₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
It is not only the fact of the complexity of these things (nature, the universe and man) that leads us to say this: it is also the fact that they evince purpose.

By the way, I don't know of anybody that says that God is Complex. God is more likely the most simple and fundamental founding principle of reality and as such I see no reason to state that God is complex.

PS: Your statement that nature is no proof of God is akin to your statement that science has nothing to do with logic.

Lol, "science has nothing to do with logic", do you ever learn? I thought I broke that statement down to the lowest understandable state? Choi... You can go about saying I said "science has nothing to do with logic", when I in fact said No scientific FACT is BASED on logic

Base
[color=maroon] base
bās/
verb
past tense: based; past participle: based
1.
have as the foundation for (something); use as a point from which (something) can develop. [/color]

Since it seems your problem is not understanding English..

What scientific fact was founded by logic? What scientific fact was made a fact by "using logic".. You can point just one or forever hold your peace..

And you can as well go about thinking that I meant " no scientific fact is logical ", I know that's what you probably think, since the stupid is visible!!

Wilgrea7:
and it all boils down to the same thing you atheists say .... “prove that God exists".. the annoying part is that you expect us to use physical methods to prove the existence of a being all around us.. when we tell you to look at nature and all that is within... when we tell you to look at the galaxies, the nebulas and the different stars, the designs and other obvious facts, you'll claim it came from nothing... nothing that exploded... but you failed to give us the reason why nothing exploded and what made nothing explode. you failed to tell us why and how nothing was able to give laws that planets follow like gravity, magnetism, etc.. you failed to explain how nothing gave birth to all these minerals, plants, in the right order, proportion, etc... why our hands aren't our heads etc... you failed to pay attention to our evidence... we then gave you spiritual evidence... there are things like OBE's, astral travels and dreams.. yet you called it delusions and our mind playing tricks on us.. you call our spiritual nature delusions, we used miracles to prove that there is a supernatural and we tried to show you the spiritual plane through many religions and faiths.. yet you call it delusions... yet you believe your intelligence and brain came from the mistake of nothing.. what other evidence do you want for an all supreme creator? you rejected nature, spirituality and logic.. you rejected evidence right before your eyes.. and then when we ask you to take the final test to prove this God for yourself(which is death) you refuse... and you say we have no proof for God.. we have more than enough proof.. you are proof.. or do you want God to wear a human body and slap you in the face first? your kind of proof is like asking a lion to prove it is powerful by sleeping... it goes against all aspects of reasoning





In whose beginning? God's or ours?.. sorry to burst your bubble... but it was our beginning... and also, if you're using the biblical creation story as your point then you should at least understand the story

Nature is no proof of God, so nature is too beautiful to have come by mistake? Is that what you are saying? The galaxies are just too great to have come by mistake? The human body is too complex to have no creator? Why don't you apply same logic to your god, he is too complex to have no creator too? Isn't it? Else... DOUBLE STANDARDS.

Spirituality? Actually that's BS, there's nothing spiritual about the world, we have lucid dreams (that religious people will characterize as "revelation", sleep paralysis (that religious people will characterize as "spiritual attack" ), what you call miracle is normal to someone else.
Just because you had an accident and everyone else died and only you survived, that is no miracle you self-centered being, so what about those that died? your imaginary friend felt their lives were useless? There is nothing like miracles just co-incidence... I remember once when I was badly in need of money, and from no where someone whom has been owing me for a long time, sent my money.. . If it happened to a Christian, he would probably go to church and give testimony that God delivered him!

So it's we don't understand the creation story now? The same story that has two accounts? Or is it even the Bible that has over a thousand contradicting passages?? (lol forgive my pun though).. . So God is eternal, what was he doing before he created the billions of years earth "6-10,000" years ago? according to that story, the first thing he created is light (without the sun o) [which you Christians say is "symbolic light"], so basically he didn't create water and according to the Bible, earth is the only planet god focuses on out of the 9planets in our solar system, and out of the millions of solar systems we have, god is only interested in the little earth... Lol

The only proof we need of God is to show him to us, or he should show himself or even speak to his creatures abi he's scared we'll bomb him out of the sky?

