₦airaland Forum

Justbright:
u are yearning dust..Cambridge don't deny d fact DAT he sat for d examination wt dem in 1961 ditto waec.....dey said only buhari and court of law can compel dem to disclose d authenticity of buhari claim..so y not go to court

Off topic, we are talking about 'the issue of proper identity' who is ''he'' you are referring to, is it 'mohamed' or 'muhhamadu' buhari, the school said that "nobody has come up till now for verification of the controversial result" go back and read the topic again buhari distanced himself from taking responsibility of the doc . in my schooldays we use to have 3 persons bearing Sunday ajayi, our principal has to force them to produce middle name to differentiate the, so we have 1)Sunday abiodun ajayi, 2 )Sunday adeola ajayi 3) Sunday oluwole ajayi for waec
That's how to beat fraud and avoid controversies but in buharis case the calculation was deliberate and we have to expose it

Thanks

you have to Admire the effort the APC warriors endosed by systemmaticaly selling this man Buhari to Nigerians Admiration, expecially unexperienced youths were the target to discard any wrong he might have done. But i promise you, the certificate saga will be defended as the APC had calculated and 'set up' all their permutations on this issue and it is working right now. but all their defences they permutate and relied on ''must embrace curruption and dishonesty and abuse of court procecses'' it doesnt matter; some would say but it will serve as a refference point.

[size=14pt]Lets see APC permutations[/size]

1, Affidavit Buhari deposed to before an Abuja High Court that all his certificates were with the Secretary, Military Board, while submitting his Form 199A to the Independent National Electoral Commission, INEC only bears the name Muhammadu Buhari as read out and displayed by Army Public Relations, Brigadier-General Olajide Laleye, who addressed newsmen in Abuja http://www.vanguardngr.com/2015/01/army-speaks-buharis-certificates/

however, Buhari did not include in his affidavit 'any clause' that he bears the name 'Mohamed' but rather 'muhammadu buhari' neither does he attach to or reference in attachment with his presidential form, President APC/001/2015 any newspaper that ever effect a name change or inclussion that he also bears 'mohamed'.

2, The Exam officer Mallam Kabir confirmed that, Buhari has not applied formally in person for the controversial result,

he refused to Mention Gen Buhari neither does he wants to commit the identity of the result owner to katsina or Daura but rather prefer to use anonymous ''one of our ex-student'' which suggest that the exam officer is on instruction as to what to say so as to leave holes in the controversy to be filled later hear him;

''Asked if buhari personally applied for it, Kabir said, “must he apply for it in person? [size=14pt]We received a message that one of our ex students was demanding for his result and we had to release it. However, we are still expecting him to come in person for verification.”[/size] “Mr. Journalist, I am going for prayer now, please call me back.
When this correspondent tried to reach him, [size=14pt]his number was perpetually switched off[/size]

This leaves room for the issue of proper identity, a bigger hole that will serve 'as an escape route which' emboldened APC to dare Aggrieved Nigerians to head to court if they can, so far it is whom that is caught red handed that is a thief.Abuse of court injunctions,ex-parte motions unnecesary applications which still boils down to corruption at the highest level will be use frustrate the case.

[size=14pt]issue of proper identity APC joker card; James Onanefe Ibori's case[/size]

[size=18pt]''the Court of Appeal, Abuja and the Supreme Court respectively confirmed that indeed one James Onanefe Ibori was convicted and sentenced but that there was no proper identification of the said James Onanefe Ibori ''[/size] the appeal was struck out by the Court of Appeal and James Onanefe Ibori was freed by the NJC with allegations of some financial inducement worth N250million

http://www.thenigerianvoice.com/news/141543/1/ogborus-litigations-and-unwavering-quest-for-justi.html


[size=14pt]plan B [/size]

Even if the case is pursued ti the highest of court, and he was eventually convicted, another man can be arranged to bear the name 'Mohamed Buhari' with a court affidavit (which our General Buhari has failed to commit MOHAMED) the arrangee will come to come to the court to claim the result and accept conviction and sentence, while the target Gen Buhari will go scot-free with smiles, after all the time energy and money wasted.

PDP making mistake not to take advantage of this to commit this man to this controversial result even if they will withdraw the case and allow him to contest.

ziccoit:
You forensic friend may not be too smart because of the following:
1. Did he consider the expiriability of the document he analyzed ? We are talking about 50yrs plus document here.
2. Did he consider the expiriability of the ink material used which could ultimately migrate in the process due to aging.
3. Has he analyzed similar documents from the same source of the same age to see if there would be disparity?
4. Did he consider the technology 50yrs plus ago in documentation?

Analyses done in isolation without consider the variability of othe factors are rubbish the group which this one belongs until further tests are carried out.

are you aware that the school principal says yesterday that buhari is still yet to claim responsibility or have in possession nor submit the controversial statement issued to the press, yet people are ignorantly claiming that it was valid

Note the trick here,

1, Mohammed buhari's result was a calculated decoy as an escape route to avoid conviction in the course of complicity on this issue,and at worst can be denied in an event 'if found guilty of forgery'
2, up till now, no court affidavit to the effect of change of name from Mohammed to muhammadu, and that was the missing link to commit buhari as the owner of the controversial result,
They want us to sweep these under carpet and assume in our imagination that this man is free from this guilt.

Forgery is criminal

ziccoit:
You forensic friend may not be too smart because of the following:
1. Did he consider the expiriability of the document he analyzed ? We are talking about 50yrs plus document here.
2. Did he consider the expiriability of the ink material used which could ultimately migrate in the process due to aging.
3. Has he analyzed similar documents from the same source of the same age to see if there would be disparity?
4. Did he consider the technology 50yrs plus ago in documentation?

