₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Now i know your problem it's the word "Commandments"
But let me enlighten you!
Commandments doesn't literally means the laws God gave the Israelites as a Covenant between God and that nation. It simply means the principles and standards set to help build a lasting relationship between two persons or peoples!
For instance God's word said:

My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother: Proverbs 1:8

Now see the meaning of Commandment:

©A divinely ordained command, especially one of the Ten Commandments.

©Something that must be obeyed; a command or edict.

©The act of commanding; exercise of authority.

©The offence of commanding or inducing another to violate the law.

So when God's word says "Commandments" it encompasses all the instructions God gave His people from Genesis to Revelation. And since Jesus' sacrificial death the laws God set as a bond between the nation of Israel and Himself is no more as the nation kept breaking that covenant. So it's the new covenant that stands as a connection between God and His people today not the old laws! Romans 10:4

Jesus kept those laws as a Jew until He finally accomplished his earthly mission!

For instance, the Jews must present themselves before their God every Sabbath day but after Jesus' death and resurrection he never entered the temple or any synagogue again. WHY because the law (Commandment) that's say so is tied to the old Covenant which has been abolished after the death of Jesus!

The word commandement can mean any of the instructions or law given by God to man.
But if you read in context of what is written or said in a particular verse you would find the commandments been referred to.

This examples are obvious that they are referring to the 10commandments.

Only an dishonest person would claim the 10commandments is not the same with the command to Love ones neighbour and God.


Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Apostle Paul is telling us to obey the 10commandments as evidence of our love to God and our neighbours.

It's obvious Paul does not believe that 10commandments was abolished, so only you and JW, know were you got your lies from.

1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1 John 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.


The 10commandments prohibit Sin, it is the only set of laws in the entire Bible that describes what God forbids as sin.

Secondly which commandments is given to man that can honour God more than the 10commandments?

Which commandments can make one wise and holy other than the 10commandments?

Please answer this question.


Keep deceiving yourself ,even in the New convenant the law still exist and it is written in our hearts.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my LAWS into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


I guess it is the laws of JW or Nigeria that God says he would write in our hearts?


The commandments for the Jews to present themselves every Sabbath was contained in the laws of Moses. Mind you the Sabbath referred to here is the feast and cremional sabbaths and not the weekly Sabbath.

The question is, in the 10commandments is there any instructions for the Jews to carryout feasts and sacrifices?

MaxInDHouse:
There are two major Gods that's demanding worship from humans, one doesn't bother anyhow people choose to worship him as long as you feel like worshipping and you cherry pick the standard that suits you, even when you switch lanes from one form of worship to another on daily basis he is OK.
The other is strict with His own principles, He wants to help so He started by introducing Himself then He placed a mirror in the face of anyone who wants to be his friend (Mosaic Laws) after which He introduced the one and only model that's best in His sight.
The mirror (laws or commandments) are to make each sinner see how dirty he looks so as to know the areas they will work on to look good before the true God but at the introduction of the model (Jesus Christ) nobody needs the mirror (laws) anymore, what each person needs now is to keep looking at the role model and try to be just like him since the one giving the pass mark said Jesus got everything perfectly!
So if some people are still dragging the mirror with themselves all what an intelligent person will ask is "where are those who have been dressed well, let's see how far they're able to look like the model?" but insisting on looking at the mirror will continue to complicate issues as many are still dragging it without been able to present themselves for the exhibition!

See story telling.

Pure human reasoning, nothing divine.

You think Jesus kept the 10commandments so you would not keep them?

Than ask yourself why Jesus instructed us to obey the 10commandments to gain eternal life, Jesus instructed us to teach and obey the commandments.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

God's word says the entire duty of man not Jesus duty is to obey the commandments of God.


Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Obeying the 10commandments is our proof of our love to God and our neighbours so said Jesus.

I guess Jesus would show love to God on our behalf too?



JW are misleading people to Hell.