You say nature was created by God, same way I can tell you Thor and Odin created the world, since we both lack proof, just senseless so called "logical" assumptions

DeepSight:
The correct argument actually is not what you have written. The correct argument is not that everything has a creator. Please listen and learn: the correct argument is as follows:

- "That everything that begins to exist, must have a cause."

Please note that self existent things never "begin to exist".

Digest that. Thank you.

Nice one... Just how you know that god is self existent??

peacesamuel94:
Anything material must have a creator/cause


God is not material,


Hence God does not need a creator to exist.

and how do you know that god is not material?

Kondomatic:
I actually asked for your permission to be foolish as you were while composing the OP.........

How do you know that the force is gravity? Any evidence to prove that it actually a gravitational force that pulls me down?

If yes, prove it otherwise keep quiet.

By the way, go to church, see people tell you your past and present, watch miracles happen, see people fall under the anointing. That's the effects of God's presence.
How do you know that what you see is the effects of gravity?

You have never carried out any successful scientific research.

You have never discovered anything.

But you believe everything your scientists say.

There's no way to know if they're brainwashing you or not and yet you think you're smart.

Concentrate on getting the best out of your life bro and stop worrying religious people.

You are no better than them.

Another person may come up tomorrow and tell you that what you have been calling gravity is earthly pulla pulla and I sure you will believe it once you see evidence.

Chai.. lwkmd
Gravity is just a nomenclature, a name given to that force that pulls you down... But THERE IS A FORCE THAT PULLS YOU Down, it can be called anything! Whether earthly pulla pula but as far as we are referring to that earthly pull!!!

People fall under anointing or hypnosis?? I was once part of that crowd that fell when the pastor prayed, and I can confirm that I wasn't moved by "sh-it", I just fell to feel that "Yes, the holy spirit is working", but there was actually no force behind that..

Miracles? Lol, do you know anybody that had physical defects (blind, deaf, dumb) but once prayed to, became fine?? Not strangers o, but people you know and have witnessed them being healed? Why can't the so called god heal amputees since he is all powerful, well, because miracle itself is a trick just like magic!!

And I don't believe everything a scientist say just like you believe everything your bible says..

Kondomatic:
Lols......... You are not as intelligent as you want us to believe.


Thing is, the world is made of 2 people. The brainwasher and the brainwashed.

You and I belong the later.


Permit me to be foolish as you were while composing this post.


How do you know that what is known today as gravity is truly gravity? I haven't seen it, touched it or heard it.........

Because a brainwasher told you(the brainwashed) so.

You can't prove it and yet you believe it.........

Please show me gravity.

.

People can be really foolish though

I should show you gravity? Stand up, then jump up, the force that brings you down is called gravity!!

Brainwashed? If we were told about gravity and we couldn't see it's effects, that's when one would think that gravity doesn't exist.

But what of God? All we hear and see are "assumed effects"

Wilgrea7:
mr man sir! what kind of “evidence" are you still looking for?? what equipment has science invented that can measure or calculate eternity? what basis or method do you want me to use to prove that an all surpreme creator exists outside of time? i should use time and matter to measure or calculate something outside it?? its like saying you want to use nokia torch to carry out the functions of a super computer.. what other kind of evidence or fact do you need? on what kind of basis do you want me to do the experiment and present facts? if you can't answer then stop trying to use a cup to measure an ocean

Reply above ^^^

Wilgrea7:
so it only affirms that an all surpreme creator is immortal and without beginning or end because it is not bound by any particular ”now" either in the future or past

cc: benzics , hopefullandlord , etc

it all boils down to "Logic", why not evidence or facts? Do you know about Bigfoot? Do you know that there have been sightings of Bigfoot (more than the sighting of yahweh).. Does that mean that yes, since that looks like Bigfoot, BIGFOOT EXISTS, YAAAYYY!!!!
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/tDw6p6aWYXQ/hqdefault.jpg

I know you might probably start thinking that the Bigfoot is a fact same way you think the creator of the universe is a fact.. . I thought you all said everything has a beginning? Even the Bible says "in the beginning", so why do you guys keep saying God always was? ?