Analyses done in isolation without consider the variability of othe factors are rubbish the group which this one belongs until further tests are carried out.

are you aware that the school principal says yesterday that buhari is still yet to claim responsibility or have in possession nor submit the controversial statement issued to the press, yet people are ignorantly claiming that it was valid

Note the trick here,

1, Mohammed buhari's result was a calculated decoy as an escape route to avoid conviction in the course of complivity on this issue,and at worst can be denied in an event 'if found guilty of forgery'
2,

Rexyl:
That forensic work is quite revealing, but does it have meaning to politicians who are thirsty and hungry for power? With the ongoing and unsettled controversy on Gen Buhari statement of result/certificate one will wonder how he will cope with issues of moral standing and justice if finally he becomes the president. Will he be able to put records straight without drowning merits in the murky water of politics?

The current happenings go beyond who and who among the contestants of political posts as we are preparing to elect new leaders. It is more about the present and future generations. Before you know what is happening something people are taking for granted would have been on for a suicide mission

you are on point

onatisi:
bros there is tension in the country,we all know what buhari cows in the north can do.if this issue isn't carefully handled it can spin out of control into an ethnic issue.even the judgement in the osun case has been postponed indefinitely,this is to show that pdp and gej don't want any more issues to compound what is already on ground.there is no point in dragging a losing party to court. Believe apc will capitalise on it and derail the whole election process. It is better to allow them to lose in shame and discredit . Now more and more people are beginning to ask question about buhari certificate,each passing day it is becoming obvious to more nigerians that buhari is a fraud and liar,as this issue goes on buhari support base in the north will reduce their support for him. Knowing fully well that even if he wins ,the court will overturn the results and they will be back with gej .so as it is now,the whole game favours pdp more than apc and it is better like this than going to court. The game is to make apc and buhari look stupidd

the tension we have now is artificially invented that's why boko haram remains in the north, PDP should commit this man to this forged document, free of charge my friend says he is ready to testify in court if given protection, let PDP who is the main party sue,and we can apply to testify if invited

coolk:
https://www.nairaland.com/bernimoore
Bros with you permission, I'd like to disseminate this info on other media.
I'll also advice that you take this evidence to the right people, it could be a profitable move...

pls do, I consented to the use only to buttress the forgery claim to others, I have 18 samples I have only revealed 7

Justbright:
,


is DAT all?...am not watching but I was expecting u to say um

watched him deplete our external reserve by almost 50%,

or that he romances corruption just like ur principal is doing..

is it ur wife he divorced?FYI he divorced his wife wen he came

back from detention and found out his wife has been

collecting money and other form of gratification from govt

DAT detained him.....Dats discipline


if an unbiase media house should parkage a documentary on

gej 6 years in office u will

commit suicide........

its not all,

She seeks for assistance to treat their I'll dauther Aisha down with nagging sickle cell while he huhari was in detention, ibb denied buhari to see his families talkless of assisting them, should the wife abandon Aisha their daughter to die of the deadly disease until buhari was released when it wasn't sure that he would be released as the military practice to execute enemies

Buhari was too rigid to even reason with the trying situation of the sickle cell disease leaving the woman to her destiny till death, you see most of you are youth and don't know anything about these generals who strip usofour fundamentals of human right to be heard, anyway you don't need to agree with me because of your curiosity which is being taken advantage of.

Watching and I was shocked to see how

he divorced his first wife with five children who later died of diabetes complication unattended to.

And how he killed a mother of two young children on trump up charges

How saraki opened up on on 2.8 billion stolen

And how he humiliated ajasin and tai solarin for voicing opinion on issues

Lastly how he mock Nigeria by planning the extradition of umar dikko from London using a crate illegally b breaking UK laws

UK journalist were shown publivkly mocking saying ''Fly to Nigeria in crates ha ha ha ha ha ha':

wirinet:
The bolded part of the quote betrays your PDP/TAN leanings. Which modern technology can stop corruption and which countries are employing them? Is it the US (the most technologically advanced nation on earth), China or UK? Is this technology going to stop people from being corrupt. Is it some time of mind altering machine, that would turn the human mind away from doing evil?

From the dawn of recorded history till the last day on earth, the most effective way to discourage corruption and all its attendant evil is a Deterrent. You get punished appropriately for your crimes. Even the Bible and Koran emphasizes punishment as deterrent for sins and crimes. So i do not know where you and Jonathan got the stupid idea that technology and not punishment (prison)can stop crime from.
Except you also subscribe to " stealing is not corruption" theory.

Now mr foresnsic expert, answer this question;
was it only Buhari's result that was forged ot the entire results of all the students on the result sheet. There are many other names on the result sheet, are you implying that the results of these prominent Nigerians were faked along with Buhari's own. That is a very weighty allegation.

Do you admit that the result was forged based on your request!? Must yoube a criminal and justify yourself with other criminals to judge criminals? C'mon, buhari has a criminal case hanging on his neckand cannot be wished away by another crime,ok? Other names on the result is no issue here because they are not contesting for 2015 inec election, only buhari among all other contestants 9 or 11 who complied 4 months ago only buhari of all people have failed up till now to meet inec's requirements according to constitution but only plays on emotion of the heated situation now

Did you know that buhari is still yet to claim responsibility of this controversial result document? According to the issuer? Inec is yet to have it in their custudy up till today even after winning primaries, is that not corruption and wayo_wayo paddy_paddy just the way fela kuti blast buhari in 1985 go and listen to fellas album ''beast of no nation" bihari was the beast and cannot change, ask me why, most of our elders still prefers chewining stick over a hygienic toothbrush, that's the way buhari wants to force us to his rusted ways he ruled by stripping every Nigerian of their fundamentals of human rights under his military rule. Pathetic!

emiye:
Which forensic analyst conducts analysis on photo copied document ? Haba. Nigerians are not that dumb ke.....

Photocopiers usually leaves distortion/ lines on photocopied document. Stop creating a bubble , that will burst in your face

The more you people try to discard this forgry issue, the more it stinks if you still think its a photocopier issue, its more than that,

i would like to use your own uploaded version of the document from channels tv, we have 18 good indicting proofs, so you can come with another excuse and i will show you more.

first of all do you take a look at the channels tv version(i am not saying that channels responsible for the error) of the document and see that 'those who criminally fabricate that document desperately tried to cover their blushes? lets see what they do

1 They [size=14pt](channells tellevision's version) severed 'cut away' or deliberately crop a part of buhari's name ( 'HAMED' instead of 'MOHAMED' from the version that you uploaded which is different from what the premium times which puts it at 'mohamed' innitially uploaded by premium times[/size]


2, Deliberately changing whole color outrightly to blue color but then 'specimen H1' in the opening page embeded in 'specimen H' still different from rest of document as the

2a, blue color fades in the area

2b, the row lines are broken while the row lines outside 'specimen H' in the opening page stands unbroken.

