₦airaland Forum

thanks seyibrown for that reply, and may God bless you at the right hand of God in Christ.


Not all who profess christ are true xtians. Not all true xtians understand the what the power of God in them can do. Besides, not all have the same gifts, not all desire the gifts of healing, not all are prepared to do what it takes to be a channel for the gift of healing and miracles.


yes that is true but i have some doubts abot this sentence not all are prepared to do what it takes to be a channel for the gift of healing and miracles.

note Christ did not say do this and that then this things i did you will do but this what He said
v12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

the only one thing is BELIEVE and that He is Gone to the Father. For me i see a Promise not rules to be done before such manifest.

It takes sacrifice, listening to God, having faith in what he's said, and doing what exactly he said to do.


He not only said what He did but GREATER WORKS than He did and this i believe comes from acknowledging more of His Abundant grace in our life.

Philem 4-7

4 I thank my God, making mention of thee always in my prayers,
5 Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints;
6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

7 For we have great joy and consolation in thy love, because the bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother.
KJV

How many are willing to fast for 7, 21 or 40 days for a sick person? How many are happy to stay up all night praying for a sick person? The MOG who prays at a meeting and the holy spirit moves, healing many at time, do you know how many days of fasting, listening, praying and obeying he has done?

must it be only MOG how about the saint in your backyard? i believe that is why i feel we only look to MOGs and at times they misfire. but i believe when He (Yehoshua) said those that BELIEVE he never restricted it to just 'em but any saint.

i believe fasting, prayer etc are important but in themselves they are not the yardstick but a means to an end so we should emphasise more of who we are in Him, Him our Life, His Grace and every good thing in us as saint in Him.

Jesus did it, they did it, and we can do it too. Jesus told us about the signs that would follow those who believe.

We can do it if we please God and have his approval.
You are already approved (accepted in the Beloved) by Him as a saint
Eph 1:4-8
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
KJV

Also see Yefet's post here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-485226.0.html
thank God for Yefet's post and i believe he is not some great MOG but a 'mechanic' if am not wrong but that is what i mean,

QUOTE
[s]People are unable to raise the dead, heal amputees, turn water into wine, walk on water and the story said Jesus did because it is JUST a story and the story is a fable. . . .The hadiths also have the prophet of Islam dividing the moon into two, and making a tree cry. . . .All these stories are nothing but FABLES that is why NO Christian on earth can do anything that Jesus or his disciples was written to have done in the bible stories. . . .
[/s]

beloveeed:
i wish only people that we are on the same level that is in Christ who believe THEY ARE SEATED TOGETHER with Him to discuss and share.

In addition, from the above we can see that From the foregoing, they did what He did but dont forget He said "greater than this". from the account they have not done the greater. so who will do the greater and what ARE the GREATER .
i wish only people that we are on the same level that is in Christ who believe THEY ARE SEATED TOGETHER with Him to discuss and share.

from the attached image, the disciples who together with us believed is seen fulfilling His promise but us in this dispensation are daily surrounded with opportunity to allow the Power to flow.
Question: why them and not us? Are we different? They further emphasized that timothy and some other disciples under Paul here not healed but like timothy was requested to take some wine (a sort of medicine) to heal him.
Further question, could timothy be in unbelief that is why he was requested by Paul to take some wine. Because some people when Jesus was around believed He was the son of a carpenter only and not the Son of God, hence because of their unbelief, He only did a few miracle no?