And even the Bible said that in the beginning, god was wandering the world (where there is water).. So does it mean that there was water and before God? or god and water arrived same time? so who or what brought their arrival?

KingEbukasBlog:
Can you provide facts or evidence God does not exist

just because you can't disprove something do not mean that thing exists.. can you disprove with facts that the flying spaghetti monster exist? Does that mean it exists?

Wilgrea7:
it's very logical for a creator to exist outside of time... God is not subject to the laws of physics.. he exists in different dimensions.. time as we know it had a beginning... he was there before that beginning... and if i may ask .... what do you call “time" ?

shirt!! .. I thought I mentioned with facts or evidence and not LOGICAL ASSUMPTIONS??

KingEbukasBlog:
I've answered your questions . Leave me to know what I know . You believe the stupidest and most illogical things as an atheist , it baffles me too . Atheism is the most stupidest and vapid belief I have ever come across .

lol..

For the records, you didn't answer my question, I asked you to answer with facts or evidence.. You answered with assumptions! Of course, atheism is stupid because it causes you to question your "imaginary friend" that will burn you if you do question him, lol.. Fear of being burnt - Christianity

.

CHESTER48:

All this boils down to either God exist. Actually in reality it doesn't. For the Christians and others he does. Just take it that way. Spirits don't exist too. It's just forces. Consult your physics. Bible said in the beginning he created the heven and the earth. Now the earth was without shape and void. But wait for it

Wait for it



Wait


Wait

Wait


Now


But there was water?
But actually It says God created everything.

OH! Except water which created it self. HmmHmm. Unless water is the real God

Lol, that's just brilliant.. .

https://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/dam/assets/140620150603-2014-nba-social-media-awards-best-post-00000422.1200x672.jpg

KingEbukasBlog: 2. God exists in multiple dimension of time : When there is at least two dimensions of time . There is no beginning or end , God can travel from anywhere in time and have no beginning . That explains why His prescience - ability to know future events . And also present and past events .

But God can manifest himself in three dimensions (solid and material form ) so that man can comprehend him . And that is called a theophany .

Just how you knew all that is what baffles me, do you know that everything you wrote above are all someone's explanation of something or we can easily say someone's assumptions..

Is it theology? The study of unrealistic things? Pfft.. .

I know you are a Christian and I know you believe in hell and that God doesn't want you to go to hell, going by your logic and the quote I picked above, so god knows the future (that one is going to hell) but he still creates the person and gets "mad" when the person goes to the hell that he already knew that the person was going to.. . Na wa o.. how you believe all these things baffles me

felixomor:
Yeah.
Sit down and argue with somebody who says time doesnt exist?

God forbid.

you are funny though, do you seriously want me to tutor you on the unreality of Time?

Do you know about quantum relativity? It disagrees with the existence of time, and of course in some ways, it's true.. Time was actually created by man to keep record of events, do you seriously think that because your clock is telling you 9 O'clock , then it's 9 o'clock in space? Don't worry, in the nearest future, the unreality of time will be a major feature in physics.. .

felixomor:
Bros, lets rest it.
Time doesnt exist, according to u.

Full stop

LMAO I guess that means "I have no answer to your questions".. OK o.. FULL STOP INDEED

felixomor:
Anybody that exists outside time, needs no creator to exist.
Unless you dont understand that.

Nowadays, everyone wants to become scientist by force becos of apetheism.

Mscheww

Answer these questions and I can attend to you, else, you yourself know nothing about the "science" you are talking about..