[size=14pt]punch newspapers and other leading dailies were compromised (likely an error from the mischief makers and not channels tv's fault) to use the same channels controversial version that had 'HAMED' and divert people to be concerned with the statement and not the cambridge forged document.[/size]

Jarus:
Six, that the result reads “Mohammed Buhari”.

Well, maybe I should also throw away my WAEC-issued o’level certificate despite carrying my picture. After all, the name reads “Oyewale Tunji Surajudheen”, and my official name currently reads “Oyewale, Surajudeen Oyetunji”, which was the spelling I used when I wrote my UME in 2000, just few months after my WASSCE. It is the UME spelling that stuck till today.

@op I want to first take you on point six of your rebuttals

You easily diversified to someone telling you to throw away your waec cert, is that the issue here?

1, will you need an affidavit or newspaper advert to clarify that change of name from 'tunji' to 'olatunji' in an event of using The former to gain an admission for further studies? Yes or no note that buhari has no change of name from muhammadu to Mohammed in his affidavit or newspaper advert before inec till now I will paste the link to his affidavit later
2 will a bank teller be wrong to return a cheaque back you drawn with the name 'olatunji' but on the system before the teller you have tunji as the as acc name, yes or no? Just pick on before we proceed.

onatisi:
Going to court will only turn apc and its corrupt presidential candidates into overnight heroes. Because eventually buhari will be disqualified and apc will tell nigerians that buhari would have changed the nation and bla bla bla.this will give the party more popularity. By bringing out this fake statement of result ,it is like pushing or trying to trick pdp into going to court. But we have a President who is always calm and calculating,who seems to have read apc games. The way it is now ,many more nigerians are gradually becoming aware of buhari fake certificate and the more it goes on the more peoples idea and perception about buhari will change. What gej is doing is to make every nigerian see the type of party apc is. And most importantly,by not going to court gej is sending a strong message to the northern political elites. They know the meaning and they can decode pdp silence about buhari certificate.

. Let PDP to court at least to commit buhari into admitting this forged document first, then they can withdraw the case and let him contest, because it will serve as a reference point before they start to deny the document allegedly from Cambridge duly forged.

mrmetoo1:
Software?? Did you just throw software in my face?? What does this even mean?? Throwing out software to me is the same thing as just saying technology. For offshore forensics, most of those cases are tax evasion or embezzlement cases. If you're going to carry out an analysis on notes to determine the authenticity, yes you need the physical notes.

don't mind them, they are trying to change the topic from analysis on a particular named document and muddle it up with accounting analysis stuff that got their own different format in accounting field. Up till now None of them have come out with rebutalls to issues raised on samples 1To 4 but fool people by blurring their own copies now that we expose it in larger larger form they felt threatened

And why other presidential candidates have their results with inec ever since they pick the form months ago before the primaries, buhari is the only candidate without an attached certificate with inec to authenticate his affidavit as required by the constitution

The strongest evidence buhari has got is at best controversial, and I am sure that he may deny this or distance himself from this forged document from his school, it will br funny though as the issue rages on, it will look like a drama, that's why he he is yet to admit it, and yet to submit it to inec.

Les:
Go share it on sammy okposo's tweeter account, he nlebroyuow has a reason to retract his tendered apology....

never will I ever retract this sure story, unless I am not 150% sure, okposo is different fr! Bernimoore ok

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisu_Buhari

''jama'atul ah'lus sunna lid Da'awalis jihad'' translates as ''western Education is a sin''

hence, why should you treasure a sinfull object like certificate issued by western influence?

salisu Buhari wants to continue as a muslim but take western cetificate for granted as a ''haram'' only to be hunted by it and he was booted out as the ever first democratic speaker house of reps casualty!


Muhhamadu buhari does not even feel that he owe anybody any explanation over his failure to ''authenticate his sworn Affidavid with the certificate as required by the 'ammended 2011' electoral act, though INEC cannot disqualify a candidate, but the court only an do that!

now a forged document was hurriedly and criminally concorted and fabricated as a cover up, and if the school principal of the former provincial nothern school now known as a sec school in katsina got arraigned for 'aiding and abbetting crime'' in forgery will it be an injustice?

so why are the ''Buharis'' Hunted by western education certificate'' that they abhore?

[size=14pt]If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth............ Hitler[/size]

the yoruba race has succumb to lies from Tinubu (who Obasanjo also accused of certificate forgery, ''read the wikipedia link above'') from the ''born to rule'' and therefore surrendered to mediocres, its a shame!

The calculation stem from the ''selling of the seat of the speaker of house of reps to the north by yoruba, to start the distraction for jonathan from the centre''

but then,

why are the ''Buharis'' Hunted by western education certificate''

vicadex07:
Ode, it is called "statement of result" and not certificate for a reason. They are usually typed manually on a school's letterhead and awarded to the studenthe ttn the absense of a certificate

you mean that you are just a bench warmer on this forum with a task to 'tickle your ears' on issues but throw insult at will ? If we pound yam and keep same in leaves also cook soup and keep in groundnut shell, those that will be satisfied will be ''' baa gun iyan si inu ewe, taa de se obe si inu epo epa, eni ti o ba maa yo a kuku yo. now, Did I mention or highlight anything like '' statement of result? for your information [size=14pt]check the opening (sample 1) that the topic is based before you even comment. The issue here was not on statement released but the '' purported Cambridge wasc record pasted as the record relied on from Cambridge[/size] , so are you down on your high horse to now defend the forgery on the purpoted Cambridge printout? I guess you can't, and its funny

MY personanal analysis of Gen Buhari's result as released by premium Times,

Note; i do not represent PDP or work for them, i support them to the extent that i see jonathan as a humble man who says something that people are not taking seriously but is part of the solution to curruption, he says...''The use of modern technologies is a powerful tool to fight corruption'' note that i also aknowledge that these technonogies also has its own demerits of being used to promote curruption.