I came across a site today which stated that there are things that ended with the apostles and they base their claim on 1 cor 13 that since the perfect (bible) has come therefore the imperfect has ceased to exist which include the gifts of the Spirit which include working of miracles, tongues etc.
Now this I find amusing considering the following scripture
John 14:9-15
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
KJV
Now look at verse 12, [b]was this statement directed at those who where alive that is His disciples only or every other person after the disciples might have moved to the other dimension awaiting us. [/b]For in the above verse He said the things I (Jesus Christ) do shall he(those that believe in Him) also do. He did not stop there but went further and stated that greater than what He did shall such (those who believe in Him)do.

huxley

all the post is saying is simply mixing the religions 'Catholianity' and islam then concluding that the evils they have perpetrated is the reason that he as an athiest is 'fundamentally sensible'.

hope i summarised it well then to me all is nonsense cause am not in a religion but am with the Way!

hi poster

i presume that you are an otherworldling - seated with Christ in the Heavenly places. for me all the rules we have set up to have a perfect marriage is summed up thus

Husbands love your wives
wives submit to your husband

Eph 5:23-28
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
KJV

o better still use this steps to study the post of any person
log in
click search and type any name you want to start with e.g viaro
click on any topic viaro appears in
in that thread click viaro's name to view his profile
then click "show last posts of this person"
and you will see loads of post, choose anyone and you can start from the begining of such a thread.

this was how i read and enjoyed intelliegent discussion. (pls i am not using viaro to promote him but as an example)

hi poster

this is as a result of not searching nairaland before posting the above topic. this is not really a new topic a such. take your time to search and you will discover very nice and intelligent discussions or to help you, try and search using names like pilgrim.1, viaro, davidlyan, deepsight, noetic etc
for example when i want to know how the atheist reason, i simple typed in the search option "huxley pilgrim.1" "mazaje viaro" and i had a well discussed thread.

all you will simply do is waste your time over questions upon questions trying to ridicule the Way!

first and foremost, thanks enigma for bring this up.
secondly, it has made me realize not all that say Lord! Lord! is recognised by Him
Thirdly, becos of such things the way is evil spoken of so am not surprised (initially was but comforted by scripture)
fourthly, it has further helped me understand who i listen to as message
finally, i am righteaous if they choose to dicredit the Way!

are this isp really good considering the challenges they are receiving from others including the various telecoms offering internet browsing as well? moreover are they good in this services

good customer relation
quality of speed /bandwidth compared to offered cost
response to downlink on thier network

pls anyone that is using their services will be appreciated.

Jenwitemi:

OLAADEGBU link=topic=451756.msg6117294#msg6117294 date=1275178407:
A group of scientists, got together and decided that man had come a long way and no longer needed God.  They picked one scientist to go and tell God that they no longer needed Him.

God listened patiently and kindly to the man and after the scientist finished, God said, "Very well!  How about this?  Let's have a man-making contest."

To which the man replied, "Okay, great!"

But God added, "Now we're going to do this just like I did back in the old days with Adam."

The scientist said, "Sure, no problem" and bent down and gathered a handful of dust.

God just looked at him and said, "No, no, no.  You have to make your own dust out of nothing!"

The scientists then said, "okay, we will do it like you did it and create out own universes in our minds so that we can have all the dusts we need. How about that?"
[s]The bible god answered, "ye are indeed too clever for me. I need to create dumber humans." [/s]

the bible God answered, "be my guest . . . start now!

furthermore this forum and the various discussions btw athiest and thiest has opened my eyes to research more into creation and origin. i hope any new athiest/thiest with anything NEW should be directed to the library before posting cause a lot of information has passed under the bridge, before they post and it will prevent bloating of the religion forum.

pls create the 'library'.

i think

another benefit that this forum ha afforded me is the opportunity to understand how and why atheist reason and thier presentation of thier arguments are really interesting and at times a bit but nonetheless educative as well. another angle is that its mostly nigerians (athiest and thiest) so i can relate with them and it gives a feeling of 'family'.

hi

jw

,

Jenwitemi:
Why thank him? Any web board this seize must have a religious forum. It is a regular feature.

in any case, i still want him to be appreciated and that is why i did, hope its not breaking rules abi? and thanks for the forum moderators toooo.

hello

seun, hope you will read this post. i must really commend you for creating this forum especially the religion section and opportunity to share one's beleif in God or higher power. and have alllowed all to contribute extensively on various issues. i also want to give thannks to all the athiest in the house, may God bless you abundantly. i thanks you to all the criticism you have put forward to theist especially christians and i must say such thoughts have been quite addressed by thiest (pilgrim.1, davidlan, pastoraio, viaro etc) at least the few i have read and more as i hope to find time to read.

