn like "he's a disgrace to the Black Community".

Some of these journalists need to be slapped hard in the face until they learn how not to practice journalism . . . venting personal beef all in the name of journalism . . . a lot of stories we read about these celebs usually stem from some kind of beef or the other . . . and using press power to send cheap jabs is a very s[/i]tupi[i]d move . . .

Most of these 'journalists' must really think their readers are very daft . . . like who doesn't know that the bad press the likes of Stella Damasus, Mercy Johnson, etc have had lately is due to bad blood?? Most times, the offences these celebs commit against some journalists range from being too beautiful, sexy or talented, to mundane things like not greeting them early enough at events . . . there are some folks you don't even need to read anything new from to know you ought to pan 'em - editors/publishers of shitty magz like The Enquirer ought to have a hot rod shoved up their a[/i]rs[i]e.

How best to deal with the Press is to keep quiet . . . asking 9ice or anyone in his shoes to go defend sumn that'll still get outta hand anyway is like advising someone who has tasted excreta to avoid stepping on it . . . of what good would a press conference do?? Peops will always believe what they wanna whilst you shout yourself hoarse over nutin.

Respect to both dudes but 9ice has been doing the right thing (keeping quiet) whilst Rugged must have thought he was being smart with that bugged convo move. Well, turned out he was really daft.

eldee:
Boldness?? Yeah, not being bold enough to drop the fake gangsta act.
He's a disgrace to the black race.

Eldee, will you shut up there already . . . since when did it become a crime for anyone to diversify?? These dudes are businessmen . . . if Jay-Z or Kanye West could do it, they would. Ice Cube is one of the most developed characters in the Hood/Hollywood . . . you think it’s easy to be a gangsta rapper and yet cast for both action and comedy roles??

You should've just said you never liked gangsta rap and put a cork on it . . . Who're your fave rappers?? Kanye West, Lil' Romeo, Kid Cudi.

So is it Are We There Yet or bleep the Popo??

Choose any of both, either or.

You the so-called "rap fans" are the ones whipping up non-existent issues in Rap Music:

"2pac exaggerated his gangsta image, Biggie wasn't a battle rapper, Nas won't go pop, Rakim's mustache is too curly" and bla bla bla . . .

Cube made dough and a name rapping about gunnin’ n runnin’, he goes into acting and you still wanna see him totting gunz . . . you lot like to typecast, I don’t . . . so long these dudes educate or entertain, who cares??

And BTW, “Are We There Yet” was mainly for a particular audience - the kids . . . and it was a very good movie . . . do you need to be reminded that a lotta the so-called ‘macho’ actors have done sumn like that at one point or another??

Plus you didn’t have to dig up his rather softer points and ignore his strengths . . . are you forgetting “Three Kings” where he held his own alongside Clooney and Wahlberg?? You think that was an easy task?? Are you forgetting Friday, Boyz n The Hood??

Rhymstein:
usin muities mean say u no go make sense?

How does been interesting make u d next thing to blow?

The lines dnt connect jor

You don't have to sound like Canibus or Nas in the early 90s all the time to be a rapper . . .

When you listen to the whole verse carefully, you'll observe that Ice Prince was just 'phucking around' on that song . . . it's not the kinda song you listen to, expecting to hear Socrates . . .

And to the connection between "interesting" & "next thing", they could very well connect if you think it out -

"J.Cole sounds so interesting on a track/J.Cole is the next thing in Rap" . . . don't be so hard on Ice Prince Mr Rhymstein 

slimshay:
As to comparisons fair or unfair, which self respecting rapper will come weaker on a remix?

I seriously doubt it too - a 'remixing' rapper's performance has gotta be 300% better than the original dude to catch ma attention . . . but I ain't even looking strictly from this angle, just that both catz held it down well, and selecting one above the other depends on how carefully you listened to understand what each one was tryna do.

MC Hammer?? He should've just faced his ministerial work and let "dissing dogs diss" . . .

Eldee, don't mess with Ice Cube o - he's not ya average MC at all . . . one of the most respected in the game . . . you can't blame him for his boldness and guts.