Question 1: How did you know of something that exists outside time??

Question 2: How do you know that a God is that something that exists outside time.

Question 3: How do you know that this God created and watches his creations??

Answer with facts or even evidence, not ASSUMPTIONS

Until you answer the three questions above, I don't think you are someone to be taken seriously

Good morning and a happy Sunday hope most of you went to your house of brainwashing? LOL

Straight to the topic, theists and Deists are fond of saying " how did you exist without a creator ", but the moment you ask them " how did God exist without a creator" they are like, "God is before time, God always was"..

Now how did you get to the conclusion that " god always was ", when you've in fact never seen or heard from this god, you never even studied this god, you just " logically assumed " like my bro Deepsight .

Now I was arguing with this Deist, and he was trying to explain "infinite regress with a permanent something ", so I just acted like I was sharing in his ignorance, and the question is "how did you know that 'god' is that permanent something" ??

Actually, non of these Deists, and Theists know.. They just share in one big river of "ignorance, delusion and assumptions"...

Now I was trying to explain to the theists and Deists using programming's " infinite loop".
If you are a programmer, first you know it's impossible to create a loop using a particular condition, and in the long run, "tweak your condition to suit your explanation" and still maintain the first condition to be true, that's IMPOSSIBLE... Programmers can relate

But this impossible thing is what theists and Deists go about saying "without shame", you create a condition for a God (everything has a creator), then tweak your condition (god has no creator).. It's impossible and to even consider the fact that you know nothing about this "god" of yours!

Next time if you want to give a reason why there is a god, you don't tell us everything has a creator when you are not ready to present us with God's creator, if you want to prove the existence of God to us.. YOU SIMPLY SHOW US GOD!!!

Have a nice day though..

jonbellion:
4evergod evolution is here to stay
No matter how much you wish for it to go away
If any changes should happen to the theory now it would be modifications and not an entire dismissal
You are a homindea among other homindea like chimpanzees and bonobos
Deal with it

the guy has been claiming "no evidence", even when it is clear we and chimps share similar descendants, it's their type that ask "if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes"..

Their matter dy tire person o.

4kings:
Can you imagine
Benzics you are really calling others "dumb", after making this senseless comment:


SMH

The meaning you read to things are seriously not my business.

benzics: Lol.. You might actually think I meant "no scientific fact is logical".. But i actually mean " no scientific fact was made a fact, by sitting in your room and imagining things that are not real, all in the name of logic "...

There you go, just broke it down to a level you MIGHT understand

And I thought I mentioned something like that in the paragraph where I called Deepsight?

Or you may easily refer me to one scientific fact that came about by just" using logic " instead of study

It's not new that creationists and some religious people/Deists claim that their "creation" story makes sense more than evolution, and then this begs the question, "do these set of people really have SENSE " .

4evergod created a thread claiming that he has "exposed" evolution, that evolution was a lie and didn't make any sense (where in fact things won't make sense to you if you don't have sense), the thread was full of crap, and he kept asking for evidence, we presented DNA similarities and others, but they kept claiming "that is no evidence"...

And one Deepsight came along with his " philosophical logical assumptions " to overule " a study with evidence ", and I kept asking the ignorant fellow," how does sitting in your room and using 'logic' make something a FACT?? ", as usual, he was running round in circles making no sense...

Some dumb people also came around though, claiming to know evolution, don't want to mention them, but they sure know themselves.

They were consistent in asking for evidence, even when randomperson was providing one, they acted like they didn't see it (like what happens in the video below).

And then some **** fellows assumed that you being an atheist, makes you an evolutionist, and were even calling on monikers to come and defend evolution (Chai).