please suen, kindly create a sort of library section listing some really interesting post btw athiest and thiest in which it was discussed exhaustively so that newcommers to religion section can read such

1. Moral Victory: Religious Exploitation, And The New American Creed by huxley
2. I Think I'm Losing My Faith In God
3. Our Orphic World by pilgrim

and very many post between athiest and thiest.

hope the forum moderators and suen will consider my request.

hello all

mmwak
sorry wat do u mean?

deep site and others

thanks for letting me in but really i was expecting to see pilgrim but no worry if she is around shalom. but why i asked was becos of the various post she did that have helped me to understand quite a lot of the naturalist, the beyond the seen etc

maybe she is protecting herself since we know she converted.


anyway thanks for the link.

but

The religious forum has been a boring site until i came across a post by pilgrim.1 and huxley which was really interesting and each response was cordial and in a gentleman format. i enjoyed the flow of the discussion. therefore, i decided to make a research on the post by pilgrim and what i discovered was a balanced view of what athiesm really is (a committed unbelief in the existence of God or a committed believe in the non-existence of a diety), its various ideologies and their worldview was really stressed.

where is pilgrim.1? i wish to express thanks to God for your great post (others have also done well to)

[b]Argument between theists and atheist cannot get anywhere same for between christianity and islam and between anyother religion. When i was at university my born again room mates and i would argue for days without out getting anywhere. [size=14pt]Each person is dug into his/her mind set and belief system, changing that mindset is almost an impossible task. [/size]I know for sure that a person is ready to defend his belief system with every thing they have both rational and irrational, and attacking a person's belief system is taken as an act of war - figuratively and sometimes physically.

Becoming an atheist is a slow and gradual (and sometimes painful) proccess.  I do not subscribe to atheists trying to convince theists to give up their religion or rediculing any of the theist religions and putting themselves on a high pedestal. Atheists should be contented they have found the truth just like the religionist should be contended they have found the truth.  it should be left at that as they both live in seperate worlds like fish and birds.[/b]
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-279631.64.html#msg3987745

i was reading in one of the post above and really felt that its really impossible to convince me/you people otherwise and for me i think i will slow down and face Him fully than either arguing endlessly. No wonder hardly read anymore replies by some christian brethern, guess they understand what Paul said about arguing in vain. but i may contribute if possible

so let an athiest be athiestic and a son of God remain son of God until then,

Rev 22:11-12
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still:
and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and
he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and
he that is holy, let him be holy still.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and
my reward is with me,
to give every man according as his work shall be.
KJV

Another thing that strikes me is that, some of the evidence of the location and events, such as the red sea crossing that occurred in the bible are located in muslim countries such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia (believe Saudi Arabia is Holy land thus unbelievers should be restricted at least to the barest minimum)  and there are restriction placed preventing archeological research. hence restricting the information that might be derived from archeological discovery. But in a way, it may be out of His great wisdom such locations are in such places because such artifacts/locations will be preserved until the appointed period.
However, I thank God for the few that had access to such sites before the restriction and brought forth pictures of such locations has helped in no small measure that there is more that meets eyes of men. Probably God allows the information to be hidden to prevent distorting it or so that men who feel they must see before believing, will continue in their state of disbelief. that is my opinion.

but there is a documentary "the exodus conspiracy " will be aired this year 2010 about some startling revelation of the exodus. i wait for it. you can visit the website www.theexodusconspiracy.com. Also you could read some info on this site http://www.arkdiscovery.com/red_sea_crossing.htm

furthermore, i wish to appreciate the critiquing, questioning of my belief structures by athiest which has further made me to understand my belief deeply and read wide at least to some level.

thanks

It is note worthy that in this world, we need information which has helped us in shaping our ideas and determines which belief system (Theist or Atheist alike). however, its my opinion that somehow, somewhere a group or groups might be withholding/censoring of information that might be necessary to either make or mar our belief structures.

for instance, why is it that search engines like google might not be allowed to report information due to censorship. Also the reason why we have services like Freedom or tor is to allow us to have access to some countries because such countries always blocks your IP. therefore it means that some information will not be allowed for your consumption.