Colossians 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

MaxInDHouse:
You don't have any God!

A real God will have presentable worshipers through which people can say "these are the worshipers of this or that God" {Isaiah 43:10-12; Matthew 5:13-16; John 13:34-35; Act 1:8} so as long as there's no group to PRESENT as worshipers of your God it's simple your God doesn't exist at all!

Keep deceiving yourself.

God's group must be those who keep his commandments and not some group that fake love and brotherhood.
Everything JW claim, is done even better by other groups including Atheists.

MaxInDHouse:
His existence has nothing to do with worship if He didn't create us, He would have remained all alone. The reason why you're here typing all these is not to tell people to acknowledge God but to WORSHIP Him. So for your write-up to make real sense you should be able to drive home your point by PRESENTING the group of people PRACTICING what you're trying to say otherwise there's nothing to your write-up.

God is God on His own, it's the group of worshipers that makes others around know the qualities of your God not what the Bible says because there are many books referred to as "INSPIRED" therefore if it's just to continue arguing on what the book says you can do that for all eternity without any result. But when you're able to PRESENT a group of worshipers practicing what you're saying then you've spoken in volumes about the God you are talking about! Hebrews 12:1

The fact and truth is that God's group can not and never be JW.

Is that you do not understand English or you choose to deliberately deny the truth?

God's people are synonymous with commandments keeping.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

2 John 1:4 I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Dtruthspeaker:
See did I not put it directly to you that it is your desire and wish to remove The Law?

Thanks Be To God that TRUTH RULES and Always and all must confess The Truth.



In line with your desire and wish you have now therefore commenced your own personal process of Repealing God's Laws.

And your first attack is to Remove The Ordinances and Statutes and Judgements, THEREBY COMMITTING AN OFFENCE OF DIMINISHING AND TAKING AWAY FROM THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD CONTRARY TO DEUTERONOMY 4:2 (which you also abolished) but Revelation 22:19 Catches You)

Count 2:
That you, blueAgent, on the Wednesday, August 25 at 1:21pm Did Flagrantly Disregard and Absolute Disobey of Deuteronomy 12:22 thereby COMMITTING AN OFFENCE OF REBELLION AND DISOBEDIENCE TO THE MOST HIGH, WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF GOD, CONTRARY TO COMMANDMENT 1 OF THE LAWS OF THE GOD,

GUILTY OR NOT GUILTY?

Later, you would come to remove and abolish the remainder of The Law.

Then finally, you would remove and abolish the Bible.

There is no point responding to your comment, your arguments lacks merit and direction.

Dtruthspeaker:
The Curse and Woes of Lawyers shall also be upon since you come to play Law and pevert The Law!

No one goes to the mechanic to receive treatment when they are sick nor do they go to the carpenter when they have a head problem.

You are confused, God's law is not open for man's interpretation or manipulation.

You are deceiving yourself with your lawyer attitude.

What you fail to understand that God did not find it important to consult or use lawyers in delivering his word.

Look at all the Discples and Apostles how many of them were lawyers, many of them were fishermen,carpenters, traders e.t.c.

Stop deceiving yourself.

MaxInDHouse:
Your problem is inability to discern the import of the noun "God" there is no God without worshipers, if you can't PRESENT a group of people doing the will of your God it simply means your reading and studying the book (Bible) is futile! 2Timothy 3:7

You are confused.
So God was not existing or God enough before he created man and worshipers?

MaxInDHouse:
Don't worry, i've told you what i beleive and how we apply God's word as His people so go and settle with your fellow trinitarians.
We are OK!

It's like you forget things easily and it's obvious you are more intrested in pleasing men than God.

Dtruthspeaker:
Since you have abolished it, keep your abolishment until The Day The Judge shall Judge betwixt us.

Good, by till then, stop misquoting God's word.