As the controversy rages on, i invited some of my colleages one of them was a 'forensic Analyst who specialises in detecting forged documents, he circles grey areas on the result document and ask for time, on my own part too i take a carefull look at the enlarged format, to crosscheck those circled areas

Hours later, my friend(name witheld) who was the analyst suggests in his analysis that the document was forged, he used extra softwares on his 'mark' laptop to expose a hidden copy of a document that was carefully embeded in on another document.

if Buhari will be seen as the right man to prosecute criminals that forge bank documents or any other document, he 'Buhari should come out with cleaan hands

My friend who is the Forensic analyst cites 18 good manipulations on Buhari's alleged result released to Prem.Times mag. which i dont really have the time to copy here. he said that he can prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was a forgery ''FREE OF CHARGE' in a court of law.

note; mere microsoft office picture manager, paint or opera cannot expose the whole details, you need a more higher versions with more mega-pixels

but to cut the story short, i summarised briefly some points below, here it is (note; you need to zoom the images below for full understanding)

1. imposition of one document on another (sample 1 and sample 2) (pupple and pink color only for illustration pls note its ours)
2. yellow lines 'D' in (sample 3) are Added lines to cover-up traces of imposition of specimen (H1) and column lines where names (specimen H1) are printed do not align with the blank columns (note; rectangular tiny line was only for illustration and nor part of doc)
3. sample 4, more on column lines where names (specimen H1) are printed do not align [/b] with the blank columns (note, yellow highlighted lines was introduced only (as an) illustration and 'not part of doc' )

[size=14pt]coded post G*[/size]

true2god:
The BARRISTER of JW will always live on lies and deflections. There is no any official prophesy from Assemblies of God, be it 1914 or any other date, when armageddon will happen .

Create a thread where Assemblies of God made a false prophesy (like your watchtower), so that we can discuss it.The only organization still holding unto this indefensive and unsensible lies (1914 christ 'presense') is the watchtower which you are defending.

Go and read 1984 edition of 'FOREVER YOU CAN LIVE IN PARADISE EARTH'.

I wonder how honest you could be in real life when you defend lies with all your time\energy. If watchtower GB is reading NL, they will be impress with your gullibility and pseudo-knowledge, and this will do you no good.

Have you put on your big lenses like your brother Emusan to read the obvious thing you are denying in bold up there; lets start with 1914 and 1916

http://jehovah.to/exe/general/prophetic.htm
check under the heading; in the link above;

[size=14pt]THE ISSUE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE ASSEMBLIES OF GOD CHURCH[/size]

[size=14pt]A leading Assemblies of God official, Thomas M. Chalmers, in a sermon delivered at the Assembly of God Church, Springfield, Missouri, [b]in the early 1920's made predictions[/b] based upon his exegesis of Ezekiel 38. In part, he stated, ** "...In half a dozen or a dozen years more (I don't think it will be a dozen years), some fine morning the inhabitants of Jerusalem will see a great cloud (see verse 16) - in a few minutes the cloud will develop a great cloud of airplanes landing tens of thousands of men on the soil of Palestine..." Chalmers' predictions failed to occur[/size]

compare that to berth-sarim issue of the jw in 1925*

During World War I(1914), The Weekly Evangel, an official publication of the Assemblies of God, carried this prediction:* "We are not yet in the Armageddon struggle proper, but at its commencement, and it may be, if students of prophecy read the signs aright, that Christ will come before the present war closes, and before Armageddon... The war preliminary to Armageddon, it seems, has commenced."

[size=14pt]Changes in 1916 edition of The Weekly Evangel, an official publication of the Assemblies of God[/size]

The May 13, 1916 edition of The Weekly Evangel, pages 6-9, carried an article headed "The Times of the Gentiles" in which more predictions were made. Among them was the statement that "As Israel lost the rule of their land at the beginning of these Gentile Times (606 B.C.E. according to the author of this article), it would seem that the first terminal date would mark some kind of a beginning of the restoration of the land. Does not this give great significance to the Zionist movement on the part of the Jews?... How inspiring is the thought that, if 1915, or 1916 shall prove to be the first terminal date, then the nineteen years more to 1934 or 1935 may cover the end time with its whirl of events, including the reign of the 'ten kings' the Antichrist, the 7-year covenant...".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Christian_religious_predictions


i believe objective readers of this thread can really see why those shouting 'kill them till they grow' to these jw are the worst , i have exposed at least 3 individuals, on this thread (1)paulgrundy,*pirating another persons work while he impersonates as the person, now reduced to a spectator in his own thread (2)Emusan, in my response in (My response coded F1* above on this page) (3)true2God, saying that There is no any official prophesy from Assemblies of God, be it 1914 or any other date, when armageddon will happen

paulGrundy:
I don't have any particular doctrine per say, but let's say I tend towards protestant evangelicals. I attend a church that upholds sola scriptural, but that is open to other denominations.

Having no particular doctrine per say means you are unstable!
no wonder you are pirating paulgrundy's work,

can we say that you are part of the people peter described as unstable people who twist the Scriptures

2 peter 3
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.


pls
17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked
you are trying to carry people away as your prey? i cant laugh o!

note, remember that you personally invites me to this thread in pg 0, so no offence

.

true2god:
Dont deflect the argument as usual, stick to the topic bro. You can as well open a thread on Assemblies of God 'prophesies' or scandals in Assemblies of God church, whichever topic you might want to use.

This thread is all about the trademake lies JW is telling, concerning 1914, which they do not want to stop till now, but are fine-tuning it.