Therefore, could the prove of the existence of biblical locations or events be censored/hidden/suppressed because it disturbs/oppose someone's well held belief structures just as the catholic church once prevented the bible to be written/available to the public until people like Martin Luther and William Tyndale?

i came across this on this site and it pricked my interest.

Quote
Suppression, Censorship and Dogmatism in Science

"Textbooks present science as a noble search for truth, in which progress depends on questioning established ideas. But for many scientists, this is a cruel myth. They know from bitter experience that disagreeing with the dominant view is dangerous - especially when that view is backed by powerful interest groups. Call it suppression of intellectual dissent. The usual pattern is that someone does research or speaks out in a way that threatens a powerful interest group, typically a government, industry or professional body. As a result, representatives of that group attack the critic's ideas or the critic personally-by censoring writing, blocking publications, denying appointments or promotions, withdrawing research grants, taking legal actions, harassing, blacklisting, spreading rumors."

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_supr.htm


what do you think? could some of the held belief by atheist, be threatened if some of the facts of the prove of the locations/events in the bible be scientifically prove to be right?

hello

what are the steps/process one needs to take to have copyright protection on ones work?

a detail step will be appreciated.

thanks

agathamari:
@poster you made one major error in your orriginal post. not everyone who believes in evolution is an athiest. last statistics i have seen show 48% of christians believe in evolution

thanks but which statistics and moreover which "christians"? you see if one believes in evolution which according to 'scientists', does not point to a creator, will be immposible to believe the creation story and still be a christian.

maybe the 'christians' u refering to are nominal and those born brought up in a christian home. But born again christians will beleive fully in the creation story against evolution.

pls dont be offended in the arrangement but i hope when u read u will understand.
thanks

[b]ok let me modifiy it this way because of 'independent and varied lines' of tot,
athiesm (ideology of no belief in God) is SIMILAR to Christianinty (ideology in belief of a God)

Evolution God               
values and attitude depends on belief                      similar to      values and attitude depends on belief
Unseen Force called evolution           similar to Unseen Entity called God               
Universe evolved from nothing           similar to ^^created the earth from nothing
earth 'triggered’ from processess and reaction   similar to earth and all came by the spoken word
in the universe
no one was there to record what happened    similar to no one was there when it happened except God
consist of groups with differing opinions & ideology   similar to consist of various groups with various ideology
millions died becos of ideology-Stalin,Marx,hitler    similar to millions died because of a sect (catholic)
observation (history later) written by men    similar to have a history book written by men
reference 4m other athiest as their reference    similar to have a standard book the followers reference from
divided becos of reasoning            similar to divided becos of reasoning
atom that is not seen is believed to exist    similar to Heb 11:1 the evidence of things not seen[/b]


finally i wish to give some quotes from some of your great 'scientists' who acknowledge that evolution is a religion.
L. H. Matthews, the man who wrote the preface to the 1971 edition of Charles Darwin's book, The Origin of Species, said, "The belief in the theory of evolution was [size=20pt]exactly parallel[/size] to belief in special creation, with evolution merely a satisfactory faith on which to base our interpretation of nature-" It is a faith.