MaxInDHouse:
It's simple God has a PEOPLE for his name and this has nothing to do with the laws of the first Covenant even though those Jews still thinks the laws (including the ten commandments) must be inculcated into the hearts of those in the New Covenant but the Apostles and God's Holy Spirit says "NO!" that's why they rounded up everything in just a speech:

For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!” Act 15:28-29

In the New Covenant God's Holy Spirit and the Apostles said the only laws that Christians should keep in mind are:

To avoid things sacrificed to idols like ~ birthdays, valentine day, christmas, new year and many that's not practiced by God's servants. We must not eat anything they present along with these things because they're doing it for demons! 1Corinthians 10:20

To abstain from blood ~ God's word condemned eating of blood {Genesis 9:4} so we must abstain from blood in any way Satan tries to present it (including blood transfusion)


To avoid animals strangled ~ meats that's not bled for the blood to come out, we mustn't eat because it's the same as eating blood!

To avoid sexual immorality ~ Homosexualism, Lesbianism, Fornication, Adultery, Bestiality must be avoided.


If we keep these in mind we are OK as God's Holy People so if you're not satisfied with what God's Holy Spirit and Jesus' Apostles concluded you can continue with your ten commandments no wahala!

That's not truth becos God said in his new convenant he would write his law(10commandments) in our hearts.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

No one can deny that God is referring to the 10commandments here, becos God was the one that wrote it the first time and is saying that in the new covenant he would still write it, but not on stone but in our hearts.


Apostle James also made it clear that we are to obey the entire 10commandments not just the one we feel like obeying.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.


I would be the happiest person on earth if God has abolished his 10commandments, becos I have my weakness which are contrary to God's commandments but mere wishes cannot make it true.
If you like deny it from today till eternity God cannot change.

MaxInDHouse:
It's simple God has a PEOPLE for his name and this has nothing to do with the laws of the first Covenant even though those Jews still thinks the laws (including the ten commandments) must be inculcated into the hearts of those in the New Covenant but the Apostles and God's Holy Spirit says "NO!" that's why they rounded up everything in just a speech:

For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!” Act 15:28-29

In the New Covenant God's Holy Spirit and the Apostles said the only laws that Christians should keep in mind are:

To avoid things sacrificed to idols like ~ birthdays, valentine day, christmas, new year and many that's not practiced by God's servants. We must not eat anything they present along with these things because they're doing it for demons! 1Corinthians 10:20

To abstain from blood ~ God's word condemned eating of blood {Genesis 9:4} so we must abstain from blood in any way Satan tries to present it (including blood transfusion)


To avoid animals strangled ~ meats that's not bled for the blood to come out, we mustn't eat because it's the same as eating blood!

To avoid sexual immorality ~ Homosexualism, Lesbianism, Fornication, Adultery, Bestiality must be avoided.


If we keep these in mind we are OK as God's Holy People so if you're not satisfied with what God's Holy Spirit and Jesus' Apostles concluded you can continue with your ten commandments no wahala!

That's a big lie the Apostles never said the only laws the Gentiles should obey is those you mentioned.

Are you insinuating that the Apostles advocated that the Gentiles should steal,lie, bow to other gods use the name of God in vain since they did not mention this ones?


Any reasonable person would know that those were just few examples given by the Apostles to the Gentiles but it was not limited to those ones mentioned.
If there is any doubt of the laws we should obey, subsequent verses makes it clear that we must including the Gentiles,obey the 10commandments.


Here is Apostle James.

James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.


Here is Paul.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


Stop using the Holyspirit to justify your disobedience the Holy spirit only works or cooperate with us when we are willing to obey the commandments of God.

Obey God: “And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him” (Acts 5:32). Jesus says, “If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth” (John 14:15, 16, 17). Those who are born from above have God as their Father and resemble Him in character ( 1 John 3:1–3; John 8:39, 44). Henceforth, they aspire, by the grace of Christ, to live above sin (Rom. 6:12–16) and do not yield their wills to commit sin (1 John 3:9; 5:18)

Ask yourself what is Sin?