Dont be a BARRISTER for lies and confusions.

you have NOT denied that your church(Assemblies of God also ADVOCATE such trademake lies either; the issue is relating to the topic, and will be discussed right here so that the forum will understand the position of the jw. thanks for joining issues with the 1914 issue

i repeat again that;

1, your church(True2God's church; The Assemblies of God church Actually predicted armageddon in 1914, and changes to 1919 and 1945, among numerous other expectations, true or false

what scares you to deny my claim? your silence to either admit or deny could be termed as 'you consented'


2, Excomunication issue, Assasination attempt on your church's Gen Sup. shall be for another thread

so shall we fire on? on (1) above

true2god:
The genesis of all this argument is the 1914 JW trademark false prophesy which they (Jehovah witness) still hold as 'bible truth' till date, despite the fact that this 1914 falsehood had been debuked severally as a lie.

While other dates prophesied (1918, 1925, 1975, 1984) had been jetisoned (by the same watchtower as 'mistakes'), the 1914 was retained because so much time, money, energy, public info had been invested on the year 1914 as a bedrock of modern JW doctrine and any attempt at debukin the year, as another mistake, could have a significant effect on the watchtower movement as a whole.

So to keep the JW organization functioning and retain membership loyalty, the 1914 fallasy must remain as an officially sanctioned doctrine that must not be questioned by any JW member (or else he\she will be disfellowshipped).

However, the doctrine of 'the generation that witnessed\saw 1914' must be consistently tailored to always meet current scriptural needs (as the light gets brighter) because the JW doctrines are prone to changes (as deemed necessary by the governing body, the discreet slaves at Brooklyn office of the watchtower organization).

see who is talking about 1914 and armagedon, i cant laugh

1, your church Assemblies of God church predicted armageddon in 1914, and changes to 1919 and 1945, true or false, goolgle that now
2, your church doctrine do not include ''excomunication of members'' but hypocritically, you have embraced it through the back door as your light is getting better


Reverend Emeka was reported to have been excommunicated by the AGC after allegations of misappropriation of funds and several misconducts were levelled against him
ist it a shame that assasination attempt is made by members of your church to the General Superintendent of Assemblies Of God Church Reverend Emeka

[size=14pt]'Some Pastors Plan To Assassinate Me' - General Superintendent Cries Out[/size]
http://pulse.ng/religion/assemblies-of-god-church-some-pastors-plan-to-assassinate-me-general-superintendent-cries-out-id3252230.html

lets start with that one too, i want to engage you!

Emusan:
Firstly, God didn't change His promise it is you who decided to twist God's word to suit false teaching.

Who is changing the 'issue here to promise'? Emusan
who is forcing 'reasons' on this issue? Emusan?

back to the topic; Jehovahs Witnesses Alive In 1914 Will Witness The End Of The World

as you can see the topic, 'reasons why' is not an issue here, but rather, why those who are expected to be around in 1914 have hrastically reduced now, and yet the end has not come! the OP did NOT include 'reasons (in his submissions in the Topic itself but focuses on variances in the age(s) of those alive in 1914 and why the end has not come or yet to come whereby those who are alive in 1914 that are around now and are Jw are few and dwindling.

The promise of God is "Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt." Exo 3:10 KJV

This promise of God wasn't directed to the elders as you claimed but THE CHILDREN of Israel

i am laughing in yoruba hehehe (yooguyz/paulgrundy) laugh the same way too so permit me, back to the discussion


in Exodus 3:10 above, God was instructing and delegating an assignment to moses, oga Emusan or what did you call yourself?

how this 'delegating of an assignment or oversight of bringing out the isrealites out of egypt became a 'straw-promise' as speculated by Emusan 'ko ye mi rara'

here is the message God delegate as an assigment to moses, read bolded

Gen 3:9-11

9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them.

10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee(moses) unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt
11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt?


you see why i say that you need lenses.

NOTE: I'm not saying the elders are not Israelite but the message is for [size=14pt]the WHOLE children of Israel[/size].

The message in Gen 3:10 is all about God directing Moses on 'exactly the extent of what to tell pharaoh' namely; bringing forth the children of Israel out of Egypt and not for moses to declare ''the destination'' which include cannan (the promised land) to pharaoh as it will amount to 'exposing isreal's destination 'an imformation not meant for pharaoh, (that explains why God did not include 'land of cannan etc promise land as a message to be included for pharaoh in Gen 3:10) which you wrongly mistake for a promise

here is the promise again and i affirm again;

Exodus 3:16,17
16 “Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to them, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—appeared to me and said: I have watched over you and have seen what has been done to you in Egypt. 17 And I have promised to bring you(elders with whole isreal) up out of your misery in Egypt into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—a land flowing with milk and honey.



if internet is handy then, the isreal elders can boast on the internet that 'we have been personally assured by God' that we shall enter the promise land

and someone who monitors that on the net and watch how all the elders assured personally all died without entering the land but for another generation to be the beneficiaries will stress variances for sure. (you did not comment on the internet factor if available then)

Even though you might not aware of this

you see your life? forcing your opinion on me!

but you've already made it clear in your post that THE ELDERS ALREADY KNEW THAT ALL OF THEM [size=14pt]WON'T[/size] ENTER, here is your statement "...the Israel elders can assure you that most of them will enter the promise land..."[/size]

do you see [b]won't (bolded) in my statement? you force it, right! when i say ''that most of them will enter the promise land'' i never allude they they knew that they wont enter the land, but rather i was considering the older ones who are very old among the elders ok?

your next post is not an issue here, as i have stated the reason, the topic is NOT ABOUT REASON, but only about variances with respect to fufilment of a prophecy;
[s]
The desire of God is to take them to the promise land but they rebel against God, SHORTLY AFTER the Egyptians were drown Moses KNEW EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE PEOPLE THAT'S why Moses gave them the status to follow in other for them to reach the promise land.

"And he cried unto the LORD; and the LORD shewed him a tree, which when he had cast into the waters, the waters were made sweet: [size=14pt]there he(Moses) made for them a statute and an ordinance, and there he proved them,[/size] 26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee." Exo 15:25-26 KJV

NOT THAT GOD CHANGED HIS PROMISE because had it been that God actually changed His promise NONE of the Israelite INCLUDING their next generation will enter the Land BUT God remains a just God who can't compromise His standard WHICH is ALL SINNERS MUST NOT GO UNPUNISH.