Some *** were busy forming autocorrect software (as if English means intelligence)

Now, take your time and your little data, and watch the video below, exposing how **** 4evergod and his gang sounded in his "expose" thread. Here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBHEsEshhLs

KingEbukasBlog:

The dog was brought back to life or reanimated, so according to you, for life to exist, it must have a spirit, and you said when animals die, their spirit also die, so this particular dog that was reanimated, how was the spirit also reanimated?? ?

damogul:
They used a mobile phone to dial it back. Mtcheew!

lol, I thought you all believed that once the spirit is gone, it is gone, how did they call back this spirit, by using a Mobile phone abi? That shows you don't have the answer and you will most likely claim that "it is god" if scientists weren't involved.. Ode people

Blitzerz:
For real?
Abeg science is not by force.

What a funny question.
Even completely severed heads still respond to stimulation before completely dying.

Besides why did u have to lie that the dog was brought back to life?

Guy, science is not by force.

OH sorry I meant that the dog was woken from sleep, satisfied? I don't have time to waste on your type.. Pfft

KingEbukasBlog:
The spirits of animals are destroyed when they die - they die once the animal is dead . They are not to be compared with spirits of humans .

Ecclesiastes 3:21
Who knows the spirit of man that goes upward, and the spirit of the beast that goes downward to the earth?

so how was the dead spirit called back?

Blitzerz:
Which kind funny video did u post there.?
Who told you that dog was dead before experiment?

What type of desperation is this.?
Even when a chicken head is cut, it still shakes as though its alive and may be sustained vegetatively and somebody like u will say such chicken was brought back to life.

Chai, what is this?

Let me assume you were joking... Were you??

Then e be like say your brain dy pain u.. .

The chicken that it's head was shaking, was the head completely disconnected from the body

Can't you watch the video above with your eyes and brains? Can't you see the dog was responding to stimuli, taste, light and sound.. .

Nawa o

KingEbukasBlog:
Reviving a dead person through "medical means" IS NOT POSSIBLE . Its a belief . And cryonics has received skeptical views from the scientific community .

Such can happen only through supernatural intervention but such intervention has to be imminent not after aeons . Your physical body is like a vehicle , container , avatar , your true self is your spirit and once it departs after death , it continues its journey or wandering . Some believe that the spirit becomes a denizen of sheol . But whichever it is , once you are gone . Its bye bye physical world .

Since you claim humans have spirits, what about the dog? How did the spirit come back?? Before you start saying Nonsense, the Bible also said that animals have spirits!

So how was the spirit of the dog called?

Have you been to the future? Don't worry, you'll be awed

PDBonline:
You have many things to learn. Unfortunately, you believe you know already so teaching you is of no benefit.
Next time when you check out stuffs in the Bible, know what it means to be "God" first before going ahead because you reason as if God is like you.

Should I prove to you your bible or your god is foolish?

Is God omniscient? Now what does it mean to be omniscient. .

We'll take it, step by step

An2elect2:
Have you Christ? if you have him nothing will move you.

You mean

Prayer didn't do this!!

flamingREED:
See how I educated this man.



Nevertheless, I'll accept your ignorance up there when your ancestors are reanimated or just when your scientist gods will abolish death altogether,
Which from basic education we're taught is A CHARACTERISTIC OF LIVING THINGS

Death is inevitable ,but it can be postponed one way or another you will die, and cryonics doesn't mean making someone immortal!!

KingEbukasBlog:
According to Wikipedia :

Cryonics is regarded with skepticism within the mainstream scientific community and is not part of normal medical practice. It is not known if it will ever be possible to revive a cryopreserved human being. Cryonics depends on beliefs that death is a process rather than an event that clinical death is a prognosis of death rather than a diagnosis of death, and that the cryonics patient has not experienced information-theoretic death.Such views are at the speculative edge of medicine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryonics

There is no possibility a dead person can be revived . The preservation is just to prevent decay that's all .

And don't you think the reanimation of a decapitated dog is proof enough that death is a process?

120years ago, was it known that one day you could switch on and off lights by clapping? Was it known that a computer would be able to show you the gender of the child a pregnant woman is carrying??

Of course it was NOT KNOWN, because we don't time travel, and the future holds a lot for us!