Dtruthspeaker:
Key words (the highlight) are in there which if you paid attention to, you would remember The Laws and Instructions which cover those specific subject matter.

Secondly, on "for to make in himself of twain one new man" Do you not see this is the Merger and Absorption of The Law Unto Himself as Evidenced by The Meeting Between Himself, Moses and Elijah?

Having absorbed The Law shall He not become The Law?

And when He became The Law shall He not issue Out The Law?

And did He not clearly direct "Keep my Commandments"?

And was The Commandment not His own in Mount Horeb?

Also remember when He Came, He Said He was not going to Judge then, but are we not now awaiting His Coming where He shall now Judge?

And when He comes to Judge shall His Judgement not be based on Law? (I wonder if you even know THAT ALL JUDGEMENTS ARE ALWAYS BASED ON LAW, WITHOUT VARIATION AND WAIVER?)

Look at the Comments on His forth coming Judgements are they not based on Law? Eg Malachi 3:5,18, Chapter 4:1

See particularly the instruction in Malachi 4:4 (if you like) and you can already see that Malachi 4 is talking about Judgement Day!

You proved nothing, you just twisted Bible verses to suit your arguments.

That Bible verse is clear, what was abolished was the law of commandments contained in Ordinances, of course this is the law of Moses becos the 10commandments do not contain ordinances.

God is clear on this subject, the laws of Moses are no longer needed becos Christ has fufilled all the requirements of the law of Moses.

He would Judge based on the 10commandments and not the law of Moses.
Apostle Jame spoke on this.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.


Would God punish me for not been circumcised,offering lambs for my sin, e.t.c ?
The answer is NO.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

But would he punish me for stealing,fornicating, bowing to other gods,e.t.c the answer is big YES.
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

MaxInDHouse:
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. Act 15:14

I laugh at you.
This is not an answer.

Did the Bible say the people were JW?

Acts 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

It's ironic that the verse you quoted proved that God's 10commandments is different from the laws of Moses.

Dtruthspeaker:
As you choose to bend it like jw the way you wish it to be where you think such interpretation shall reduce your liability and culpability for disobeying them.

I have already given you The Law Full interpretation of it but you have rejected it, now therefore it is up to The Judge and The Law to decide betwixt us, Blessings or Curses as Written.

May the Curse of The Word fall greatly on he who lies and deceives such that one of us will one day come here to lament as Vctorinho in hell has done because of the evil which cometh upon the soul of such a one who speaketh leasings in The Name of The Lord!

This is a straight simple question and you cannot answer.

Are you arguing with me or the Bible or Apostles Paul?
Becos I was not the one that said Moses law has been abolished, but the Bible.


Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Do you have any evidence that is contrary to this Bible verses?

Dtruthspeaker:
These days, lot's of Shiit have been said by people who have Bibles, so... nothing new.

What matters most is what God said not man.

And God's word says the laws of Moses are no longer binding on a believers hence it is abolished.

MaxInDHouse:
Everyone on this planet is ready to tell you that his/her God is the Author of the Bible nah!
But the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has a people that's RECOGNIZABLE. So if you don't know them then you're deceiving yourself!

Show me one Bible verse that proves or give evidence of God's own people.
And I would show that they must be God's 10commandments obeying people.

MaxInDHouse:
So which group is doing the will of your own God today?

I'm not disputing that your God doesn't recognize us, i said:

WE ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, AND OUR OWN GOD RECOGNIZES US AS HIS PEOPLE!

So don't get it twisted, i'm not talking about your own God but our own!

Your own god is not the God of the Bible, becos the God of the Bible has told us that only by obeying his commandments can one be his people, is obvious your people can not be God's people becos you don't obey God's 10commandments, so you better start looking for your own god.


The evidence that you know God and God knows you is by keeping his commandments and not by feelings.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.




Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Dtruthspeaker:
Did I not tell you that there many many things you do not know about Law and the operation of Law? And it took 7 years for 7 years just to learn the laws and another 3-5 years to Practice it before A Lawyer can confidently say he is a lawyer.

And your questions beckon on me to make you a lawyer which is impossible for me to do to you.

So even after I have explained it to you, you refused to hear me and have held on to what you want to believe as is your right and I have left you to it.

Weather you are a lawyer or not, the truth and fact is that the law of Moses has been abolished.

That's what the Bible says.
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

I hope you observed the word Abolished?

One does not need to be a lawyer inorder to understand what law means.

God did not become or need a lawyer to write the laws neither does he expect us to be one or to hire one inorder to understand what he said, example the children of Israel were not lawyers but they understood well what God said.

All we need is the Holy Spirit to guide us and to compare Bible verses to understand what God is teaching.

Secondly you never explained anything.

MaxInDHouse:
There is nothing like a God without organized and orderly worshipers so if your God is real then there must be a RECOGNIZABLE group of people to the name of your God! Micah 4:5

My God is JEHOVAH and His people are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Isaiah 43:10-12

You are wrong, the creteria for knowing God's People is not organization and orderliness, if it was by that most occult group eg freemason would have qualified.

The only creteria approved by God is that of keeping his commandments.

Even the Devil knows that ,and thats why he is making war with those who keep God's commandments


Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


He Devil has no problem with those who feel they know God by how they feel or their population or their demonstration of love. His problem is with those who do God's will or obey God's commandments.




Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

From the above verse ,as shown to Apostles John in the book of revelation.

JW are not recognised as God's people in this last days.

The people recognised by God in this last days are those that keep his commandments.

Dtruthspeaker:
I did not respond to you because we had gotten to the end of your first enquiry
as per the direction of your thread, which was "the 10commandments and the laws of Moses are 2 different laws written by 2 different authors,"

And you had already admitted the Truth of your error in saying "its true, both laws were given by God and both laws"

So the other questions you asked about sin offering, circumcision are CHANGE OF POSTS and New argument, which I only patronized you, to show you that I could answer it.

But, as we say in Law, "there must be an end to arguments"and I have already finished with my presentation, so this is A Fresh Argument which I was not willing to enter with you since you have experted yourself on knowing Law and how they operate and you are never going to listen to anything I am going to say.

You are only here to put yourself on full alert to pick on anything YOU THINK is an error with which you would use to question me.

And there are many things which I am always going to say which YOU WOULD ALWAYS THINK IS AN ERROR, and which I will counter you with many other Laws you never knew were there, exactly as an ss3 student arguing about medicine with a doctor.

You do not know much but you already think you do and there is nothing anyone can do about it, ONLY YOU!



Awitness inadvertently answered your question for he showed you that Paying Tithes is still in Force


And you applauded his answer.



So you have already proven that you know the answer to the question and I know, you knew this.

So, why do you ask me this question? Because you think (again, you and your thinkings) that you could ensnare me whereas, I would answer you and you would have to ask more questions, therefore, an unending argument which is vain and I hate doing vanities.

It is not an error, both laws were given by God but both were not written by him,


If both laws were given by God for 2 different purpose and reason ,does that make them the same law?

If a law is given to prohibit over speeding, and another law is given to prescribe the punishment for offenders for over speeding. Will that not be two laws?

Now if 5years later and the Government in power feels people are not obeying the traffic rules and the government decides to change the rules or punishment for traffic offense, is it wrong to say the laws for punishment for traffic offense had been changed?

For example let's assume the punishment for breaking traffic laws was payment of a fine of 20000naria and the government decides to change the law and introduce a new punishment which includes 3years imprisonment. has the law not been changed?


From this example one can see that the government still upholds the law against overspeeding or traffic violation , but it has altered, abolished the former law that stipulates the punishment for traffic offenders while replacing it with a stricter and more severe law.