[/s]

[s]Emusan; I hope you know the [size=14pt]reason why[/size] they died? God is a covenant keeping God, so why would God can be called a covenant keeper and when He keeps changing in His promise? [/s]

''reason why'' not an issue here

Emusan; Based on the above explanations NOW COMPARE THAT MESSAGE of Moses to Watchtower teaching "...The "great crowd," [size=14pt]including many of the earliest members thereof,[/size] will survive into the "new earth." Survival into a New Earth (1984) p.184-185

do you see ''reasons quoted alongside? reasons why it changed was not included by the op! so its not an issue here, ok

"Prophetic information in the Bible about our day details the following: ...The survival of at least some of the generation that saw the beginning of "the conclusion of the system of things." True Peace And Security (1986) p.70

reasons why it changed was not included by the op! so its not an issue here

[size=14pt]"Some who saw the events of 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world."[/size] Reasoning from the Scriptures (1989) p.200

reasons why it changed was not included by the op again! and so its not an issue here, its outside the topic's jurisdiction!

If this people are no more alive today, is it that they rebel against God?

rebel is a reason you are giving here, its outside the topic's jurisdiction! and not included in the allegded quoted magazines.

its good to have more of your replies blown up like this if you try to change the topic.

[size=14pt]My response coded F1* [/size]

@Emusan, i am going to build my response to your post starting from bottom to top

Emusan:
in fact this particular one shows how you lack scriptural knowledge because it's so glaring that you lack it for using these two scriptures which their message were so straight forward.

really? ok lets see how brilliant you were;

Emusan:
Genesis 15:13 says "...they will be oppressed for four hundred years" The statement of Genesis is so cleared because people can see that the verse is only talking about THE YEARS THEY WILL ONLY BE OPPRESSED not all the years of their dwelling and oppression.

Easy! Easy!! i am not going very far to prove you wrong that Genesis 15:13 PROPHECY is NOT only talking about THE YEARS THEY WILL ONLY BE OPPRESSED BUT RATHER all the years of their dwelling and oppression

the solution is not far fetched as bible 'interprets itself' so, i have more than 6 bible refferences about prophecy of isreal lifespan in egypt recorded in Genesis 15:13 let me pick the first of the verses from new testament that knock your argument out. Acts 7:6

paul apostle did not agree with you Emusan on this, what you are trying to separate was summed up as 'strangers' by paul, maybe they dwell or enslaved or mistreated sum up to the the bottom line that 'they are strangers in egypt'


[size=14pt]Acts 7:6
God spoke to him(Abraham) in this way: 'For four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated.[/size]

'strangers in egypt' is the word that encapsulate their time of; enslavement and mistreattment and oppression.

Now after reading Acts 7:6, i still lack scriptural knowledge in your own short sighted opinion?

Emusan:
Genesis 15:13 says "...they will be oppressed for four hundred years" [size=14pt]which you Bolden yourself[/size] WHEREAS Exodus 12:40-41 only SUM UP ALL THE YEARS THEY DWELT and BE OPPRESSED in the Land of Egypt which you Bolden too "The time that the people of Israel dwelt in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years..."

you jumped what i first Bolden in Genesis 15:13, why? here is my original post see it again

Bernimoore;
(2)* Genesis 15:13 Then the LORD said to Abram, "Know of a surety that your descendants will be sojourners(strangers kjv*) in a land that is not theirs, and will be slaves there, and they will be oppressed for four hundred years

so why do you remove the first clause (in blue that i equally bolden) ? is it deliberate or you did not see it?

[size=14pt](Affirmation coded F1*a) i affirm that The prophecy in Gen 15:13(seconded by Acts 7:6 in OT) which actually sum up the whole period that isrealites will be strangers(including their oppression/slavery) as 400 yrs

while Exo 3:10 shows variance or changes to the period to 430 yrs (400yrs-430yrs) variance
validates why 1914 cannot be brush aside, but expectation can be delayed even the Assemblies of God church was sure of that yr 1914 [/size]



[size=14pt]you need big lenses to see it[/size]?

MzNelly:
It really doesn't bother me, tho. Each to their own, I say.

Tell me what you believe in. What are your doctrines?

The person you are discussing with is preparing his response to your request in the post above, he seemed to be very slow in his response, maybe due to the fact that you are making him look 'one dimentional' pls bear with him, he needs time to continue from where you both reached in the discussion

Yooguyz:
biblespeaks and bernimore are the same handle please take note. i had already exposed him in this thread below.

https://www.nairaland.com/1990742/bernimore-truthislight-canticles-loveroftruth-biblespeaks


btw where is paulGrundy? :-

pastor yooguyz

how are your shepherds?

having debunked your frivolous claim, you ran away on this thread for almost a month now;

https://www.nairaland.com/2005419/debunked-bernimore-truthislight-canticles-loveroftruth


(Ed*) E1 alledged to be E2,E3 and E5 Debunked

BERNIMORE/truthislight/CANTICLES exposed as BIBLESPEAKS:

=Yooguyz post=

BIBLESPEAKS: This Yooguy[b]s[/b] abi PaulGrundy of a guy is a sick freak o.

TITLE OF THE THREAD: self service leads to Homosexuality - Watchtower.

QUOTATION FROM WATCHTOWER: self service can lead to Homosexuality.

I don't know what exactly is wrong with him. Looks like his homosexual practices are eating up his brain.
Yooguys/Paulgrundy,by creating this thread you rather made a fool of yourself as you've always done.