The British physicist L. H. Lipsom, said, "In fact, [size=30pt]evolution became in a sense, a scientific religion.[/size] Almost all scientists have accepted it, and many are prepared to bend their observations to fit in with it.

hello all

sorry pls i had some internet problem however, i need to read thru the post and understand the various response.

so far thanks for all that have stated thier views.

mazaje:
Here is a simple definition of religion from wikipedia. . . ."Religion is the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or any such system of belief and worship[1], usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

So name one deity that atheist worship or believe in. Name one devotional or ritual observance that atheist adhere to. . . . .Of course there are reigions that are atheistic in nature because they worship no particular deity but atheism is not a religion no matter how many times you keep repeating the statement to yourself. . . .

that is wiki, here is encarta

re·li·gion [ri líjjən]
(plural re·li·gions)
noun
1. beliefs and worship: people's beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life
2. system: an institutionalized or personal system of beliefs and practices relating to the divine
3. personal beliefs or values: a set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by
4. obsession: an object, practice, cause, or activity that somebody is completely devoted to or obsessed by
The danger is that you start to make fitness a religion.

take 3 & 4 above, it speaks about your believe in NO GOD that is your belief.


thanks tpia

manmustwac:
Well if you find it easier to believe in talking donkeys, sticks turning into snakes or a tower that can be built to reach Heaven well good luck to you.

I find it easier to believe that dinosaurs once existed, that thier are fossils to prove that the planet is more than 10'000 years old or that human beings evolved

well done! at least we are on the same level i.e we all believe based on reasons.
it is easier to believe such than to believe in d big bang out of nothing, that dinasurs evolved into chiken, and above all that your reasoning is all in a big game plan by a Great Mind just like one of the pharoahs was used to actualise the grand purpose. so pls continue its helping our agenda!

mazaje

welcome. wel if u want to know , nothing but if u read the post aboove u may understand,

Nonsense. Evolution isn't presented as an entity nor a being. Further, one needn't be an atheist to accept evolution. In fact, more theists - particularly Christians - than atheists (in terms of numbers) accept the occurrence of evolution.


Note I did not say evolution is a being or entity but an UNSEEN FORCE which made or caused (your assumption) what we see and touch. Secondly, becos they (so called christian) accept it, does it make it acceptable?


Second, while the gods haven't been observed (and I welcome your admittance of that fact), evolution has been observed.

Please don’t confuse micro with MACRO Evolution. And MACRO evolution has neither been seen either or tell me, what has dinosaurs evolved into our present day and why have we not on a MACRO level evolved into a super species for more than thousand of years or are we to wait for million of years before we for one to evolve?


Third, like the theory of evolution, many (most?) theists accept the "evolution" of the earth. And, no, no one with a basic grasp of science says the earth "evolved from nothing".

Sorry, I hope the two evolutionist did not have a grasp of science when the said this:
Scientific America. May, 1984, The Inflationary Universe,” evolutionists Alan Guth and Paul Steinhardt wrote, The inflationary model of the universe provides a possible mechanism by which the observable universe could have evolved from an infinitesimal region- It is then tempting to go one step further and speculate that the entire universe evolved from literally nothing.



Finally, no the earth didn't come to be because of a trigger, etc, but through a series of reactions and processes.

Ok if a series of reactions and processes then surely there must be a ‘trigger’ a force that starts it.


What makes you think your god was there? In any case, using our senses we can observe the hostory of things and how they may have occurred both on earth and outside of it,

What if your senses could be telling you what it is not? No wonder there are counter argument upon argument about what one has observed in the scientific world. For me I will keeping waiting until the argue till He Comes! Then all knees must bow down to Him and Call Him Lord. Is it not funny that daily evolutionist etc daily contradict themselves over and over yet never coming to the knowledge of the truth?



Wait, what has various sects? Not quite right. Theism consists of various religions, religious sects, and various ideologies. There are also some religions that are atheistic. What you wrote makes no sense otherwise.

Hmm, read my encarta post
sect [sekt](plural sects) noun
1. nonmainstream religious group: a religious group with beliefs and practices at variance with those of the more established main groups
2. religious denomination: a denomination of a larger religious group
3. close-knit group: a small close-knit group with strongly held views that are sometimes regarded as extreme by the majority
Encarta

Now from the above, a sect has a belief which it practices and follows dogmatically. And from what I have read from the various post, athiest have the belief that there is NO GOD which they practice as we see in their responses and this they follow dogmatically.




Your remaining argument I answered for winiret. Read my post above