This same principle applies to God's 10commandments and the laws of Moses

The latter( law of Moses) has been altered but God's 10commandments can, I repeat never be changed.

You can see that you are wrong in saying the law of Moses was not abolished.

For the issue of tithes , they have existed for over 500years before God gave Moses the laws and ordinances.

Abraham and Jacob paid tithes.

MaxInDHouse:
If your God is not the author of confusion then PRESENT the group of people PRACTICALLY APPLYING what your God is saying.

As for my own God i PRESENT the Organization of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

What you present does not count, but what God commands.

God only recognises any Organization that keeps his commandments.



2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


His commandments are the only evidence of those he recognise or that love him.

The commandments of God are the only form of love that is acceptable to God.
Cults,Atheist, false prophets and churches also show love and charity they have all the elements of love, but they fail to keep God's commandments hence they have not worthy in God's sight.

MaxInDHouse:
Your problem is judging from your PERSONAL opinion forgetting that there are billions of people around you, each with his personal opinion on what we read in the Bible.
If you're saying others are wrong because of what you concluded after reading the Bible billions out there are also saying the same thing. So where is the FRUIT of your personal opinion?

I do not judge from my personal opinion.

You are wrong, the Bible is not to be Interpreted by individual or one's personal opinion rather by comparing verses with verses.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

I made sure I applied Bible principles that says all verses are given by the Holy Spirit for teaching,correction and edification and hence must be considered in all teachings.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Secondly one presenting or trying to understand a doctrine must read and consider all the Bible verses that are related to the subject or doctrine no verses should be ignored.


Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:



And if you are really interested in pleasing God and not man or your sect, you would consider this teachings on this thread and diligently search the word of God with a pure heart to know the truth.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

God is not the author of confusion, and he cannot contradict himself.

awitness41:
The Fruit of his "opinion" is this, Max.

Those who Love God and Jesus, and others as themself (i.e. those who obey the Two Most Important Commandments), stop willfully sinning, just like Jesus Christ said ("sin no more" ).

It's not that True Christians don't slip unwillfully in their thoughts; but because they have the Holy Spirit operating in them, they rebuke those thoughts instantly in the name of Jesus Christ and Walk on.

And even less often, True Christians might even unwillfully slip in a word here or there. If so, they are convicted quickly by the Holy Spirit, and apologize to God for it and are forgiven through Jesus Christ, and Walk on.

And even less often than that, True Christians might (rarely) unwillfully slip in a behavior. If so, they are convicted right away by the Holy Spirit, apologize for it, and again, Walk on in forgiveness through Jesus Christ.

It's a Growing Walk, of course.
But as a True Christian keeps Walking with God and Jesus, their thoughts, words, and behaviors will increasingly conform to what Christ wants us to be, and they will stumble less and less often.

In this way, they end up treating others as they want to be treated, not wanting to be sinned against themself.
And they could not possibly do that without the Holy Spirit operating in them.
After all, NO ONE will simply "be good" for long without Loving God and Jesus - and Their Word - more than themselves.
And that includes not sinning anymore (for which knowledge of the Righteous Moral Law of God is a must).

I told you before, Max, if you can declare the JWs to be willful-sin free, then you'll have something to boast about.

If not, then one's "fruits" of having "some good feelings toward their 'friends'" doesn't mean too much, because even the devil acts like an angel of light sometimes, and even atheists do "some good things" and might even be against war; and even atheists have social clubs where they interact with each other too.

As I also told you before, Max, the JWs can't even define the word "sin", because they claim God's Ten Commandment Law isn't valid.
Yet sin is "the transgression of the Law" according the the Bible... and it wasn't talking about "Mosaic" Law, either.

As you always seem to fight the Truth by claiming your group is somehow more "righteous" than other groups, or insinuating other's groups are not as "righteous" as yours, I will again remind you that Catholics (the beast church of prophecy) are a much larger group (many times larger) then the JWs, and even they don't support abortion (which is a good thing). Is the Pope going to get to Heaven ? No, because he keeps wrong things in his life too.