Notice how my moniker was spelt above with 's' instead of 'z'

Now observe how BERNIMORE spelt my moniker with 's' instead of 'z'

BERNIMORE: yooguys, what is the essence of quoting bible verses when you dont even believe in those verses as you wrote below

[size=14pt]BERNIMORE is the only handle in nairaland that spells my name as Yooguys instead of yooguyz[/size]

yooguyz claims that i Bernimoore is the only person in nairaland that spells his name as Yooguys instead of yooguyz

when i seached nairaland i discovered other person who spelt among other numerous Yooguys instead of yooguyz

just to mention one of the person his name is Geovanni 24 i chose geovanni case of calling yooguyz as yooguy's'
https://www.nairaland.com/1439402/christians-chatbox/14

geovanni24[size=16pt](m): 6:48pm[/size]

This comment is strictly for @yooguys...ii understand that you are a pastor, pastoring A church of about 3000 members!...Now from your views on the Gay attitude, ii can easily deduce that you have some gay tendencies that you have put under control and ii applaud you for that, since gay is a thing of the mind...Now being a pastor of such an overwhelming crowd, hw do you cope with the large number of your male members who could cme T̶̲̥̅Ơ̴͡ you for councelling?...don't you think you are not honest T̶̲̥̅Ơ̴͡ yourself, iwhen the spirit of Gay is hovering arround your personality,rather. Than rebuking it for life and relinquishing its hold on you psychologically in order T̶̲̥̅Ơ̴͡ serve God better ?...2. If a psychological gay member should come T̶̲̥̅Ơ̴͡ you for. Deliverance/councelling...its assumed you both are faced with the same ordeal, HO̶̲̥̅̶̷̩̥̊͡ do you intend T̶̲̥̅Ơ̴͡ go about it?.....Beside this,since I'm convinced that you are a through man of God, ii will like T̶̲̥̅Ơ̴͡ know you personally, but on anonymous ground, cos of the position you occupy ii believe M̶̲̥̅γ̲̣̣̥ acquaintance with you will help strengthen M̶̲̥̅γ̲̣̣̥ relationship with God and also edify M̶̲̥̅γ̲̣̣̥ view on sexuality and intimate immorality...ii also used T̶̲̥̅Ơ̴͡ be effeminate in M̶̲̥̅γ̲̣̣̥ childhood, although ii was able T̶̲̥̅Ơ̴͡ overcme it,but ii will most gratefully appreciate your enlightenment on this menace!....plz kindly email me sir......trailblazer25@yahoo.com. Ii look forward T̶̲̥̅Ơ̴͡ receiving your email. Tanks sir!

Emusan:
Tell me how Moses change in his teaching about God

[s]I wonder how JWs reason because how can the FOUNDER teach WORSHIPPING of Jesus and his followers called such teaching an idolatry?

My main concern is this, Jehovah hates idolatry, THEN why will Jehovah allow Russell to die as idolatry when it is Holyspirit Himself that is directing Russell? [/s]

one at a time, i was replying your post on pg 0,

Emusan
I will soon publish my book titled "why history doesn't favour JWs?"

dont jam-pack topics muddle up issues okay! the topic remains Jehovahs Witnesses Alive In 1914 Will Witness The End Of The World

now lets see even Gods chosen people, and see changes in timing of predictions as well as peoples expectations

(1)*, Moses


Moses delivaered a message of assurance to the elders of isreal assuring them of leaving egypt for a green(er)land/pasture ; promised land, and based on that assurance that they(the elders) will inherit and phisically witness the promise land

Exodus 3:16,17
16 “Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to them, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—appeared to me and said: I have watched over you and have seen what has been done to you in Egypt. 17 And I have promised to bring you up out of your misery in Egypt into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—a land flowing with milk and honey.


if we had internet then the isreal elders can assure you that most of them will enter the promise land based on moses pronoucements in exodus above

but what happened

They walked 40 years in the wilderness until all the elderly men(who received the firsthand promise) and all "men of war" who came out of Egypt had died. A total of 603,550 males excluding women and children came out of egypt, only (2 boys joshua and caleb) from the (1st) first generation who left egypt who were very young did enter the promise land, but moses himself and Aaron who delivered the message and who also nurse the feeling that the will enter the promise land DID NOT enter,

Deuteronomy 4:21
The LORD was angry with me because of you, and he solemnly swore that I would not cross the Jordan and enter the good land the LORD your God is giving you as your inheritance.

note; changed expectations

......Moses was inclusive of the 'first isrealite census which God ordered' (603,550 males excluding women and children) so as to know the exact amount of those who will leave for the promise land,(but that promised generation all (but only 2 persons remaining) perished

.......It was Another generation that was raised in the wilderness, who actually entered the promise land.



1, if we had internet then, are you not going to be monitoring their deaths, changes and variances and mock their gullible hope, even labeling the source of those prophets as unreliable?

2, will you still trust message from prophets who claim to have a promise to the isrealites, or doubt those prophets based on the inconsistencies in the previous messages from other prophets to isrealites?


Joshua 5:4 NKJV

4 All the people who came out of Egypt who were males, all the men of war, had died in the wilderness on the way, after they had come out of Egypt.

why would God's promise vary with time?(400 yrs varied to 450yrs)

(2)* Genesis 15:13 Then the LORD said to Abram, "Know of a surety that your descendants will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs, and will be slaves there, and they will be oppressed for four hundred years


Exodus 12:40,41 The time that the people of Israel dwelt in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years. And at the end of four hundred and thirty years, on that very day, all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.

lets start with this 1,2* above

paulGrundy:
No am not the owner of the site, I only [b]chose to use the owners name as my username because of the great admiration I have for his intelligence.

having admitted that you are not paulgrundy in your own statement above i believe that you are aware of nairaland rule number 9; Don't use Nairaland for illegal acts, e.g fraud, piracy, and spreading malware

you pirated paulgrundy's work on NL* true or false?

you also forgot to add that

(2)That you uploaded the real paulgrundy's picture who was 'not a nairaland member without a permission'
(3) and you actually pose as the real paulgrundy when answering Efere701 on the very first thread; 'my story' when you just registered on NL just 2 days prior to 26th september that you engage Efere701 who knew not that you are not real paulgrundy you said '' Well people change, maybe I just realized that JW's are honest and sincere people, maybe my ideologies are changing''

My Story By Paul Grundy Sep 26 www.nairaland.com/1918340/story-paul-grundy

paulGrundy:

Thank you Mr Efere701 for honoring my thread,

I guess you are suprised at the calm and polite manner I respond to JW's. Well people change, maybe I just realized that JW's are honest and sincere people, maybe my ideologies are changing. But one thing I have learnt is to be respectful to other peoples religious views even though you don't agree with them.