Many can tell you the Bible Verses to support the following:
It's not what we do right that gets us to Heaven.
It's when we willfully keep wrong (i.e. sin) that keeps us out of Heaven.
Jesus says so Himself.

So if the JWs don't preach to their "group" to refrain from willful sin - ALL willful sin - then many of them aren't going to go to the final destination they wish.
But how can they do that if the JWs continue to pretend that God's Ten Commandments aren't valid, and thus can't even define what "sin" is ?

Please know - I don't write this for your sake, Max, because I know you won't accept it.
I only write this for the sake of others who read this thread.
Those who Love God will get something out of it.

I still Love you, Max.
But your group is no more "righteous" than any other group claiming "Christian".

My thanks to BlueAgent who has done a very good job with this thread.
He preaches the Truth, and it is an honor to know him... a new Brother to me (as I also consider Splinz).

Thank you bro For your excellent response to Mr Max and your compliments, its an honour knowing you.

Dtruthspeaker:
I am certain you remember This Law "not a jot of My Word"

Because Law can be read does not mean everyone can read it.

No one takes a Doctors Notes to the man on the street to interpret it for them.

It's funny how you have failed or ignored to answer my question.

Let me repeat it, is the laws of Moses still valid or in effect?

MaxInDHouse:
My friend, there's no need for this SUPER STORY.
Jesus said "by their FRUITS you will know them" {Matthew 7:16} so since you and your fellow believers in your church knows how to apply what Jesus said @ Matthew 22:36-40, go and apply it PRACTICALLY, it's not through some fruitless arguments that people will know how good you people are in applying God's word in a perfect sense.
NO!
Jesus said honest hearted and sincere observers from all the earth will notice your group as the best globally! Matthew 5:13-16

So leave the STORY and get to WORK people will see the benefits of the FAITH of your Church through the fine WORKS of your Church! James 2:18-26

Let me tell you what you don't know.


It's self evident in Matthew 7:12-21

That only by keeping the commandments to love God and ones neighbour, which are a summary of the 10commandments can one bear fruits.


It's also self evident that to love ones neighbour and God is to keep the 10commandments.


Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

JW feel that they bear fruits ,while before God they are bearing no fruits.

You cannot bear fruits while disobeying the commandments of God.
JW are only obeying the commandments of men not God.




Note this Bible verses.


Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

MaxInDHouse:
My friend, there's no need for this SUPER STORY.
Jesus said "by their FRUITS you will know them" {Matthew 7:16} so since you and your fellow believers in your church knows how to apply what Jesus said @ Matthew 22:36-40, go and apply it PRACTICALLY, it's not through some fruitless arguments that people will know how good you people are in applying God's word in a perfect sense.
NO!
Jesus said honest hearted and sincere observers from all the earth will notice your group as the best globally! Matthew 5:13-16

So leave the STORY and get to WORK people will see the benefits of the FAITH of your Church through the fine WORKS of your Church! James 2:18-26

You keep repeating Matthew 7:16 as evidence of your sect been God's People but the irony is that ,that same verse and chapters before that, which you craftly ignored commanded us to keep the law.

How ironic.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Would you quote and accept Matthew 7:20 while rejecting Matthew 7:12?��

MaxInDHouse:
If you believe they are not different it's OK so go out there and apply what you know in a PRACTICAL SENSE, the result is what God wants not your claim! Matthew 7:16-18; James 2:18-26

My global family teaches that all the LAWS God sent Moses to PRESENT to the Israelites including everything all the prophets taught are under two laws {Matthew 22:36-40} so we know how to apply it practically within our global family of peace loving worshipers! Isaiah 2:2-4

So please go and practice what you know!