not until i put a sustained pressure on you to reveal truth then you start to 'adjust posts'

below [size=14pt]here is a picture you uploaded on NL which is not your picture[/size] https://www.nairaland.com/paulgrundy

for MZNelly only*

you will need to go through this link below as a guardiance, and know where you are about to be commited as a jehovahs witness, nice conversation though

https://www.nairaland.com/1537050/tested-trusted-ways-someone-leave

It is only after a Witness has accepted that the Faithful and
Discreet Slave makes mistakes that doctrine becomes interesting to discuss, as Watchtower doctrine is simplistic and flawed in many areas.
A safe topic to discuss is the unreasonableness of believing
"this good news has been
preached in the entire inhabited world" by Jehovah’s Witnesses,
and salvation depends on how people respond to the Witness message. Most people know
nothing about Jehovah’s
Witnesses, over 3 billion have never even heard of them. A Witness may respond that they
don't judge people, but the Watchtower is clear that billions will die at Armageddon.
(Quote) (Report) (Like) (Share)
Re: Tested And Trusted Ways To Help Someone Leave The Watchtower Cult. by Yooguyz(m): 3:59pm On Dec 01, 2013

Techniques

To get through to a Witness you need to use the Socratic method
of asking questions. If you
directly attack the organisation or its teachings a Jehovah’s
Witness will get very defensive.
You will see their eyes glaze over and then they will start reciting
Watchtower justifications by rote. At that point you are not helping them but just letting them reinforce their
indoctrination.
You will not be able to get a witness to look at information on the Internet at first, as they have been conditioned to believe it is all lies from bitter apostates.
Rather, you will need to discuss a point of interest, and then get a
quote from a Watchtower to back up what you are discussing.
Hopefully, they will eventually start to want to look further with
an open mind, and it is not until that stage that recommending they read Crisis Of Conscience will be effective.
Likewise, knowing when to introduce scandalous topics, such as the Watchtower's
involvement with the United Nations or craddle-robber crisis, is
difficult. Whilst awareness of these topics has resulted in tens
of thousands leaving, if they are introduced too early you will be
accused of being a gullible, bitter
apostate. These topics require the person to be ready to read and accept information written
outside the pages of the
Watchtower, which only comes
after they have learnt to question the "Faithful and Discreet Slave".
Stick to one topic at a time, and even one topic a day. A Witness will jump around and side track the discussion every time a difficult question or topic is raised. Stay firm in keeping the
discussion on track, and getting an answer. Make sure they really
answered the question before moving on. If a statement is made that you know is not true,
make them support what they said with evidence. You are not trying to win an argument, but
just to make them think.
A common Witness theme is that
disagreeing with Jehovah's Witnesses is disagreeing with
the Bible, and that leaving the
Organisation is leaving Jehovah.
You will need to regularly
reinforce that the Watchtower contains just one interpretation
of the Bible, one that you have found to be very simplistic and inaccurate. Many former Witnesses still believe the Bible
and in God, but do not want to follow what they have concluded is a damaging belief system.

Whilst discussing various topics, you will sometimes find a
Witness being dogmatic that you are wrong about Watchtower doctrine or history when you
know you are not. Rather then telling them they are wrong, make them commit to that being
an important point. For instance,a conversation may go as follows:

You: God does not direct
Information provided in the Watchtower. For instance did you
realize it was falsely predicted
that the end would come in 1914?

JW: They never said the end would be in 1914, just the end of the Gentile Times.

You: How would you feel if they wrongfully predicted the end for
1914? Don’t you think that is a good indication Jehovah does not direct the Slave?

JW: Well … (they may say yes or no)
If they agree it is good indication of not being directed, then ask
them how they would feel if you were able to find some quotes?
On the other hand, they may claim they don’t care, as the light
gets brighter. That is a good topic for another time, but stick to this topic and continue that
not only did they make these wrong predictions but also what really offended you is that they
have often lied about what they said. Witnesses are often more affected finding out the dishonesty of the Watchtower than about the errors.
For anyone born into the
religion, even more important is to make him or her recognize
that the main reason they believe the Watchtower is the truth is because they were raised a Jehovah’s Witness. If they were
raised a Mormon, then they would be equally convinced that
Mormons are the truth. Then you can ask they put themselves in a
position of being raised a
Mormon. Do they think they would have ever changed to being a Witness? If they were a
Mormon and started studying with Jehovah’s Witnesses and found out that the Watchtower
said the end would be in 1914, or that they built Beth Sarim because Abraham was going to
be resurrected in 1925 and live there, would there be any chance
they would have converted?
It is important to try not to get upset in the conversations, and
that can be a lot harder than expected when being confronted
with what you will quickly see as stubborn refusal to accept logic.

Becoming upset just reinforces the Witness notion that you are
unhappy with where you are. Try to stay light hearted, calm, and
happy, as a Witness will expect you will be filled with rage. If things get heated, nothing will
be accomplished, so save the conversation for another day

@MZNelly
How are you?

vooks:
paulgrundy,
Do you share your faith with JWs?

you ask a simple question from paulgrundy* based on what he deposed on his profile;

[size=14pt]I am the author of jwfacts.com and here is my story[/size]:

I was raised a Jehovah's Witness by loving parents. My grandmothers, an aunty and uncle and some cousins were Jehovah's Witnesses. After I left home, my father spent twenty years as a Circuit Overseer and my sister and her husband spent time in Bethel prior to having children. I grew up in a congregation where many older Witnesses expressed the strictly fundamental viewpoint that Jehovah personally directed the Organization and soon would destroy anyone that was not a Jehovah's Witness. As promoted in the Watchtower, I thought I was never going to die; I did not even expect to finish school prior to Armageddon. However, Armageddon had not arrived by the time I matriculated so, unusually for Witnesses in the 1980's, my parents were open-minded enough to encourage me to obtain a University degree. I felt I was able to justify obtaining a higher education by studying part-time whilst regular pioneering. I did not end up doing a professional year, as after university I went straight to Bethel.

he dodged the question https://www.nairaland.com/1918340/story-paul-grundy,