How can the laws be the same when Jesus told us to keep the 10commandments inorder to earn eternal life but never asked us to do circumcision or any of the laws Moses commanded?


Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

MaxInDHouse:
If you believe they are not different it's OK so go out there and apply what you know in a PRACTICAL SENSE, the result is what God wants not your claim! Matthew 7:16-18; James 2:18-26

My global family teaches that all the LAWS God sent Moses to PRESENT to the Israelites including everything all the prophets taught are under two laws {Matthew 22:36-40} so we know how to apply it practically within our global family of peace loving worshipers! Isaiah 2:2-4

So please go and practice what you know!

It's funny how you quoted Matthew 22:36-40.
Yet you do not know what it means to love God and your neighbours.


Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Here is what is means to love God and your neighbours.


Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


To love God and your neighbours is to obey the 10commandments and not just claiming and showing brotherly love of a sect and teaching false doctrines contrary to God's words.

The only evidence that we love God and our neighbours is to obey his 10commandments.


John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

MaxInDHouse:
Please what exactly are you saying?

To me and my entire global family there's no difference in the laws God gave Moses to pass to the Israelites. But if think there's any difference it's OK go and sort it out with your fellow believers and make the best use of it!

If there are no difference from God's laws or commandments and that of Moses, then why is adueltry, stealing,bowing to other gods,killing,are all still sin or offensive to God ,while Circumcision, offering of sacrifice for sin,stoning to death for sin, and other requirements of the law of Moses are no longer expected from us?


1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

MaxInDHouse:
Please what exactly are you saying?

To me and my entire global family there's no difference in the laws God gave Moses to pass to the Israelites. But if think there's any difference it's OK go and sort it out with your fellow believers and make the best use of it!

Every honest person knows that they are different as proven in God's word and this thread.

You claiming that they are not different would not make it not to be different neither would God hold you blameless for denying his word.

awitness41:
To add to that a little bit, if I may... regarding which Law was "nailed to the Cross":

First of all, if we make up a version of Paul who disagrees with Jesus, then Who is right, and Who should we agree with ?

Let's decide, by referring to the following Verses:

Colossians 2:16 (NKJV):
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

God's 10 Commandments (founded on His Two Most Important Commandments): Are ANY of these against us ?

No, of course not. Nor are any contrary to us.

Paul is obviously talking about the Old Covenant Jewish Law for priests, feasts, sacrifices, and rituals (like circumcision).

Furthermore, what was Paul referring to when he went on to say in Colossians 2:16 (NKJV):
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths"

Which sabbaths ?
The Weekly Sabbath of the Fourth Commandment of God's Ten Commandments ?
Or the Annual Sabbaths, such as they had during the feasts (or "festivals" ), as listed in Leviticus 23... from Moses' Law ?

Obvious again...

Since God's 10 Commandments are NOT against anyone, these were NOT "nailed to the cross".

Only Old Coventant Jewish (Mosaic) Law was... regarding priests, feast, sacrifces, and rituals (like circumcision).

When Paul says, "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths", it is apparent that it can't be the Weekly Sabbath of the Fourth Commandment, for none of the 10 Commandments is against us; but only the annual sabbaths that were certain days of the feasts (festivals).

But of course, people who wish to keep Sunday read these texts to support what they want.

But to do so, they manufacture a "version of" Paul who disagrees with Jesus.

Perfect.
Thanks for your contribution.

awitness41:
Not paying tithes is also breaking God's 8th Commandment of "you shall not steal".

From Malachi 3:8-10 (NKJV):
8
“Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings.
9
You are cursed with a curse,
For you have robbed Me,
Even this whole nation.
10
Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.

If we don't tithe, we are stealing from God.
Thus, not tithing is breaking God's 8th Commandment.
Jesus also says tithing should be done.
Why ?
Because Jesus wants us to keep the Ten Commandments, which "hang on" (are founded on) the Two Most Important Commandments to Love God and others.

Excellent response bro.
Thanks.